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HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: Bruce ()
Date: November 10, 2012 18:48

Hi all

I will be one of the many of you travelling to the London gigs later this month. Being in the London area, I would love to visit Cheltenham Cemetery, where I would like to pay tribute to Brian Jones.

Has anyone of you been there? How can I get there from Central London? Your help is much appreciated.

See you in Londontown

Bruce

Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: Edith Grove ()
Date: November 10, 2012 21:25

Here's your link on Google maps, just need to plot your directions.

[maps.google.com]


Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: mickijaggeroo ()
Date: November 10, 2012 21:31

[www.stonesvikings.com]

Vilhelm
Nordic Stones Vikings

Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: Deltics ()
Date: November 10, 2012 23:10

You don't say how you're planning to travel, but if you're going by car you need to navigate to the A40 which is the main road going west from London. Look for signs for High Wycombe, Oxford, Burford and Cheltenham.
If you've got a UK enabled satnav (GPS), the post code is GL52 5JT.
Cheltenham is almost 100 miles (approx. 161 km) from London.
The following links might help.

[maps.google.com]

Bouncers Lane
Cheltenham GL52 5JT
01242 244245

[www.cheltenham.gov.uk]


"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: johnnyguitar ()
Date: November 11, 2012 01:02

Quote
mickijaggeroo
[www.stonesvikings.com]

Paying respects to deceased musicians is a fine idea. But the people in these photos are molesting his grave, hands everywhere, making a carnival of it. Looks disrespectful, and rather odd.
In my opinion we should let the dead rest in peace.

Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: RollingGnome ()
Date: November 11, 2012 02:33

Quote
johnnyguitar
In my opinion we should let the dead rest in peace.

That's your opinion and here is mine
I think brian would have enjoyed visitors to his grave and people remembering him. Bring him some flowers or a gift and enjoy your visit.

Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: November 11, 2012 02:44

I have just received word from Brian. He has spoken to me from the great beyond. He says ....

" .... Get your dirty, stinking hands off of my stone!"

Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: November 11, 2012 02:50

Here in America, we know how to deal with idiot tourists. These people are lucky they didn't get shot.






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-11 02:51 by tatters.

Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: johnnyguitar ()
Date: November 11, 2012 03:14

Quote
RollingGnome
Quote
johnnyguitar
In my opinion we should let the dead rest in peace.

That's your opinion and here is mine
I think brian would have enjoyed visitors to his grave and people remembering him. Bring him some flowers or a gift and enjoy your visit.

ROllingGnome you might be correct to say Brian would enjoy random visitors from people he didn't know (although we don't know this for sure). He would certainly enjoy being remembered... But there is a big difference between acting respectfully and being a deluded fan. The people in Mickijageroos link are posing for photos while they molest the tombstone. Who needs to pose for photos while feeling up his tombstone? Incredibly weird behaviour. And it makes me uncomfortable to be a fan when I see things like that.

Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: tatters ()
Date: November 11, 2012 03:21

I once saw a guy at Arlington step over the chain and start taking pictures while standing directly on top of president Kennedy's grave. Even when the security guard told him that the chain was there for a reason, the guy acted like he didn't know what the big deal was. Unbelievable.



Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: Horseswild ()
Date: November 11, 2012 03:35

Thanks guys you reminded me to go to my Grandparents gravesite and take a few pics and hang it up on the wall by the family photos !!
Go there by all means, take it all in ,be respectful , but to have a group shot all holding the Gravestone. Come on . The only things missing were the beers !!

Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: stonesnow ()
Date: November 11, 2012 03:52

Can't see the big judgmental moral fuss people are making over the tourists touching ["molesting"?!] the gravestone--it's the head stone, not the dead Stone. Don't see the necrophilia analogy there.

Regarding the Arlington reference, why were those tourists lucky they didn't get shot? They're sitting behind the fenced-off area. Don't see the analogy the poster was trying to make between Arlington National cemetery and the one in Cheltenham UK where Brian is buried. Is Brian's grave a sacred national monument? Is it fenced off? Does it have soldiers guarding it 24-7 3-6-5? No, so chill. At least they weren't sitting there drinking and drugging and spraying graffiti over the headstone like they do to Morrison's grave in Paris.

