Tell Me :
Talk
Thanks! But my point is not what you put in bold print.
I didn't have any intention to make a difference between 'invent' and 'write'. It's the same to me -I don't know if the Satisfaction riff is 'written' or 'invented', that's basically semantics to me.
But, I don’t find the soundtrack Brian did a good example of Brian’s capabilities of ‘writing’. To me, it doesn’t go any further than standard R&B patterns with children’s songs melodies. All that the soundtrack shows to me is that Brian was Brian wasn’t a good writer. A gifted musician who brought an awful lot to the Stones, but not a writer in any sense.
Mathijs
And that's nothing to be ashamed of. The world is full of musicians like that. As a mather
of fact, I sometimes wonder if being a great instrumentalist makes one inadequate as a song
writer. See Eric Clapton, see David Gilmour, see Mick Taylor, see Jimmy Page, see Jeff Beck
(hey, that's a lot of Yardbirds). In my humble opinion these players needed material from others
to really shine.
Only Jimi Hendrix was an exception to this rule, probably.
Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away
Heh, Ronnie Wood has done almost ten solo albums with that method... Writing songs aren't any rocket science, actually...
- Doxa
Yeah but he used the almost same melody on Sittin on a fence. I re-read Wymans book and all those numbers and facts paint it black on white. Whatever Bill, Brian or someone else in the studio created everything was credited to Jagger/Richards - always. His example was the JJF riff that Mick and Keith liked and wanted to use.
Satisfaction is writing a song and rewriting when it come to the actual riff.
You can't seriously compare Wood's body of work with that Jones soundtrack, now can you.
Mathijs
Not in quantity but in quality, yes. And I find Brian's soundtrack musically speaking more interesting than Ronnie's body of work that I find extremily mediocre, obvious (full of cliches) and dull. No imagination there. In anything Brian Jones did he has a touch of authenticity and insight and the drive for making a point - that very special feature of musician - I don't find in any Ronnie's doings.
- Doxa
I just want to clarify myself that wih this comment I don't want by any means want to diss or belittle Ronnie's importance as a Rolling Stones guitarist or a Faces' "Keith Richards", but just to emphasize the extraordinarity of Brian Jones. Jones is the guy who belongs to the first class high profile musicians in the class of The Beatles, The Stones, Dylan, Hendrix... no Taylor, no Wood ever filled those shoes. I am sure Taylor or Wood would be the first to confirm that. Jagger and Richards, if their ego would allow that, too.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-04-27 20:25 by Doxa.
I think you are talking out of your bum.
Smells good, doesn't it.
But please post one piece of proper music longer than 30 seconds that actually shows that Jones was a decent writer.
Mathijs
I don't go by your silly rules.
Brian Jones wrote/created music, great unique music...
The above all feature Brian's writing/creativity, I could go on, there's lots of examples...
No, he just states that he took Keith's guitar part and played it with his sax. He jokes that he deserved a writing credit since the horns were such a big part of the song. That's all. By the way, it's a good book. Highly recommended.
-R
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: April 24, 2012 23:36
Quote
with sssoulQuote
RedhotcarpetQuote
Mathijs
I added some guitars to [HTW], but I didn't play the riffs that start it - that's Keith playing.
I played the country kind of influence on the rock licks between the verses.
- Mick Taylor, 1979, quoted on [www.timeisonourside.com]
... I dont know who did the intro riff I havent read any comments from Keith about the actual riff.
you seem to have missed the crucial bit above where Mick T tells us explicity who plays the intro,
so i've put it in bold print for you.
meanwhile, i know the Keith quote you probably have in mind about Mick T changing HTW -
it used to be on that same [www.timeisonourside.com] page, but it's been removed -
but Keith wasn't saying it was Mick T who turned it into a rock track.Quote
Redhotcarpet
I know [Keith] played a similar riff during the Satanic sessions so who knows. Until then its Keiths riff.
... don't know what you mean by "until then", but: right, it's Keith's
Thanks! But my point is not what you put in bold print.
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: April 27, 2012 11:28
Quote
His MajestyQuote
MathijsQuote
His MajestyQuote
KoenQuote
Mathijs
No, I really don't believe that at all. For somebody who basically hasn't written anything in his life
Except for the Last Time riff?
... and other important contributions.
Seems it's only writing when anyone, but Brian creates something.
There's quite a big difference in inventing riffs and throwing in ideas to writing melodies.
I have written plenty of guitar riffs, I have added several ideas while rehearsing or recording, but I have never written a proper song with a melody for a verse and a chorus.
Mathijs
People, including you, are badgering on about who wrote what riff. Keith wrote Satisfaction riff, but Brian invented The Last Time riff?See what I am saying?
Song writing is song writing, but Brian wrote/created music. He contributed greatly to the music of The Rolling Stones. He wrote a film score complete with melodies. Whether you like it or not has nothing to do with the fact there is a film score with his name on it.
What he did during the 7 or so years as a Rolling Stone deserves better than "For somebody who basically hasn't written anything in his life". Whether he wrote songs or not doesn't matter, but he did indeed write music.
