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varilla
Who wrote Satisfaction then?

The riff is essentially a slightly busier version of the horn riff from Martha and The Vandellas - Nowehere To Run.

Forum member howled did a nice breakdown recently of the slight differences between them.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-01-04 21:21 by His Majesty.

Brian didn't write the Last Time, Pops Staples did, though

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tomcasagranda
Brian didn't write the Last Time, Pops Staples did, though

Brian wrote/came up with the guitar riff.

...or we could just give all of them credit for "inspiration" ;-)

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tomcasagranda
Brian didn't write the Last Time, Pops Staples did, though

No the Staples wrote the song that is the blueprint for the Last Time. Jagger/Richards wrote the last time. Brian wrote the riff which is important to the song.

Many of you seem to know very little about songwriting with a band.

I believe 100% that Mick and Keith ripped off their own bandmates and sidemen for songwriting credit. Thanks to "Jagger/Richards" and "Lennon/McCartney" there are millions of people out there who think it's okay to allot 2 people songwriting credit for a song that was worked out by 2, 3, 4 more people.

[thepowergoats.com]

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His Majesty

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tomcasagranda
Brian didn't write the Last Time, Pops Staples did, though

Brian wrote/came up with the guitar riff.

How do we know he came up with it?

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Redhotcarpet

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tomcasagranda
Brian didn't write the Last Time, Pops Staples did, though

No the Staples wrote the song that is the blueprint for the Last Time. Jagger/Richards wrote the last time. Brian wrote the riff which is important to the song.

Do you have a source for that?

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jamesfdouglas
Many of you seem to know very little about songwriting with a band.

I believe 100% that Mick and Keith ripped off their own bandmates and sidemen for songwriting credit. Thanks to "Jagger/Richards" and "Lennon/McCartney" there are millions of people out there who think it's okay to allot 2 people songwriting credit for a song that was worked out by 2, 3, 4 more people.

The "Arranged by the Rolling Stones"-credit comes to mind. But that is something different and maybe a way to keep the Jagger/Richards partner club intact. Bill claims to have been called greedy when he asked to get credits for parts he say he wrote. To get the money you need song writing credits. Both Mick and Keith and Paul and John are known to have been protective about that. Business business.

Now, I'm pretty convinced that Mick and Keith wrote most of the material. But what I wonder is how many of the times they showed up with a 100% complete song and how many of the times they showed up with the basic structure and worked it out together with the band? We know that Bill wrote songs and we know that Brian "had bits and pieces but no complete songs". It's very unlikely that those guys didn't play riffs, melodies and even had words that were used in some of the songs. Because, like you say James, that's how it works when you're in a band and especially a rock n roll band.

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DandelionPowderman

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Redhotcarpet

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tomcasagranda
Brian didn't write the Last Time, Pops Staples did, though

No the Staples wrote the song that is the blueprint for the Last Time. Jagger/Richards wrote the last time. Brian wrote the riff which is important to the song.

Do you have a source for that?

Yes, Keith said so in a 1965 Beat Instrumental magazine.

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jamesfdouglas
Many of you seem to know very little about songwriting with a band.

I believe 100% that Mick and Keith ripped off their own bandmates and sidemen for songwriting credit. Thanks to "Jagger/Richards" and "Lennon/McCartney" there are millions of people out there who think it's okay to allot 2 people songwriting credit for a song that was worked out by 2, 3, 4 more people.

"Working out" arrangements is NOT the same as writing a song, We've been through this.

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71Tele


"Working out" arrangements is NOT the same as writing a song, We've been through this.

That depends on whether or not the working out of arrangements changes an already written song and/or if an arrangement is used as basis for the writing of a song.

The waters of song writing, especially the way in which the stones worked, can easily get muddy.

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jamesfdouglas
Many of you seem to know very little about songwriting with a band.

I believe 100% that Mick and Keith ripped off their own bandmates and sidemen for songwriting credit. Thanks to "Jagger/Richards" and "Lennon/McCartney" there are millions of people out there who think it's okay to allot 2 people songwriting credit for a song that was worked out by 2, 3, 4 more people.

If you already have the song written, lyrics, chords, music, etc. then the rest is arrangements.

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stones78

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jamesfdouglas
Many of you seem to know very little about songwriting with a band.

I believe 100% that Mick and Keith ripped off their own bandmates and sidemen for songwriting credit. Thanks to "Jagger/Richards" and "Lennon/McCartney" there are millions of people out there who think it's okay to allot 2 people songwriting credit for a song that was worked out by 2, 3, 4 more people.

If you already have the song written, lyrics, chords, music, etc. then the rest is arrangements.

