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Doxa

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Erik_Snow

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Doxa
3. PRIMITIVE COOL (yes!)

No...!!

Very underrated album, and a victim of many prejudices (and that of having born in the middle of WW3).. Lots of interesting things and musical adventures and Jagger widening his musical scope. The last time he actually tried something novel, and actually put himself on the table. Not should one horrible single track and a video ruin the whole album.

- Doxa

Well, to each his own, Doxa. I AM familiar with the record, I gotta say....I'm not "bashing" it just for the sake of it. Even though I played it "back then" without even knowing whether I liked it or not, it now it strikes me as the worst Jagger solo record together with Goddess in The Doorway.

She's The Boss on the other hand.....which is NOT a great album by any means BUT....it has some nice ideas, I think. Songs like Secrets, Half A Loaf and Lucky In Love (if it was edited) are OK pop songs. Just Another Night and Hard Woman are also OK.

But I can't find anything redeeming in Primitive Cool....apart from the first 30 seconds of Kow Tow, love those 30 seconds



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-24 22:28 by Erik_Snow.

Erik, I inspired to make an own thread to the lost treasure... See you there

- Doxa

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Doxa
Erik, I inspired to make an own thread to the lost treasure... See you there

- Doxa

Just made a post there. Sorry for not contributing more in that thread, than a one-sentence-post; but I didn't want to "spoil your thread" by getting into all the negative sides of Promitive Cool... ( =the 8 other songs)

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stonesrule
Great Post JamesFDouglas

Is PowerGoats your band?

If I were to play one track what should it be?

Glad you liked the post. Yes, I'm the lead singer and one of the guitarists for The Powergoats. All tracks are our 'babies' but I would say that our 'Stonesiest' track would be I Pretend They're All You.
[www.reverbnation.com]

[thepowergoats.com]

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wanderingspirit66
Perhaps the most apt description of Jagger's ambivalent relationship to the Stones that anyone on this board has come up

Thanks ws66, and you're right, he does have that dynamic with them. For instance how many times in vegas-era interviews have we heard (or read) Mick referring to the Stones as 'them'?

[thepowergoats.com]

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Doxa
But the umbrella trademark of The Stones, the nostalgy backed with Cohlian tours, was way too financially and egowise tempting option than that they could not have risk that income and glory by strictly following the muse. Jagger tried, but chickened.

- Doxa

You've got that right. That's what makes Wandering Spirit so special I think. It was a brief glimpse of true inspiration, Jagger doing what he does best without any creative filtering or contrivity.

[thepowergoats.com]

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Zack
I disagree with your post completely, JFD. You are implying that the rest of the Stones are some kind of millstone around Jagger's neck. I have never read there was going to be a WSII (and I read a lot about the Stones), what's your source? I can't believe anyone would think that the Stones should have broken up 20 years ago so Jagger could cultivate his solo career. Evening Gown is a great tune, love the line "people say I'm a drinker/but I'm sober half the time." WS is by far his best solo disc, but Jagger's solo career mostly sucks. None of the Stones albums after DW are bad, one, B2B is even great. You would rather that not exist in favor of more Jagger solo!? You really think Jagger's solo canon post WS would be better than SW, VL, B2B, and ABB? Not me.

They are absolutley a creative millstone around his neck simply because they don't function like they used to as a proper band anymore. As for WSII, I have read it several times, and I've been trying to find a source but to no avail (anyone esle who's heard this can help us out?).
I was speaking in a creative sense - only counting the release of new material, that they should have called it quits (Steel Wheels is over 20 years ago btw). I absolutely do think that Wandering Spirit is much better than anything The Stones have done since. By a long shot.

[thepowergoats.com]

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jamesfdouglas

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wanderingspirit66
Perhaps the most apt description of Jagger's ambivalent relationship to the Stones that anyone on this board has come up

Thanks ws66, and you're right, he does have that dynamic with them. For instance how many times in vegas-era interviews have we heard (or read) Mick referring to the Stones as 'them'?

Seemingly Mick has also adopted a way to write "for the Stones" along the yaers as well. That's quite closed shop in the sense what that supposed to sound like. I don't think he wrote during the 60's or 70's a certain Stones music or style in mind but instead just music whatever it might sound like. The Stones would then sound like that.

