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No way the latter era songs would ever have become classics, for the simple fact that they are simply not good enough. Classic songs are classic as they are original (and of course: very good). Original music inspires development. The latter day Stones music is all inspired on their own, orginal classic music.
In this sense, the Rolling Stones as they are since '90 or so simply is the Most Expensive Tribute Band in the World.
And the classics of the early 70's would not be classics in the 90's: they would be considered old fashioned. But play Brown Sugar with more distorted guitars, a 5/4 drum pattern and angry vocals and it would have been the biggest grunge hit ever in '91.
Mathijs
Thing is: only the Stones could have written BS in '69 (and release it in '71), whereas dozens and dozens of bands could have written Love is Strong in '93 -but never would have done because it was done-to-death-don't-go-there-open-G-Stones-teritoria.
Mathijs
And - to no surprise - most bands stop any kind of musical development after the first 10 years or so. That's not a Stones problem, but a problem for most bands.
Quite right. If the latter day tracks were as good as this thread implies, then they would had been popular (a prerequisite to becoming 'classic) at the time they were released - '89, '94, '97, '02 (snicker) and '05 (BAHHAHAHA!!!), which they were not. Because they are not good. They would have been tossed aside like the lifeless tracks they are in the 70's as they were in the 80's, 90's and '00s.
ie; Rough Justice didn't chart for any other reason than... it's NOT a good radio song. No melody, no hooks, nothing other than lazy songwriting wrapped in knee-jerk self-derivative fake rock.
They simply haven't written a decent radio song, as a band, since Start Me Up in 1977. Only the most delusional fan-boys (aka 'suckers') would bother arguing this fact. Not unlike the people that insist the the Star Wars Prequels were 'decent movies'.
But fan-boys, don't let up on the over-worshipping; The Stones depend on that to fuel their mythos to justify their RIDICULOUS ticket prices and even more ludicrous merch machine.
Anyone who bought that wig-box thing or giant single or LP sets, I'm looking right at you.
[thepowergoats.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-05-09 00:04 by jamesfdouglas.
Very true, noughties. In my case I was always waiting for a Tattoo You II (I discovered the Stones with Tattoo You, it was my first Stones LP). Which never came...
Well sure, ou listen to VL more than IORR.
But fact is that in 2012 you are probably the only one listening to VL, whilst they still sell a million or so IORR albums per year....
Mathijs
That's a bit generous don't you think Mathijs? If they were selling that many a year, IORR would be in the top 5 selling albums of all time.
you are 100% right. I think the general level of songwriting is down, since 1985, but the catalogue since then is peppered with some absolutely magificent tracks.
I'm going out on a limb here, but I'd say that they could probably perform an entire concert of material released from Dirty Work on (as little as possible from Dirty Work please), that would be an amazing concert!
Both those albums are pretty much on par with each other. I seriously doubt IORR sells a million copies a year-maybe tens of thousands at most.
At the time of VL though the band stil had the ability to create interesting, challenging and creative music-unfortunately very little of it wound up on VL. IORR was the first album where the Stones sounded like they were self-consciously trying to make a "Stonesy-sounding album." Some of the experimentation of GHS remains: Time Waits For No One, Fingerprint File and Really Want to Be My Friend, with mixed results. The Stones seemed to be aiming for some kind of '90s Exile with VL but fell way short.
Max.....
Where does this godess live? Where to join her church?
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Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
lem motlow
()
Date: May 8, 2012 19:56
this is a great question because rock radio abandoned the stones from the 80s on while zep , aerosmith, the floyd and others were given huge play for YEARS.
dj's are forced to play songs off of a pre-written playlist from the main office of corporations who bought up hundreds of small radio stations around the country.[this is one of the many things that killed rock and roll but i wont go on and on about it...]
i'm sure if you had some of the hip old dj's making the choices alot of songs that we dismiss would be looked at in a different light.
off the top of my head-out of tears,definitely as good a song as angie.laugh,i nearly died is a masterpiece.back of my hand-a blues that couldve stood up on ANY stones album.
dj's are forced to play songs off of a pre-written playlist from the main office of corporations who bought up hundreds of small radio stations around the country.[this is one of the many things that killed rock and roll but i wont go on and on about it...]
i'm sure if you had some of the hip old dj's making the choices alot of songs that we dismiss would be looked at in a different light.
off the top of my head-out of tears,definitely as good a song as angie.laugh,i nearly died is a masterpiece.back of my hand-a blues that couldve stood up on ANY stones album.
