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Sleepy City
No Sam Phillips???

another big big one. and jerry lee and johnny and elvis will have to represent sam
proudly, just like mick and keith do jimmy and john and paul do george martin.

okay the decision's made. cole porter and duke ellington in, bono and
charlie parker out.

Exile on Fame Street



(in no particular order)

"The 50 Most Iconic Figures in 20th Century Popular Music"


Robert Johnson
Frank Sinatra
Muddy Waters
Chuck Berry
Little Richard
Buddy Holly
Miles Davis
Jerry Lee Lewis
Elvis Presley
Johnny Cash
John Lennon
Paul McCartney
Jimmy Page
Mick Jagger
Keith Richards
Janis Joplin
Ella Fitzgerald
James Brown
Aretha Franklin
Jimi Hendrix
Bob Dylan
Brian Wilson
Louis Armstrong
Ray Charles
Stevie Wonder
Bob Marley
Willie Nelson
Patsy Cline
Madonna
Eminem
Phil Spector
Duke Ellington
The Edge
Kurt Cobain
Angus Young
Prince
David Bowie
Elton John
Bruce Springsteen
Cole Porter
Michael Jackson
Tammy Wynette
Nat King Cole
Billie Holliday
Barbra Streisand
BB King
Tina Turner
Hank Williams
Woody Guthrie
Joey Ramone

all done now?



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-20 11:04 by nocomment.

rockpile,lmfao

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nocomment
all done now?

It will never be all done without the artist who's had far more UK hits than anyone else, including number ones in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s & 90s (sadly the biggest hit he's had since 2000 has only made it to number 2!)...

hall & oates should be in there.

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Sleepy City

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nocomment
all done now?

It will never be all done without the artist who's had far more UK hits than anyone else, including number ones in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s & 90s (sadly the biggest hit he's had since 2000 has only made it to number 2!)...

he just didnt make enough impact in america, but what an effing career!

okay now, for extra credit, you can:

1) rank them in order. good bye so long and good luck on that one.

2) put together the running order for the triple album "exile on fame street".
one track each. we not going there neither.

interesting that FORTY of the 50 have already been inducted into the
rock and roll hall of fame. of the ten remaining, cobain and eminem are
shoo-ins, with 7 of the other 8 all having at least a chance of getting in
under the "early influence" umbrella. only streisand probably has no shot
whatsoever unless they clearly establish a "pop" category.

yes, hank williams, woody guthrie, louis armstrong, nat king cole, billie
holiday, robert johnson, bob marley, madonna, and miles davis have all already
been inducted into the rock and roll hall of fame.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-20 14:09 by nocomment.

I think the whole selection process is screwed up.

Since it became a broadcast awards show, instead of a private party where you only saw clips of it on Entertainment Tonight or MTV, they are much more concerned about getting a "balance" of artists to attract a wider audience.

In fact, Neil Young boycotted the ceremony the year Buffalo Springfield was inducted for that very reason.

To keep interest in the actual building in Cleveland as a tourist attraction for younger fans, they also keep inducting artists who have just reached the 25-year mark. I don't really think there are that many rock artists in later years who are significant enough to rate first year induction.

Especially when you look at the number of artists from the 50's/60's, and even 70's who are quickly passing away. Because new music being made now is built on everything that has come before, I think even a third-tier artist from the 60's is more important than most of the highly regarded artists from the 80's.

Those guys certainly had greater competition during their time....the Beatles, Dylan, Hendrix, etc., etc....but were still able to make a dent in the charts.

When U2 was inducted, they said something about having "jumped the queue" in front of bands like Roxy Music that have come before them. While U2 certainly deserves to be there, I find it really disturbing that there are a lot of bands who get in before their own influences.

Mott the Hoople inspired The Clash, and yet they are not in yet. Yes they deserve it. Ian Hunter is still doing amazing, incredible work. (and if they included all members of Mott, that would put latecomer to the band Mick Ronson in, who deserves induction for his entire body of work )

British bands who had a little bit of U.S. success, like Mott, Roxy Music, Slade, and T-Rex (to name a few ) have been ignored. So any UK groups that didn't cross the pond have no chance at all. Which is a shame, because some, like Johnny Kidd and the Pirates, inspired the British groups that later revived the genre and created the rock world as we know it.

