Quote
Gazza
[If I'm not mistaken (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong), this means that from the first show, we have the full gig as a soundboard from various sources. From the second show, we're missing Brown Sugar, Midnight Rambler and Street Fighting Man from sbd/broadcast sources. As Mathijs has pointed out, 'All Down The Line' on the new release comes from the 2nd show, with Taylor's botched solo replaced by punching in his solo from the 1st show. The complete ADTL from the 2nd show has appeared on some bootlegs in broadcast form.

Brown Sugar, Street Fighting Man and Midnight Rambler seem to be uncirculated from the 2nd show in either audience or soundboard form. Can anyone confirm?

Good article here well worth reading - [www.rollingstonesnet.com]

Yes, that's right Gazza, apart from the fact that Star Star from the 1st show is not available in SBD quality.

Funny that you put a link to that (great) site there. Because; yesterday - I sent the owner an email on some Brussels-details he was incorrect about....which he quickly corrected, I see.

BTW - the previously "known" 6 tracks from 2nd Brussels were never broadcasted, but merely a very muddy line-recording. When circulating in 1996; it was first regarded as coming from the "2nd Antwerpen show"....since Jagger spoke in French there; unlike the 1st Brussels show, where he's speaking English. But the reason for the change of language was that the 2nd show in Brussels was played JUST for the French people....since Rolling Stones weren't allowed to play concerts there in 1973. So the tickets for the 2nd show was only sold in France. There's a nice documentary available online; about the train that was set up from France to Brussels - only because of Rolling Stones concert there. It's called the "Brussels Express" or something like that. Unfortunately....all the footage from the concert is without sound. But the silent footage is still fantastic



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2011-11-20 04:56 by Erik_Snow.

no....it was called Rolling Stones Express



[www.beatlesondvd.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-11-20 05:42 by Erik_Snow.

Quote
MileHigh
On SF who is singing counterpoint? Is that Mick Taylor, because his guitar is on the same channel.

The new version lacks a feeling of "audience and performer buzz" that the original has. The "buzz" in the original bootleg is palatable, you can feel a "rush" permeating the audience/performer/music. It's like everybody just did a fat line. lol

In the new release the vocals are much clearer. Same for the horn section and the organ, and those mysterious non-KR backing vocals.

Billy Preston perhaps?

Quote
Jah Paul
Billy Preston perhaps?

You mean on Star Star? Yes that's Billy Preston.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-11-20 05:41 by Erik_Snow.

"BTW - the previously "known" 6 tracks from 2nd Brussels were never broadcasted, but merely a very muddy line-recording. When circulating in 1996; it was first regarded as coming from the "2nd Antwerpen show"....since Jagger spoke in French there; unlike the 1st Brussels show, where he's speaking English. But the reason for the change of language was that the 2nd show in Brussels was played JUST for the French people....since Rolling Stones weren't allowed to play concerts there in 1973. So the tickets for the 2nd show was only sold in France. There's a nice documentary available online; about the train that was set up from France to Brussels - only because of Rolling Stones concert there. It's called the "Brussels Express" or something like that. Unfortunately....all the footage from the concert is without sound. But the silent footage is still fantastic"

Sorry, but the first show was for the french people : 2 trains from Paris with about 3400 french + some from Lille etc coming from their own.
I was there, and so the joker, PHD and more, they'll confirm.
On the first show Mick doesn't speak french very much : merci, bonsoir mes petits choux, 2 ou 3 nouveaux (nouvelles would be better) chansons.
On the new recording, Mick talks french a lot, he even SINGS IN FRENCH during Angie (pas le temps de dire adieu just before the 1st solo).
By the way, Bruxelles is partially a french town.

Keith's vocals on "Happy" are fantastic (as are Jagger's co-vocals)
Jagger's outro on "Tumbling Dice" is also unique; have never heard him do a little 'story':
" you know baby,when I get home, when it be early in the morning, somewhere in the afternoon, you know I need somebody to say 'come on in baby, I wanna give you a big kiss now baby come on, mother f*cker come on.."

