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Hampton / Still Life: An Obvious and Dumb Question!
Posted by: stonesdan60 ()
Date: February 5, 2012 13:29

Having by now listened to Hampton numerous times, I can't help but be struck by the obvious: With such a great performance and sound quality at hand, why the hell did they not just release this (even if they couldn't resist doctoring some parts) as the official live album from 1981 instead of the much maligned Still Life? SL has it's moments, but the guitars sound so thin, it's so generally inferior to Hampton.....I just don't get it. Hampton puts Still Life to shame. What were they thinking? I've been waiting since 1981 for a great live album from that tour. Better late than never, I guess...

Re: Hampton / Still Life: An Obvious and Dumb Question!
Posted by: RobertJohnson ()
Date: February 5, 2012 13:39

I think that they didn't release Hampton due to the fact that the complete concert takes 3 or 4 LPs. There were no CD's in 1981, and double albums or even fourfold albums aren't selling as well as a single LP.

Re: Hampton / Still Life: An Obvious and Dumb Question!
Posted by: stonesdan60 ()
Date: February 5, 2012 13:44

Quote
RobertJohnson
I think that they didn't release Hampton due to the fact that the complete concert takes 3 or 4 LPs. There were no CD's in 1981, and double albums or even fourfold albums aren't selling as well as a single LP.

Good point, but I guess I should have mentioned that even if they took the best of it and edited it down to single album length it would still be better than Still Life, IMO.

Re: Hampton / Still Life: An Obvious and Dumb Question!
Posted by: RobertJohnson ()
Date: February 5, 2012 13:53

Quote
stonesdan60
Quote
RobertJohnson
I think that they didn't release Hampton due to the fact that the complete concert takes 3 or 4 LPs. There were no CD's in 1981, and double albums or even fourfold albums aren't selling as well as a single LP.

Good point, but I guess I should have mentioned that even if they took the best of it and edited it down to single album length it would still be better than Still Life, IMO.

You're right. That is another point of interest. The quality of the official live documents is often inferior to what happened on stage. The absolute low point is Flashpoint in my opinion, a flat, sterile, overproduced and "over" overdubbed live recording.

Re: Hampton / Still Life: An Obvious and Dumb Question!
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: February 5, 2012 13:54

Good questions. And the answers are just speculation...

I think the leading reason is LOVE YOU LIVE releaesed just five years ago: they wanted to make as possible different product as it is (in order to make it a better product sellwise). No over-lapping in any sense (in order to justify a new live album again) So it needed to be just a single album, and it should contain totally different material. I think some of the production/mixing ideas, for example in guitar sounds, seem to stress also the difference to LOVE YOU LIVE.

Altogether, I think STILL LIFE is quite ambitous album, and I am not sure if it really achieved its goals. It seems to try to offer a certain representation of the Stones concert experience. As all the live albums at the time it was not an authentic replica of the concert but some kind of reconstruction of the concerts. Like a sound they wanted to present. The same as with YA-YA'S and LOVE YOU LIVE, as then again with FLASHPOINT. The live albums used to be more than just documents. They were more like studio albums as musical, cohesive entities of their own (build up to a and b sides, creating a certain drama suitable to vinyl format, etc.)

This new archive project is really something else. We live different times with different concepts...

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-05 13:59 by Doxa.

Re: Hampton / Still Life: An Obvious and Dumb Question!
Posted by: Chris Fountain ()
Date: February 5, 2012 17:03

I think Still Life reaches all objectives. There are no stated deliverables. It's simply a fun album! Regardless, if you're preparing for a date or just need a boost for exercise, album fits the bill, . If not mistaken, it was the first Stones' live album that the Open G was utilized? I''m not a source to qualify the notion, but at the time of release I knew things were different. It's also a personal beef with me as of all tours, I missed the 81 tour. The Hampton show was advertised as Pay per View. I was in Florida at the time and cable technology as far as pay per view events did not reach Central Florida. In fact, most of the nation at the time was introduced to cable TV but not with expanded services, which provided ppv events. I tried like hell to see that Hanpton show!! Lack of cable Technology did me in.