I think that partly explains the difference between two rather similar albums in stylewise - WANDERING SPIRIT and VOODOO LOUNGE. In WANDERING SPIRIT Jagger goes through various musical styles and genres and makes an unique, personal take on each. His realtion to music is direct - he thinks in terms of them, and sounds authentic. But in VOODOO LOUNGE the relation to music and diffferent styles is indirect - it is how The Stones would do then, that is, how they once have played those styles/genres. They are coping themselves. The effect is that wheras WANDERING SPIRIT sounds original and inspired piece of work, VOODOO LOUNGE sounds repitative and retro, The Stones going through the motions.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-25 01:12 by Doxa.

-



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-25 01:11 by DandelionPowderman.

JFDouglas,

Enjoyed the band, the sound, the song.
How long have you been together? Are you lead guitar? How often and where do you play?

I don't know if I'd consider "Pretend" super Stonesie but I generally like good rock and roll with intelligent lyrics and musicians that know how to connect with the audience. Not many of those around these days in Los Angeles,

My tastes run from Stones to Original Skynyrd to any good old blues players (I have become very proud that I actually saw Muddy Waters -- talk about presence.
Bob Seger, certain Queen songs, Bad Co. More recently Bruno Mars, Kanye West (who I believe has huge potential and doesn't need Jay-Z on his coattails. Also Jackson Browne, Paul Simon, Aretha and Stevie.

Anyway, much good luck with the band!

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WeLoveToPlayTheBlues

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stonesrule
I appreciate Mick's song "Evening Gown" more I hear it on YouTube.
Wonder if newer IORR posters are aware of this song? Like it? Hate it?

Why do you assume newer IORR posters are not aware of this song?...

I was thinking the same thing ... and are there really any 'newbie' stones fans?

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jamesfdouglas

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Zack
I disagree with your post completely, JFD. You are implying that the rest of the Stones are some kind of millstone around Jagger's neck. I have never read there was going to be a WSII (and I read a lot about the Stones), what's your source? I can't believe anyone would think that the Stones should have broken up 20 years ago so Jagger could cultivate his solo career. Evening Gown is a great tune, love the line "people say I'm a drinker/but I'm sober half the time." WS is by far his best solo disc, but Jagger's solo career mostly sucks. None of the Stones albums after DW are bad, one, B2B is even great. You would rather that not exist in favor of more Jagger solo!? You really think Jagger's solo canon post WS would be better than SW, VL, B2B, and ABB? Not me.

They are absolutley a creative millstone around his neck simply because they don't function like they used to as a proper band anymore. As for WSII, I have read it several times, and I've been trying to find a source but to no avail (anyone esle who's heard this can help us out?).
I was speaking in a creative sense - only counting the release of new material, that they should have called it quits (Steel Wheels is over 20 years ago btw). I absolutely do think that Wandering Spirit is much better than anything The Stones have done since. By a long shot.

100% agree. There is no way the creative process may be involved if the two main songwriters do not say a word to each other. But at least during the recording of VL they were in the same room. During the BTB they could not stand the presence of each other. Mick's biggest mistake was to continue to collaborate with the Stones. As a result not only his career but his personal reputation has suffered

LeonidP, you didn't comment on the song itself. Didn't think I was committing a capital crime by asking Stones fans of various generations and also people new to IORR their thoughts on "Evening Gown."

I comprehend that not everyone who posts here has heard every single song by the Stones as a band or in individual projects.

For myself, I have "discovered" songs in this Forum praised by others and am grateful for their thoughts.

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Doxa

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jamesfdouglas

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wanderingspirit66
Perhaps the most apt description of Jagger's ambivalent relationship to the Stones that anyone on this board has come up

Thanks ws66, and you're right, he does have that dynamic with them. For instance how many times in vegas-era interviews have we heard (or read) Mick referring to the Stones as 'them'?

Seemingly Mick has also adopted a way to write "for the Stones" along the yaers as well. That's quite closed shop in the sense what that supposed to sound like. I don't think he wrote during the 60's or 70's a certain Stones music or style in mind but instead just music whatever it might sound like. The Stones would then sound like that.

I think that partly explains the difference between two rather similar albums in stylewise - WANDERING SPIRIT and VOODOO LOUNGE. In WANDERING SPIRIT Jagger goes through various musical styles and genres and makes an unique, personal take on each. His realtion to music is direct - he thinks in terms of them, and sounds authentic. But in VOODOO LOUNGE the relation to music and diffferent styles is indirect - it is how The Stones would do then, that is, how they once have played those styles/genres. They are coping themselves. The effect is that wheras WANDERING SPIRIT sounds original and inspired piece of work, VOODOO LOUNGE sounds repitative and retro, The Stones going through the motions.



