I remember getting this years ago for my dad's birthday

Just rediscovered it to see what its like, its cool, but, is there an outtakes/alt steel wheels thats a bit rougher/band'y kinda sounding? not quite as 'polished/produced' if ya get me?

the productions a little bit underwhelming to me atm, compared to what i remembered all those years ago?

cheers for your help

There are two collections of outtakes.

The first one 'Steel Wheels Monitor Mixes' was circulated by the widow of a crew member (Chuch Magee, I think) on the Rocks Off torrent site in 2006. It was subsequently bootlegged.

A second collection, 'Training Wheels' appeared on CD a while later.

Both are mostly alternate takes and/or rough mixes of the songs that were on the album, and if you're wanting stuff thats not quite as over-polished, theyre certainly what youre looking for. The Monitor Mixes one is the better of the two and in better sound quality.

For the most part, the versions on the monitor mixes collection appear to be a bit more finished.

From my own notes :

ALTERNATE TAKES

Almost Hear You Sigh 5:20 1 Training Wheels Keith on vocals. Very embryonic lyrics in the verses. The song is a lot more finished musically than lyrically. Electric guitar more prominent than on released version especially in second half of the song, with a solo from 3:41 on
Almost Hear You Sigh 4:52 2 Monitor Mixes Keith on vocals. Early, unfinished lyrics, although a bit more developed than V1. This song was first recorded for Keith's “Talk is Cheap” solo album in 1988
Blinded By Love 5:17 1 Training Wheels This version has a brief false start before a 'lets do it' from Mick and a count in from Keith ('one two quattro vingt'). Early rehearsal version that’s dominated by acoustic guitar and a drumbeats. Apart from singing the title, Mick is singing dummy lyrics. Keith sings some harmony from 2nd chorus on. The bridge has no lyrics.
Blinded By Love 5:30 2 Monitor Mixes A finished version. Fiddle more prominent than in released version. Longer musical breaks between each chorus and the next verse and longer outro. Intro count-in (one-two, one -two-quatre-vingt!) by Keith
Break The Spell 3:50 1 Training Wheels Mick says "yeah" at the start before blowing some harp and counting the song in. Musically it sounds close to the released take. Possibly an overdub session, as Mick is playing harp over what are his own guide vocals
Break The Spell 3:49 2 Monitor Mixes A more complete take, closer to released version, but longer. Again, possibly an overdubbed vocal, because of the amount of harmonica.
Can't Be Seen 5:10 1 Training Wheels Early take. Lots of dummy lyrics, most of what's intelligible has Keith singing "its just a dream with you", and in the bridge he's singing totally different but obviously rough lyrics than the official version
Can't Be Seen 5:23 2 Monitor Mixes '1,2,1,2,3,4” count-in by Keith. Lyrics are more developed than V1 (especially in 1st half of song), but still not completed. Organ very prominent in mix.
Continental Drift 6:04 1 Training Wheels Instrumental. This sounds like a backing track made before the Joujouka musicians recorded their parts in Tangier. The 'fast' part of the song near the end is much longer than on the released version. This is predominantly a percussion and keybaord dominated backing track. The bicycle played by Keith is also quite prominent!
Fancy Man Blues 5:49 1 Training Wheels Earlier take, but still pretty much a finished version. The bass seems a bit higher in the mix on this take and Chuck Leavell's piano melody is noticeably different. 1 minute longer than released version
Fancy Man Blues 6:44 2 Monitor Mixes Opens with false start. Two minutes longer than released version, with longer solos
Hearts For Sale 4:30 1 Training Wheels Mick counts-in '1-2-3-4-1-2'. Early version, with 'dummy' lyrics. The only words in the chorus are 'Hearts for Sale'.
Hearts For Sale 4:36 2 Monitor Mixes Finished version, apart from having no vocals in the bridge
Hold On To Your Hat 4:07 1 Training Wheels A couple of false starts, which cause Ronnie to burst out laughing. Unlike many of the 'Training Wheels' songs, the lyrics and vocal performance are closer to those on the finished version.
Hold On To Your Hat 4:04 2 Monitor Mixes Starts with Ronnie laughing and then a count-in by Mick. Piano more audible and lead guitar different to released version. Longer outro. Ends with engineer shouting '@#$%& GREAT!' followed by Mick's reply “Good,good good! Shall we hear it?'
Mixed Emotions 2:01 1 Training Wheels combination of excerpts of 4 versions (Mick & Keith writing it, 2 rehearsal takes and a backing vocal rehearsal, as included in "25 x 5" documentary (and 'rough cut' version)
Mixed Emotions 6:48 2 Training Wheels Early take, with unfinished lyrics in verses
Mixed Emotions 6:33 3 Monitor Mixes Like most of the Monitor Mixes, a finished version with a mix that's got a harder, more typical Stones sound before it was given it's final treatment. This version has an outro that lasts almost 3 minutes.
Rock And A Hard Place 3:20 1 Training Wheels Early take as included in "25 x 5" documentary (and 'rough cut' version)
Rock And A Hard Place 5:48 2 Training Wheels '1 – 1,2,3' count-in by Mick. Guide vocal by Mick with early lyrics. Bass and keyboard (synth) are quite prominent. No lyrics for most of the bridge.
Rock And A Hard Place 5:50 3 Monitor Mixes More finished version, with horns and backing vocals. Possibly from an overdub session. Longer outro
Sad Sad Sad 3:54 1 Training Wheels Early take with unfinished lyrics in verses. Mick's guitar in intro is more prominent. In solo, there is no lead guitar and more keyboard is audible. Songs starts with four notes on the bass (Ronnie) before a count-in by Keith.
Sad Sad Sad 3:53 2 Monitor Mixes More finished version, similar to released take, but no lead guitar or horns
Slipping Away 5:24 1 Training Wheels Instrumental take. Possibly a backing track for the released version before the vocals, horns, etc were added. Just an electric guitar, organ, drums and bass on this
Slipping Away 5:32 2 Monitor Mixes Brief false start, before a count-in by Keith. Lyrics are still not quite finished.The backing singers' vocals (but not Mick Jagger's) and horns are on this version, however. There are no lyrics by Keith in bridge, which ends with some backing vocals. Longer outro than released version
Terrifying 5:21 1 Training Wheels Brief false start, after which Keith jokes 'Shut up, you c**t!' Mick's lyrics in the verses are unfinished and this is a guide vocal
Terrifying 5:40 2 Monitor Mixes Close to released version, with long outro (with some ad-lib noises by Jagger)