I guess my point is that Still Life made me realize that lost opportunities can be lived imaginary if not in person.

Re: Hampton / Still Life: An Obvious and Dumb Question!
Posted by: LieB ()
Date: February 5, 2012 17:30

Also, back in '82, the production values and sound trends weren't on the heavy and fat side. This was the time of new wave with lots of inspiration from punk and rockabilly. So the mix on Still Life probably reflects that. Ya-Ya's is muddier and more lo fi due to its age, but also heavier and it has aged better than Still Life.

Hampton is mixed and mastered with modern technology to be more "historically accurate" than an album of its time. Thus, it's more like the concert itself and of very good sound quality.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-02-05 17:34 by LieB.

Re: Hampton / Still Life: An Obvious and Dumb Question!
Posted by: LieB ()
Date: February 5, 2012 17:33

Quote
Chris Fountain
IIf not mistaken, it was the first Stones' live album that the Open G was utilized?

Are you kidding? Get Your Ya-Ya's Out is full of open G (JJF, Honky Tonk Women, Street Fighting Man). Love You Live as well.

Re: Hampton / Still Life: An Obvious and Dumb Question!
Posted by: dandelion1967 ()
Date: February 5, 2012 17:51

It's funny the "overdubbing" point of the official live releases (Get yer ya-ya's - Mick's vocals, some guitars; Love you live, vocals at least; Still life, vocals; Flashpoint and all the rest until now, vocals, and some stuff) When they tried the "Unreleased Decca Live album" of the '72 tour, they also make overdubbing (Hopkins pianos, Vocals and even guitars)

--------------------------------------------


"I'm gonna walk... before they make me run"

--------------------------------------------

Re: Hampton / Still Life: An Obvious and Dumb Question!
Posted by: 24FPS ()
Date: February 5, 2012 18:19

Isn't Still Life tied in with the Hal Ashby movie? They seem one and the same, one meant to promote the other.

Re: Hampton / Still Life: An Obvious and Dumb Question!
Posted by: StonesTod ()
Date: February 5, 2012 18:27

to even things a bit i think they should overdub some of their studio recordings with concert material. turnabout is fair play.

Re: Hampton / Still Life: An Obvious and Dumb Question!
Posted by: Chris Fountain ()
Date: February 5, 2012 18:34

Quote
LieB
Quote
Chris Fountain
IIf not mistaken, it was the first Stones' live album that the Open G was utilized?

Are you kidding? Get Your Ya-Ya's Out is full of open G (JJF, Honky Tonk Women, Street Fighting Man). Love You Live as well.

I'm not a musician. I'm only asking why the later Stones sound is more twangy than say GYYO or even studio albums? i thought it was because of the Open G revelation? After the Mick Taylor era it got the guitar sounds got kinda higher in tone. Do you all know what I mean?

Re: Hampton / Still Life: An Obvious and Dumb Question!
Posted by: LieB ()
Date: February 5, 2012 18:42

Quote
Chris Fountain
Quote
LieB
Quote
Chris Fountain
IIf not mistaken, it was the first Stones' live album that the Open G was utilized?

Are you kidding? Get Your Ya-Ya's Out is full of open G (JJF, Honky Tonk Women, Street Fighting Man). Love You Live as well.

I'm not a musician. I'm only asking why the later Stones sound is more twangy than say GYYO or even studio albums? i thought it was because of the Open G revelation? After the Mick Taylor era it got the guitar sounds got kinda higher in tone. Do you all know what I mean?

Sure. Sorry if I sounded like a wiseguy.
I think the answer lies not in the open G tuning at all, but rather the guitar sounds and production values. The Stones played a lot of Fender guitars (twangier and more trebly) around 1980 while ten years earlier they were into fat sounding Gibson guitars a lot more. Taylor played Gibsons almost exclusively. That was the trends overall -- early seventies it was heavy rock and prog, while early eighties was more about punk, pop, new wave, rockabilly, etc.

