1) In late 1973 or even in 1972, I spoke in the college with a kid about the Stones.

The boy seemed to disdain the Stones but praised Mick Taylor. He said: "MT will soon leave this band, he had said it, he is more interessed to play with... (I cannot remember the name), his musical ambition are higher than the Stones".

I didn't believe it a that time and eventually, as we all know, MT left by December 1974. So far,

I still have no explanation on the boy's clue. Did MT has made a semi official comment when he was still with the Stones about his future move? This 17 years old kid was very sure about what he was saying, maybe he was just bluffing with a lot of flair, but anyone here has another option?

Is that connected to Rose Taylor, MT's ex wife, who reportedly tried to convince him to leave the band?


2) There is a rumour abour MT coming backstage with his guitar some hours before the Stones started their first American concert in 1975. He is said to have tried to meet the Stones to convice them to take him back in the band, arguing he had changed his mind. Do you know this story?

Not sure about the second one, but that would be rather hysterical if it were true. I hope they laughed in his face! Long-live Ronnie Wood.

Never heard about the 2nd story. Probably nonsense. If this rumour really happend somebody from the Stones-camp would have mentioned in the past 30 years, would you agree?

Not sure about that rumor but at this point in time who cares he left them 30 years ago, and he will never be back. Its a pipe dream to think that MT. will ever come back to the Stones.

If you'd read my thread titled, (close under this one presently) "Ladies & Gentlemen, The True "ROLLING STONES" most of the answers to your questions are there.

MT knew he was with the STONES for a short time, they wanted Ronnie all along, but waited till the FACES had nearly ran their course as a band. During which time the STONE'S, "ever the genius of publicity" acted out searching for a replacement. Just like in professional theatre, auditions have to be held because of protocol, while the role has already been cast.

MT started early on, blabbing and dropping hints that he was not satisfied, "musically," ect., with the STONES, so when the time came, he could lamely, bow out,... somewhat gracefully.
\
Cheers

Demon.

I read before your post, surely interesting, specially about MT was "fill in"

Yet, it did'nt exactly answer to my thread

1) Did MT make a sort of "coming out" during his Stones' time (not after)?
2) Did he try to rejoin after his Stone's time?

Rickster, I agree it is a bit like moving dust... But IORR is 80% about moving dust from the past, from the grave, should I say...

1. MT made the best of the situation and drew a following while he was with the STONES, "coming out, if you will.

2. The only thing I read about "after he left the band," (which was prompted by his "stupid wife" and $$$, and pride because MT and her felt he should get a credit for songs he wrote, Keith says this is not true, MT never wrote anything for the STONES) was that "MT cried like a baby" after he realized there was no going back, or any chance of the Stones "ever" taking him back.

MT put the boys in a bind by leaving early, because they were working on an album, (big mistake) he could have had a bit more time with the STONES if his pride and greed hadn't gotten in the way. That's why Ronnie was still with the FACES when he "officially" joined the band in 1975, Ronnie was wrapping up loose ends with the FACES too. You Go RONNIE!

Most recently, MT was at a LICKS show and he was not asked to play with them either.

Mick Taylor may have been guilty of all the things mentioned above for all i know but one thing i know for sure is he has been terribly missed by many of the Stones fans.
Not a month goes by without a thread relating to Mick appearing asking is there any chance of him reuniting with the Stones and also many posts relating Ronnie's crap etc.If Mick wasn't missed his name wouldn't keep cropping up all the time particuarly after thirty years. He must have made quite an impression in five short years.
It may be a little unkind to Ronnie to call him crap because the rest of the Stones are also crap if compared with what they were like at their peak.
I liked Ronnie in the Faces but i've never been convinced by him in the Stones.He brought personality to the group more than musical ability - Taylor was a different proposition altogether.

The big PICTURE here is: THE ROLLING STONES "DON'T" MISS MICK TAYLOR, or else he'd still be with them, SEE?