- Doxa

Doxa, do you think Rick Rubin is the reason why WS is Jagger's best solo album and if so, could Rubin have done as well with a rolling stones' project? Is Rubin's reputation to do miracles while working with old musical acts well deserved?
I believe he did very well with Johnny cash.
Rock and Roll,
mops

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proudmary

During the BTB they could not stand the presence of each other. Mick's biggest mistake was to continue to collaborate with the Stones. As a result not only his career but his personal reputation has suffered

Most unbelievable statement I have read on this board. I give up.

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rollmops
Doxa, do you think Rick Rubin is the reason why WS is Jagger's best solo album and if so, could Rubin have done as well with a rolling stones' project? Is Rubin's reputation to do miracles while working with old musical acts well deserved?
I believe he did very well with Johnny cash.
Rock and Roll,
mops

Rollmops, I really can't say. As far as I am awere Rubin was not all satisfied with the results - or at least to the working process - since Jagger seemed to approach producers more like yesmen to his ideas. I understood that Rubin couldn't get his visions through as he wanted to. But yeah, still it could be that Rubin is the brains behind the focus to the album that no any other Jagger album has. But in the end, it is Jagger's songs that make it a good album. But I don't know how much the idea of covering different musical styles was originally Jagger's or was it suggested by Rubin. Actually I know next to nothing of making of WANDERING SPIRIT. I hope someone else could help us here.

Personally I tend to see WANDERING SPIRIT as Jagger's statement that he can do that style of music as the Stones do just by his own, if he only chooses too. After the dary and ambitious - and commercial failure of - PRIMITIVE COOL he had to prove his credibility again.

And I think he kicked everyone's ass. For example, MAIN OFFENDER was very poor effort compared to it, and I think it only the biggest Keef diehards are very fond of it.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-26 03:10 by Doxa.

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Doxa
Personally I tend to see WANDERING SPIRIT as Jagger's statement that he can do that style of music as the Stones do just by his own, if he only chooses too.

Yeah, I too have always regarded WS as a bit of a warning shot across Keith's bow.

And to return to the thread topic, I've similarly always regarded EG as a bit of a
warning shot across Jerry's bow.

"Shape up, mates", is what he was saying. "I've just about had enough."



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012-03-26 04:23 by superrevvy.

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superrevvy

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Doxa
Personally I tend to see WANDERING SPIRIT as Jagger's statement that he can do that style of music as the Stones do just by his own, if he only chooses too.

Yeah, I too have always regarded WS as a bit of a warning shot across Keith's bow.

Even the title "Wandering Spirit" is a synonym for "Rolling Stone". So when
Jagger sings "i'm a wandering spirit, there's no place i can call my home",
in other words, "I'm a rolling stone" on his SOLO album, he is sending out a
very powerful message.

Thank you for sharing.

the line that always makes me smile is "i wear my sports clothes way too loud"

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superrevvy
the line that always makes me smile is "i wear my sports clothes way too loud"

also this line: "People say I'm a drinker, but I'm sober half the time"

apparently she wore two gowns on her wedding day in bali...

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stonesrule
LeonidP, you didn't comment on the song itself. Didn't think I was committing a capital crime by asking Stones fans of various generations and also people new to IORR their thoughts on "Evening Gown."

I comprehend that not everyone who posts here has heard every single song by the Stones as a band or in individual projects.

For myself, I have "discovered" songs in this Forum praised by others and am grateful for their thoughts.

I don't mind the thread, just thought the 'Attn: Newbies' comment of it very odd, since there aren't really any Stones newbies anymore and I think it is obvious all were aware of this song (or they wouldn't be on a Stones message board - or would they?).

As for the song, I think it is great, as i do about the entire Wandering Spirit album. Still, as far as Mick country songs go, Party Doll is far superior than Evening Gown.

Wonderful performance from Webster Hall





MJ has a great voice.
Don't understand all this complaint about Micks singing..

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mtaylor
MJ has a great voice.
Don't understand all this complaint about Micks singing..

Ehem! You're not making any point.

Even the "complainers" of Jagger's recent voice on IORR says that Jagger's Webster Hall concert as well as his Wandering Spirit album is completely different from everything he's done with Rolling Stones after the 80s; and is much much better, vocalwise.

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Erik_Snow

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mtaylor
MJ has a great voice.
Don't understand all this complaint about Micks singing..

Ehem! You're not making any point.

Even the "complainers" of Jagger's recent voice on IORR says that Jagger's Webster Hall concert as well as his Wandering Spirit album is completely different from everything he's done with Rolling Stones after the 80s; and is much much better, vocalwise.

Not everybody - lot's here complain about everything after early 80'ies.