But I can see how Taylor comes off too low in the mix. I heard it especially during "Gimme Shelter". GS '73 often sounded out of control, as it should, with overdrive; with lead guitars stepping on lead vocals. I prefer it the old way. The new GS sounds a bit reigned in.
The horns have been processed too. They have acquired that compact '89 sound;where it comes across a section, tight and professional. What I always LOVE about the early 70-72 Stones horns is that you can hear Jim and Bobby very specifiaclly, separate, a bit out of tune. "@#$%&" and "Happy" horns got that sheen where it might as well be a synth.
Speaking of "Starf*cker" I love Taylor on here; on Ch. Berry type numbers he gives Keith space (Ronnie will riff right next to Keith). Keith's guitar is moved to the center for the solo, then back to his channel. Love Charlie's Hi-Hat, especially in 3rd verse. Jagger says "If I ever get back to Jackson girl.."
Rest of GHS tracks:
"Dancing with Mr D" has the Bill's up front. Bill Wyman is carrying it; his Bass sounds like a hungry bear. Check out Billy Preston's xtra dynamics on the organ at about 2:21. Taylor going into second half of solo and Billy pushes along behind him.
"Heartbreaker" is IMO the bets live version I've heard. I never liked it live; the sections always sound rushed together; they don't seem to flow with elegance. The funk break is usually too short, and coming OUT of the break often is a train wreck. (Most performers on this forum probably know about this). But here it works. First off - Bill Wyman is outstanding! in the verses. DJ can't touch it. Then comes a good Q&A that Jagger and Billy do on "Oh yeah". The funk break Taylor wisely waits a good bit for the clavinet and Keith's guitar to establish a solid groove; then he comes in @ 3:07 with some dirt. And they actually let it build a while before coming out. You can hear Jagger pushing them along wanting the change earlier.
"Angie" is great. For starters it sounds like they took the great performance and ran them through a laundry cycle of fabric softener. A 73 live rendition of this song is normally jagged and spikey. Keith's guitar is rounded off a bit. Jager climbs up on the melody for "let me whisper in your ear" like in studio version. Then sings in French. Plus - I love Keith solo-ing at the end over the D minor changes.
YCAGWYW - I wonder so much if Jagger knew something about recording. Was there anything special about this date? He sure sings especially well on these performances; lots of unique little twists. The opening verse is stellar. And the vocal sound too. Keith is also singing very well. I read somewhere that someone was praising Keith's guitar behind the sax solo. I agree. But again - I prefer Bobby over Trevor. And once more: Bill Wyman rules.

The rest later.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2011-11-20 14:09 by Palace Revolution 2000.

Maybe I am hearing what I want to hear.

<Mathijs>

Everybody does.

Quote
Erik_Snow

BTW - the previously "known" 6 tracks from 2nd Brussels were never broadcasted, but merely a very muddy line-recording. When circulating in 1996;

These recordings were circulating longe before 1996. I have them since 1983. It was two different tapes, the 1st including (All Down The Line - Rip This Joint - Gimme Shelter - Happy - Star Star), the 2nd including (Happy - Tumbling Dice - Star Star)

by the way, happy & Star Star appeared on "Commando Raid", a bootleg LP released in 1982.

Quote
LiveAtHidepark

Quote
Erik_Snow

BTW - the previously "known" 6 tracks from 2nd Brussels were never broadcasted, but merely a very muddy line-recording. When circulating in 1996;

These recordings were circulating longe before 1996. I have them since 1983. It was two different tapes, the 1st including (All Down The Line - Rip This Joint - Gimme Shelter - Happy - Star Star), the 2nd including (Happy - Tumbling Dice - Star Star)

by the way, happy & Star Star appeared on "Commando Raid", a bootleg LP released in 1982.

So you were one of the lucky ones ;-). "First released on bootleg in 1996" is the term I should have used.

Forgot about Commando Raid, thanks



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-11-20 15:07 by Erik_Snow.

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
Keith's vocals on "Happy" are fantastic (as are Jagger's co-vocals)
Jagger's outro on "Tumbling Dice" is also unique; have never heard him do a little 'story':
" you know baby,when I get home, when it be early in the morning, somewhere in the afternoon, you know I need somebody to say 'come on in baby, I wanna give you a big kiss now baby come on, mother f*cker come on.."