Mick Taylor a fill in? Great NONSENSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

KEITH: "It was so obvious to me that Ronnie should be in the STONES. The only reason he didn't join earlier is that nobody wanted to be the reason for the FACES breaking up."...In the "auditions" Keith had two drawbacks where Wayne Perkins was concerned: 1. "He was an American and 2. Keith saw the Stones as a London Rock band AND PERKINS PLAYED TOO MUCH LIKE MICK TAYLOR." (KR page, 231)

It astonds me that you MT types always "over-rule Keith" on the subject of Taylor. Believe me, Keith has a lot more say in the band, (even back then) then many of you think he has had.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-01-01 21:20 by Demon.

1) Did MT make a sort of "coming out" during his Stones' time (not after)?
2) Did he try to rejoin after his Stone's time?


1) No
2) No

I think it's just a matter of taste. I believe Mick Tayor was in a competely different league to Ronnie even when Ronnie was at his peak..
As far as Keith is concerned he has got some pride - he's not going to go around saying the Stones were better when Taylor was in the group.
If you listen to everthing Keith said you would be believing Steelwheels was as good as Exile(which was what he was quoted as saying at the time of its release).
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion of course. I just feel it is glaringly obvious that Mick Taylor was in a different league to Ronnie and he still is - i saw him recently.

Honey, IF THE STONES WANTED TAYLOR, he'd still be with them,...get it? I'm just pointing out "facts" to those people that are still living in a fog!

The Stones are in their twilight years anyway. Ronnie fits in well with them socially and they are never going to recapture their youth anyway.
Maybe we should really be looking at what unfulfilled potential Ronnie may have had that was stunted when he joined the Stones. Ronnie was certainly more convincing in the Faces when he was the star in his own right and not having to back up Keith.
In a sense Ronnie may have forefeitted his potential by joining the Stones.

Ron, Ron would disagree witcha, I'm sure.

Demon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Honey, IF THE STONES WANTED TAYLOR, he'd still be
> with them,...get it? I'm just pointing out
> "facts" to those people that are still living in a
> fog!

Good 'facts' you mention there Demon.......... You forgot the one and only fact about this matter: Taylor left the band, so that's why he's not still with them. If he would not have left, he would never have been kicked out and Ronnie would never have been able to join. I think the only fog here is in your head!

Ok then, so what would have happened if Ronnie Wood had joined the Stones in 1969?

The plain answer is quite simple. He'd have been considered an absolute laughing stock when compared to other guitarists of the time and the Stones would not have been taken seriously. Remember, music fans at the time were listening to Clapton, Hendrix, Beck, Howe, Ackerman, Gilmore, Santana, Gallagher etc., while audiences at gigs were actually LISTENING to the music being played. As a consequence, bands had to be creative, and bring musicianship to the fore.

The Stones needed someone of Mick Taylor's outstanding talent to fulfull that role, which he did brilliantly. They were obviously miffed when he left, knowing full well that in terms of musicianship and style, he was irreplacable. Keith acted in the way like he always does when things don't go his way. Like a spoilt brat who'd lost his sweets. Tough guy, my arse! In Manchester the other year, four kids invaded the stage and he panicked!

Let Liam Gallgher sort him out.

>Taylor left the band, so that's why he's not still with them. If he would not have left, he would never have been kicked out and Ronnie would never have been able to join.


Completely disagree with you there. It's not merely a matter of Taylor choosing to stick around or not. Although Taylor made substantial contributions in his stint with the Stones, bringing in new perspectives and sounds than from the Jones era, he was always a bit removed from the group. In my personal opinion, nothing more, I've never looked upon Taylor as a true Stone, moreso a glorified, although certainly gifted, session player. Whatever Taylor's contribution may have been, he neither connected at a personal level across the entire group nor bought into the approach Jagger/Richards have taken in presenting their material live. I've also read on several occasions that Wood was their original choice, but were unable to procure him due to his work with the Faces.

Although not as technically proficient as Taylor, Wood brought in cohesiveness and loyalty, not to mention a jagged sound that well complements Richard's playing style. And let us not forget the brilliant work he did with the Faces.
While I would agree Wood has brought less to the studio works than Jones and to a slightly lesser degree Taylor, one should not degrade or underestimate his contributions, especially his incredible stage presence and rough-hewn sound that more closely coalesced with the evolution of popular rock that followed (heavy metal followed by the Seattle grunge sound). And Wood's inumerable live guest appearances and attention that he has received for his art have brought in much additional publicity for the group.