They were just wanting to feel a connection, that's all. I'm sure no disrespect was intended, and they obviously left the grave site as neat and intact as they found it. "Feeling up his tombstone"--incredibly weird analogy.

Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: Edith Grove ()
Date: November 11, 2012 04:08

It's always been my understanding that it is disrespectful to walk over someone's grave.
The actual spot where a person is buried is "sacred" ground in my opinion, and should be respected as much as possible.

I do not see a problem with standing behind a gravesite and laying one's hand on the stone, or to lay flowers, etc. in front of the stone or around the grave in a respectful manner.

It is also my opinion that it would not be disrespectful to post such pictures for all to see, who cannot be there to pay respect to the person who is no longer with us.


Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: stonesnow ()
Date: November 11, 2012 04:14

Exactly. It looks as though folks in that photo are quite moved by their visit, and there is nothing disrespectful in their posings. It appears as though they are touching Brian himself through the headstone, resting supportive hands on his departed shoulders.

Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: johnnyguitar ()
Date: November 11, 2012 04:17

Quote
stonesnow
Can't see the big judgmental moral fuss people are making over the tourists touching ["molesting"?!] the gravestone--it's the head stone, not the dead Stone. Don't see the necrophilia analogy there.

Regarding the Arlington reference, why were those tourists lucky they didn't get shot? They're sitting behind the fenced-off area. Don't see the analogy the poster was trying to make between Arlington National cemetery and the one in Cheltenham UK where Brian is buried. Is Brian's grave a sacred national monument? Is it fenced off? Does it have soldiers guarding it 24-7 3-6-5? No, so chill. At least they weren't sitting there drinking and drugging and spraying graffiti over the headstone like they do to Morrison's grave in Paris.

They were just wanting to feel a connection, that's all. I'm sure no disrespect was intended, and they obviously left the grave site as neat and intact as they found it. "Feeling up his tombstone"--incredibly weird analogy.

Stonesnow are you friends with them? Don't let it cloud your better judgement.
I think you will find the weirdness is in the photos.
What's with all the group photos of them molesting the tombstones?
It is a goddamn tombstone.
Very odd behaviour. At best, I would say they are deluded fans. At worst, they might be creepy and self-aggrandising (for posting it on the internet).
Just lay some flowers and pay your respects please.
Sometimes I just shake my head at what other fans think they are entitled to.

Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: johnnyguitar ()
Date: November 11, 2012 04:19

Quote
stonesnow
Exactly. It looks as though folks in that photo are quite moved by their visit, and there is nothing disrespectful in their posings. It appears as though they are touching Brian himself through the headstone, resting supportive hands on his departed shoulders.

Sorry but this takes the cake!!!
We are all fans but can we please get some perspective on it?

Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: stonesnow ()
Date: November 11, 2012 04:36

Quote
johnnyguitar
Quote
stonesnow
Exactly. It looks as though folks in that photo are quite moved by their visit, and there is nothing disrespectful in their posings. It appears as though they are touching Brian himself through the headstone, resting supportive hands on his departed shoulders.

Sorry but this takes the cake!!!
We are all fans but can we please get some perspective on it?

Well, if it's perspective you want....




Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: Edith Grove ()
Date: November 11, 2012 05:02

Quote
johnnyguitar
Quote
stonesnow
Exactly. It looks as though folks in that photo are quite moved by their visit, and there is nothing disrespectful in their posings. It appears as though they are touching Brian himself through the headstone, resting supportive hands on his departed shoulders.

Sorry but this takes the cake!!!
We are all fans but can we please get some perspective on it?

The perspective is that not all of us have the means, or are old enough to share in the memory of Brian, and would like to have some connection to his existence.


Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: RollingGnome ()
Date: November 11, 2012 05:12

I've been to Hendrix's grave the grass was worn completely off where he lays and booze bottles were all over, someone told me the grass was dead because people pour booze on it...that's not what I'm talking about...to say leave the dead to rest in peace and never visit or bring flowers just seems like the wrong thing to do too...visit bring flowers sing a song...be good.

Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: 2000 LYFH ()
Date: November 11, 2012 05:12

Quote
Edith Grove
It's always been my understanding that it is disrespectful to walk over someone's grave.
The actual spot where a person is buried is "sacred" ground in my opinion, and should be respected as much as possible.

I do not see a problem with standing behind a gravesite and laying one's hand on the stone, or to lay flowers, etc. in front of the stone or around the grave in a respectful manner.

It is also my opinion that it would not be disrespectful to post such pictures for all to see, who cannot be there to pay respect to the person who is no longer with us.

I went to Westwood Village Memorial Park Cemetery in LA around 1994 where many famous people are buried (see link) and I'm just walking around and I stop someone who works there and ask - is it all right to view the grave stones? He tells me sure, thousands come to see the grave sites each year and oh by the way, you are standing directly over Frank Zappa's grave (which was un-marked)!eye popping smiley

[www.seeing-stars.com]

Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: stonesnow ()
Date: November 11, 2012 05:16

Quote
2000 LYFH
Quote
Edith Grove
It's always been my understanding that it is disrespectful to walk over someone's grave.
The actual spot where a person is buried is "sacred" ground in my opinion, and should be respected as much as possible.

I do not see a problem with standing behind a gravesite and laying one's hand on the stone, or to lay flowers, etc. in front of the stone or around the grave in a respectful manner.

It is also my opinion that it would not be disrespectful to post such pictures for all to see, who cannot be there to pay respect to the person who is no longer with us.

I went to Westwood Village Memorial Park Cemetery in LA around 1994 where many famous people are buried (see link) and I'm just walking around and I stop someone who works there and ask - is it all right to view the grave stones? He tells me sure, thousands come to see the grave sites each year and oh by the way, you are standing directly over Frank Zappa's grave (which was un-marked)!eye popping smiley

[www.seeing-stars.com]

Perhaps Frank thought of grave stones as bourgeois--what would you expect from a guy who names his son Dweezil?

Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: stonesnow ()
Date: November 11, 2012 05:21

Quote
RollingGnome
I've been to Hendrix's grave the grass was worn completely off where he lays and booze bottles were all over, someone told me the grass was dead because people pour booze on it...that's not what I'm talking about...to say leave the dead to rest in peace and never visit or bring flowers just seems like the wrong thing to do too...visit bring flowers sing a song...be good.

Yes, but for organic tissue, alcohol is a preservative. They're keeping Jimi in pristine condition by pouring those 'embalming fluids' over his grave. Don't worry about the grass, think of his grave site as a 'specimen jar'.

Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: Edith Grove ()
Date: November 11, 2012 05:23

Gram parson's site:

I spent about 15 minutes cleaning the dead grass off his marker before I could take this picture:




Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: Edith Grove ()
Date: November 11, 2012 05:25

Quote
stonesnow
think of his grave site as a 'specimen jar'.

That's kinda f*cked up, dude.


Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: 2000 LYFH ()
Date: November 11, 2012 05:33

Quote
stonesnow
Can't see the big judgmental moral fuss people are making over the tourists touching ["molesting"?!] the gravestone--it's the head stone, not the dead Stone. Don't see the necrophilia analogy there.

Regarding the Arlington reference, why were those tourists lucky they didn't get shot? They're sitting behind the fenced-off area. Don't see the analogy the poster was trying to make between Arlington National cemetery and the one in Cheltenham UK where Brian is buried. Is Brian's grave a sacred national monument? Is it fenced off? Does it have soldiers guarding it 24-7 3-6-5? No, so chill. At least they weren't sitting there drinking and drugging and spraying graffiti over the headstone like they do to Morrison's grave in Paris.

They were just wanting to feel a connection, that's all. I'm sure no disrespect was intended, and they obviously left the grave site as neat and intact as they found it. "Feeling up his tombstone"--incredibly weird analogy.

Watch it again - Wasn't the people sitting but the people walking up the steps in the background who did an about face. I was there last year in July (must of been close to 100 out) and some little kid dropped a empty water bottle over the rope and it actually started to roll towards the soldier and everyone (must of been more than 75 people) was just waiting to see what would happen. The soldier ended up going over to the green booth (in the video above) where he called someone to retrieve it. Very moving place to visit. JFK grave is close by..