But I can see how Taylor comes off too low in the mix. I heard it especially during "Gimme Shelter". GS '73 often sounded out of control, as it should, with overdrive; with lead guitars stepping on lead vocals. I prefer it the old way. The new GS sounds a bit reigned in.
The horns have been processed too. They have acquired that compact '89 sound;where it comes across a section, tight and professional. What I always LOVE about the early 70-72 Stones horns is that you can hear Jim and Bobby very specifiaclly, separate, a bit out of tune. "@#$%&" and "Happy" horns got that sheen where it might as well be a synth.
Speaking of "Starf*cker" I love Taylor on here; on Ch. Berry type numbers he gives Keith space (Ronnie will riff right next to Keith). Keith's guitar is moved to the center for the solo, then back to his channel. Love Charlie's Hi-Hat, especially in 3rd verse. Jagger says "If I ever get back to Jackson girl.."
Rest of GHS tracks:
"Dancing with Mr D" has the Bill's up front. Bill Wyman is carrying it; his Bass sounds like a hungry bear. Check out Billy Preston's xtra dynamics on the organ at about 2:21. Taylor going into second half of solo and Billy pushes along behind him.
"Heartbreaker" is IMO the bets live version I've heard. I never liked it live; the sections always sound rushed together; they don't seem to flow with elegance. The funk break is usually too short, and coming OUT of the break often is a train wreck. (Most performers on this forum probably know about this). But here it works. First off - Bill Wyman is outstanding! in the verses. DJ can't touch it. Then comes a good Q&A that Jagger and Billy do on "Oh yeah". The funk break Taylor wisely waits a good bit for the clavinet and Keith's guitar to establish a solid groove; then he comes in @ 3:07 with some dirt. And they actually let it build a while before coming out. You can hear Jagger pushing them along wanting the change earlier.
"Angie" is great. For starters it sounds like they took the great performance and ran them through a laundry cycle of fabric softener. A 73 live rendition of this song is normally jagged and spikey. Keith's guitar is rounded off a bit. Jager climbs up on the melody for "let me whisper in your ear" like in studio version. Then sings in French. Plus - I love Keith solo-ing at the end over the D minor changes.
YCAGWYW - I wonder so much if Jagger knew something about recording. Was there anything special about this date? He sure sings especially well on these performances; lots of unique little twists. The opening verse is stellar. And the vocal sound too. Keith is also singing very well. I read somewhere that someone was praising Keith's guitar behind the sax solo. I agree. But again - I prefer Bobby over Trevor. And once more: Bill Wyman rules.

The rest later.

What a great review, PR! Thank you

Quote
Palace Revolution 2000
Keith's vocals on "Happy" are fantastic (as are Jagger's co-vocals)
Jagger's outro on "Tumbling Dice" is also unique; have never heard him do a little 'story':
" you know baby,when I get home, when it be early in the morning, somewhere in the afternoon, you know I need somebody to say 'come on in baby, I wanna give you a big kiss now baby come on, mother f*cker come on.."

But I can see how Taylor comes off too low in the mix. I heard it especially during "Gimme Shelter". GS '73 often sounded out of control, as it should, with overdrive; with lead guitars stepping on lead vocals. I prefer it the old way. The new GS sounds a bit reigned in.
The horns have been processed too. They have acquired that compact '89 sound;where it comes across a section, tight and professional. What I always LOVE about the early 70-72 Stones horns is that you can hear Jim and Bobby very specifiaclly, separate, a bit out of tune. "@#$%&" and "Happy" horns got that sheen where it might as well be a synth.
Speaking of "Starf*cker" I love Taylor on here; on Ch. Berry type numbers he gives Keith space (Ronnie will riff right next to Keith). Keith's guitar is moved to the center for the solo, then back to his channel. Love Charlie's Hi-Hat, especially in 3rd verse. Jagger says "If I ever get back to Jackson girl.."
Rest of GHS tracks:
"Dancing with Mr D" has the Bill's up front. Bill Wyman is carrying it; his Bass sounds like a hungry bear. Check out Billy Preston's xtra dynamics on the organ at about 2:21. Taylor going into second half of solo and Billy pushes along behind him.
"Heartbreaker" is IMO the bets live version I've heard. I never liked it live; the sections always sound rushed together; they don't seem to flow with elegance. The funk break is usually too short, and coming OUT of the break often is a train wreck. (Most performers on this forum probably know about this). But here it works. First off - Bill Wyman is outstanding! in the verses. DJ can't touch it. Then comes a good Q&A that Jagger and Billy do on "Oh yeah". The funk break Taylor wisely waits a good bit for the clavinet and Keith's guitar to establish a solid groove; then he comes in @ 3:07 with some dirt. And they actually let it build a while before coming out. You can hear Jagger pushing them along wanting the change earlier.
"Angie" is great. For starters it sounds like they took the great performance and ran them through a laundry cycle of fabric softener. A 73 live rendition of this song is normally jagged and spikey. Keith's guitar is rounded off a bit. Jager climbs up on the melody for "let me whisper in your ear" like in studio version. Then sings in French. Plus - I love Keith solo-ing at the end over the D minor changes.
YCAGWYW - I wonder so much if Jagger knew something about recording. Was there anything special about this date? He sure sings especially well on these performances; lots of unique little twists. The opening verse is stellar. And the vocal sound too. Keith is also singing very well. I read somewhere that someone was praising Keith's guitar behind the sax solo. I agree. But again - I prefer Bobby over Trevor. And once more: Bill Wyman rules.

