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treaclefingers

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ChrisM
I live in the Bay Area where you seem to live as well. In Mountain View at the moment the sky is slightly hazy but if the pattern I saw last weekend carries on it will clear up. Yesterday in the City the sky was blue after the clouds burned off. You wrote "...chem trails, weather modification whatever. You have to be 1/2 dead not to see the obvious spraying.." What makes you say chem trails, weather modificaton? Do you know this to be a fact? If so how? And what exactly is "obvious" about the spraying you say is going on? Can you substaniate any of this? Or is just you take on the matter? Expound please...

To save some time, and before he goes into a lengthy explanation, can you please confirm whether or not you're half dead?

I checked myself for a pulse this morning and having found one I concluded I must be at least 1/2 alive, or dead, or something. During our ritual hike in Santa Cruz mountains yesterday I was looking at the sky more attentively than usual and I did not observe the contrails nor the milky white sky Naturalust mentioned in his initial post. The sky was a beautiful, clear blue. Now, I'm sure he is seeing what he sees down Santa Cruz way (which isn't that far away from where I live) but his initial post left me with the impresson it was happening all over North America. That's as maybe, but I least have not seen it in my litle corner of the continient. Now as to the links our Max provided, I read nothing there that provided cold hard science to substaniate the claim. Rather, what I read there was speculation sandwiched between a premise and a conclsuion, not good science. I'm skeptical by nature and so if I'm presented with a unusual premise, I need something more than the statement of it to convince me of its validity. Although there may well be something to all of this, I have so far read nothing to convince that this is so...

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ChrisM

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treaclefingers

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ChrisM
I live in the Bay Area where you seem to live as well. In Mountain View at the moment the sky is slightly hazy but if the pattern I saw last weekend carries on it will clear up. Yesterday in the City the sky was blue after the clouds burned off. You wrote "...chem trails, weather modification whatever. You have to be 1/2 dead not to see the obvious spraying.." What makes you say chem trails, weather modificaton? Do you know this to be a fact? If so how? And what exactly is "obvious" about the spraying you say is going on? Can you substaniate any of this? Or is just you take on the matter? Expound please...

To save some time, and before he goes into a lengthy explanation, can you please confirm whether or not you're half dead?

I checked myself for a pulse this morning and having found one I concluded I must be at least 1/2 alive, or dead, or something. During our ritual hike in Santa Cruz mountains yesterday I was looking at the sky more attentively than usual and I did not observe the contrails nor the milky white sky Naturalust mentioned in his initial post. The sky was a beautiful, clear blue. Now, I'm sure he is seeing what he sees down Santa Cruz way (which isn't that far away from where I live) but his initial post left me with the impresson it was happening all over North America. That's as maybe, but I least have not seen it in my litle corner of the continient. Now as to the links our Max provided, I read nothing there that provided cold hard science to substaniate the claim. Rather, what I read there was speculation sandwiched between a premise and a conclsuion, not good science. I'm skeptical by nature and so if I'm presented with a unusual premise, I need something more than the statement of it to convince me of its validity. Although there may well be something to all of this, I have so far read nothing to convince that this is so...

Strage you haven't seen it yet Chris. I even had visitors from Florida yesterday riding horses with us exclaim " Where are all those planes going?". There is a documentary on YoTube called "What is the World are they Spraying?" . Some of the stuff they point out is seems clear enough to me. Check it out. peace

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Edith Grove

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EddieByword
when all the planes were grounded over the US in 2001 there was a 2/3 degree rise in temperature over there until they started flying again.

We're only talking about a few days here, and a one-time event.
Who's to say those days weren't going to be warmer anyway ?

What kills me are the radical idiots who believe we need to take (radical) action to stop what they think is the impending doom of our planet.
Are not these people aware that Earth is millions of years old, and accurate weather records only go back to the late nineteenth century ?

One thing you almost never hear talked about is the effect of solar activity on our planet.
Seems like you only hear about this when flare-ups happen that knock out our communication systems.
Fact is, solar activity is never at a "constant" level, and one day in the far-off future, the thing that gave life to our planet will destroy our planet.
Sorry if I offended any religious types here. Well, not really.