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: May 8, 2012 20:02
Quote
emotionalbarbecueQuote
Mathijs
The latter day tracks are not classics because they are not classics. Would they have been released in the 70's the Stones would have disappeared from the scene, just like most bands disappeared when the quality dropped after a couple of good albums. The only reason why the Stones could do the major tours of the 90’s and 00’s is because they are an institution. It certainly wasn’t due to the quality of studio material released.
Mathijs
Good point...
But it is not possible to know wether these songs would have reached the status of classics.
More importantly (and also impossible to know). would the official classics have been acknowledged as such if they would have been released during the last decade for example?.....I think that no, they would not.
No way the latter era songs would ever have become classics, for the simple fact that they are simply not good enough. Classic songs are classic as they are original (and of course: very good). Original music inspires development. The latter day Stones music is all inspired on their own, orginal classic music.
In this sense, the Rolling Stones as they are since '90 or so simply is the Most Expensive Tribute Band in the World.
And the classics of the early 70's would not be classics in the 90's: they would be considered old fashioned. But play Brown Sugar with more distorted guitars, a 5/4 drum pattern and angry vocals and it would have been the biggest grunge hit ever in '91.
Mathijs
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
Send It To me
()
Date: May 8, 2012 20:20
News item, haters: THIS IS AN EPIC TRACK
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
lem motlow
()
Date: May 8, 2012 21:37
mathijs,by saying "classics of the early 70s wouldnt be classics in the 90s" you're sort of agreeing with the original posters premise that songs can be looked at in a different way because of the era in which they were released.
if brown sugar came out in 97 and received no airplay,was thought of as just some of the same old stones crap would that make it a different song?
i have no doubt that if love is strong came out in 73 when the band was on fire we would be talking about how great the guitar sound was back then and what a great riff it was...and be asking why cant they make songs like that now
if brown sugar came out in 97 and received no airplay,was thought of as just some of the same old stones crap would that make it a different song?
i have no doubt that if love is strong came out in 73 when the band was on fire we would be talking about how great the guitar sound was back then and what a great riff it was...and be asking why cant they make songs like that now
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
noughties
()
Date: May 8, 2012 21:38
I boycotted Grunge by every possible means the time it happened, by simply being indifferent. After all it is 90s music, therefore not accepted by me.
Here are some classics, and fersure would have been in the 70s:
HEARTS FOR SALE
I GO WILD
LOVE IS STRONG
LOW DOWN
IT WONT TAKE LONG
DANGEROUS BEAUTY
Here are some classics, and fersure would have been in the 70s:
HEARTS FOR SALE
I GO WILD
LOVE IS STRONG
LOW DOWN
IT WONT TAKE LONG
DANGEROUS BEAUTY
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
GJV
()
Date: May 8, 2012 21:51
Rough Justice was not a singel.
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: May 8, 2012 22:08
Quote
lem motlow
mathijs,by saying "classics of the early 70s wouldnt be classics in the 90s" you're sort of agreeing with the original posters premise that songs can be looked at in a different way because of the era in which they were released.
if brown sugar came out in 97 and received no airplay,was thought of as just some of the same old stones crap would that make it a different song?
i have no doubt that if love is strong came out in 73 when the band was on fire we would be talking about how great the guitar sound was back then and what a great riff it was...and be asking why cant they make songs like that now
Thing is: only the Stones could have written BS in '69 (and release it in '71), whereas dozens and dozens of bands could have written Love is Strong in '93 -but never would have done because it was done-to-death-don't-go-there-open-G-Stones-teritoria.
Mathijs
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
mtaylor
()
Date: May 8, 2012 23:28
No big science - most music from the 50-70'ies would be considered oldfashioned decades later played as it was in 50-70'ies.Quote
Mathijs
And the classics of the early 70's would not be classics in the 90's: they would be considered old fashioned. But play Brown Sugar with more distorted guitars, a 5/4 drum pattern and angry vocals and it would have been the biggest grunge hit ever in '91.
