Tell Me :
Talk
Still, he went on touring with Jack Bruce, with a bus full of heroin...
He looks good here, in spite of the heroin use. When did his looks begin to go way downhill?
When he got older, just like your looks and mine won't improve as time goes by.
Speak for yourself!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-04-27 17:34 by 71Tele.
Yep.
Just read the relevant pages in Bill's book last night. Mick T was really weirded out and was leaving screwed up notes all over the place that had Bill worried about him.
Well, wait and see, Tele! Or do you mean that Bliss will be looking better and better as time goes by. The contrary so to say of that famous sentence in Time Waits For Now One, about time destroying a woman's face (what a tragedy for the ladies!).
Unfortunately, I do not need to wait, dear Kleermaker. The ravages of time have worked their way into my mid-section.
By the way, I went to Amsterdam last November and took a walk down a side street. One of the first things I saw was a little shop with a sign saying "Kleermaker"!
Which book? Stone Alone or Rolling with the Stones?
Thanks.
-R
Funny that's just where the cheap South American cocaine seemed to be moving to at the same time. Coincidence? Probably not. lol peace
Tele, kleermaker is Dutch for tailor.
But you know the saying: old taylorites never die.
Yes, I knew that (maybe the only word of Dutch I know, thanks to you). It was just cool to see that sign.
He looks really good here, and it would seem he was using heroin for quite some time. Right now, he does not look good for his age. At what point did the drugs (and alcohol?) begin to take their toll?
1) When does substance abuse start to take a toll? The short
answer is "when you stop". The long answer is more complicated.
2) First of all, when you're talking about youngish people,
there are two kinds of substance abusers. The kind that
function better in some important ways on stuff, and the
kind that function worse. For the kind that function worse,
significant damage is more or less immediate. Their use of
stuff is simply an expression of a death wish, a slow suicide
of sorts.
3) The more common and more interesting cases are people who
function better (socially, sexually and/or artistically).
Even here, we have to make an exception for the heavy use of
speed and crack, which are so physically ravaging in such
short order, that any functional gains are very short-lived.
Habitual use of speed or crack also has to be viewed as a form
of attempted suicide.
4) So now we're down to the people who really enjoy their vices.
For a while, and maybe a long while, they are genuinely happier,
or if you prefer, genuinely less unhappy. With stuff in their
lives, they look better, they feel better, they are cooler and
more inspired. In short, they are successfully self-medicating.
5) Of course over the longer haul, all these medications, even
weed, can have serious side-effects if overused. And once these
side effects are more prevalent than the benefits, a killer
catch-22 takes effect. If you continue with the substance,
the side effects will get ya. And if you stop, the loss of
your medication will tend to wreck ya, literally. Your metabolism
slows and the aging process accelerates.
6) At this point, you can go on prescription drugs instead, which
might seem to help for a while. But don't. They're as bad if not worse
than the illicit variety.
7) Go on pure foods, superfoods, fluoride-free water, exercise,
and psychotherapy. Red wine, a little weed for sex. And you too can
be as fit and energetic in your early sixties as you were in your
early thirties. And getting as much hot tail.
Heavenlike indeed. And very secure player, no bum notes , meaning no "where am i gonna go now with this solo or lick" that you hear on Ronnie. And Ronnie was great in 1975 but maybe a little more focus on playing would have been good.
SO why did Taylor leave?
Theory: Keith wanted him out, he had already made way for Ronnie and forced Ronnie on Jagger more or less. Jagger wrote songs and functioned very well with Taylor which is why Taylor got hurt when he was promised co-writing credits for two songs and got none. Naive to think he would get any but seems he was promised this. I dont think Jagger wanted him out - this looks like the act of Keith.
Jagger probably saw the PR potential in Ronnie, he looked like a Stone and could take Keiths place on the stage. Jagger and Ronnie seems to go on well up until about 1978. And Ronnie didnt replace Taylor, he joined Keith and Mick. With Billy and Ollie and on SFTD they could replace a Taylor with Clapton, Santana and Jesse.
Didnt Jagger want Ronnie out by 1981?
No one´s called "wever" here?
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
Palace Revolution 2000
()
Date: April 27, 2012 11:34
Saw him in late 80's up and down East Coast with a band of never heard ofs. We opened for him at one show, and I was so excited to be opening for a Rolling Stone. Turned out to be a total lifeless dud - the entire affair. Audience, MT, meeting him..
the back brace story by tomk does not surprise me.
the back brace story by tomk does not surprise me.
