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No, that's not much of a difference. There's 4 from Wembley on "Brussels Affair" and 3 from 1st show on the official release.
And besides you also have the famous bootlegs featuring the entire 1st Brussels show, minus Star Star, which goes under other names than "Brussels Affair"
Well, at least there are more from other shows AND those performances are better than that on the Brussels-shows, so.. well, I guess there isn't that much of a difference. I thought one of the tracks (BS?) was from Newcastle as well?
I think I have the first show somewhere - would that be the boot called "Headin' For An Overload"?
I also think I have Star Star from this show weirdly enough as a bonus track on my copy of "Who Went To Church...", oddly also an Archive-release
My bad....but not in your favour! When I said 4 songs, I meant on "Europe 73". There's only 2 (!) Wembley songs on "Brussels Affair".
When you say you have a version with Star Star from Newcastle, you probably have "Nasty Music / Nasty Remixes". Thats something else.
Headin For An Overload is standard London/Brussels (4 London - rest: Brussels)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-03 12:56 by Erik_Snow.
Actually, the Star Star-version is from the 1st Brussels gig, according to the liner notes. It is indeed included (together with a couple of other 1973-songs) on disc 3 on "Who Went To Church...".
My copy of Headin' For An Overload has a different Brussels/London-show than the standard BA-boot, and the quality (audio) isn't very good.
So you're saying that only Heartbreaker and Happy are not from Brussels on the original BA-bootleg?
No, Heartbreaker and Street Fighting Man comes from London
"Brussels Affair" was released in 1987, it featured a recent 1987 broadcast of 3 tracks: Brown Sugar/Happy/Gimme Shelter from Brussels. THe rest of the tracks on that bootleg was taken from vinyl (incl crackles) ; from "Nasty Music"
Before 1987, we didn't have Happy and Gimme Shelter from Brussels, we only had the London versions."
Could be, as the 1987 broadcast also included BS from Rotterdam, to be recognized by the dry sound and the excellent slide playing of Taylor. Further, the 1987 broadcast had the Brussels version of BS remixed, with clearer drums and an audible sax solo.
Mathijs
Then, it's probably Rotterdam on my copy of Brussels Affair (released by the HawgLeg-label or something...)
I wouldn't call the official release muddy or muffled? A bit compressed maybe, but the sound quality is absolutely fabulous. The drum sound is a bit weird in places, though - and I have some issues with the bass mix, especially on Gimme Shelter.
The bootleg is trebly, although crisp, but sorely lacks bottom/bass in the mix. The audience sound adds a lot of energy to the overall soundscape, though.
I think 2LP "Europe 1973" on Royal Sound is the source.
"Nasty Music" do NOT include All down The LIne.
See table below, it includes the broadcasts dates and a few related bootlegs.
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Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
buffalo7478
()
Date: October 3, 2012 03:37
Am I just off on this or does anyone else think the 'official' Brussels Affair is not as good as the bootleg? The bootleg I have long held near and dear is supposedly from Brussels, with the exception of the last few songs which as supposedly from Wembley Pool. The items from Wembley sound like an audience recording, rougher, etc.
But the original bootleg seemed to have a dirtier sound. Keith's guitar during Gimme Shelter sounded like he was ready to punch someone. Taylor's leads we right up top in the mix. Bobby's solos were uneven, but I always imagined that is what they really sounded like that day.
The official release must be mostly compiled from a different show (did they do two?) and just sounds tired to me. The guitars are not as prominent, esp Taylor.
I'm glad it was a cheap download, and glad they made it available...but I am thinking it might have ben better if left in a more raw state.
But the original bootleg seemed to have a dirtier sound. Keith's guitar during Gimme Shelter sounded like he was ready to punch someone. Taylor's leads we right up top in the mix. Bobby's solos were uneven, but I always imagined that is what they really sounded like that day.
The official release must be mostly compiled from a different show (did they do two?) and just sounds tired to me. The guitars are not as prominent, esp Taylor.
I'm glad it was a cheap download, and glad they made it available...but I am thinking it might have ben better if left in a more raw state.
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
mstmst
()
Date: October 3, 2012 03:59
No question that the boot is the much better performance - maybe some difference in sound - but it's the performance that is the difference. The boot is the Stones' finest hour in terms of live performance captured on tape - IMO
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
oldschool
()
Date: October 3, 2012 04:27
Can't comment on the performance differences but the offical mix is excellent and blows away the boot IMHO
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
Munichhilton
()
Date: October 3, 2012 05:06
It's two different shows ( early and late ) so only a rocket scientist could truly compare....and none of us are about to build a rocket as far as I can tell
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
SweetThing
()
Date: October 3, 2012 05:32
Yes, it seems like the boot captured the better performance, I agree.