Mathijs
And - to no surprise - most bands stop any kind of musical development after the first 10 years or so. That's not a Stones problem, but a problem for most bands.
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
noughties
()
Date: May 8, 2012 23:44
mtaylor wrote:
"any kind of musical development"
Often this means a development to the worse(agressivness). Fans use to think bands should stick to their first style.
"any kind of musical development"
Often this means a development to the worse(agressivness). Fans use to think bands should stick to their first style.
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
jamesfdouglas
()
Date: May 9, 2012 00:00
Quote
Mathijs
The latter day tracks are not classics because they are not classics. Would they have been released in the 70's the Stones would have disappeared from the scene, just like most bands disappeared when the quality dropped after a couple of good albums. The only reason why the Stones could do the major tours of the 90’s and 00’s is because they are an institution. It certainly wasn’t due to the quality of studio material released.
Mathijs
Quite right. If the latter day tracks were as good as this thread implies, then they would had been popular (a prerequisite to becoming 'classic) at the time they were released - '89, '94, '97, '02 (snicker) and '05 (BAHHAHAHA!!!), which they were not. Because they are not good. They would have been tossed aside like the lifeless tracks they are in the 70's as they were in the 80's, 90's and '00s.
ie; Rough Justice didn't chart for any other reason than... it's NOT a good radio song. No melody, no hooks, nothing other than lazy songwriting wrapped in knee-jerk self-derivative fake rock.
They simply haven't written a decent radio song, as a band, since Start Me Up in 1977. Only the most delusional fan-boys (aka 'suckers') would bother arguing this fact. Not unlike the people that insist the the Star Wars Prequels were 'decent movies'.
But fan-boys, don't let up on the over-worshipping; The Stones depend on that to fuel their mythos to justify their RIDICULOUS ticket prices and even more ludicrous merch machine.
Anyone who bought that wig-box thing or giant single or LP sets, I'm looking right at you.
[thepowergoats.com]
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-05-09 00:04 by jamesfdouglas.
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
Stoneage
()
Date: May 9, 2012 00:01
Quote
noughties
Fans use to think bands should stick to their first style.
Very true, noughties. In my case I was always waiting for a Tattoo You II (I discovered the Stones with Tattoo You, it was my first Stones LP). Which never came...
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
Send It To me
()
Date: May 9, 2012 00:03
I maintain that It's Only Rock N' Roll is a very, very mediocre record for the Stones (Except for the first three tracks) - I listen to Voodoo Lounge and A Bigger Bang more than IORR. Yet, the simple advantage of it being released in '74 elevates it.
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
Honestman
()
Date: May 9, 2012 00:37
Solo Works
Take It So Hard
Locked Away
Rockawhile
Ain't Rock'n'roll
Knock Yer Teeth out
Wired All Night
Mother Of A Man
Will But You Won't
Wicked As It Seems
Stones
Mean Disposition
Too Tight
Driving Too Fast
HMN
Take It So Hard
Locked Away
Rockawhile
Ain't Rock'n'roll
Knock Yer Teeth out
Wired All Night
Mother Of A Man
Will But You Won't
Wicked As It Seems
Stones
Mean Disposition
Too Tight
Driving Too Fast
HMN
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: May 9, 2012 00:54
BLUE
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: May 9, 2012 01:02
Quote
Send It To me
I maintain that It's Only Rock N' Roll is a very, very mediocre record for the Stones (Except for the first three tracks) - I listen to Voodoo Lounge and A Bigger Bang more than IORR. Yet, the simple advantage of it being released in '74 elevates it.
Well sure, ou listen to VL more than IORR.
But fact is that in 2012 you are probably the only one listening to VL, whilst they still sell a million or so IORR albums per year....
Mathijs
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
Laughingsam
()
Date: May 9, 2012 01:27
Hey I still listen to Voodoo Lounge in 2012!
