just read..and on piano NICKY HOPKINS.......awesome book

A friend of mine has it. I haven't read it yet. My buddy met the the author at a party in chicago. Julian something...

julian dawson

pretty sad story in the end

I recently found that at a used bookstore. It's on my reading list, but have only skimmed through so far.
Question:
In the book, an anonymous person makes a claim about how the Stones would have so-called 'jam parties' or 'studio parties' and invite all these great studio musicians to just jam, then at one point, Mick would give someone a 'signal' to record the sesssion. The Stones would then use that material and never give any credits.
I have a hard time beleiving this. Number One, the guy making this claim does not give his name. Two: Its one thing to claim the Stones don't give credit to people,that they're sneaky and stingy... we know that. But to claim that all those great outtakes, demos are the spontaneous musical moments from studio musicians unwittingly caught on tape? Don't buy it. We know how the Stones write, play...their patterns of rehearsing from years of boots....
What did you think of that claim GOO?

i thought the same thing when i read that passage.....maybe an idea came from these jams.....jamming with edward has alittle of this....blow with ry = midnight rambler?

didnt realize nicky was such a druggie either.....but i guess he could still play...

check out the jerry garcia band with nicky on piano....great stuff, let it rock....cool 15 minute version of lets spend the night together

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GOO
i thought the same thing when i read that passage.....maybe an idea came from these jams.....jamming with edward has alittle of this....blow with ry = midnight rambler?

didnt realize nicky was such a druggie either.....but i guess he could still play...

This guy made it sound like the Stones, Mick and Keith, were specifically using other musician's licks, riffs etc....
We know they've jammed with various musicians - Beck, Cooder etc...all bands do that.
But this guy made it sound more 'seedy'...lol..
and yet, none of these 'great' studio musicians has ever talked about their night jamming with the Stones.

i think the glimmer twins might have been alittle seedy back then.....they paid session players the minimum amount.....Hopkins should have gotten credit on a few songs were the piano is the main riff......name a few....mmmmmmm tons actually

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GOO
i think the glimmer twins might have been alittle seedy back then.....they paid session players the minimum amount.....Hopkins should have gotten credit on a few songs were the piano is the main riff......name a few....mmmmmmm tons actually

Empty statements. Who says they paid session musicians a minimum amount? And who says Nicky wrote any of the things he played for the Stones?

Mathijs

nicky got paid standard wage.....have you read the book? we all know how cheap they can be , surely a stones fan knows that.....lets see Loving Cup , Sympathy, the list goes on....do u think a guitar riff = the piano riff? do you think jagger/richards wrote the piano for salt of the earth?.......your statement is empty

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GOO
nicky got paid standard wage.....have you read the book? we all know how cheap they can be , surely a stones fan knows that.....lets see Loving Cup , Sympathy, the list goes on....do u think a guitar riff = the piano riff? do you think jagger/richards wrote the piano for salt of the earth?.......your statement is empty

Do you really think you write a song only by playing a melody line?

well take the melody line out and what do you have?.....

i would also add that hopkins added more than a melody line.......She's A Rainbow

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GOO
well take the melody line out and what do you have?.....

Are you kidding? If I take the solo out of let's say Time Waits For No One, we still have the beautiful song. The solo is an icing on the cake, which improves the already written song.

Nicky was great, and i think the Stones were quite fair with him. They even put out "Edward" with Nicky as a main figure in it.

Also, when he was in extreme need of cash to pay hospital bills, the Stones paid for it, all this according to Dawsons book

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GOO
i would also add that hopkins added more than a melody line.......She's A Rainbow

Agree, it's brilliant. However, if a marimba played this musical theme, the song would still be good...

true....i just think he fleshed out many songs with his playing....like a team....always wonder why the jagger/richard team didnt hand out writing credits more....on certain songs it seems like the right thing to do....Sympathy without the piano is a strummed guitar and tons of drums.....

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GOO
true....i just think he fleshed out many songs with his playing....like a team....always wonder why the jagger/richard team didnt hand out writing credits more....on certain songs it seems like the right thing to do....Sympathy without the piano is a strummed guitar and tons of drums.....

I think you're right there, fleshed out. That's what you'd expect by a pro musician. However, improving the songs is not the same as writing them, and only songwriters get the songwriting credits.

On She's a Rainbow, John Paul Jones rightfully was credited, with arranging credits. He didn't write the song, or any parts of it, but he arranged the strings.

writing the words does not make a song....strumming a guitar doesnt make a song.....its all the parts put together.....angie without the piano ?.....whatever

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GOO
writing the words does not make a song....strumming a guitar doesnt make a song.....its all the parts put together.....angie without the piano ?.....whatever

You logic would make all the session musicians in the world pretty rich...

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GOO
i would also add that hopkins added more than a melody line.......She's A Rainbow

Good example. Listening to the outtakes you can clearly hear Richards directing Hopkins, clearly showing Hopkins what to play. And listening to the 8 set worth of Satanic outtakes, it is quite clear Richards has about all the melodies ready, and is directing people like Hopkins, showing the melodies or saying things like 'keep that', 'drop that', 'do that again'.

I am not trying to take anything away from the brilliant Hopkins, but for the most part he plays what he's told, at least within the Stones.

Mathijs

i guess so......what about bill wyman coming up with the riff to paint it black?jumping jack flash? is he lying...no credit, not a session musician......granted the piano on say streets of love doesnt deserve a writing credit, but what about coming down again or you cant always get what you want? surely the piano line makes these songs....just a thought

mathijs,
its like saying neeskens never came up with an idea on his own with out cruyff saying shoot left or right.....lol

i guess al kooper played piano on ycagwyw

yes during the recording of she's a rainbow keith gave direction, but what we dont hear is the first run through....i doubt if keith said "nicky play the piano like this, i know how it goes"....im sure he played it on guitar like Sometimes happy some times Blue outtake of dandelion...then nicky added his bit......just thinking.....love those outtakes by the way....

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GOO
i guess so......what about bill wyman coming up with the riff to paint it black?jumping jack flash? is he lying...no credit, not a session musician......granted the piano on say streets of love doesnt deserve a writing credit, but what about coming down again or you cant always get what you want? surely the piano line makes these songs....just a thought

YCAGWYW is a guitar and lyric-based song.

There should be no doubt about Coming Down Again being a Keith Richards-number.

IMO, there is no need speculating whether one deserves a credit or not, unless you were there or have access to the birth of those songs - solely on an opinion that one plays a great part.

The Wyman/JFF-story is something else. If he indeed came up with the classic riff, which the song is built around, he would deserve songwriting credits, imo.

Then again, he could have come up with the beginning, which is a standard B/E/A-chord change, and that makes the situation different.

Hey GOO or everyone else who has read the book, is there anything about Nicky's "Finnish tour" 1991, he played with Andy McCoy and Dave Lindholm. I have always found that whole thing a kind of weird. To hear legendary Nicky Hopkins to play with two 'local' guys in some dumb in my town... how on earth that happened?

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-01-27 17:21 by Doxa.

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DandelionPowderman


The Wyman/JFF-story is something else. If he indeed came up with the classic riff, which the song is built around, he would deserve songwriting credits, imo.

Then again, he could have come up with the beginning, which is a standard B/E/A-chord change, and that makes the situation different.

He says he came up with the main riff, not the intro.

the finnish tour is mentioned at the end of the book....very strange , he needed money ....andy mccoy was in hanoi rocks....shows were mainly cover songs....nicky did 3-4 japaneses movie/tv soundtracks around that time too....never heard them