This is true Edith of course and I'm not knowledgable to say definitely one way or the other, just going on the observations and speculations of the BBC. It does make sense though, I mean in hot countries people tend to wear white and paint their houses white/light colours to reflect heat, so it does follow then that natural white clouds, the polar caps and man made white clouds (spreading & merging contrails) will also do that, so, when a source of one type of cloud (the man made ones) disappears for a few days that it would register.

I don't know about your second point, I've seen loads of programs about climatologists 'reading' what the climate was going back millions of years from records held in fossils of trees and other plants and by drilling down into the ice and bringing up huge shafts of it going back hundreds of thousands of years to be studied layer by layer. Apparently different types of ice are produced relative to different climatic conditions and the records of those conditions are all there trapped in the layers of ice...the deeper they drill the further back in time they go. In Antartica it's miles deep.......

I've heard about the sun flare ups, apparently it's on a eleven year cycle and activity is due to increase next year - peaking.

No problem with your last point, I'm Church of England....so, not religious at all..........



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-04 18:55 by EddieByword.

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StonesTod
everything's clear and cool in texas...everybody move here...plenty of room...plenty of sunshine...plenty of great, free music...we rock.

I thought you lived in Ca.

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EddieByword
I don't know about your second point, I've seen loads of programs about climatologists 'reading' what the climate was going back millions of years from records held in fossils of trees and other plants and by drilling down into the ice and bringing up huge shafts of it going back hundreds of thousands of years to be studied layer by layer. Apparently different types of ice are produced relative to different climatic conditions and the records of those conditions are all there trapped in the layers of ice...the deeper they drill the further back in time they go. In Antartica it's miles deep.......

Yeah, that's some interesting stuff.

They can tell what the climate was like eons ago, but the timeline accuracy is probably something like +/- thousands of years and I don't know if they can accurately relate any of that to solar activity at the time.

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Edith Grove

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EddieByword
I don't know about your second point, I've seen loads of programs about climatologists 'reading' what the climate was going back millions of years from records held in fossils of trees and other plants and by drilling down into the ice and bringing up huge shafts of it going back hundreds of thousands of years to be studied layer by layer. Apparently different types of ice are produced relative to different climatic conditions and the records of those conditions are all there trapped in the layers of ice...the deeper they drill the further back in time they go. In Antartica it's miles deep.......

Yeah, that's some interesting stuff.

They can tell what the climate was like eons ago, but the timeline accuracy is probably something like +/- thousands of years and I don't know if they can accurately relate any of that to solar activity at the time.

I don't know either but I'd bet there's somebody working on it because as you say it's just common sense that there's a corrolation........

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tipps

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StonesTod
everything's clear and cool in texas...everybody move here...plenty of room...plenty of sunshine...plenty of great, free music...we rock.

I thought you lived in Ca.

He did, but made California too hot to hold him and so was banished to Texas. One day, maybe, the exile will be lifted and he can return and have the occasional libation with his friends here in The Promised Land...

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Edith Grove

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EddieByword
when all the planes were grounded over the US in 2001 there was a 2/3 degree rise in temperature over there until they started flying again.

We're only talking about a few days here, and a one-time event.
Who's to say those days weren't going to be warmer anyway ?

What kills me are the radical idiots who believe we need to take (radical) action to stop what they think is the impending doom of our planet.
Are not these people aware that Earth is millions of years old, and accurate weather records only go back to the late nineteenth century ?

One thing you almost never hear talked about is the effect of solar activity on our planet.
Seems like you only hear about this when flare-ups happen that knock out our communication systems.
Fact is, solar activity is never at a "constant" level, and one day in the far-off future, the thing that gave life to our planet will destroy our planet.
Sorry if I offended any religious types here. Well, not really.

You're totally right Mr. Grove, we just don't know for sure.

But two counterpoints.

1. Why take the chance if we might be able to do something about it? (I'm not even bringing in the point that this is scientific fact now that you're arguing against).
2. By doing something about it, how would it hurt if we stopped simultaneously poisoning ourselves? That we are definitely doing to ourselves.