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
tomcasagranda
()
Date: April 27, 2012 11:44
Wasn't it a case of out of the frying pan into the fire ? Mick left the Stones to work with Jack Bruce, who was, circa 1975, a heavy heroin user ?
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: April 27, 2012 11:51
If you know people on heroin, you'll quickly see it. Taylor looks hooked at this point already:
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
stonesdan60
()
Date: April 27, 2012 13:05
In an interview from the last year or so, Taylor conceeded that his struggles with drugs were the real reason he left the Stones. He couldn't get clean being surrounded by rampant drug use, especially with Keith, and he believed he would end up dead if didn't get away from the Stones so he could get off drugs. Mick Jagger suggested he just take six months off, get clean and come back. Taylor said he didn't think he could handle the temptations even if he came back clean. Of course he did continue to struggle in the years after as well. Interesting how he joined the Stones as a clean living guy and apparently took up the habits of those who were all around him. Who could be with Keith Richards all the time and not be tempted to try his vices? Few can survive that kind of life.
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: April 27, 2012 14:57
Quote
stonesdan60
In an interview from the last year or so, Taylor conceeded that his struggles with drugs were the real reason he left the Stones. He couldn't get clean being surrounded by rampant drug use, especially with Keith, and he believed he would end up dead if didn't get away from the Stones so he could get off drugs. Mick Jagger suggested he just take six months off, get clean and come back. Taylor said he didn't think he could handle the temptations even if he came back clean. Of course he did continue to struggle in the years after as well. Interesting how he joined the Stones as a clean living guy and apparently took up the habits of those who were all around him. Who could be with Keith Richards all the time and not be tempted to try his vices? Few can survive that kind of life.
Still, he went on touring with Jack Bruce, with a bus full of heroin...
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
dcba
()
Date: April 27, 2012 15:36
Nick Kent who was around the band in 74-75 said MT quit because it seemed obvious that the Stones were finished (and keith would die ODing soon).
IORR was their worst album to date, the atmosphere within the band was bad, and the Stones had been going on 11 years already... (an unbelievable amount of time by rock standards of the 70's)
So MT thought it was wise to leave a sinking ship (the Stones) to join a rising and promising new superband that would propel him to new highs (pun intended) : Jack Bruce's...
Vae Victis, Mick T.!
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2012-04-27 15:42 by dcba.
IORR was their worst album to date, the atmosphere within the band was bad, and the Stones had been going on 11 years already... (an unbelievable amount of time by rock standards of the 70's)
So MT thought it was wise to leave a sinking ship (the Stones) to join a rising and promising new superband that would propel him to new highs (pun intended) : Jack Bruce's...
Vae Victis, Mick T.!
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2012-04-27 15:42 by dcba.
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
Bliss
()
Date: April 27, 2012 15:56
Quote
DandelionPowderman
If you know people on heroin, you'll quickly see it. Taylor looks hooked at this point already:
He looks good here, in spite of the heroin use. When did his looks begin to go way downhill?
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
DiscoVolante
()
Date: April 27, 2012 16:27
When (and why) did he start gaining weight? Use of medication?
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
CousinC
()
Date: April 27, 2012 16:27
The drugs hadn't much to do with his leaving.It's more like DCBA (and Kent) said.
If it was just because of the drugs he wouldn't have joined with Jack Bruce who was at that time even more addicted to heroin and coke.
If it was just because of the drugs he wouldn't have joined with Jack Bruce who was at that time even more addicted to heroin and coke.
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: April 27, 2012 16:45
Quote
BlissQuote
DandelionPowderman
If you know people on heroin, you'll quickly see it. Taylor looks hooked at this point already:
He looks good here, in spite of the heroin use. When did his looks begin to go way downhill?
When he got older, just like your looks and mine won't improve as time goes by.
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: April 27, 2012 17:33
Quote
kleermaker
When he got older, just like your looks and mine won't improve as time goes by.
Speak for yourself!
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-04-27 17:34 by 71Tele.
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
GravityBoy
()
Date: April 27, 2012 17:37
Quote
theanchorman
It would seem like he started fooling around with H during the making of Exile...
Yep.
Just read the relevant pages in Bill's book last night. Mick T was really weirded out and was leaving screwed up notes all over the place that had Bill worried about him.
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: April 27, 2012 18:43
Quote
71TeleQuote
kleermaker
When he got older, just like your looks and mine won't improve as time goes by.
Speak for yourself!