Moreover, the group hardly self-destructed after Taylor left. Two of their best selling albums are Tattoo You and Some Girls, not to mention that Voodoo Lounge unquestionably introduced a whole new generation, including myself, to the Stones. And even if Ronnie couldn't play a note, he is a dynamite stage performer (anybody see him with Rod Stewart at Royal Albert Hall?), something the music industry has drifted toward in the past decades (thank Madonna and those ridiculous boy bands, I guess).

In listening to various Stones material, one can certainly hear the legacy of Jones, Taylor, and Wood. While we each have our favorites, I think it is unfair to go as far as to generalize in implying Taylor was a musical giant whereas in comparison Wood is some sort of musical hack or the other way around. I find the incendiary sounds of Voodoo Lounge just as appealing as anything on Sticky Fingers or the seminal Beggars Banquet.

And that is really the great appeal of the Rolling Stones: they have a core sound, per se, but have run it in all sorts of directions, always guarding, however, against being associated with any particular genre or passing trend. In that endeavor they have (largely) stayed in the mainstream and reached out to all sorts of listeners. One man's Sticky Fingers is another's Aftermath or even, God forbid (gasp), Dirty Work. Point in case, I much more frequently spin Undercover than Exile. I know, shoot me now!

Instead of bashing ourselves over the head anymore, here's some additional questions for the discussion. Why don't they let Ronnie sing a number on the album, or do a vocal duet with Keith? They both have that ailing coffee grinder sound, so why not? As the past 4 tours have been about all the same, might be cool if they get Ronnie and Keith to sing more backup and let Ronnie sing one number rather than giving Keith two. As Keith seems to forget half the words and Ronnie (depending on the night) misses half the notes, might be good for each other. Besides, I'd love to hear Ronnie and Keith tear into Josephine or a new, comparatively raw, disheveled number.

Remember the circumstances Taylor was hired under: The band was coming off of Beggars Banquet and Polishing up Let It Bleed before starting to tour.

There were no auditions in 1969......they needed a guitar player to go on the road. I think it was Stu who mentioned Taylor and brought him by the studio and he got the job right off. The band did not have time to screw around, they were broke, they just threw Brian out and they needed to hit the stage to make money.

Ironic that they had just completed 2 of the best rock albums ever made (without Taylor)during such a whacked out time.

MT was a really good player, lucky enough to run his blues scales over some really great songs that were written by MJ/KR. I think it is fair to say after 30 years that he really has no skill at song writing. His sound was totally 70's and I don't think the band would have survived the 70's with him. Honestly, can you hear MT trying to play on songs like " Miss You, Beast Of Burden, Shattered, BTMMR, Respectable ? For all his finese, he never displayed the ability and the AGILITY that Ronnie Wood has to add a little grit and swing o a song. MT had a smooth sound and played one long solo after another on tour. Ronnie always had a tough guitar sound, slightly ragged, loose at times, very tight at times........Taylor never had that. By the album IORR you KNEW that one of his blues scales solo would be played very beautifully and smooth and inserted into the song.

All I know is this:

Mick Taylor has woken up everyday for 30 years and said "what did I do?"
Ronnie Wood has woken up everyday for 30 years and said "man am I lucky"
Keith has woken up everyday for 30 years and said "Holy shit, I'm still alive"

Milo, NYC
I walked for miles, my feet are hurtin'

If POTted Shrimp could read, he'd know I said MT walked out leaving the boys in a bind and that he walked out because he knew his days were numbered, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.

I disagree with Milo. Just because Taylor's biggest virtue was lead guitar doesn't mean he could not have played Some Girls type rhythm. There are plenty of songs in his time with the Stones when he stood back a little.
Some Girls may not have been possible without Ronnie that is true but there is precious little else Ronnie had done of great note.
Emotional Rescue was unremarkable and Tattoo You was and outtakes album highlighting a number of guitarists including Mick Taylor.
In retrospect it's the Jones and the Taylor eras the fans love the most.

Demon, your analyse is interesting, but we need some more explanations :

1) But hat would happened if MT had stayed? They would have fired him?