It just isn't logical to not try and work to develop alternative energies...it just doesn't make sense.

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treaclefingers

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Edith Grove

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EddieByword
when all the planes were grounded over the US in 2001 there was a 2/3 degree rise in temperature over there until they started flying again.

We're only talking about a few days here, and a one-time event.
Who's to say those days weren't going to be warmer anyway ?

What kills me are the radical idiots who believe we need to take (radical) action to stop what they think is the impending doom of our planet.
Are not these people aware that Earth is millions of years old, and accurate weather records only go back to the late nineteenth century ?

One thing you almost never hear talked about is the effect of solar activity on our planet.
Seems like you only hear about this when flare-ups happen that knock out our communication systems.
Fact is, solar activity is never at a "constant" level, and one day in the far-off future, the thing that gave life to our planet will destroy our planet.
Sorry if I offended any religious types here. Well, not really.

You're totally right Mr. Grove, we just don't know for sure.

But two counterpoints.

1. Why take the chance if we might be able to do something about it? (I'm not even bringing in the point that this is scientific fact now that you're arguing against).
2. By doing something about it, how would it hurt if we stopped simultaneously poisoning ourselves? That we are definitely doing to ourselves.

It just isn't logical to not try and work to develop alternative energies...it just doesn't make sense.

This is what I think, even if the other stuff about global warming is not 'our' fault.........car fumes, factory fumes, etc they are poisonous, try getting in your car and smoking 20 cigarettes one after another, sure, you'll probaly feel really sick and if you did that every day you might end up with a disease that kills you, but try sticking a hose-pipe in your car exhaust and sticking that in the cab through the window.....curtains of course, yet there's such a relatively big fuss over cigarettes.....(and that's from someone who has emphysema)......



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-05 04:37 by EddieByword.

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treaclefingers

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Edith Grove

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EddieByword
when all the planes were grounded over the US in 2001 there was a 2/3 degree rise in temperature over there until they started flying again.

We're only talking about a few days here, and a one-time event.
Who's to say those days weren't going to be warmer anyway ?

What kills me are the radical idiots who believe we need to take (radical) action to stop what they think is the impending doom of our planet.
Are not these people aware that Earth is millions of years old, and accurate weather records only go back to the late nineteenth century ?

One thing you almost never hear talked about is the effect of solar activity on our planet.
Seems like you only hear about this when flare-ups happen that knock out our communication systems.
Fact is, solar activity is never at a "constant" level, and one day in the far-off future, the thing that gave life to our planet will destroy our planet.
Sorry if I offended any religious types here. Well, not really.

You're totally right Mr. Grove, we just don't know for sure.

But two counterpoints.

1. Why take the chance if we might be able to do something about it? (I'm not even bringing in the point that this is scientific fact now that you're arguing against).
2. By doing something about it, how would it hurt if we stopped simultaneously poisoning ourselves? That we are definitely doing to ourselves.

It just isn't logical to not try and work to develop alternative energies...it just doesn't make sense.

I'm not arguing against doing something about it.
My point is that we don't know nearly enough to make the conclusion that Mankind is destroying the planet.

I'm all for scientific research and breathing clean air, drinking clean water, etc., but I'm constantly bewildered by people who think we need to radically change our lifestyles based solely on recent research.

As for alternative energies, I'm for that as well, as long as we don't spend ourselves silly trying to "make it work right now."
In time, alternative energies will become more mainstream and affordable when that happens.

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EddieByword
.....(and that's from someone who has emphysema)......

Sorry to hear, Eddie. Take care of yourself.

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Edith Grove

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EddieByword
.....(and that's from someone who has emphysema)......

Sorry to hear, Eddie. Take care of yourself.

Cheers Edith, thanks, completely self-inflicted of course but I did give up smoking 10 years ago so although progressive it's pretty slow - and I've been told that if I keep my excercise regime going there's a good chance - although I'll never run a marathon - that I'll still be going in 30 years and die of something else completely...........but yeah, thanks again...... ..........

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ChrisM

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tipps

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StonesTod
everything's clear and cool in texas...everybody move here...plenty of room...plenty of sunshine...plenty of great, free music...we rock.