Well, wait and see, Tele! Or do you mean that Bliss will be looking better and better as time goes by. The contrary so to say of that famous sentence in Time Waits For Now One, about time destroying a woman's face (what a tragedy for the ladies!).
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: April 27, 2012 18:53
Quote
kleermakerQuote
71TeleQuote
kleermaker
When he got older, just like your looks and mine won't improve as time goes by.
Speak for yourself!
Well, wait and see, Tele! Or do you mean that Bliss will be looking better and better as time goes by. The contrary so to say of that famous sentence in Time Waits For Now One, about time destroying a woman's face (what a tragedy for the ladies!).
Unfortunately, I do not need to wait, dear Kleermaker. The ravages of time have worked their way into my mid-section.
By the way, I went to Amsterdam last November and took a walk down a side street. One of the first things I saw was a little shop with a sign saying "Kleermaker"!
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
Reagan
()
Date: April 27, 2012 19:18
Quote
GravityBoyQuote
theanchorman
It would seem like he started fooling around with H during the making of Exile...
Yep.
Just read the relevant pages in Bill's book last night. Mick T was really weirded out and was leaving screwed up notes all over the place that had Bill worried about him.
Which book? Stone Alone or Rolling with the Stones?
Thanks.
-R
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
GravityBoy
()
Date: April 27, 2012 19:27
Rolling with the Stones.
Mick went all quiet and was saying things like "I'm so alone".
Mick went all quiet and was saying things like "I'm so alone".
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: April 27, 2012 20:27
Quote
Mathijs
I thought Taylor moved to LA in '80 or so, and left to New York in '87, if I recall correctly. They seem to all live and move to the same cities in those days -Wood, Ian MacLagan, Don Johnson, Taylor, Bobby Keys, Anita Pallenberg.
Mathijs
Funny that's just where the cheap South American cocaine seemed to be moving to at the same time. Coincidence? Probably not. lol peace
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: April 27, 2012 22:00
Quote
71TeleQuote
kleermakerQuote
71TeleQuote
kleermaker
When he got older, just like your looks and mine won't improve as time goes by.
Speak for yourself!
Well, wait and see, Tele! Or do you mean that Bliss will be looking better and better as time goes by. The contrary so to say of that famous sentence in Time Waits For Now One, about time destroying a woman's face (what a tragedy for the ladies!).
Unfortunately, I do not need to wait, dear Kleermaker. The ravages of time have worked their way into my mid-section.
By the way, I went to Amsterdam last November and took a walk down a side street. One of the first things I saw was a little shop with a sign saying "Kleermaker"!
Tele, kleermaker is Dutch for tailor.
But you know the saying: old taylorites never die.
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: April 27, 2012 22:42
Quote
kleermakerQuote
71TeleQuote
kleermakerQuote
71TeleQuote
kleermaker
When he got older, just like your looks and mine won't improve as time goes by.
Speak for yourself!
Well, wait and see, Tele! Or do you mean that Bliss will be looking better and better as time goes by. The contrary so to say of that famous sentence in Time Waits For Now One, about time destroying a woman's face (what a tragedy for the ladies!).
Unfortunately, I do not need to wait, dear Kleermaker. The ravages of time have worked their way into my mid-section.
By the way, I went to Amsterdam last November and took a walk down a side street. One of the first things I saw was a little shop with a sign saying "Kleermaker"!
Tele, kleermaker is Dutch for tailor.
But you know the saying: old taylorites never die.
Yes, I knew that (maybe the only word of Dutch I know, thanks to you). It was just cool to see that sign.
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
kleermaker
()
Date: April 28, 2012 00:59
Quote
71TeleQuote
kleermakerQuote
71TeleQuote
kleermakerQuote
71TeleQuote
kleermaker
When he got older, just like your looks and mine won't improve as time goes by.
Speak for yourself!
Well, wait and see, Tele! Or do you mean that Bliss will be looking better and better as time goes by. The contrary so to say of that famous sentence in Time Waits For Now One, about time destroying a woman's face (what a tragedy for the ladies!).
Unfortunately, I do not need to wait, dear Kleermaker. The ravages of time have worked their way into my mid-section.
By the way, I went to Amsterdam last November and took a walk down a side street. One of the first things I saw was a little shop with a sign saying "Kleermaker"!
Tele, kleermaker is Dutch for tailor.
But you know the saying: old taylorites never die.
Yes, I knew that (maybe the only word of Dutch I know, thanks to you). It was just cool to see that sign.