OUTTAKES
For Your Precious Love 6:27 1 Training Wheels A superb version of Jerry Butler's classic. Earlier, more guitar-dominated take with '1,2.3' count-in. No backing vocals on this take.
For Your Precious Love 6:15 2 Monitor Mixes A more finished version, with shimmeringly soulful backing vocals and more piano. An absolutely gorgeous take.
Giving It Up 5:28 Training Wheels Pleasant, mid paced soul ballad, with unfinished lyrics
Hellhound On My Trail 1:11 Training Wheels Not an outtake as such, but more a jam session from Montserrat which appeared in part on "25 x 5" (rough cut version)
Ready Yourself 3:37 1 Training Wheels Keith on vocal. Mid-paced rocker with unfinished lyrics. Could be an early version of 'Can't Be Seen'
Ready Yourself 3:32 2 Monitor Mixes Instrumental version.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012-01-13 04:30 by Gazza.

Quote
Gazza
There are two collections of outtakes.

The first one 'Steel Wheels Monitor Mixes' was circulated by the widow of a crew member (Chuch Magee, I think) on the Rocks Off torrent site in 2006. It was subsequently bootlegged.

A second collection, 'Training Wheels' appeared on CD a while later.

Both are mostly alternate takes and/or rough mixes of the songs that were on the album, and if you're wanting stuff thats not quite as over-polished, theyre certainly what youre looking for. The Monitor Mixes one is the better of the two and in better sound quality.