I guess that works... if you believe that every Jagger/Richards tune was done like that. It's not like we have accesss to any sources (audio or film) showing the band working out songs together before they're complete.

Oh wait...

[thepowergoats.com]

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jamesfdouglas

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stones78

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jamesfdouglas
Many of you seem to know very little about songwriting with a band.

I believe 100% that Mick and Keith ripped off their own bandmates and sidemen for songwriting credit. Thanks to "Jagger/Richards" and "Lennon/McCartney" there are millions of people out there who think it's okay to allot 2 people songwriting credit for a song that was worked out by 2, 3, 4 more people.

If you already have the song written, lyrics, chords, music, etc. then the rest is arrangements.

I guess that works... if you believe that every Jagger/Richards tune was done like that. It's not like we have accesss to any sources (audio or film) showing the band working out songs together before they're complete.

Oh wait...

Point me to an audio source where someone says "No Keith, the melody should go like this" or "Mick, this chord sounds better" or "The lyrics should be like this"...even in the Godard film the song is already written, as seen when Mick is showing the chords to Keith & Brian.

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varilla
There´s a lot of talk about this matter. We all know of an interminable list of musicians claiming that they deserve writing credits for this or that song.
You name them: Bill Wyman, Brian Jones, Mick Taylor, Billy Preston, Nicky Hopkins, Gram Parsons,etc, etc

Obviously, they have contributed and they got paid for it, but i am sure all the great songs would appear all the same without all the contributions.
Maybe they would not be the same, have another feel, etc, but the Rolling Stones would still be the Rolling Stones. What have all these musicians done when apart from Jagger/Richards? Not much in my opinion

On the other hand, lots of times the Glimmer twins shared writing credits (ronnie Wood, Mick Taylor, Chuck Leavell, Pierre de Beauport, M.Faithfull, etc) so maybe, when deserved, Mick and Keef , open themselves to sharing credits.

I would love to know if there's any verifiable info on when and how it became pretty much cast in stone (with some exception) that everything would be credited to Jagger - Richards. Seems like some sort of contractual thing that's proven very hard for people to break through. By now we know that many songs were written by one or the other. Not to mention the whole sticky point of contributions by others. Bill Wyman claims the classic riff for JJF was his. Keith's take is that coming up with a riff or a chord progression does not qualify someone for credit unless they were able to take said riff and turn it into an actual song. I see his point but would JJF even exist if not for that riff? If Bill did come up with it, he'd get credit if he were in my band. Then of course....he's not. Ronnie claims that at the time of Black and Blue, he was told he was "not qualified" to get credit for writing Hey Negrita. What does that mean, I wonder? He says he wrote it but that Jagger changed the lyrics, so he swallowed his pride and settled for an "inspired by" credit.

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His Majesty

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DandelionPowderman

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Redhotcarpet

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tomcasagranda
Brian didn't write the Last Time, Pops Staples did, though

No the Staples wrote the song that is the blueprint for the Last Time. Jagger/Richards wrote the last time. Brian wrote the riff which is important to the song.

Do you have a source for that?

Yes, Keith said so in a 1965 Beat Instrumental magazine.

Thanks!

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seitan

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boston2006

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stones78

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SweetThing
Yes, that's correct. Somehow though we still have very many Jagger solo credits.

On which songs?

Perhaps I'm in error but aren't all songs on Stones LPs credited to Jagger / Richards that they wrote ? I cannot recall seeing anything other than that credit . Unless of course there was another writer credited along with them . EG "Everything Is Turning to Gold"

Of course on their solo LPs the writing credits are solo or with other writers

There's Jagger/Richards/KD Lang song and Jagger/Richards/ Pierre DeBeaumont song on Bridges To Babylon. Sister Morphine on Sticky Fingers has been credited to Jager/Richards/Faithfull, etc ..there's plenty of co- written songs on Stones albums.

In response to the part of seitans post that is in bold ,






I agree that there are some songs co - written as you stated , I also gave an example of what you said , But in order to fully understand what you are stating you should catch up on history . Sister Morphine indeed has been credited to Jagger / Richards / Faithfull on reissues . The original LP it was not and that is my point .

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boston2006

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seitan

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boston2006

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stones78

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SweetThing
Yes, that's correct. Somehow though we still have very many Jagger solo credits.

On which songs?

Perhaps I'm in error but aren't all songs on Stones LPs credited to Jagger / Richards that they wrote ? I cannot recall seeing anything other than that credit . Unless of course there was another writer credited along with them . EG "Everything Is Turning to Gold"

Of course on their solo LPs the writing credits are solo or with other writers

There's Jagger/Richards/KD Lang song and Jagger/Richards/ Pierre DeBeaumont song on Bridges To Babylon. Sister Morphine on Sticky Fingers has been credited to Jager/Richards/Faithfull, etc ..there's plenty of co- written songs on Stones albums.