If you talk about really late Stones, i.e. the "Vegas era", it's because Keith loves to use Telecasters and Fender amps a lot. The typical rock sound of today is also more about clarity and treble compared to the 70s which had generally more muddy and nasal sounds.

Re: Hampton / Still Life: An Obvious and Dumb Question!
Posted by: sweet neo con ()
Date: February 5, 2012 18:46

Quote
24FPS
Isn't Still Life tied in with the Hal Ashby movie? They seem one and the same, one meant to promote the other.

nah. i believe they were separate entities.....unlike SHINE A LIGHT movie and SHINE A LIGHT soundtrack.


IORR............but I like it!

Re: Hampton / Still Life: An Obvious and Dumb Question!
Posted by: Chris Fountain ()
Date: February 5, 2012 18:53

Quote
LieB
Quote
Chris Fountain
Quote
LieB
Quote
Chris Fountain
IIf not mistaken, it was the first Stones' live album that the Open G was utilized?

Are you kidding? Get Your Ya-Ya's Out is full of open G (JJF, Honky Tonk Women, Street Fighting Man). Love You Live as well.

I'm not a musician. I'm only asking why the later Stones sound is more twangy than say GYYO or even studio albums? i thought it was because of the Open G revelation? After the Mick Taylor era it got the guitar sounds got kinda higher in tone. Do you all know what I mean?

So are the Gibsons more rich in sound?? Bruce , for example can hit those daunting huanting notes up the fret with a Fender whereas Nils Lofgren's sound his high pitched and not as appeasing. Nothing against Nils,

Sure. Sorry if I sounded like a wiseguy.
I think the answer lies not in the open G tuning at all, but rather the guitar sounds and production values. The Stones played a lot of Fender guitars (twangier and more trebly) around 1980 while ten years earlier they were into fat sounding Gibson guitars a lot more. Taylor played Gibsons almost exclusively. That was the trends overall -- early seventies it was heavy rock and prog, while early eighties was more about punk, pop, new wave, rockabilly, etc.

If you talk about really late Stones, i.e. the "Vegas era", it's because Keith loves to use Telecasters and Fender amps a lot. The typical rock sound of today is also more about clarity and treble compared to the 70s which had generally more muddy and nasal sounds.

Re: Hampton / Still Life: An Obvious and Dumb Question!
Date: February 5, 2012 20:09

Quote
Chris Fountain
Quote
LieB
Quote
Chris Fountain
Quote
LieB
Quote
Chris Fountain
IIf not mistaken, it was the first Stones' live album that the Open G was utilized?

Are you kidding? Get Your Ya-Ya's Out is full of open G (JJF, Honky Tonk Women, Street Fighting Man). Love You Live as well.

I'm not a musician. I'm only asking why the later Stones sound is more twangy than say GYYO or even studio albums? i thought it was because of the Open G revelation? After the Mick Taylor era it got the guitar sounds got kinda higher in tone. Do you all know what I mean?

So are the Gibsons more rich in sound?? Bruce , for example can hit those daunting huanting notes up the fret with a Fender whereas Nils Lofgren's sound his high pitched and not as appeasing. Nothing against Nils,

Sure. Sorry if I sounded like a wiseguy.
I think the answer lies not in the open G tuning at all, but rather the guitar sounds and production values. The Stones played a lot of Fender guitars (twangier and more trebly) around 1980 while ten years earlier they were into fat sounding Gibson guitars a lot more. Taylor played Gibsons almost exclusively. That was the trends overall -- early seventies it was heavy rock and prog, while early eighties was more about punk, pop, new wave, rockabilly, etc.

If you talk about really late Stones, i.e. the "Vegas era", it's because Keith loves to use Telecasters and Fender amps a lot. The typical rock sound of today is also more about clarity and treble compared to the 70s which had generally more muddy and nasal sounds.

Still Life is the Stones album that hardly feature open G-guitars at all.

JJF and SMU are the only ones, right?