Although I'd NEVER argue it's as good as anything they did in their classic period, it's still an enjoyable album with what I consider to be 6 good songs:
Love Is Strong
You Got Me Rocking
The Worst
Out Of Tears
Blinded By Rainbows
Thru and Thru
People are so damn hard to please and I guess Stones fans are no exception. I like a lot of their latter day stuff, regardless of how it sells.
Although I'd NEVER argue it's as good as anything they did in their classic period, it's still an enjoyable album with what I consider to be 6 good songs:
Love Is Strong
You Got Me Rocking
The Worst
Out Of Tears
Blinded By Rainbows
Thru and Thru
People are so damn hard to please and I guess Stones fans are no exception. I like a lot of their latter day stuff, regardless of how it sells.
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: May 9, 2012 01:40
Quote
MathijsQuote
Send It To me
I maintain that It's Only Rock N' Roll is a very, very mediocre record for the Stones (Except for the first three tracks) - I listen to Voodoo Lounge and A Bigger Bang more than IORR. Yet, the simple advantage of it being released in '74 elevates it.
Well sure, ou listen to VL more than IORR.
But fact is that in 2012 you are probably the only one listening to VL, whilst they still sell a million or so IORR albums per year....
Mathijs
That's a bit generous don't you think Mathijs? If they were selling that many a year, IORR would be in the top 5 selling albums of all time.
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
Slick
()
Date: May 9, 2012 01:41
as-is? not a single one.
produced old school stones style and not vegas style?
there may be a couple, but you really have to stretch the imagination.
produced old school stones style and not vegas style?
there may be a couple, but you really have to stretch the imagination.
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
Max'sKansasCity
()
Date: May 9, 2012 01:49
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
theanchorman
()
Date: May 9, 2012 03:05
Quote
Pink Floyds's Division Bell could be an absolutely classic album if it were release in 1977 instead 1994[/quote
C'mon now...
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
stonesdan60
()
Date: May 9, 2012 09:21
Regarding the point that even the best latter day Stones tunes don't deserve "classic" status because they didn't sell and become hits, I feel that's missing a huge point. Earlier Stones tunes became hits for more than one reason. They were good songs AND "hit" radio was playing that style of music back then. In more recent days the Stones have done lots of songs that would have surely gotten airplay in the seventies but in recent times, radio is not playing Stones-type music, thus it's pretty much impossible for the Stones to have had a "hit" lately no matter how good the song. They could hypothetically come up with something as good as their biggest hits of yore and it would never become a hit today because radio wouldn't play it. However, to Stones fans, their music should be judged on it's own merits, not how many copies it sold in a market that doesn't play their music anymore. Thus, to me, a song like Out Of Tears ranks as a classic because it's good. I'm sure loads of latter day Stones songs would get heavy FM radio play if they came out in the seventies.
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: May 9, 2012 20:09
Quote
stonesdan60
Regarding the point that even the best latter day Stones tunes don't deserve "classic" status because they didn't sell and become hits, I feel that's missing a huge point. Earlier Stones tunes became hits for more than one reason. They were good songs AND "hit" radio was playing that style of music back then. In more recent days the Stones have done lots of songs that would have surely gotten airplay in the seventies but in recent times, radio is not playing Stones-type music, thus it's pretty much impossible for the Stones to have had a "hit" lately no matter how good the song. They could hypothetically come up with something as good as their biggest hits of yore and it would never become a hit today because radio wouldn't play it. However, to Stones fans, their music should be judged on it's own merits, not how many copies it sold in a market that doesn't play their music anymore. Thus, to me, a song like Out Of Tears ranks as a classic because it's good. I'm sure loads of latter day Stones songs would get heavy FM radio play if they came out in the seventies.
you are 100% right. I think the general level of songwriting is down, since 1985, but the catalogue since then is peppered with some absolutely magificent tracks.
I'm going out on a limb here, but I'd say that they could probably perform an entire concert of material released from Dirty Work on (as little as possible from Dirty Work please), that would be an amazing concert!
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
noughties
()
Date: May 9, 2012 20:36
quoute treaclefingers:
"I'm going out on a limb here, but I'd say that they could probably perform an entire concert of material released from Dirty Work on (as little as possible from Dirty Work please), that would be an amazing concert!"