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-11 05:37 by 2000 LYFH.

Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: stonesnow ()
Date: November 11, 2012 05:40

Quote
2000 LYFH
Quote
stonesnow
Can't see the big judgmental moral fuss people are making over the tourists touching ["molesting"?!] the gravestone--it's the head stone, not the dead Stone. Don't see the necrophilia analogy there.

Regarding the Arlington reference, why were those tourists lucky they didn't get shot? They're sitting behind the fenced-off area. Don't see the analogy the poster was trying to make between Arlington National cemetery and the one in Cheltenham UK where Brian is buried. Is Brian's grave a sacred national monument? Is it fenced off? Does it have soldiers guarding it 24-7 3-6-5? No, so chill. At least they weren't sitting there drinking and drugging and spraying graffiti over the headstone like they do to Morrison's grave in Paris.

They were just wanting to feel a connection, that's all. I'm sure no disrespect was intended, and they obviously left the grave site as neat and intact as they found it. "Feeling up his tombstone"--incredibly weird analogy.

Watch it again - Wasn't the people sitting but the people walking up the steps in the background who did an about face. I was there last year in July (must of been close to 100 out) and some little kid dropped a empty water bottle over the rope and it actually started to roll towards the soldier and everyone (must of been more than 75 people) was just waiting to see what would happen. The soldier ended up going over to a booth where he called someone to retrieve it. Very moving place to visit. JFK grave is close by..

I didn't actually watch that video, I was just commenting on the still photo in the frame of the people sitting there. I didn't bother watching it because I couldn't see the analogy between a military-guarded fenced-in public monument and a run-of-the-mill civilian cemetery in which Brian is buried. One draws analogies to point out similarities, but in that case, there were no similarities to be highlighted.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-11 06:03 by stonesnow.

Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: 2000 LYFH ()
Date: November 11, 2012 05:48

Quote
stonesnow
Quote
2000 LYFH
Quote
stonesnow
Can't see the big judgmental moral fuss people are making over the tourists touching ["molesting"?!] the gravestone--it's the head stone, not the dead Stone. Don't see the necrophilia analogy there.

Regarding the Arlington reference, why were those tourists lucky they didn't get shot? They're sitting behind the fenced-off area. Don't see the analogy the poster was trying to make between Arlington National cemetery and the one in Cheltenham UK where Brian is buried. Is Brian's grave a sacred national monument? Is it fenced off? Does it have soldiers guarding it 24-7 3-6-5? No, so chill. At least they weren't sitting there drinking and drugging and spraying graffiti over the headstone like they do to Morrison's grave in Paris.

They were just wanting to feel a connection, that's all. I'm sure no disrespect was intended, and they obviously left the grave site as neat and intact as they found it. "Feeling up his tombstone"--incredibly weird analogy.

Watch it again - Wasn't the people sitting but the people walking up the steps in the background who did an about face. I was there last year in July (must of been close to 100 out) and some little kid dropped a empty water bottle over the rope and it actually started to roll towards the soldier and everyone (must of been more than 75 people) was just waiting to see what would happen. The soldier ended up going over to a booth where he called someone to retrieve it. Very moving place to visit. JFK grave is close by..

I didn't actually watch that video, I was just commenting on the still photo in the frame of the people sitting there. I didn't bother watching it because I couldn't see the analogy between a military-guarded fenced-in public monument and a run-of-the-mill civilian cemetery in which Brian is buried. You draw analogies to point out similarities, but in that case, there were no similarities to be highlighted.

Ha Ha, I see your point. I actually agree with you about Brian's grave. As long as you are not destroying anything and are respectful, I see nothing wrong with the photos above. In fact, I've see many people in photos over the years posing there (including Pat Andrew's and other people who knew him).

Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: stonesnow ()
Date: November 11, 2012 06:01

Quote
Edith Grove
Gram parson's site:

I spent about 15 minutes cleaning the dead grass off his marker before I could take this picture:


Ah, Gram Parsons. Do you know about Gram's 'cremation ceremony' out in Joshua Tree? A friend of Gram's (Phil Kaufman), per Parson's funeral wishes, stole the body from an airport terminal where it was slated to be shipped home to family, and after getting filthy drunk on the way, set the coffin by the side of the road in Joshua Tree, opened it, poured gasoline over the body, lit it on fire, and drove off and left it there.