Keith used Mesa Boogies in the late 70s and throughout the 80s, except for Carvin Vegas in 1982, I think.

Re: Hampton / Still Life: An Obvious and Dumb Question!
Posted by: Tumblin_Dice_07 ()
Date: February 5, 2012 20:23

Fender's generally have a more trebly, sharp tone. Gibson's generally have a fatter, more rounded tone. This is not a rule by any means. Alot of it depends on the amp used and especially, the player.

For instance, the really cleanly picked intro to Lynyrd Skynyrd's "I Know A Little"....most people would assume that was played on a Fender. I've read multiple accounts from band members claiming Steve Gaines played it on a Les Paul Custom. The tone is a result of the guitar, the amp, and the player.

Now for instance, if you listen to the "Layla" album, you can compare the tones of a Gibson and Fender a bit more. Clapton plays a Fender, Duane Allman plays a Gibson. Clapton gets a sharper, more biting tone. Allman himself described his tone as a "full-tilt screech". Both guitarists played at low volumes through small Fender amps on that particular album.

You could also compare the tones that Clapton got with the various setups he used through out his career. With the Yardbirds, it was mainly a Tele through a Vox AC30. Fairly thin sound. With the Bluesbreakers, he got what many would consider to be the apex of blues-rock electric guitar tone with a Les Paul through a Marshall. With Cream, he continued to use Gibsons (Les Paul standard, SG, ES-335, Firebird I, Les Paul Custom) and bigger (100 watt) Marshall amps. After Cream, he started to use Fenders some. He used various guitars with Blind Faith and Delaney and Bonnie, including the ES-335, the Les Paul Custom, a Telecaster Custom with a maple Strat neck, the Firebird I, and others. By the time he recorded his first solo album, his main guitar was a 1956 Fender Stratocaster. From this point until the mid-80's, his main guitars were two late-50's Strats. In the late '80's, Fender began producing his signature Strats which he still uses today. The point is, if you want to hear some differences in the sounds of Gibsons and Fenders, compare Clapton's tone with the Bluesbreakers or Cream to the sounds he got later on his solo deput and the Layla album, and even later on in the '70's with the Slowhand album.

Re: Hampton / Still Life: An Obvious and Dumb Question!
Posted by: Chris Fountain ()
Date: February 5, 2012 20:37

Quote
Tumblin_Dice_07
Fender's generally have a more trebly, sharp tone. Gibson's generally have a fatter, more rounded tone. This is not a rule by any means. Alot of it depends on the amp used and especially, the player.

For instance, the really cleanly picked intro to Lynyrd Skynyrd's "I Know A Little"....most people would assume that was played on a Fender. I've read multiple accounts from band members claiming Steve Gaines played it on a Les Paul Custom. The tone is a result of the guitar, the amp, and the player.

Now for instance, if you listen to the "Layla" album, you can compare the tones of a Gibson and Fender a bit more. Clapton plays a Fender, Duane Allman plays a Gibson. Clapton gets a sharper, more biting tone. Allman himself described his tone as a "full-tilt screech". Both guitarists played at low volumes through small Fender amps on that particular album.

You could also compare the tones that Clapton got with the various setups he used through out his career. With the Yardbirds, it was mainly a Tele through a Vox AC30. Fairly thin sound. With the Bluesbreakers, he got what many would consider to be the apex of blues-rock electric guitar tone with a Les Paul through a Marshall. With Cream, he continued to use Gibsons (Les Paul standard, SG, ES-335, Firebird I, Les Paul Custom) and bigger (100 watt) Marshall amps. After Cream, he started to use Fenders some. He used various guitars with Blind Faith and Delaney and Bonnie, including the ES-335, the Les Paul Custom, a Telecaster Custom with a maple Strat neck, the Firebird I, and others. By the time he recorded his first solo album, his main guitar was a 1956 Fender Stratocaster. From this point until the mid-80's, his main guitars were two late-50's Strats. In the late '80's, Fender began producing his signature Strats which he still uses today. The point is, if you want to hear some differences in the sounds of Gibsons and Fenders, compare Clapton's tone with the Bluesbreakers or Cream to the sounds he got later on his solo deput and the Layla album, and even later on in the '70's with the Slowhand album.