In response to the part of seitans post that is in bold ,






I agree that there are some songs co - written as you stated , I also gave an example of what you said , But in order to fully understand what you are stating you should catch up on history . Sister Morphine indeed has been credited to Jagger / Richards / Faithfull on reissues . The original LP it was not and that is my point .

But do we know that this was Mick and Keith's fault? Could be sloppy work from the record company etc.

They ( Mick & Kieth ) were well aware of what was happening . They stole that song and finally relented to give credit where credit was due after the fact .

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boston2006
They ( Mick & Kieth ) were well aware of what was happening . They stole that song and finally relented to give credit where credit was due after the fact .

Sources?

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DandelionPowderman

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boston2006
They ( Mick & Kieth ) were well aware of what was happening . They stole that song and finally relented to give credit where credit was due after the fact .

Sources?

I cannot recall at this time . I've read so many books on them that it has all run into one 3,098,746 page book . but I'm going to venture a guess and say it can be found in

[www.amazon.com]


Read this book . it's very good .

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boston2006

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DandelionPowderman

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boston2006
They ( Mick & Kieth ) were well aware of what was happening . They stole that song and finally relented to give credit where credit was due after the fact .

Sources?

I cannot recall at this time . I've read so many books on them that it has all run into one 3,098,746 page book . but I'm going to venture a guess and say it can be found in

[www.amazon.com]


Read this book . it's very good .

And how many of those books are factual objective?

I will check it out, haven't read that one. Thanks!

Music isn't something you write, it's something you play, and hopefully together with other musicians..Bob Dylan wrote the lyrics to 'Like a Rolling Stone' and suggested some chords for it, but what makes the song is Al Coopers marvellous organ...the writing credits should be given to Mr Cooper if you ask me...the lyrics is for booklovers....

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Come On
Music isn't something you write, it's something you play, and hopefully together with other musicians..Bob Dylan wrote the lyrics to 'Like a Rolling Stone' and suggested some chords for it, but what makes the song is Al Coopers marvellous organ...the writing credits should be given to Mr Cooper if you ask me...the lyrics is for booklovers....

Bollocks!

Do you know how much easier it is to add something to an already written song?

If Al came up with the parts first, and Bob wrote the rest later, it would have been another story.

Ha Ha, OK this isn't the best of examples...and it is just an example...

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Come On
Ha Ha, OK this isn't the best of examples...and it is just an example...

Yeah, but the example is valid compared to how the Stones work.

But it's the other way around. Keith makes a riff and a chord progression, then Mick developes the melody and write most of the lyrics.

At least, that's how they used to work. I suspect that nowadays, Mick does a lot more than that.

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boston2006

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Deltics

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boston2006
Although you make a valid point regarding sharing credits , you must admit that the Glimmer Twins tried to pull a fast one on several occaisions regarding credits .

EG . Sister Morphine
I Don't Know Why
Prodigal Son

These are obvious " errors in judgement " there are several others .

I Don't Know Why is not an example of the Glimmer Twins trying to "pull a fast one".
It was an error by Decca/Abkco when it was released as a 45 in 1975. Oddly enough, the demo disc had the correct composer credits: [www.45cat.com]

You are correct on the UK release , the US demo release was credited to Jagger / Richards / Taylor

That was Klein's error nothing to do with Mick and Keith. and are you sure Prodigal son was originally credited to Jagger/Richards ?

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Ket

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boston2006

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Deltics

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boston2006
Although you make a valid point regarding sharing credits , you must admit that the Glimmer Twins tried to pull a fast one on several occaisions regarding credits .

EG . Sister Morphine
I Don't Know Why
Prodigal Son

These are obvious " errors in judgement " there are several others .

I Don't Know Why is not an example of the Glimmer Twins trying to "pull a fast one".
It was an error by Decca/Abkco when it was released as a 45 in 1975. Oddly enough, the demo disc had the correct composer credits: [www.45cat.com]

You are correct on the UK release , the US demo release was credited to Jagger / Richards / Taylor

That was Klein's error nothing to do with Mick and Keith. and are you sure Prodigal son was originally credited to Jagger/Richards ?

That was what I thought I had read, too. Thanks!

Yes , the original LP release made no mention of Reverend Wilkins ,In fact LPs that do not mention Wilikins as the writer are a bit of a collectors item . Not highly valuable but a collectors item nonetheless .