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
TeaAtThree
()
Date: October 3, 2012 07:28
That's like choosing between mainlining and freebasing.
Both are pretty damn powerful.
T@3
Both are pretty damn powerful.
T@3
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
24FPS
()
Date: October 3, 2012 07:44
The main problem with the 'unofficial' boot is the lack of bass. I do think the 'unofficial' boot might be the better performance, but the recently released is pretty damn good. I had to swap out and put the 'unofficial' Dancing With Mr. D on the official CD. It is sleazier and darker and swampier and put the studio version to shame.
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
maremma
()
Date: October 3, 2012 11:15
The official is mostly taken from the 17/10/1973 evening show, except Brown Sugar / Midnight Rambler / Street fighting men which come from the Brussels 1st show same day.
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
Erik_Snow
()
Date: October 3, 2012 11:29
The Brussels bootleg which features the first Brussels show combined with Wembley Empire Pool is better than the official one, for sure. The official one is still magnificent tho'. ANd I'm glad they didn't release the show we had been familiar with for 35 years, and gave us the 2nd show instead.....unlike the other 3 vault releases which were big disappointments and not exciting at all
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 3, 2012 11:37
The unofficial bootleg is not "a performance", as it's taken from different gigs - more so than the three tracks from the 1st show that is included on the official release.
The collection of songs on the unofficial bootleg is better than the official release, imo - although I like Gimmie Shelter on the official release the most.
The collection of songs on the unofficial bootleg is better than the official release, imo - although I like Gimmie Shelter on the official release the most.
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
Erik_Snow
()
Date: October 3, 2012 11:43
Quote
DandelionPowderman
The unofficial bootleg is not "a performance", as it's taken from different gigs - more so than the three tracks from the 1st show that is included on the official release.
No, that's not much of a difference. There's 4 from Wembley on "Brussels Affair" and 3 from 1st show on the official release.
And besides you also have the famous bootlegs featuring the entire 1st Brussels show, minus Star Star, which goes under other names than "Brussels Affair"
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 3, 2012 11:54
Quote
Erik_SnowQuote
DandelionPowderman
The unofficial bootleg is not "a performance", as it's taken from different gigs - more so than the three tracks from the 1st show that is included on the official release.
No, that's not much of a difference. There's 4 from Wembley on "Brussels Affair" and 3 from 1st show on the official release.
And besides you also have the famous bootlegs featuring the entire 1st Brussels show, minus Star Star, which goes under other names than "Brussels Affair"
Well, at least there are more from other shows AND those performances are better than that on the Brussels-shows, so.. well, I guess there isn't that much of a difference. I thought one of the tracks (BS?) was from Newcastle as well?
I think I have the first show somewhere - would that be the boot called "Headin' For An Overload"?
I also think I have Star Star from this show weirdly enough as a bonus track on my copy of "Who Went To Church...", oddly also an Archive-release
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
Erik_Snow
()
Date: October 3, 2012 12:17
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Erik_SnowQuote
DandelionPowderman
The unofficial bootleg is not "a performance", as it's taken from different gigs - more so than the three tracks from the 1st show that is included on the official release.
No, that's not much of a difference. There's 4 from Wembley on "Brussels Affair" and 3 from 1st show on the official release.
And besides you also have the famous bootlegs featuring the entire 1st Brussels show, minus Star Star, which goes under other names than "Brussels Affair"
Well, at least there are more from other shows AND those performances are better than that on the Brussels-shows, so.. well, I guess there isn't that much of a difference. I thought one of the tracks (BS?) was from Newcastle as well?
I think I have the first show somewhere - would that be the boot called "Headin' For An Overload"?
I also think I have Star Star from this show weirdly enough as a bonus track on my copy of "Who Went To Church...", oddly also an Archive-release
My bad....but not in your favour! When I said 4 songs, I meant on "Europe 73". There's only 2 (!) Wembley songs on "Brussels Affair".
When you say you have a version with Star Star from Newcastle, you probably have "Nasty Music / Nasty Remixes". Thats something else.
Headin For An Overload is standard London/Brussels (4 London - rest: Brussels)
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-10-03 12:56 by Erik_Snow.