For the most part, the versions on the monitor mixes collection appear to be a bit more finished.

From my own notes :

ALTERNATE TAKES

Almost Hear You Sigh 5:20 1 Training Wheels Keith on vocals. Very embryonic lyrics in the verses. The song is a lot more finished musically than lyrically. Electric guitar more prominent than on released version especially in second half of the song, with a solo from 3:41 on
Almost Hear You Sigh 4:52 2 Monitor Mixes Keith on vocals. Early, unfinished lyrics, although a bit more developed than V1. This song was first recorded for Keith's “Talk is Cheap” solo album in 1988
Blinded By Love 5:17 1 Training Wheels This version has a brief false start before a 'lets do it' from Mick and a count in from Keith ('one two quattro vingt'). Early rehearsal version that’s dominated by acoustic guitar and a drumbeats. Apart from singing the title, Mick is singing dummy lyrics. Keith sings some harmony from 2nd chorus on. The bridge has no lyrics.
Blinded By Love 5:30 2 Monitor Mixes A finished version. Fiddle more prominent than in released version. Longer musical breaks between each chorus and the next verse and longer outro. Intro count-in (one-two, one -two-quatre-vingt!) by Keith
Break The Spell 3:50 1 Training Wheels Mick says "yeah" at the start before blowing some harp and counting the song in. Musically it sounds close to the released take. Possibly an overdub session, as Mick is playing harp over what are his own guide vocals
Break The Spell 3:49 2 Monitor Mixes A more complete take, closer to released version, but longer. Again, possibly an overdubbed vocal, because of the amount of harmonica.
Can't Be Seen 5:10 1 Training Wheels Early take. Lots of dummy lyrics, most of what's intelligible has Keith singing "its just a dream with you", and in the bridge he's singing totally different but obviously rough lyrics than the official version
Can't Be Seen 5:23 2 Monitor Mixes '1,2,1,2,3,4” count-in by Keith. Lyrics are more developed than V1 (especially in 1st half of song), but still not completed. Organ very prominent in mix.
Continental Drift 6:04 1 Training Wheels Instrumental. This sounds like a backing track made before the Joujouka musicians recorded their parts in Tangier. The 'fast' part of the song near the end is much longer than on the released version. This is predominantly a percussion and keybaord dominated backing track. The bicycle played by Keith is also quite prominent!
Fancy Man Blues 5:49 1 Training Wheels Earlier take, but still pretty much a finished version. The bass seems a bit higher in the mix on this take and Chuck Leavell's piano melody is noticeably different. 1 minute longer than released version
Fancy Man Blues 6:44 2 Monitor Mixes Opens with false start. Two minutes longer than released version, with longer solos
Hearts For Sale 4:30 1 Training Wheels Mick counts-in '1-2-3-4-1-2'. Early version, with 'dummy' lyrics. The only words in the chorus are 'Hearts for Sale'.
Hearts For Sale 4:36 2 Monitor Mixes Finished version, apart from having no vocals in the bridge
Hold On To Your Hat 4:07 1 Training Wheels A couple of false starts, which cause Ronnie to burst out laughing. Unlike many of the 'Training Wheels' songs, the lyrics and vocal performance are closer to those on the finished version.
Hold On To Your Hat 4:04 2 Monitor Mixes Starts with Ronnie laughing and then a count-in by Mick. Piano more audible and lead guitar different to released version. Longer outro. Ends with engineer shouting '@#$%& GREAT!' followed by Mick's reply “Good,good good! Shall we hear it?'
Mixed Emotions 2:01 1 Training Wheels combination of excerpts of 4 versions (Mick & Keith writing it, 2 rehearsal takes and a backing vocal rehearsal, as included in "25 x 5" documentary (and 'rough cut' version)
Mixed Emotions 6:48 2 Training Wheels Early take, with unfinished lyrics in verses
Mixed Emotions 6:33 3 Monitor Mixes Like most of the Monitor Mixes, a finished version with a mix that's got a harder, more typical Stones sound before it was given it's final treatment. This version has an outro that lasts almost 3 minutes.
Rock And A Hard Place 3:20 1 Training Wheels Early take as included in "25 x 5" documentary (and 'rough cut' version)
Rock And A Hard Place 5:48 2 Training Wheels '1 – 1,2,3' count-in by Mick. Guide vocal by Mick with early lyrics. Bass and keyboard (synth) are quite prominent. No lyrics for most of the bridge.
Rock And A Hard Place 5:50 3 Monitor Mixes More finished version, with horns and backing vocals. Possibly from an overdub session. Longer outro
Sad Sad Sad 3:54 1 Training Wheels Early take with unfinished lyrics in verses. Mick's guitar in intro is more prominent. In solo, there is no lead guitar and more keyboard is audible. Songs starts with four notes on the bass (Ronnie) before a count-in by Keith.
Sad Sad Sad 3:53 2 Monitor Mixes More finished version, similar to released take, but no lead guitar or horns
Slipping Away 5:24 1 Training Wheels Instrumental take. Possibly a backing track for the released version before the vocals, horns, etc were added. Just an electric guitar, organ, drums and bass on this
Slipping Away 5:32 2 Monitor Mixes Brief false start, before a count-in by Keith. Lyrics are still not quite finished.The backing singers' vocals (but not Mick Jagger's) and horns are on this version, however. There are no lyrics by Keith in bridge, which ends with some backing vocals. Longer outro than released version
Terrifying 5:21 1 Training Wheels Brief false start, after which Keith jokes 'Shut up, you c**t!' Mick's lyrics in the verses are unfinished and this is a guide vocal
Terrifying 5:40 2 Monitor Mixes Close to released version, with long outro (with some ad-lib noises by Jagger)