The rest later.

Nice, review, Palace Revolution 2000! I agree with pretty much all of it. Definitely agree about Heartbreaker live -- it usually doesn't flow all that well, and the funk break -- although funky -- feels tacked on. But this version is pretty good indeed. Bill Wyman's bass is tremendous on all songs, and the new mix serves him really well.

First, keep in mind that the tapes are nearly 40 (!!) years old. Thus in my opinion we've got a perfect mix. Further I don't understand some complainings about the downmix of MT. He is loud an clear, I can hear many new licks from him I never heard on the boot (concerning the tracks that are common to boot and official), and please don't forget: There is still another great guitarist we want to hear sometimes! For the first time we hear the Taylor-dominated version of HTW in a perfect mix, we've got now two incredible "Angies" (one from the boot and one from the official release). And: a stellar Keith-driven version of JJF. In general I appreciate their decision not to release a new mix of the classic boot. Our legend boot is almost untouched, and in addition we've got a new high quality concert on the same venue from the same day. I'm completely satisfied.

So, after 40 or so very loud listening sessions it still is a tie. This new BA release has fantastic separation, and especially the drums and bass makes it a fantastic listen. It really is the best release since Exile.

But, I prefer the guitar sound of the first show, and I still think the first show was a much better show. And with the inclusion of the London Happy, GS, Heartbreaker and SFM it really is the ultimate Rolling Stones document.

Mathijs

Quote
Mathijs
So, after 40 or so very loud listening sessions it still is a tie. This new BA release has fantastic separation, and especially the drums and bass makes it a fantastic listen. It really is the best release since Exile.

But, I prefer the guitar sound of the first show, and I still think the first show was a much better show. And with the inclusion of the London Happy, GS, Heartbreaker and SFM it really is the ultimate Rolling Stones document.

Mathijs

I'm still trying to sort through all my various editions, etc., and I haven't been this excited about a Stones new release since, well, maybe ever. But, Mathijs, I certainly get your point. Whoever first put that bootleg release together that coupled the Brussels and London had to be a FAN!

Great stuff - I have to say that the performance of TD on the original boot (one of the most sublime moments in Stones history) - is far superior to the one on the new official release - I'm talking particularly on the coda where MT builds his lead behind the main riff - then the horns come in - then he joins Keith in the main riff to bring it home - builds to a fantastic climax - the new one doesn't come close to matching that

Quote
mstmst
Great stuff - I have to say that the performance of Tumbling Dice on the original boot (one of the most sublime moments in Stones history)

Completely agree there....one the most sublime moments in Stones history

Then again - we allready have it in EX quality, so no complaints from me that it's not released officially. But it's strange that they didn't do that.....since they saw the magnificence of Midnight Rambler from the 1st show; I mean.

Quote
marclaff
By the way, Bruxelles is partially a french town.

No it's not, it's entirely Belgian.

It is IMO very interesting that we are able to discuss such varied differences in the same song, played just a few days later, or at times just a few hours. I'm referring to Tumbling Dice, and the coda. It is an ad-lib section - still, bands can slide into a repetitive rote. Not the Stones; each time it is different.
I agree btw about the rhy6thm section' on the new Bruxelles. Not only sounding great, but also performing great.

I agree with most of the comments here. Pleased to have the opportunity - for the price of a large coffee- to have the instant download too, and genuine thanks go out to the kind souls who provided the Covers too. I am enjoying listening to the downloaded Flacs finding this mix giving good separation and such clarity, I thought the CD versions of the famous Brussels show were way too 'harsh' sounding compared to the Vinyl I have in my collection. This is NOT to start a CD VS Vinyl contest - it's just whoever transferred it obviously added something (heavy compression??) into the mix.
This show (only 6 months after I saw them in 1973 in New Zealand) is not the same sloppy, out of tune songsters who put on a lacklustre performance in Auckland. They were really cooking up a storm in Europe, that's for sure. I too am looking forward to the further installments in this series, just to be able to enjoy (a) in the real order they played in, and (b) to have some of the old Bootleg vinyl updated by the Band themselves !! . Funny how they 'stole' the name of the release off the bootleggers eh!!

The last note that Taylor plays in Street Fighting Man should burst your ear drum but in this mix its barely there, its back to the old bootleg for me but nice try, its good to have something new anyway.

The whole thing still goes out of my imagination, and it will take stime to say something intelligible of it as whole. Like Mathijs said "the best relaese since EXILE" - that gives the context...