I thought you lived in Ca.

He did, but made California too hot to hold him and so was banished to Texas. One day, maybe, the exile will be lifted and he can return and have the occasional libation with his friends here in The Promised Land...

give up god's country for the promised land? promises aren't always kept, you know. but god is eternal...or something...

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StonesTod
everything's clear and cool in texas...everybody move here...plenty of room...plenty of sunshine...plenty of great, free music...we rock.

Hey, wait--isn't that where the Chainsaw Massacre happened? I think someone even filmed it, and there might even have been more than one Chainsaw Massacre. At least in the city smog it's safe, because people aren't running around with chainsaws and stuff wearing funny masks made out of human skin... or something.

I am in northern Ca as well, there have been some high clouds latley... could be just that. pretty normal for this time of year as its still dry but the storms are getting closer, so some of the higher clouds trail along the edge of it and pass over.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-05 05:36 by ryanpow.

It's called water vapour, people. Every time you exhale you are adding water vapour to the envirionment. "Con trails" arguably exist to sell pulp books to make money for fake authors that are cashing in on this manufactured issue. It's all a money scam. We live in an age where people can make a living selling pure steaming bull crap to willing consumers.

The Earth is tilting on its axis and the moon is changing its orbit. Didn't you hear?

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StonesTod
everything's clear and cool in texas...everybody move here...plenty of room...plenty of sunshine...plenty of great, free music...we rock.

I'll be right over. But seriously, why do you guys keep electing idiots as governor?

Mankind cant change the climates on Earth. It's impossible. The climates have always changed, and hopefully it will get warmer again here in the horribly cold North. Sadly that has not been the case these last 15 years. Human beings, animals and plants all prefer warmer to colder. That's a fact.

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Redhotcarpet
Mankind cant change the climates on Earth. It's impossible. The climates have always changed, and hopefully it will get warmer again here in the horribly cold North. Sadly that has not been the case these last 15 years. Human beings, animals and plants all prefer warmer to colder. That's a fact.

Mankind can destroy it, or alter it...

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Redhotcarpet
Mankind cant change the climates on Earth. It's impossible. The climates have always changed, and hopefully it will get warmer again here in the horribly cold North. Sadly that has not been the case these last 15 years. Human beings, animals and plants all prefer warmer to colder. That's a fact.

That may be overally true with regard to land creatures (although obviously hot deserts are just as undesirable places to live as the polar regions, that's clear from the relative lack of bio-diversity there) but is certainly not true of the oceans.............[wiki.answers.com] ......if you want to empty those, good luck with that............
And, from what I've heard, this slight rise in temperature now is melting the icecaps which when their gone will lead to in the 'short term' (between now and thousands of years) the stagnation of the Atlantic Ocean Gulf stream conveyor and the freezing of Europe.
In the long term (hundred of thousands of years) potentially a runaway greenhouse efffect. ie The earth could end up boiling like Venus with no life at all left except heat resistant bacteria and even they wouldn't survive top temperatures.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-05 12:55 by EddieByword.

What we have been seeing is not like any water vapor I have ever seen before. I don't doubt whatever they are putting into the atmosphere makes clouds and attracts water vapor (salts) but something has changed the last few years.

I like my water vapor made by nature and not by high flying aircraft. There is plenty of sceince to support that they are doing something. Even our local paper has been getting editorials about it so I stand by my observations and presumptions. My neighbor is an ex commercial airline pilot and he also believes something is going on.

Besides how do you account for the high aluminum levels in our forest soil and water supplies for the last 3 or 4 years? That is what really concerns me. peace

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71Tele

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StonesTod
everything's clear and cool in texas...everybody move here...plenty of room...plenty of sunshine...plenty of great, free music...we rock.

I'll be right over. But seriously, why do you guys keep electing idiots as governor?

came from the great state that twice elected the governator. we'll stop when it stops.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-05 14:25 by StonesTod.

It is happening.

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StonesTod

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71Tele

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StonesTod
everything's clear and cool in texas...everybody move here...plenty of room...plenty of sunshine...plenty of great, free music...we rock.