OUTTAKES
For Your Precious Love 6:27 1 Training Wheels A superb version of Jerry Butler's classic. Earlier, more guitar-dominated take with '1,2.3' count-in. No backing vocals on this take.
For Your Precious Love 6:15 2 Monitor Mixes A more finished version, with shimmeringly soulful backing vocals and more piano. An absolutely gorgeous take.
Giving It Up 5:28 Training Wheels Pleasant, mid paced soul ballad, with unfinished lyrics
Hellhound On My Trail 1:11 Training Wheels Not an outtake as such, but more a jam session from Montserrat which appeared in part on "25 x 5" (rough cut version)
Ready Yourself 3:37 1 Training Wheels Keith on vocal. Mid-paced rocker with unfinished lyrics. Could be an early version of 'Can't Be Seen'
Ready Yourself 3:32 2 Monitor Mixes Instrumental version.

wow, respect man!

"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"

Do 'Steel Wheels Monitor Mixes' and 'Training Wheels' actually feature DIFFERENT material? ... Or is it the very same stuff in different sequence and/or sound quality?

I just have the later, and now I wonder if I'm missing something there!

Its different, which is why I've listed each song as version 1 or 2 etc and listed the bootleg they appear on and the differences in each....

Gazza is no without reason known as Gazza.

- Doxa

The Montserrat video is very telling. The band considers it a major achievement to actually come together and work for two or three weeks. Work has become an anomaly for them at this point.

Quote
Stoneage
The Montserrat video is very telling. The band considers it a major achievement to actually come together and work for two or three weeks. Work has become an anomaly for them at this point.

Not work, but rather being able to work together

Never gave Training Wheels a listen and NEVER read the text-file that came along with it, always believed it's the same as the Monitor Mixes

Thanks Gazza, now I have something new for the weekend....

I know this happened over 20 years ago but stuff like this makes me exited...


"Sad Sad Sad 3:54 1 Training Wheels Early take with unfinished lyrics in verses. Mick's guitar in intro is more prominent. In solo, there is no lead guitar and more keyboard is audible. Songs starts with four notes on the bass (Ronnie) before a count-in by Keith."