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
keith56
()
Date: October 3, 2012 12:25
Quote
Erik_Snow
The Brussels bootleg which features the first Brussels show combined with Wembley Empire Pool is better than the official one, for sure. The official one is still magnificent tho'. ANd I'm glad they didn't release the show we had been familiar with for 35 years, and gave us the 2nd show instead.....unlike the other 3 vault releases which were big disappointments and not exciting at all
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 3, 2012 13:06
Quote
Erik_SnowQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Erik_SnowQuote
DandelionPowderman
The unofficial bootleg is not "a performance", as it's taken from different gigs - more so than the three tracks from the 1st show that is included on the official release.
No, that's not much of a difference. There's 4 from Wembley on "Brussels Affair" and 3 from 1st show on the official release.
And besides you also have the famous bootlegs featuring the entire 1st Brussels show, minus Star Star, which goes under other names than "Brussels Affair"
Well, at least there are more from other shows AND those performances are better than that on the Brussels-shows, so.. well, I guess there isn't that much of a difference. I thought one of the tracks (BS?) was from Newcastle as well?
I think I have the first show somewhere - would that be the boot called "Headin' For An Overload"?
I also think I have Star Star from this show weirdly enough as a bonus track on my copy of "Who Went To Church...", oddly also an Archive-release
My bad....but not in your favour! When I said 4 songs, I meant on "Europe 73". There's only 2 (!) Wembley songs on "Brussels Affair".
When you say you have a version with Star Star from Newcastle, you probably have "Nasty Music / Nasty Remixes". Thats something else.
Headin For An Overload is standard London/Brussels (4 London - rest: Brussels)
Actually, the Star Star-version is from the 1st Brussels gig, according to the liner notes. It is indeed included (together with a couple of other 1973-songs) on disc 3 on "Who Went To Church...".
My copy of Headin' For An Overload has a different Brussels/London-show than the standard BA-boot, and the quality (audio) isn't very good.
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 3, 2012 13:15
Quote
Erik_SnowQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Erik_SnowQuote
DandelionPowderman
The unofficial bootleg is not "a performance", as it's taken from different gigs - more so than the three tracks from the 1st show that is included on the official release.
No, that's not much of a difference. There's 4 from Wembley on "Brussels Affair" and 3 from 1st show on the official release.
And besides you also have the famous bootlegs featuring the entire 1st Brussels show, minus Star Star, which goes under other names than "Brussels Affair"
Well, at least there are more from other shows AND those performances are better than that on the Brussels-shows, so.. well, I guess there isn't that much of a difference. I thought one of the tracks (BS?) was from Newcastle as well?
I think I have the first show somewhere - would that be the boot called "Headin' For An Overload"?
I also think I have Star Star from this show weirdly enough as a bonus track on my copy of "Who Went To Church...", oddly also an Archive-release
My bad....but not in your favour! When I said 4 songs, I meant on "Europe 73". There's only 2 (!) Wembley songs on "Brussels Affair".
When you say you have a version with Star Star from Newcastle, you probably have "Nasty Music / Nasty Remixes". Thats something else.
Headin For An Overload is standard London/Brussels (4 London - rest: Brussels)
So you're saying that only Heartbreaker and Happy are not from Brussels on the original BA-bootleg?
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
Erik_Snow
()
Date: October 3, 2012 13:55
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Erik_SnowQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Erik_SnowQuote
DandelionPowderman
The unofficial bootleg is not "a performance", as it's taken from different gigs - more so than the three tracks from the 1st show that is included on the official release.
No, that's not much of a difference. There's 4 from Wembley on "Brussels Affair" and 3 from 1st show on the official release.
And besides you also have the famous bootlegs featuring the entire 1st Brussels show, minus Star Star, which goes under other names than "Brussels Affair"
Well, at least there are more from other shows AND those performances are better than that on the Brussels-shows, so.. well, I guess there isn't that much of a difference. I thought one of the tracks (BS?) was from Newcastle as well?
I think I have the first show somewhere - would that be the boot called "Headin' For An Overload"?
I also think I have Star Star from this show weirdly enough as a bonus track on my copy of "Who Went To Church...", oddly also an Archive-release
My bad....but not in your favour! When I said 4 songs, I meant on "Europe 73". There's only 2 (!) Wembley songs on "Brussels Affair".
When you say you have a version with Star Star from Newcastle, you probably have "Nasty Music / Nasty Remixes". Thats something else.
Headin For An Overload is standard London/Brussels (4 London - rest: Brussels)
So you're saying that only Heartbreaker and Happy are not from Brussels on the original BA-bootleg?