I'll be right over. But seriously, why do you guys keep electing idiots as governor?

came from the great state that twice elected the governator. we'll stop when it stops.

Went from Terminator to Governator to Humiliator.

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Naturalust

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ChrisM

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treaclefingers

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ChrisM
I live in the Bay Area where you seem to live as well. In Mountain View at the moment the sky is slightly hazy but if the pattern I saw last weekend carries on it will clear up. Yesterday in the City the sky was blue after the clouds burned off. You wrote "...chem trails, weather modification whatever. You have to be 1/2 dead not to see the obvious spraying.." What makes you say chem trails, weather modificaton? Do you know this to be a fact? If so how? And what exactly is "obvious" about the spraying you say is going on? Can you substaniate any of this? Or is just you take on the matter? Expound please...

To save some time, and before he goes into a lengthy explanation, can you please confirm whether or not you're half dead?

I checked myself for a pulse this morning and having found one I concluded I must be at least 1/2 alive, or dead, or something. During our ritual hike in Santa Cruz mountains yesterday I was looking at the sky more attentively than usual and I did not observe the contrails nor the milky white sky Naturalust mentioned in his initial post. The sky was a beautiful, clear blue. Now, I'm sure he is seeing what he sees down Santa Cruz way (which isn't that far away from where I live) but his initial post left me with the impresson it was happening all over North America. That's as maybe, but I least have not seen it in my litle corner of the continient. Now as to the links our Max provided, I read nothing there that provided cold hard science to substaniate the claim. Rather, what I read there was speculation sandwiched between a premise and a conclsuion, not good science. I'm skeptical by nature and so if I'm presented with a unusual premise, I need something more than the statement of it to convince me of its validity. Although there may well be something to all of this, I have so far read nothing to convince that this is so...

Strage you haven't seen it yet Chris. I even had visitors from Florida yesterday riding horses with us exclaim " Where are all those planes going?". There is a documentary on YoTube called "What is the World are they Spraying?" . Some of the stuff they point out is seems clear enough to me. Check it out. peace

It's a conspiracy. Call Oliver Stone and tell him to make a bad movie out of it.

"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"

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Lorenz
In bigger cities skies tend to be smoggy on certain days, I guess - apart from that, it's still clear blue skies here in Austria on a good day.

Lorenz, in what part of Austria are you living? I frequent the mountains in Vorarlberg on vacation just up from Dornbirn. Beautiful blue skies in Ebnit when its clear. Streaked only be vapor trails from Zurich-Munich flights. I return there end of the year for 10 days. Always fun.

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Redhotcarpet
Mankind cant change the climates on Earth. It's impossible. The climates have always changed, and hopefully it will get warmer again here in the horribly cold North. Sadly that has not been the case these last 15 years. Human beings, animals and plants all prefer warmer to colder. That's a fact.

We are on the right track then.

ChrisM, If you live in the SF Bay area, today is a good day to look up into the skies and ask yourself if these clouds are natural. After about 4 days off they are at it again.

The ones on the coastside started as jet trails, became clouds and now the whole sky is filled with white cloud formations that are typical of what I have been seeing. If you look right now over the Santa Cruz mountains you can see a few jets still at work.

As far as being a conspiracy, as if that's highly unusual in our society, I would guess yes, only because there has been little if any declaration about what is going on. If you think conspiracy is an uncommon occurance in the USA I suggest you look at the records of our Court system. The dockets are littered with conspiracy trials. peace



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-11 20:56 by Naturalust.

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sweetcharmedlife
Call Oliver Stone and tell him to make a bad movie out of it.

I highly recommend "South of the border", excellent documentary, especially for the Americans who generally have a very poor geographical/geopolitical knowledge.

I highly recommend "What in the World are they Spraying" , especially for the Americans who generally have a poor understanding that something is definately going on in our skies that we are not being informed about.

The skies belong to us all and what I am seeing really worries me. Lots of questions to be answered but lets have some rational discussion about what we are witnessing. Plenty of scientific minded Americans are already starting to call for some disclosure. What could be more American?

Today you would have to be completely out of touch not to notice that the white haze in our Sunday sky is coming from the high altitude airplanes. peace