This has to be on Priate bay.

Gotta get it.

Quote
silkcut1978_
Never gave Training Wheels a listen and NEVER read the text-file that came along with it, always believed it's the same as the Monitor Mixes

Thanks Gazza, now I have something new for the weekend....

Its a fun listen silk, but like the song says Ready Yourself.

What a strange day Munichhilton - I just learned in my own thread on "Hot Stuff" that there's a soundboard from Oshawa '79. I already found it on one of my HDs but I never noticed as well. Absolutely new to me that there's a sbd-recording of this show.

So "Training Wheels" on Saturday, Oshawa sbd on Sunday - keep 'em coming guys and let me know what else is there on my discs



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-01-13 16:24 by silkcut1978_.

To date still Mick and Keith's best acting: 'we need another minor, F and G'. Fantastic, Grammy Award material.

Mathijs

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
Stoneage
The Montserrat video is very telling. The band considers it a major achievement to actually come together and work for two or three weeks. Work has become an anomaly for them at this point.

Not work, but rather being able to work together

But altogether, there is more like a family picnic gathering feeling there, all behaving/posing correctly and all that; not really driven by a muse that forces to work seriously. Pretty different feeling than in Godard film...

- Doxa

Quote
Mathijs
To date still Mick and Keith's best acting: 'we need another minor, F and G'. Fantastic, Grammy Award material.

Mathijs

Yeah but how many people can play guitar, sing, wheeze and smoke simultaneously?

Quote
GravityBoy

Quote
Mathijs
To date still Mick and Keith's best acting: 'we need another minor, F and G'. Fantastic, Grammy Award material.

Mathijs

Yeah but how many people can play guitar, sing, wheeze and smoke simultaneously?

And a perfect Em wheeze at that!

Quote
silkcut1978_
What a strange day Munichhilton - I just learned in my own thread on "Hot Stuff" that there's a soundboard from Oshawa '79. I already found it on one of my HDs but I never noticed as well. Absolutely new to me that there's a sbd-recording of this show.

So "Training Wheels" on Saturday, Oshawa sbd on Sunday - keep 'em coming guys and let me know what else is there on my discs

Wow
These bootlegs keep giving and giving. You really need that secretary you're advertising for!

Quote
Mathijs
To date still Mick and Keith's best acting: 'we need another minor, F and G'. Fantastic, Grammy Award material.

Mathijs

You dont get Grammys for acting...you get Oscars...

Yours,

a pedantic bastard..

Quote
Gazza

Quote
Mathijs
To date still Mick and Keith's best acting: 'we need another minor, F and G'. Fantastic, Grammy Award material.

Mathijs

You dont get Grammys for acting...you get Oscars...

Yours,

a pedantic bastard..

Nah, it is too bad for an Oscar. A Grammy, that's what they should have gotten.

Mathijs

"..and the award for best minor chord while smoking a fag in a documentary goes to...."

hey there!!!

great thread this is turning out to be, loving all the clips and that - really helps give a avibe as to where they were at and how it got to shape up as it did so far

only prob tho is anywhere ive looked in the last 24hrs has been a dead end for both 'Steel Wheels Monitor Mixes' & 'Training Wheels' seem to have disapeared on the download front

booo

I'm so close, yet so far

Apart from AHYS and Slipping Away, I have very little time for it.

Quote
OneHit
Apart from AHYS and Slipping Away, I have very little time for it.

thank you for that insight, i can now rest easy

Quote
OneHit
Apart from AHYS and Slipping Away, I have very little time for it.

Yeah, I always figured you for a Dirty Work appreciator

I wan't this 2 part boot.

please note that gazza takes very detailed notes!

why don't you go to Hot Stuff section?

Just post it on rapidshare. Megaupload will be ready in 15-20 minutes.

Quote
ironbelly
why don't you go to Hot Stuff section?

Just post it on rapidshare. Megaupload will be ready in 15-20 minutes.

legend!!!