That was a great post!! In your opinion which guitar makes a btter sounding transition from daunting low to High Screech? Example for case in point: Lou Reed RocknRoll animal "Sweet Jane" and Lou reed Live -Sattelite of Love. The lead guitar seems to hit full range. thoughts? I think Steve Hunter plays a Gibson

Re: Hampton / Still Life: An Obvious and Dumb Question!
Posted by: georgeV ()
Date: February 5, 2012 20:39

Quote
dandelion1967
It's funny the "overdubbing" point of the official live releases (Get yer ya-ya's - Mick's vocals, some guitars; Love you live, vocals at least; Still life, vocals; Flashpoint and all the rest until now, vocals, and some stuff) When they tried the "Unreleased Decca Live album" of the '72 tour, they also make overdubbing (Hopkins pianos, Vocals and even guitars)

I haven’t had a chance to listen to the 2 “new” bootleg releases but did they do any over-dubbing or fixing up to the original recordings? What about smoothing things out between songs? I recall Brussels had some funny transitions between some of the songs.

Re: Hampton / Still Life: An Obvious and Dumb Question!
Posted by: Tumblin_Dice_07 ()
Date: February 5, 2012 20:54

Not really familiar with Lou Reed's stuff to be honest. Most Gibsons have humbucking pickups. Most Fender's have single coil pickups. That accounts for some of the differences in tone. I personally prefer Fender's but it's for a variety of reasons. I play blues and blues-based rock mainly, and the playability and functionality of a Stratocaster is what I need. But I do own a Les Paul and an ES-335 because sometimes I want that bigger, fatter tone. Also, the sound I strive for has a touch of overdrive but not alot. And I get that from a Fender, but I could get a similar sound from a Gibson if I wanted to readjust my amp.

Today, they make an astounding variety of guitars. You can buy Fenders with humbucking pickups or with really high output single coil pickups and those guitars will really scream if you crank the gain on your amp. But if I want a really big "in your face" kind of tone, I go with a Gibson. If I leave my amps settings alone, and switch from a Strat to a Gibson, it's just got more. It's got the growl, the scream, the howl, whatever....

I'll say this, and most people will agree with me......the guitar/amp combination that has become synonomous with the sound of hard rock, from Cream to Zeppelin to Aerosmith to Guns and Roses and on and on, is the Les Paul though a dimed out Marshall amp. You'll see more Fenders being used in country music, R&B, soul, blues, whatever.....but the sound of ROCK....or RAWK..as some would call it, is the Gibson Les Paul (or sometimes an SG...Sabbath, AC/DC) through a Marshall amp. Hope that helps to answer your question.

Re: Hampton / Still Life: An Obvious and Dumb Question!
Posted by: straycatuk ()
Date: February 5, 2012 21:36

Quote
24FPS
Isn't Still Life tied in with the Hal Ashby movie? They seem one and the same, one meant to promote the other.

No link between them at all . Still Life was released in May / June 1982. As far as I remember LSTNT movie came out in 1983.


sc uk

Re: Hampton / Still Life: An Obvious and Dumb Question!
Posted by: georgelicks ()
Date: February 5, 2012 21:45

Mick Jagger & Keith Richards (1982): Still Life

Mick: Live albums are funny things. I mean, it's not the sort of thing I rush home to play but this one sounds pretty good. It's... CONCISE. You know, it's like a telescopic version of the show.

Keith: All this live stuff I want to come out as soon as it's ready, you know. Otherwise it becomes history. I would've liked the live album to come out in January but it's impossible, you know - I was dead on me feet. It sounds pretty good to me and I don't generally like live albums. I've stuck with this one so - it's good stuff.

[www.timeisonourside.com]


Mick wanted a concise album, that's the answer.



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