Does anyone know at what point Ernie Watts joined the 1981 Tour? What city / venue was his first gig? I saw the Stones early on the '81 tour and he was not with them at that point.

he joined the party at the san diego october 7 show. lee allen was there for a few shows prior to that...

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StonesTod
he joined the party at the san diego october 7 show. lee allen was there for a few shows prior to that...

OK - thanks

"Lee Allen was there for a few shows prior to that..."

He sucked badly and he was sent home quickly. EW obviously was a fast learner and he developped a fantastic musical chemistry with the band.

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dcba
"Lee Allen was there for a few shows prior to that..."

He sucked badly and he was sent home quickly. EW obviously was a fast learner and he developped a fantastic musical chemistry with the band.

Keith was very much into chemistry on this tour.

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dcba
"Lee Allen was there for a few shows prior to that..."

He sucked badly and he was sent home quickly. EW obviously was a fast learner and he developped a fantastic musical chemistry with the band.

I have no complaints about Ernie Watts. He meshed nicely with the band and added nicely to the improvised jam portions.

Hats off to Ernie.

Seriously.

God he's good ain't he?

EW played with Zappa and was in the Tonight Show band when Johnny Carson had the show..he is a great musician.. I read somewhere that Sonny Rollins was offered the spot but while he liked the money offered he did not want to become the "jazz featurette."

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dadrob
EW played with Zappa and was in the Tonight Show band when Johnny Carson had the show..he is a great musician.. I read somewhere that Sonny Rollins was offered the spot but while he liked the money offered he did not want to become the "jazz featurette."

i had never heard that about rollins. if true, he made a bad call...ernie wound up becoming the 3rd (or 4th if you like) "guitarist" in the band...he was no featurette....rollins holding down that slot could have been very interesting....

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steel driving hammer
Hats off to Ernie.

Seriously.

God he's good ain't he?

Not to everyone's taste it appears, but I think he's f***ing brilliant on these shows.

According to wikiped

He played three shows in October 1981 with the Rolling Stones: on October first at the Metrocenter (Rockford, Illinois), and on the third and the fourth at Folsom Field (Boulder, Colorado). According to Ian McLagan,[1] who played keyboards with the Stones on the 1981 Tattoo You tour, Allen was so bewildered by playing with the Stones for over 80,000 people in attendance "he [Allen] completely choked up". Audio recordings of the shows confirm McLagan. Allen was replaced by Ernie Watts for the remainder of the tour.

After Allen's death, Blasters member Dave Alvin dedicated the song "Mister Lee" to Allen.

Don't mind EW as a musician, but I did not like him at all with the Stones.

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Palace Revolution 2000
Don't mind EW as a musician, but I did not like him at all with the Stones.

what was he with the stones, a circus clown?

Agree with Gazza here. He blends in perfectly and is both solid and fluent. Maybe some don't like him because he is too good? Or because he didn't look like a rock star (half bald and older)?

he killed on damn near every version of Just my imagination......left space for us to hear the genius of Bill's lines, if I may type all jazz at you kids.

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StonesTod
he joined the party at the san diego october 7 show. lee allen was there for a few shows prior to that...

As did I, first night show of the tour. It was a beautiful sunny blue sky day that morphed into a wonderful night.

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Stoneage
Agree with Gazza here. He blends in perfectly and is both solid and fluent. Maybe some don't like him because he is too good? Or because he didn't look like a rock star (half bald and older)?

Neither did his brother Charlie, in fairness.

I remember back around the time of the '81 tour a local radio station did a special on the Stones that included interviews with band members, including Ernie Watts. He came across as a pretty cool guy who really "got" what the Stones at that time were all about. When asked about the difference between playing jazz and playing rock and roll with the Stones, he said (may not be verbatim), "Playing with the Stones is exactly like playing with a jazz band. Everything is improvisation. Some nights solos may be longer or shorter or someone might just launch into a solo that leads to a fantastic unplanned jam. It's all intuition and reading each other. The Stones work just like a jazz band." I miss those days. I still love the Stones but everything's too planned out in advance for the kind of spontaneity Watts described in 1981.

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stonesdan60
"Playing with the Stones is exactly like playing with a jazz band. Everything is improvisation. Some nights solos may be longer or shorter or someone might just launch into a solo that leads to a fantastic unplanned jam. It's all intuition and reading each other. The Stones work just like a jazz band."

Wonderful quote!

- Doxa

Just to note -Ernie Watts apparently hated touring with the Stones, even so much that he declined for the 1982 tour. He stated in a 90's interview that he spent 23 hours per day on his hotel room, and then was dragged out onto the stage. He said that he didn't have a social life for two months, and that he didn't have any interaction with any of the Stones when they weren't on the stage. He did admire Bobby Keys deeply for not complaining, as Keys was in the same position and even only played on two tracks per show.

Mathijs

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StonesTod

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Palace Revolution 2000
Don't mind EW as a musician, but I did not like him at all with the Stones.

what was he with the stones, a circus clown?

lol, no, he was a great sax player for the 81 Stones sound.

So good his saxophone BLED.

I think his sax spit for that tour is on sale on Ebay btw...