2) Did MT know for the first he was just hired for a while ? Was it something explicite for everybody, ie for the Stones as well for MT?

3) Did RW had a clue of this story, which means that he had in mind he had a "reserved job" wihtin the Stones, even during Mick Taylor's time?

Your thesis sounds pretty cynical - I have some doubt than the Stones were able to act in such a "Florentine" way, floating in the same time (early seventies) in the spirit of hard drugs.

Milo Yammbag Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> All I know is this:
>
> Mick Taylor has woken up everyday for 30 years
> and said "what did I do?"
> Ronnie Wood has woken up everyday for 30 years
> and said "man am I lucky"
> Keith has woken up everyday for 30 years and
> said "Holy shit, I'm still alive"

Nice one!

Agree too, nice sum up.

Logie, I do disagree with you. In the same time period that we are discussing Ronnie was playing with some of the most respected rockers. He would not have been a laughing stock. He was important in an incarnation of Jeff Beck's group, and of course the ONLY guitar player for The Faces, a group whose importance and relevance cannot be denied no matter what it's members are doing today.Ron and Rod Stewart together created RNR standards on Rod's early solo releases.Ronnie may be seen as a comedic foil at times, but he has never been a laughing stock.

And Edward, while I agree with you that MT was around for EOMS and SF, two great pieces of work, those are the only TWO GREAT MT studio albums. IORR and GHS do not stand out as shining beacons in the Stones library of music. They are good, but so are Undercover and VL. Live , no doubt MT was a better guitar soloist than Ron, but Keith and he were drifing apart musically. Listen to the last tour of MT, the group is playing along while the lead guitarist stands to the side laying down vibrato rich solo after solo; for some reason by this time MT was unable or unwilling to "step back" as you put it.

Certainly as someone else points out, the last 30 years have seemed to disprove MT's ability to write music, or at least be prolific at it. His guitar virtuosity has never been enough for him to fill more than large bars, let alone theaters, arenas or stadiums. Without his history as a former Stone, it is questionable if he would selll the tickets that he does. While commerciality may not equal virtousity, as I am sure some will point out, it is the ability to sell that has given us the Stones for several decades. He was definitely the right man for the right time. But as I said in another thread, his success, his charisma , was a thing of symbiosis. He is remembered because he worked with Mick and Keith when they were at their peak. It all worked because at their peak, the group worked with the right engeineers and producers, Keith hung with and "borrowed" from Parsons and Cooder, Nicky Hopkins was there, and on and on. The right conditions in the right time to thrust him into the spotlight.

Nothing he has done since leaving has lived up to the expectations. And while I am not a BillBoard bean counter, I would bet that Ron's solo efforts have outsold anything solo MT has put out. I also feel that though it is a matter of opinion, the handful of Ronnie's solo stuff in the last 30 years is better listening than Taylor's minimal amount of released material



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2005-01-02 12:51 by kahoosier.

I can never figure out why people bash Ron Wood. I think he plays just fine with Keith, and he looks the part of a Stone all the way. On stage he plays just enough to add to the mix I want to hear from the Stones.

I personally did not like the way Mick Taylor played on stage. His improvisations were always on the high end of the note scale, which I feel did not convey the Stones sound. His technically perfect flowing notes were a poor fit for the raw riffs coming from the other side of the stage.

One exception for Taylor is the official studio version of IORR, which is one of the very few songs that I would love to see the Stones try to reproduce on Stage.
I would be very interested to know from the board experts the guitar breakdown between MT and KR on this studio song.

Joker,

!. Yes
2. Soon after, Yes, MT thought he could change their minds, covering up the fact with "I want to move on, do my own thing," mixed with greed, pride, stupid wife, etc.
3. Yes

I believed I touched on all these questions throughout this thread, no need to repeat.

RW was importante between 78/82. The only relevant studio work was Some Girls. Since 82 I dont think he brought much to the Stones. At least in a musical way. Till 82 we had a good guitar work between Keith and Ronnie, mainly in live concerts. But since then we dont have neither the ancient art of weaving neither a lead guitar in the band. So, for me, altough MT was only 5 years with the band is contribution was much more relevant than what RW has done.

Clapton should have joined in 1975.