Yeah, and how nice wouldn`t that be! A diehard`s dream! I really can`t see why people should feel cheated. It`s all music in the same vein as the warhorses!
"I'm going out on a limb here, but I'd say that they could probably perform an entire concert of material released from Dirty Work on (as little as possible from Dirty Work please), that would be an amazing concert!"
Yeah, and how nice wouldn`t that be! A diehard`s dream! I really can`t see why people should feel cheated. It`s all music in the same vein as the warhorses!
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
jamesfdouglas
()
Date: May 9, 2012 21:04
Quote
theanchormanQuote
Pink Floyds's Division Bell could be an absolutely classic album if it were release in 1977 instead 1994[/quote
C'mon now...
Bahahahahaha!!!!!
Everyone's first thought would be "Where the f@#$ is Roger???"
[thepowergoats.com]
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: May 9, 2012 21:08
You might notice I started a thread on it...lots of great material I think.Quote
noughties
quoute treaclefingers:
"I'm going out on a limb here, but I'd say that they could probably perform an entire concert of material released from Dirty Work on (as little as possible from Dirty Work please), that would be an amazing concert!"
Yeah, and how nice wouldn`t that be! A diehard`s dream! I really can`t see why people should feel cheated. It`s all music in the same vein as the warhorses!
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
big4
()
Date: May 9, 2012 23:24
Quote
MathijsQuote
Send It To me
I maintain that It's Only Rock N' Roll is a very, very mediocre record for the Stones (Except for the first three tracks) - I listen to Voodoo Lounge and A Bigger Bang more than IORR. Yet, the simple advantage of it being released in '74 elevates it.
Well sure, ou listen to VL more than IORR.
But fact is that in 2012 you are probably the only one listening to VL, whilst they still sell a million or so IORR albums per year....
Mathijs
Both those albums are pretty much on par with each other. I seriously doubt IORR sells a million copies a year-maybe tens of thousands at most.
At the time of VL though the band stil had the ability to create interesting, challenging and creative music-unfortunately very little of it wound up on VL. IORR was the first album where the Stones sounded like they were self-consciously trying to make a "Stonesy-sounding album." Some of the experimentation of GHS remains: Time Waits For No One, Fingerprint File and Really Want to Be My Friend, with mixed results. The Stones seemed to be aiming for some kind of '90s Exile with VL but fell way short.
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
emotionalbarbecue
()
Date: May 11, 2012 13:28
Quote
Max'sKansasCity
Max.....
Where does this godess live? Where to join her church?
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: May 11, 2012 13:34
Quote
GJV
Rough Justice was not a singel.
Yes it was:
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
billwebster
()
Date: May 11, 2012 13:41
Out Of Focus *
Saint Of Me
Too Tight
Jump On Top Of Me
Throwaway *
Don't Stop
She Saw Me Coming
Love Is Strong
Let's Make It Up *
Evening Gown *
Eileen *
Put Me In the Trash*
Sad Sad Sad
Hang On To Me Tonight *
I guess there are more even but it's kind of hard to decide when you (or rather I) haven't been listening to the radio in the 70s (a/k/a "late borner")
Oops, Ronnie's solo songs are also allowed:
Testify *
Like It *
It Must Be Love *
This Little Heart *
(I'm not sure what to pick from his latest release though).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-05-11 13:44 by billwebster.
Saint Of Me
Too Tight
Jump On Top Of Me
Throwaway *
Don't Stop
She Saw Me Coming
Love Is Strong
Let's Make It Up *
Evening Gown *
Eileen *
Put Me In the Trash*
Sad Sad Sad
Hang On To Me Tonight *
I guess there are more even but it's kind of hard to decide when you (or rather I) haven't been listening to the radio in the 70s (a/k/a "late borner")
Oops, Ronnie's solo songs are also allowed:
Testify *
Like It *
It Must Be Love *
This Little Heart *
(I'm not sure what to pick from his latest release though).
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-05-11 13:44 by billwebster.
Re: late era songs that would've been radio classics if released in the 70's
Posted by:
leteyer
()
Date: May 11, 2012 16:20
I would think any of the ballads....
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