I didn't have any intention to make a difference between 'invent' and 'write'. It's the same to me -I don't know if the Satisfaction riff is 'written' or 'invented', that's basically semantics to me.
But, I don’t find the soundtrack Brian did a good example of Brian’s capabilities of ‘writing’. To me, it doesn’t go any further than standard R&B patterns with children’s songs melodies. All that the soundtrack shows to me is that Brian was Brian wasn’t a good writer. A gifted musician who brought an awful lot to the Stones, but not a writer in any sense.
Mathijs
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
marcovandereijk
()
Date: April 27, 2012 11:50
Quote
Mathijs
A gifted musician who brought an awful lot to the [band], but not a writer in any sense.
And that's nothing to be ashamed of. The world is full of musicians like that. As a mather
of fact, I sometimes wonder if being a great instrumentalist makes one inadequate as a song
writer. See Eric Clapton, see David Gilmour, see Mick Taylor, see Jimmy Page, see Jeff Beck
(hey, that's a lot of Yardbirds). In my humble opinion these players needed material from others
to really shine.
Only Jimi Hendrix was an exception to this rule, probably.
Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: April 27, 2012 11:59
Quote
Mathijs
To me, it doesn’t go any further than standard R&B patterns with children’s songs melodies.
Mathijs
Heh, Ronnie Wood has done almost ten solo albums with that method... Writing songs aren't any rocket science, actually...
- Doxa
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: April 27, 2012 12:49
Quote
MathijsQuote
His MajestyQuote
MathijsQuote
His MajestyQuote
KoenQuote
Mathijs
No, I really don't believe that at all. For somebody who basically hasn't written anything in his life
Except for the Last Time riff?
... and other important contributions.
Seems it's only writing when anyone, but Brian creates something.
There's quite a big difference in inventing riffs and throwing in ideas to writing melodies.
I have written plenty of guitar riffs, I have added several ideas while rehearsing or recording, but I have never written a proper song with a melody for a verse and a chorus.
Mathijs
People, including you, are badgering on about who wrote what riff. Keith wrote Satisfaction riff, but Brian invented The Last Time riff?
Song writing is song writing, but Brian wrote/created music. He contributed greatly to the music of The Rolling Stones. He wrote a film score complete with melodies. Whether you like it or not has nothing to do with the fact there is a film score with his name on it.
What he did during the 7 or so years as a Rolling Stone deserves better than "For somebody who basically hasn't written anything in his life". Whether he wrote songs or not doesn't matter, but he did indeed write music.
I didn't have any intention to make a difference between 'invent' and 'write'. It's the same to me -I don't know if the Satisfaction riff is 'written' or 'invented', that's basically semantics to me.
But, I don’t find the soundtrack Brian did a good example of Brian’s capabilities of ‘writing’. To me, it doesn’t go any further than standard R&B patterns with children’s songs melodies. All that the soundtrack shows to me is that Brian was Brian wasn’t a good writer. A gifted musician who brought an awful lot to the Stones, but not a writer in any sense.
Mathijs
Yeah but he used the almost same melody on Sittin on a fence. I re-read Wymans book and all those numbers and facts paint it black on white. Whatever Bill, Brian or someone else in the studio created everything was credited to Jagger/Richards - always. His example was the JJF riff that Mick and Keith liked and wanted to use.
Satisfaction is writing a song and rewriting when it come to the actual riff.
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: April 27, 2012 15:33
Quote
DoxaQuote
Mathijs
To me, it doesn’t go any further than standard R&B patterns with children’s songs melodies.
Mathijs
Heh, Ronnie Wood has done almost ten solo albums with that method... Writing songs aren't any rocket science, actually...
- Doxa
You can't seriously compare Wood's body of work with that Jones soundtrack, now can you.
Mathijs
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: April 27, 2012 17:08
Quote
MathijsQuote
DoxaQuote
Mathijs
To me, it doesn’t go any further than standard R&B patterns with children’s songs melodies.
Mathijs
Heh, Ronnie Wood has done almost ten solo albums with that method... Writing songs aren't any rocket science, actually...
- Doxa
You can't seriously compare Wood's body of work with that Jones soundtrack, now can you.
Mathijs
Not in quantity but in quality, yes. And I find Brian's soundtrack musically speaking more interesting than Ronnie's body of work that I find extremily mediocre, obvious (full of cliches) and dull. No imagination there. In anything Brian Jones did he has a touch of authenticity and insight and the drive for making a point - that very special feature of musician - I don't find in any Ronnie's doings.
- Doxa
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
Doxa
()
Date: April 27, 2012 20:23
Quote
DoxaQuote
MathijsQuote
DoxaQuote
Mathijs
To me, it doesn’t go any further than standard R&B patterns with children’s songs melodies.
Mathijs
Heh, Ronnie Wood has done almost ten solo albums with that method... Writing songs aren't any rocket science, actually...
- Doxa
You can't seriously compare Wood's body of work with that Jones soundtrack, now can you.