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Mathijs
Just to note -Ernie Watts apparently hated touring with the Stones, even so much that he declined for the 1982 tour. He stated in a 90's interview that he spent 23 hours per day on his hotel room, and then was dragged out onto the stage. He said that he didn't have a social life for two months, and that he didn't have any interaction with any of the Stones when they weren't on the stage. He did admire Bobby Keys deeply for not complaining, as Keys was in the same position and even only played on two tracks per show.

Mathijs

and as i mentioned on another thread awhile back, nary is there a mention of his stint with the stones in the bio on his website....telling....

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Gazza

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steel driving hammer
Hats off to Ernie.

Seriously.

God he's good ain't he?

Not to everyone's taste it appears, but I think he's f***ing brilliant on these shows.

technically brilliant...BUT...played too long during songs!! Stones fans are used to intricate sax moments in songs, not over blown solos that went too long...and then proceed to dominate the rest of the songs!
it's just annoying to me....sorry!

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Eleanor Rigby

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Gazza

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steel driving hammer
Hats off to Ernie.

Seriously.

God he's good ain't he?

Not to everyone's taste it appears, but I think he's f***ing brilliant on these shows.

technically brilliant...BUT...played too long during songs!! Stones fans are used to intricate sax moments in songs, not over blown solos that went too long...and then proceed to dominate the rest of the songs!
it's just annoying to me....sorry!

Yeah maybe too long, but too magnificent as well.

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Eleanor Rigby

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Gazza

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steel driving hammer
Hats off to Ernie.

Seriously.

God he's good ain't he?

Not to everyone's taste it appears, but I think he's f***ing brilliant on these shows.

technically brilliant...BUT...played too long during songs!! Stones fans are used to intricate sax moments in songs, not over blown solos that went too long...and then proceed to dominate the rest of the songs!
it's just annoying to me....sorry!

It had to do with the material the Stones were playing at the time, imo.

Songs like Waiting On A Friend, Imagination and Beast Of Burden are perfect for long sax parts.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I find him quite annoying. I thought his licks were repetitive and he overplayed. That little riff that he repeats ad nauseum throughout "Waiting On A Friend" ruins it for me. A far cry from Sonny Rollins brilliant, soulful take on the album.

The instrumental break in YCAGWYW goes nowhere, especially compared to the Brussel's version, where MT's melodic solo seems to melt into Trevor Lawrence's fat, soulful finish.

And his showpiece, "Just My Imagination", again, too repetitive. He seems to be competing with the guitars. I would much rather hear some Keith/Ronnie guitar interplay without the annoying squawking going on.

Aside from that, I like the new Hampton release more than I thought I would. Better than I remembered it from the boots back in the day. 81 is not a year I have listened to much over the years (even though it is certainly well-documented on boots!) but the improved mix really improves this one! I just have to try to tune out the sax!

(IMHO disclaimer here)

Ross

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DandelionPowderman

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Eleanor Rigby

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Gazza

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steel driving hammer
Hats off to Ernie.

Seriously.

God he's good ain't he?

Not to everyone's taste it appears, but I think he's f***ing brilliant on these shows.

technically brilliant...BUT...played too long during songs!! Stones fans are used to intricate sax moments in songs, not over blown solos that went too long...and then proceed to dominate the rest of the songs!
it's just annoying to me....sorry!

It had to do with the material the Stones were playing at the time, imo.

Songs like Waiting On A Friend, Imagination and Beast Of Burden are perfect for long sax parts.

i dont mind long sax parts, but sax parts during guitar solos and singing...sorry not for me.
Just listening to Hampton and songs like Let It Bleed etc.. dont and shouldn't have sax in them.
I reckon they let him do whatever because of his talent.

let it bleed was made for the saxophone...and i believe that's bobby wailing away on the hampton version...

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Eleanor Rigby

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DandelionPowderman

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Eleanor Rigby

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Gazza

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steel driving hammer
Hats off to Ernie.

Seriously.

God he's good ain't he?

Not to everyone's taste it appears, but I think he's f***ing brilliant on these shows.

technically brilliant...BUT...played too long during songs!! Stones fans are used to intricate sax moments in songs, not over blown solos that went too long...and then proceed to dominate the rest of the songs!
it's just annoying to me....sorry!

It had to do with the material the Stones were playing at the time, imo.

Songs like Waiting On A Friend, Imagination and Beast Of Burden are perfect for long sax parts.

i dont mind long sax parts, but sax parts during guitar solos and singing...sorry not for me.
Just listening to Hampton and songs like Let It Bleed etc.. dont and shouldn't have sax in them.
I reckon they let him do whatever because of his talent.

I liked the saxophone in Let It Bleed. Gave the country-ish tune a little more rock.

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Mathijs
Just to note -Ernie Watts apparently hated touring with the Stones, even so much that he declined for the 1982 tour. He stated in a 90's interview that he spent 23 hours per day on his hotel room, and then was dragged out onto the stage. He said that he didn't have a social life for two months, and that he didn't have any interaction with any of the Stones when they weren't on the stage. He did admire Bobby Keys deeply for not complaining, as Keys was in the same position and even only played on two tracks per show.

Mathijs

This sounds like mythological nonsense.
Why would a grown man not leave his hotel room in city after city to enjoy the town. It had to have been his choice if true at all.

Even Chuck Leavell gets out and grinds out some grub on the town!