Wonder what all the high-minded moralistic self-righteous posters in this thread who find offense to touching Brian's head stone would have to say about that if they knew? It's in the movie Gram Parsons: Fallen Angel (2006).

The grave site you so reverentially took the time to tidy up contains only 35 pounds of charred remains, having had 5 gallons of [Hi-Test] gasoline poured onto it.








Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: johnnyguitar ()
Date: November 11, 2012 06:17

Quote
stonesnow
Ah, Gram Parsons. Do you know about Gram's 'cremation ceremony' out in Joshua Tree? A friend of Gram's (Phil Kaufman), per Parson's funeral wishes, stole the body from an airport terminal where it was slated to be shipped home to family, and after getting filthy drunk on the way, set the coffin by the side of the road in Joshua Tree, opened it, poured gasoline over the body, lit it on fire, and drove off and left it there.

Wonder what all the high-minded moralistic self-righteous posters in this thread who find offense to touching Brian's head stone would have to say about that if they knew? It's in the movie Gram Parsons: Fallen Angel (2006).

I have known this story for 30 years, like most other Stones fans. Are you saying you learned of it from a 2006 movie-of-the-week? I'm not sure what to say about that.
Anyway my friend, the Gram story has zero relevancy to the misadventures of Mickijaggeroo at Brian's gravesite. Just for starters, Gram's body was stolen by a friend known to him, who was acting as per Gram's wishes.
Whereas Mickijaggeroo in those photos was acting like an over-jealous fan, who thinks he is entitled to a closeness with Brian that doesn't actually exist. Part of being a fan (and a human being) is knowing what the boundaries are.
Hopefully the next visitors show more respect.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-11 06:18 by johnnyguitar.

Re: HELP NEEDED - How to get to Cheltenham Cemetery (Brian Jones)
Posted by: stonesnow ()
Date: November 11, 2012 06:33

Quote
johnnyguitar
Quote
stonesnow
Ah, Gram Parsons. Do you know about Gram's 'cremation ceremony' out in Joshua Tree? A friend of Gram's (Phil Kaufman), per Parson's funeral wishes, stole the body from an airport terminal where it was slated to be shipped home to family, and after getting filthy drunk on the way, set the coffin by the side of the road in Joshua Tree, opened it, poured gasoline over the body, lit it on fire, and drove off and left it there.

Wonder what all the high-minded moralistic self-righteous posters in this thread who find offense to touching Brian's head stone would have to say about that if they knew? It's in the movie Gram Parsons: Fallen Angel (2006).

I have known this story for 30 years, like most other Stones fans. Are you saying you learned of it from a 2006 movie-of-the-week? I'm not sure what to say about that.
Anyway my friend, the Gram story has zero relevancy to the misadventures of Mickijaggeroo at Brian's gravesite. Just for starters, Gram's body was stolen by a friend known to him, who was acting as per Gram's wishes.
Whereas Mickijaggeroo in those photos was acting like an over-jealous fan, who thinks he is entitled to a closeness with Brian that doesn't actually exist. Part of being a fan (and a human being) is knowing what the boundaries are.
Hopefully the next visitors show more respect.

Not sure what the "movie-of-the-week" reference is--sarcasm, perhaps? I could have learned of the story 30 years ago as well, but was never deep enough into Gram Parsons to find out about his life. An acquaintance mentioned the movie a few years back so I obtained a DVD copy. [Does network TV still do that "movie of the week" thing? I thought that TV feature format faded with the 70s.] If you're not sure what to say about that, it's probably because there is nothing to say about that. At any rate, funeral wishes aside, you also know from the film that some in Gram's family were mightily offended by Phil Kaufman's gesture ["You just don't do that... you just don't!"].

Still don't know what ticks you off about the Brian grave site photos. Posing by a grave stone with a hand resting gently atop the marker is grossly offensive, because it violates boundaries, but stealing a dead body prior to a family burial is okay.... well, my friend, I'm not sure what to say about that.... so I'll just go watch another zombie flick and get back to you....

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