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He had speculated earlier in the book that he *could* be Jewish, since the Dupree ancestry was hazy and his people seemed a bit secretive about their origins (I don't have the book in front of me & it's been a few months since I read it, but that's the general swing of it IIRC). That's what he was referring back to when he made the comment about "Paint It Black."
It can also be just a matter of (impropriate) saying. There’s a Dutch saying when you really don’t feel like spending that petty cash: ‘sorry, that’s the old Jew in me’.
Mathijs
But not according to Reform and/or Progressive Judaism.
His ancestors were quite the globetrotters.
Well, it has been studied and it is not impossible. The fact is that people with this surname were studied and that 80% or more have some common DNA traits that are distinct. Perhaps I didn't explain it properly in my original post, genetic science admittedly not being my specialty. I will try to find a link to the study for you.
Is Ronnie Gypsy?
Maybe not closely related but partially related?
Ronnie identifies himself as a descendant of a long line of English water gypsies
(which, if I've got it right, are not ethnically related to the Rom people commonly called gypsies).
Ronnie says his generation was the first in his family to be born on land.
They do? I wouldn't want to doubt the almighty Wikipedia, but I'm fairly sure Ronnie has described his family that way, and certainly used to keep a Romany caravan in his garden. And he credits his supposed Gipsy ancestry for keeping his hair the colour it is (if you don't believe any of the various dye and wig theories). Anyway, if in my ignorance I have offended any boat people, I apologise - the only "boat people" I'm personally acquainted with are Vietnamese. Yet another ingredient in the ever-changing London ethnic stew...
The Howard Stern radio show back in the 90s did something along those lines, but not in the sense of parody. Members of The Rolling Stones were mentioned, and I believe it was established that none of The Stones were Jewish. Some people on the show were surprised that Bill Wyman was not, until someone pointed out that Wyman was just a stage name.
Exactly, sssoul, just wanted to post something in this sense.
I can't give you details, but I remember this topic has been repeatedly discuseed on this forum, even as deep as going into a rather sophisticated analysis of the family name "Watts".
Maybe someone can contribute about the outcome of that analysis.
Best would be to ask Charlie himself.
Wrong. The criteria for being eligible to make your Aliyah is not to "believe", it is to have a Jewish mother (the only line which is safe has there can still be a doubt on the father).
So it IS definitely an ethnicity and something passed through blood...
Wrong, scientists just used DNA from Richard'iii maternal descents to confirm that was him. There's definitely a DNA proximity, and police can tell just by the DNA if someone is from a certain race or not...
Even further back than that actually....
We are stardust.
All we are is dust in the wind.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
Claire_M
()
Date: May 10, 2012 21:33
Quote
Bliss
Namely, what did Keith mean by his statement mentioned in the first post?
He had speculated earlier in the book that he *could* be Jewish, since the Dupree ancestry was hazy and his people seemed a bit secretive about their origins (I don't have the book in front of me & it's been a few months since I read it, but that's the general swing of it IIRC). That's what he was referring back to when he made the comment about "Paint It Black."
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: May 10, 2012 22:19
Quote
Claire_MQuote
Bliss
Namely, what did Keith mean by his statement mentioned in the first post?
He had speculated earlier in the book that he *could* be Jewish, since the Dupree ancestry was hazy and his people seemed a bit secretive about their origins (I don't have the book in front of me & it's been a few months since I read it, but that's the general swing of it IIRC). That's what he was referring back to when he made the comment about "Paint It Black."
It can also be just a matter of (impropriate) saying. There’s a Dutch saying when you really don’t feel like spending that petty cash: ‘sorry, that’s the old Jew in me’.
Mathijs
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
Claire_M
()
Date: May 10, 2012 22:32
Ah, OK.
I was also thinking Keith relates to the ... "oppressed" is not the right word, but the underdogs in society: gypsies, black people, women. That's the Jesus in him perhaps
I was also thinking Keith relates to the ... "oppressed" is not the right word, but the underdogs in society: gypsies, black people, women. That's the Jesus in him perhaps
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: May 11, 2012 00:38
Quote
MathijsQuote
Redhotcarpet
And children with Jewish fathers and gentile mothers can also be Jewish, depending on who you ask of course.
According to the Halakha, a child of a father who is not a jew can only become a jew through conversion, and even that does not grant you full rights by the Israeli law of return.
Mathijs
But not according to Reform and/or Progressive Judaism.
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
uhbuhgullayew
()
Date: May 12, 2012 06:15
Quote
keefbajaga
Keith is originally a combination of a Balkan/Serbian negro-indian son of gypsy-bitch
His ancestors were quite the globetrotters.
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
RedlandsRodge
()
Date: May 12, 2012 23:28
Keith made it clear enough years ago when being interviewed on TV: "We're all African".