I've railed about the "Small Faces/Faces" nomination this year, and I think it's just further evidence that the choices are based on either programming/marketing decisions or just plain ignorance about music history. I'm guessing that there was talk about putting the Black Crowes in (again, for the tourists with young children crowd ) but then someone pointed out their debt to the Faces...and perhaps one person with a sense of history said you can't put the Faces in before the Small Faces...oh, what the hell let's put 'em both in and get it out of the way...

If they are inducted under these terms, I hope Mac and Kenney get up there and remind them how they ignored Ronnie Lane during his lifetime and then tell them to f--k off.


Unlike baseball, the statistics for rock music (the charts) aren't always the best measure for greatness. Because the public often gets in wrong and buys up crappy music by the millions.

But a knee-jerk reaction against the charts is also unwise, and the critic's point of view is often just grounded in which acts are considered "cool." So you've basically got a code of the schoolyard in play.

Chicago isn't a cool band...but they at least have played rock (yes, along with a lot of pop and even schlock too...) during their long career. Did they belong in there before Miles Davis? Yes. The Miles Davis induction was one of their greatest leaps ever, one of the low points of the Hall's selection process. His greatness did not need validation in Cleveland, and him being there is an example of insecure people trying to impress others with their great taste in music.

And in that slot they could have inducted Delaney & Bonnie in instead, when Delaney was still alive.

I love Nat King Cole, but does he belong in the RnR HoF, even as an "influence?" I'd argue that if you were going to put someone of his type in, you'd go with Dean Martin who was a HUGE influence on Elvis, and whose "I don't give a s--t" approach is still the gold standard of attitude that punks would later aspire to.

The footage of Natalie Cole accepting the induction shows a woman who is clearly bewildered on why she is even there. On his Nat King Cole At the Sands album he emphatically does a song called "Mr. Cole Won't Rock & Roll"

He didn't even like rock. Go figure.


I say the Hall needs to make an effort to get in the earlier greats from rock's first three decades before they pass away. Younger artists aren't living on the edge the way they used to (Amy Winehouse excepted ) and they will be around for awhile, long enough to get their due. You take too much time debating the finer points of someone's career, and then one day you wake up and read that someone like Billy Preston is dead.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-20 18:08 by loog droog.

> I say the Hall needs to make an effort to get in the earlier greats from rock's
> first three decades before they pass away

that was our point from the beginning, when we got onto this thread. if there
is a significant block of fans and/or critics that remember and treasure the
contributions of a certain performer, LET THEM IN! personally no problem at
all with nat king cole or madonna as long as they're not freezing out some
less generally known figure who more rocked and rolled in the more purist
sense. LET THEM IN! there's no need for consensus or supermajority, just a
nice fat hunk of votes. so what if somebody you think isnt deserving gets in.
somebody else thinks otherwise. if they sold records and sold tickets and
are fondly remembered by many, LET THEM IN! In the end rock and roll is not
about excellence, its about joy, and they should stop being such killjoys.

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loog droog
I love Nat King Cole, but does he belong in the RnR HoF, even as an "influence?" I'd argue that if you were going to put someone of his type in, you'd go with Dean Martin who was a HUGE influence on Elvis, and whose "I don't give a s--t" approach is still the gold standard of attitude that punks would later aspire to.

Nat King Cole was a huge influence on Chuck Berry though; Chuck has often named him as his favourite singer, & I believe Chuck's clear pronounciation of lyrics (unusual in early Rhythm 'n' Blues) comes from him.

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jjsteve
hall & oates should be in there.

They're more deserving than that no-talent Eminem.

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Claire_M

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jjsteve
hall & oates should be in there.

They're more deserving than that no-talent Eminem.

thats the kind of comment that makes these kinda threads go nowhere.
hall and oates should be in there and eminem too when he gets old enuff.
lots of people dont thing hall and oates are rock and roll either.
who cares? some people like em, they rock some people's world obviously,
break down the doors and let all these treasured performers in after
they've served their 25 year sentence. cant understand this thing about
keeping people out. only understand this desire to have your favorites get in.