No, Heartbreaker and Street Fighting Man comes from London
"Brussels Affair" was released in 1987, it featured a recent 1987 broadcast of 3 tracks: Brown Sugar/Happy/Gimme Shelter from Brussels. THe rest of the tracks on that bootleg was taken from vinyl (incl crackles) ; from "Nasty Music"
Before 1987, we didn't have Happy and Gimme Shelter from Brussels, we only had the London versions."
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: October 3, 2012 14:04
Ok, thanks Erik. I always thought my version of Happy also was from London for some reason. I got the CD-bootleg back in the early 90s.
I was under the impression that BS was taken from a different show as well, as the sound is quite different in quality.
I was under the impression that BS was taken from a different show as well, as the sound is quite different in quality.
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
liddas
()
Date: October 3, 2012 17:06
Performance wise, I love just any Brussels audio that is available, boot or official. Incredibly high standards-
Sound wise, the official wins hands down. It is nothing less than perfect: you hear well all the instruments, the mix is well balanced, the level of detail is incredible.
C
Sound wise, the official wins hands down. It is nothing less than perfect: you hear well all the instruments, the mix is well balanced, the level of detail is incredible.
C
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
Munichhilton
()
Date: October 3, 2012 17:14
Erik, do you ever get tired of re-explaining Brussels 1973?
Just wondering...
Just wondering...
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: November 5, 2012 23:57
Sorry for bringing this old thread up but I just wish the official release had a Taylor solo on JJF!
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
deardoctor
()
Date: November 6, 2012 00:11
hmmmm it´s easy: burn the first half of the boot-version on CD and replace the second bad sounding half with the offical pearls all down the line, rip this joint, street fighting man and so on.
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: November 6, 2012 12:43
Quote
DandelionPowderman
I was under the impression that BS was taken from a different show as well, as the sound is quite different in quality.
Could be, as the 1987 broadcast also included BS from Rotterdam, to be recognized by the dry sound and the excellent slide playing of Taylor. Further, the 1987 broadcast had the Brussels version of BS remixed, with clearer drums and an audible sax solo.
Mathijs
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 6, 2012 12:48
Quote
MathijsQuote
DandelionPowderman
I was under the impression that BS was taken from a different show as well, as the sound is quite different in quality.
Could be, as the 1987 broadcast also included BS from Rotterdam, to be recognized by the dry sound and the excellent slide playing of Taylor. Further, the 1987 broadcast had the Brussels version of BS remixed, with clearer drums and an audible sax solo.
Mathijs
Then, it's probably Rotterdam on my copy of Brussels Affair (released by the HawgLeg-label or something...)
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
RobertJohnson
()
Date: November 6, 2012 13:40
The official boot is worth due to the fact that there are tracks never heard before in this quite good sound quality. Over all the official boot is somewhat muddy and muffled and not so clear or crisp as the boot we all know.
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 6, 2012 13:44
Quote
RobertJohnson
The official boot is worth due to the fact that there are tracks never heard before in this quite good sound quality. Over all the official boot is somewhat muddy and muffled and not so clear or crisp as the boot we all know.
I wouldn't call the official release muddy or muffled? A bit compressed maybe, but the sound quality is absolutely fabulous. The drum sound is a bit weird in places, though - and I have some issues with the bass mix, especially on Gimme Shelter.
The bootleg is trebly, although crisp, but sorely lacks bottom/bass in the mix. The audience sound adds a lot of energy to the overall soundscape, though.
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
RobertJohnson
()
Date: November 6, 2012 14:27
Compare it to Rattlesnake 015/16 (Brussels Affair - Definitive Edition). This version I would call trebly, high-pitched and crisp. Of course the sound quality and particularly the artistic quality is quite good resp. great on both versions. We can count ourself lucky to have both Brussels concerts.
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: November 6, 2012 15:19
IMO, the best Brussels-experience re the bootleg, is the vinyl release "Rock Out, Cock Out". It's fabulous!
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
LiveAtHidepark
()
Date: November 6, 2012 15:41
Quote
Erik_Snow
"Brussels Affair" was released in 1987, it featured a recent 1987 broadcast of 3 tracks: Brown Sugar/Happy/Gimme Shelter from Brussels. THe rest of the tracks on that bootleg was taken from vinyl (incl crackles) ; from "Nasty Music"
I think 2LP "Europe 1973" on Royal Sound is the source.
"Nasty Music" do NOT include All down The LIne.
See table below, it includes the broadcasts dates and a few related bootlegs.
Re: Official Brussels Affair vs Bootleg
Posted by:
TravelinMan
()
Date: November 6, 2012 18:37
Any soundboard recordings of Bitch, 100 Years Ago, Sweet Virginia, or Silver Train from that tour?
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