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
Send It To me
()
Date: May 13, 2012 00:07
Quote
RedlandsRodge
Keith made it clear enough years ago when being interviewed on TV: "We're all African".
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: May 13, 2012 02:29
Quote
MathijsQuote
71Tele
True, but actually there is Jewish DNA. Turns out that something like 80% of the people who have the surname "Cohen" (or variant) have common DNA that ties them together. I happen to be one and I find that interesting.
That seems impossible, as within five generations DNA is diluted to less than 3%. The relationship between you and your grand-grand-father is about as close as the relation between you and me.
Mathijs
Well, it has been studied and it is not impossible. The fact is that people with this surname were studied and that 80% or more have some common DNA traits that are distinct. Perhaps I didn't explain it properly in my original post, genetic science admittedly not being my specialty. I will try to find a link to the study for you.
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
uhbuhgullayew
()
Date: March 18, 2013 18:40
Quote
Green Lady
Keith's immediate ancestors on both sides are in and around North and East London - anybody who is a member of one of the many genealogy websites should be able to trace a fairly unusual surname like Dupree (his maternal Grandfather's name) without too much trouble. I'm not signed up so I can't see much, but there's a tantalising "John Dupree, violinist" in the 1881 London census. Further back Dupre/Dupree is a French or Channel Islands, and yes, possibly Huguenot name. Anybody feel like doing some research?
Richards on the other hand is one of the commonest surnames in Britain, and I for one don't know if his dad was AlBert, HerBert, HuBert or even Bertram Richards... Anyway it's likely to be Welsh further back down the line.
"Wood", by the way, is one of the classic Gypsy surnames in the UK and there have been some famous Gypsy musicians by that name - not that I think our Ronnie is closely related to them: it's also, alas, another very common surname - like Jones and Taylor...
Is Ronnie Gypsy?
Maybe not closely related but partially related?
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
with sssoul
()
Date: March 18, 2013 19:36
Quote
uhbuhgullayew
Is Ronnie Gypsy?
Maybe not closely related but partially related?
Ronnie identifies himself as a descendant of a long line of English water gypsies
(which, if I've got it right, are not ethnically related to the Rom people commonly called gypsies).
Ronnie says his generation was the first in his family to be born on land.
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
Koen
()
Date: March 18, 2013 20:54
Quote
wikipedia
Canal companies were unable to compete against the speed of the new railways, and in order to survive they had to slash their prices. This put an end to the huge profits that canal companies had enjoyed before the coming of the railways, and also had an effect on the boatmen who faced a drop in wages. Flyboat working virtually ceased, as it could not compete with the railways on speed and the boatmen found they could only afford to keep their families by taking them with them on the boats. This became standard practice across the canal system, with in many cases families with several children living in tiny boat cabins, creating a considerable community of boat people. Though this community ostensibly had much in common with Gypsies both communities strongly resisted any such comparison, and surviving boat people feel deeply insulted if described as 'water gypsies'.
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
Green Lady
()
Date: March 19, 2013 05:19
Quote
KoenQuote
wikipedia
Canal companies were unable to compete against the speed of the new railways, and in order to survive they had to slash their prices. This put an end to the huge profits that canal companies had enjoyed before the coming of the railways, and also had an effect on the boatmen who faced a drop in wages. Flyboat working virtually ceased, as it could not compete with the railways on speed and the boatmen found they could only afford to keep their families by taking them with them on the boats. This became standard practice across the canal system, with in many cases families with several children living in tiny boat cabins, creating a considerable community of boat people. Though this community ostensibly had much in common with Gypsies both communities strongly resisted any such comparison, and surviving boat people feel deeply insulted if described as 'water gypsies'.
They do? I wouldn't want to doubt the almighty Wikipedia, but I'm fairly sure Ronnie has described his family that way, and certainly used to keep a Romany caravan in his garden. And he credits his supposed Gipsy ancestry for keeping his hair the colour it is (if you don't believe any of the various dye and wig theories). Anyway, if in my ignorance I have offended any boat people, I apologise - the only "boat people" I'm personally acquainted with are Vietnamese. Yet another ingredient in the ever-changing London ethnic stew...
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: March 19, 2013 06:08
There was a hilarious Saturday Night Live game show parody years ago called "Jew/Not A Jew". The emcee would announce a category like "Michael Douglas" and the contestants would have to say "Jew" or "not a Jew". Perhaps Keith could be on that.
Before certain parties go crazy here: A. I am Jewish, and B. This was parody.
Before certain parties go crazy here: A. I am Jewish, and B. This was parody.