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
pmk251
()
Date: April 28, 2012 01:08
Speaking of Taylor in LA...He played the Troubadour in '00. I said "Hi" to Jeff Allen and as usual I ended up buying the beer (I don not mind). We were chatting when Taylor came up and wanted to introduce Jeff to someone (sorry, I did not catch the name). Jeff was surprised. "You know him?" Taylor responded "Yes, I lived here for 2 years" (I believe it was 2). It was a nice night for Taylor. He was upbeat, perhaps actually excited. Lots of friends showed up to say Hi. One of them was Carla Olson who wanted to talk to Mick about a project that I think ended up being The Ring of Truth CD. I will repeat a story she told me that has something to do with Southern California.
In September '91 Carla and Mick were to play a club in the Santa Barbara area that was going out of business. The place was a dump. There was no sound equipment or no one to man the sound equipment...whatever. Mick was depressed. It so happened that the guy who was mixed "snakes" came by. The studio was in Santa Barbara. He either had the equipment or could run the board, so the show was a go. Carla said she gave Mick a pep talk and on they went. She said there was a small but enthusiastic crowd. She said the place ran out of liquor. She said that night Mick played the best guitar she ever heard. The band finished the set, but was urged to play on. They were trying to find more songs they knew how to play. It sounds like a great night! She said she saw an older man recording the show. To my knowledge no recording of that show has ever surfaced. Carla said she would LOVE to hear it. So would I.
In September '91 Carla and Mick were to play a club in the Santa Barbara area that was going out of business. The place was a dump. There was no sound equipment or no one to man the sound equipment...whatever. Mick was depressed. It so happened that the guy who was mixed "snakes" came by. The studio was in Santa Barbara. He either had the equipment or could run the board, so the show was a go. Carla said she gave Mick a pep talk and on they went. She said there was a small but enthusiastic crowd. She said the place ran out of liquor. She said that night Mick played the best guitar she ever heard. The band finished the set, but was urged to play on. They were trying to find more songs they knew how to play. It sounds like a great night! She said she saw an older man recording the show. To my knowledge no recording of that show has ever surfaced. Carla said she would LOVE to hear it. So would I.
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
Big Al
()
Date: April 28, 2012 01:17
Is Taylor usually this articulate and well-spoken? Heroin, perhaps?
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
Bliss
()
Date: April 28, 2012 01:44
Quote
kleermakerQuote
BlissQuote
DandelionPowderman
If you know people on heroin, you'll quickly see it. Taylor looks hooked at this point already:
He looks good here, in spite of the heroin use. When did his looks begin to go way downhill?
When he got older, just like your looks and mine won't improve as time goes by.
He looks really good here, and it would seem he was using heroin for quite some time. Right now, he does not look good for his age. At what point did the drugs (and alcohol?) begin to take their toll?
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: April 28, 2012 02:43
He looked dramatically worse in the videos for the IORR album.
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: April 28, 2012 03:40
... just listening Brussels and LA Friday... Man, that Taylor guy, doped or not, was a heavenlike player. Ronnie plays alright in '75 but that Taylorian x-factor in his solos and notes over-all is TERRIBLY missing. It is not the amount; it is the touch, the point, exact timing... I love the sound of '75, but prior that they were transcendental.
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012-04-28 03:43 by Doxa.
- Doxa
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012-04-28 03:43 by Doxa.
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
superrevvy
()
Date: April 28, 2012 03:42
Quote
Bliss
At what point did the drugs (and alcohol?) begin to take their toll?
1) When does substance abuse start to take a toll? The short
answer is "when you stop". The long answer is more complicated.
2) First of all, when you're talking about youngish people,
there are two kinds of substance abusers. The kind that
function better in some important ways on stuff, and the
kind that function worse. For the kind that function worse,
significant damage is more or less immediate. Their use of
stuff is simply an expression of a death wish, a slow suicide
of sorts.
3) The more common and more interesting cases are people who
function better (socially, sexually and/or artistically).
Even here, we have to make an exception for the heavy use of
speed and crack, which are so physically ravaging in such
short order, that any functional gains are very short-lived.
Habitual use of speed or crack also has to be viewed as a form
of attempted suicide.
4) So now we're down to the people who really enjoy their vices.
For a while, and maybe a long while, they are genuinely happier,
or if you prefer, genuinely less unhappy. With stuff in their
lives, they look better, they feel better, they are cooler and
more inspired. In short, they are successfully self-medicating.