To comment the differences between (a) the bootlegs and the official release; (b) first and second shows of the day (the distinctions go partly hand in hand).

My first reaction to notice that it is not the familiar versions (expect "Midnight Rambler") was a major disappointment because the band was so incredibly hot in the 'breakfest' show - for example, "Tumblin' Dice" has never sounded so great as then. Anyway, I am happy that we got the evening versions released as well. This sould make, at least, bootleg completists happy. And even more, more I listen to them I find them unique versions as well. For example, "You Can't Always Get What You Want" is I think the best version of the song ever. Especially Jagger is singing extremily well there - better than in the first show (maybe that's the reason for picking up the latter show?), The only important difference is to be found in the guitar department in which I think the early show is clearly better. Taylor and Richards simply smokes there - one of thsose nights happens perhaps once in life time (having a proper documentation resources as well). Of course, the incredibly guitar sound and playing is probably the reason why the original BRUSELLS AFFAIR enjoys such a legendaric status, so that is a serious lack.

But now we come to the mix issue. The song that only count here is "Midnight Rambler". This is the track since I heard it first time has been the ultimate Rolling Stones performance for me. I need to say that the mixing - separating the stuff from each other clearly - does ruin a bit of the original listening experience I have had. For example, the version in my vinyl BEDSPRING SYMPHONY sounds so majestical ,and the guitars all over there. Now the guitars sound a bit thin, and the whole atmosphere lacks certain transcendental feature. Yeah, it is great to have the drums and the bass better but that doesn't quite fix the problem.

So my verdict is that it was a good decision to release the evening show, and let the early show continue its life as a legendaric bootleg (that is good enough to be listen an sich.) The second show is strong enough to convince any non-hardcore fan of the quality of the band at the time, and it adds a nixe extra to hard core completists. And now we don't have to compare track to track every song from the bootlegs to the official one - and be perhaps a bit disappointment for the guitar treatment (especially Taylor's) there. A win-win situation actually. Good to have them both.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-11-21 10:47 by Doxa.

Taylor is mixed too low in many places in my opinion, and especially on 'Gimmie Shelter' and 'Street Fighting Man' where his contributions (as with many of the other songs) is truly vital. It seems incomprehensible to me, because Taylor was such a significant part of the magic of those Brussels shows. That's not to say there aren't also examples where he truly impresses, because there are, merely that his contribution seems strangely muted in the mixing at sometimes very significant moments. Taylor certainly doesn't sound like he's noodling on this occasion, either, which is something some fans have accused him of on this tour. He sounds somehow reigned in on this Brussels Affair version. I almost feel that the mixing of this version is a case of applying present day musical sensibilities, to a seventies less conservative outlook, and that also includes in a more general sense than purely Taylor's contribution. Not that this is the first time, mind. I also felt that a little about the LADIES AND GENTLEMEN official DVD also. However,there are many significant qualities to be found on this official BRUSSELS AFFAIR release, and there remains a transcendant quality to the Stones performance that pretty much defines them as being top of their game. However, the bootleg version(s) available still remain the definite versions from this time period. I do take note of the fact that of course many of the songs originate from the evening show, as opposed to the afternoon show, so there, perhaps, is an extra buzz about how these shows compare. Doxa is of course right when he says it's good to have the both of them, and i agree with his assessment of 'You Can't Always Get What You Want'.

I can't believe my eyes!

How can one possibly say that MT is too low in the mix in the new BA release?

I am sure that very soon all these arguments will fall into some from of alleged anti MT conspiracy theory ... please stop it now!

MT is perfectly loud and clear and the mix is perfectly balanced. Fullstop.

C

I'm a great Taylor fan but I always find him a bit to loud in the mix .... great though but when I was listing to Brussels in the past at the end it was only Mick who was in front all the time ................so I'm glad with the new mix .....and I keep my Boot

__________________________

This recording is indeed a joy to behold. The contributions of Billy Preston, especially during the GHS segment is unlike anything they did before, or since. CHECK OUT the gospel organ on "Angie", of all things.

Good thread, Erik --

I like the mix a lot. I think the sound has more depth than the bootlegs and it's generally well-balanced. On the other hand, this release sounds more "managed" (because it is) -- so, sonically, it lacks the untamed engergy of the bootlegs, which may be a bit of what Doxa was talking about in Rambler. I do not think Taylor needs to be louder, at least on the solos.

As to the performance, I think it's wonderful. I'd agree that the afternoon show was a bit better on some songs, but there are very fine moments here -- in every song -- and I think Jagger sings a bit better overall here than the early show...

This is a very nice surprise.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-11-21 17:58 by texas fan.