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
stonehearted
()
Date: March 19, 2013 06:20
Quote
71Tele
There was a hilarious Saturday Night Live game show parody years ago called "Jew/Not A Jew". The emcee would announce a category like "Michael Douglas" and the contestants would have to say "Jew" or "not a Jew". Perhaps Keith could be on that.
Before certain parties go crazy here: A. I am Jewish, and B. This was parody.
The Howard Stern radio show back in the 90s did something along those lines, but not in the sense of parody. Members of The Rolling Stones were mentioned, and I believe it was established that none of The Stones were Jewish. Some people on the show were surprised that Bill Wyman was not, until someone pointed out that Wyman was just a stage name.
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
owlbynite
()
Date: March 19, 2013 07:52
Brian...Episcopalian...former choir boy where his funeral was held?
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
GravityBoy
()
Date: March 19, 2013 09:09
Keith is pure blood pirate from Pirate Street, Piratetown, Pirateland on planet Pirate.
He bleeds pieces of eight.
Some of His best friends are parrots.
He bleeds pieces of eight.
Some of His best friends are parrots.
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: March 19, 2013 09:16
.... i guess ya saying he's a pirate-copy Gravity .......
ROCKMAN
ROCKMAN
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
z
()
Date: March 19, 2013 09:57
But Charlie is Jewish, isn't he?
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
dead.flowers
()
Date: March 19, 2013 11:29
Quote
with sssoulQuote
uhbuhgullayew
Is Ronnie Gypsy?
Maybe not closely related but partially related?
Ronnie identifies himself as a descendant of a long line of English water gypsies
(which, if I've got it right, are not ethnically related to the Rom people commonly called gypsies).
Ronnie says his generation was the first in his family to be born on land.
Exactly, sssoul, just wanted to post something in this sense.
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
dead.flowers
()
Date: March 19, 2013 11:34
Quote
varilla
Never saw, heard or read those interviews were Charlie says he is Jewish. Can anyone give more details?
I can't give you details, but I remember this topic has been repeatedly discuseed on this forum, even as deep as going into a rather sophisticated analysis of the family name "Watts".
Maybe someone can contribute about the outcome of that analysis.
Best would be to ask Charlie himself.
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
parislocksmith
()
Date: March 19, 2013 13:03
It's in Booth's "The True Adventures of the Rolling Stones". CW talks about his early career and his stint in Denmark, saying something to the effect that 'being Jewish I wanted more money'.
(Don't google 'Charlie Watts Jewish' unless you want to read incoherent rants from deeply unsavoury people.)
(Don't google 'Charlie Watts Jewish' unless you want to read incoherent rants from deeply unsavoury people.)
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
Rollin92
()
Date: March 19, 2013 13:15
Keith and Brian both have Welsh ancestry, Keith's paternal grandparents were Welsh.
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
beepee2
()
Date: March 19, 2013 13:18
Quote
Send It To me
Although it commonly defined as ethnic-religious designation, I always maintain that it's a religion, not an ethnicity. If you don't have Jewish beliefs, you're not Jewish.
Wrong. The criteria for being eligible to make your Aliyah is not to "believe", it is to have a Jewish mother (the only line which is safe has there can still be a doubt on the father).
So it IS definitely an ethnicity and something passed through blood...
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
beepee2
()
Date: March 19, 2013 13:25
Quote
MathijsQuote
71Tele
True, but actually there is Jewish DNA. Turns out that something like 80% of the people who have the surname "Cohen" (or variant) have common DNA that ties them together. I happen to be one and I find that interesting.
That seems impossible, as within five generations DNA is diluted to less than 3%. The relationship between you and your grand-grand-father is about as close as the relation between you and me.
Mathijs
Wrong, scientists just used DNA from Richard'iii maternal descents to confirm that was him. There's definitely a DNA proximity, and police can tell just by the DNA if someone is from a certain race or not...
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
beepee2
()
Date: March 19, 2013 13:28
Quote
RedlandsRodge
Keith made it clear enough years ago when being interviewed on TV: "We're all African".
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
dead.flowers
()
Date: March 19, 2013 15:45
yep, he must have read it in some book ...
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
beepee2
()
Date: March 19, 2013 16:02
He's wrong, we're all unicellular algae, because we all come from the ocean !
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
stonehearted
()
Date: March 19, 2013 18:45
Quote
beepee2
He's wrong, we're all unicellular algae, because we all come from the ocean !
Even further back than that actually....
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: March 19, 2013 18:53
Quote
beepee2
He's wrong, we're all unicellular algae, because we all come from the ocean !
We are stardust.
Re: Keith's ethnic origins
Posted by:
latebloomer
()
Date: March 19, 2013 19:52
Quote
His MajestyQuote
beepee2
He's wrong, we're all unicellular algae, because we all come from the ocean !
We are stardust.
All we are is dust in the wind.
This Thread has been closed
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