5) Of course over the longer haul, all these medications, even
weed, can have serious side-effects if overused. And once these
side effects are more prevalent than the benefits, a killer
catch-22 takes effect. If you continue with the substance,
the side effects will get ya. And if you stop, the loss of
your medication will tend to wreck ya, literally. Your metabolism
slows and the aging process accelerates.
6) At this point, you can go on prescription drugs instead, which
might seem to help for a while. But don't. They're as bad if not worse
than the illicit variety.
7) Go on pure foods, superfoods, fluoride-free water, exercise,
and psychotherapy. Red wine, a little weed for sex. And you too can
be as fit and energetic in your early sixties as you were in your
early thirties. And getting as much hot tail.
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
Naturalust
()
Date: April 28, 2012 04:03
well put revvy, I can't argue with many points there, but I'd like to add an important one:
Addictive people can always trade their unhealthy addictions for ones which contribute to their well being. Some would say that addiction is bad in all it's forms but as some people will not ever make that change, addiction to health is the best thing going for them.
Case in point someone like James Taylor. seriously heroin addicted at one time, traded that addiction for health (in his case exercise and health food) and have come out looking and probably feeling superb in their later years.
Of course people who don't get that addiction , even the healthy one, can become defensive, mean and nasty just like the street junkie. It's nevcer too late. My personal favorite addictions are windsurfing and surfing, guitar playing, and chasing peak experiences and wild animal interactions in mother nature. If I don't get mine, I can be a bear to be around. peace
Addictive people can always trade their unhealthy addictions for ones which contribute to their well being. Some would say that addiction is bad in all it's forms but as some people will not ever make that change, addiction to health is the best thing going for them.
Case in point someone like James Taylor. seriously heroin addicted at one time, traded that addiction for health (in his case exercise and health food) and have come out looking and probably feeling superb in their later years.
Of course people who don't get that addiction , even the healthy one, can become defensive, mean and nasty just like the street junkie. It's nevcer too late. My personal favorite addictions are windsurfing and surfing, guitar playing, and chasing peak experiences and wild animal interactions in mother nature. If I don't get mine, I can be a bear to be around. peace
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
Max'sKansasCity
()
Date: April 28, 2012 07:56
Quote
Naturalust
Addictive people can always trade their unhealthy addictions for ones which contribute to their well being.
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: April 28, 2012 11:48
Quote
Doxa
... just listening Brussels and LA Friday... Man, that Taylor guy, doped or not, was a heavenlike player. Ronnie plays alright in '75 but that Taylorian x-factor in his solos and notes over-all is TERRIBLY missing. It is not the amount; it is the touch, the point, exact timing... I love the sound of '75, but prior that they were transcendental.
- Doxa
Heavenlike indeed. And very secure player, no bum notes , meaning no "where am i gonna go now with this solo or lick" that you hear on Ronnie. And Ronnie was great in 1975 but maybe a little more focus on playing would have been good.
SO why did Taylor leave?
Theory: Keith wanted him out, he had already made way for Ronnie and forced Ronnie on Jagger more or less. Jagger wrote songs and functioned very well with Taylor which is why Taylor got hurt when he was promised co-writing credits for two songs and got none. Naive to think he would get any but seems he was promised this. I dont think Jagger wanted him out - this looks like the act of Keith.
Jagger probably saw the PR potential in Ronnie, he looked like a Stone and could take Keiths place on the stage. Jagger and Ronnie seems to go on well up until about 1978. And Ronnie didnt replace Taylor, he joined Keith and Mick. With Billy and Ollie and on SFTD they could replace a Taylor with Clapton, Santana and Jesse.
Didnt Jagger want Ronnie out by 1981?
Re: Mick Taylor was on heroin too?
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: April 28, 2012 13:01
Quote
kleermakerQuote
71TeleQuote
kleermakerQuote
71TeleQuote
kleermaker
When he got older, just like your looks and mine won't improve as time goes by.
Speak for yourself!
Well, wait and see, Tele! Or do you mean that Bliss will be looking better and better as time goes by. The contrary so to say of that famous sentence in Time Waits For Now One, about time destroying a woman's face (what a tragedy for the ladies!).
Unfortunately, I do not need to wait, dear Kleermaker. The ravages of time have worked their way into my mid-section.
By the way, I went to Amsterdam last November and took a walk down a side street. One of the first things I saw was a little shop with a sign saying "Kleermaker"!
Tele, kleermaker is Dutch for tailor.
But you know the saying: old taylorites never die.
No one´s called "wever" here?
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