Mathijs
Not in quantity but in quality, yes. And I find Brian's soundtrack musically speaking more interesting than Ronnie's body of work that I find extremily mediocre, obvious (full of cliches) and dull. No imagination there. In anything Brian Jones did he has a touch of authenticity and insight and the drive for making a point - that very special feature of musician - I don't find in any Ronnie's doings.
- Doxa
I just want to clarify myself that wih this comment I don't want by any means want to diss or belittle Ronnie's importance as a Rolling Stones guitarist or a Faces' "Keith Richards", but just to emphasize the extraordinarity of Brian Jones. Jones is the guy who belongs to the first class high profile musicians in the class of The Beatles, The Stones, Dylan, Hendrix... no Taylor, no Wood ever filled those shoes. I am sure Taylor or Wood would be the first to confirm that. Jagger and Richards, if their ego would allow that, too.
- Doxa
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-04-27 20:25 by Doxa.
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: April 28, 2012 16:12
Quote
MathijsQuote
His MajestyQuote
MathijsQuote
His MajestyQuote
KoenQuote
Mathijs
No, I really don't believe that at all. For somebody who basically hasn't written anything in his life
Except for the Last Time riff?
... and other important contributions.
Seems it's only writing when anyone, but Brian creates something.
There's quite a big difference in inventing riffs and throwing in ideas to writing melodies.
I have written plenty of guitar riffs, I have added several ideas while rehearsing or recording, but I have never written a proper song with a melody for a verse and a chorus.
Mathijs
People, including you, are badgering on about who wrote what riff. Keith wrote Satisfaction riff, but Brian invented The Last Time riff?
Song writing is song writing, but Brian wrote/created music. He contributed greatly to the music of The Rolling Stones. He wrote a film score complete with melodies. Whether you like it or not has nothing to do with the fact there is a film score with his name on it.
What he did during the 7 or so years as a Rolling Stone deserves better than "For somebody who basically hasn't written anything in his life". Whether he wrote songs or not doesn't matter, but he did indeed write music.
I didn't have any intention to make a difference between 'invent' and 'write'. It's the same to me -I don't know if the Satisfaction riff is 'written' or 'invented', that's basically semantics to me.
But, I don’t find the soundtrack Brian did a good example of Brian’s capabilities of ‘writing’. To me, it doesn’t go any further than standard R&B patterns with children’s songs melodies. All that the soundtrack shows to me is that Brian was Brian wasn’t a good writer. A gifted musician who brought an awful lot to the Stones, but not a writer in any sense.
Mathijs
I think you are talking out of your bum.
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
Mathijs
()
Date: May 1, 2012 20:04
Quote
His MajestyQuote
MathijsQuote
His MajestyQuote
MathijsQuote
His MajestyQuote
KoenQuote
Mathijs
No, I really don't believe that at all. For somebody who basically hasn't written anything in his life
Except for the Last Time riff?
... and other important contributions.
Seems it's only writing when anyone, but Brian creates something.
There's quite a big difference in inventing riffs and throwing in ideas to writing melodies.
I have written plenty of guitar riffs, I have added several ideas while rehearsing or recording, but I have never written a proper song with a melody for a verse and a chorus.
Mathijs
People, including you, are badgering on about who wrote what riff. Keith wrote Satisfaction riff, but Brian invented The Last Time riff?
Song writing is song writing, but Brian wrote/created music. He contributed greatly to the music of The Rolling Stones. He wrote a film score complete with melodies. Whether you like it or not has nothing to do with the fact there is a film score with his name on it.
What he did during the 7 or so years as a Rolling Stone deserves better than "For somebody who basically hasn't written anything in his life". Whether he wrote songs or not doesn't matter, but he did indeed write music.
I didn't have any intention to make a difference between 'invent' and 'write'. It's the same to me -I don't know if the Satisfaction riff is 'written' or 'invented', that's basically semantics to me.
But, I don’t find the soundtrack Brian did a good example of Brian’s capabilities of ‘writing’. To me, it doesn’t go any further than standard R&B patterns with children’s songs melodies. All that the soundtrack shows to me is that Brian was Brian wasn’t a good writer. A gifted musician who brought an awful lot to the Stones, but not a writer in any sense.
Mathijs
I think you are talking out of your bum.
Smells good, doesn't it.
But please post one piece of proper music longer than 30 seconds that actually shows that Jones was a decent writer.
Mathijs
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: May 3, 2012 06:44
Quote
Mathijs
please post one piece of proper music longer than 30 seconds that actually shows that Jones was a decent writer.
Mathijs
I don't go by your silly rules.
Brian Jones wrote/created music, great unique music...
The above all feature Brian's writing/creativity, I could go on, there's lots of examples...
Re: which of these are true about Jagger/Richards compositions?
Posted by:
Reagan
()
Date: May 3, 2012 07:43
Quote
Send It To me
Well, does Bobby claim he wrote the RIFF for Happy? Not clear at this point.
No, he just states that he took Keith's guitar part and played it with his sax. He jokes that he deserved a writing credit since the horns were such a big part of the song. That's all. By the way, it's a good book. Highly recommended.
-R
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