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nocomment

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Claire_M

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jjsteve
hall & oates should be in there.

They're more deserving than that no-talent Eminem.

thats the kind of comment that makes these kinda threads go nowhere.

....and where exactly did you see this thread going?

This thread is already going no where. That tourist attraction in Cleveland doesnt read here. Nothing posted here will change a thing, unless/until comments are directed to that music museum in Cleveland.

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Max´sKansasCity
Nothing posted here will change a thing, unless/until comments are directed to that music museum in Cleveland.

Sssssh....Max,otherwise there will be some demanding the Scorpions.....

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Sleepy City

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loog droog
I love Nat King Cole, but does he belong in the RnR HoF, even as an "influence?" I'd argue that if you were going to put someone of his type in, you'd go with Dean Martin who was a HUGE influence on Elvis, and whose "I don't give a s--t" approach is still the gold standard of attitude that punks would later aspire to.

Nat King Cole was a huge influence on Chuck Berry though; Chuck has often named him as his favourite singer, & I believe Chuck's clear pronounciation of lyrics (unusual in early Rhythm 'n' Blues) comes from him.

Right. And Ray Charles started out imitating him.

It was the Cole family "What are we even doing here??" reaction to his induction that made me single him out. He clearly had distain for the genre, so why go to the trouble of honoring him?

At least Cole was cited in the "influence" category, and not a questionable inductee who took up a slot.

I could name at least 30 artists off the top of my head that should have already been honored. While people will always find room to debate who deserves it more, there are some performers that most people take as a given that they are already in.

The name Gram Parsons pops up here alot, and he's generally considered a revered figure in music circles. But The Flying Burrito Brothers have never been nominated. And it's a shame, because Sneaky Pete passed away just a few years ago.

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loog droog
He clearly had distain for the genre, so why go to the trouble of honoring him?

So did Frank Sinatra, but everyone except me (who can't stand him) seems to want him in there...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-20 22:27 by Sleepy City.

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shortfatfanny

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Max´sKansasCity
Nothing posted here will change a thing, unless/until comments are directed to that music museum in Cleveland.

Sssssh....Max,otherwise there will be some demanding the Scorpions.....

Gotta love the Scorpions.... they rock

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Max'sKansasCity

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shortfatfanny

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Max´sKansasCity
Nothing posted here will change a thing, unless/until comments are directed to that music museum in Cleveland.

Sssssh....Max,otherwise there will be some demanding the Scorpions.....

Gotta love the Scorpions.... they rock

Maybe they roll,but never rocked...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-20 23:17 by Max'sKansasCity.

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Max'sKansasCity

Hehe...as I said,they never rocked.....not watchable here,whatever that means...

And nothing´s gonna persuade or convince me...

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shortfatfanny

Maybe they roll,but never rocked...

I'd say the opposite is true.

Three top RnR guns not in and probably won't, giving the lie to the whole place:

Link Wray
Hank Marvin
Dick Dale

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Max'sKansasCity

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nocomment
thats the kind of comment that makes these kinda threads go nowhere.

....and where exactly did you see this thread going?

as conversation, like in a bar, somewhere beyond: "your guy sucks".

a very reasonable argument was made by loog droog that the selection process
currently favors certain kinds of artists over others who also deserve inclusion
before they get swept away by time. but loog droog's solution was to manipulate
the selection process towards his kind of artists and against others, something
to which we objected, preferring a process that would get everybody's kind
of artists in...

THAT is a conversation.

"So-and-so is shit" is not a conversation. THAT is the equivalent of being
harangued by a drunk. NOBODY that has sustained significant fan and critical
interest for 25 years is shit. You may not like them, but they have PROVED
themselves a force to be reckoned with and should take their place
in The Hall of Fame.

For the record, we think the two most ridiculous exclusions at this point
are Patsy Cline and Willy Nelson, and we ain't even country.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-21 12:17 by nocomment.

no real thought, just went around with a dustpan to sweep up the
next 62 most iconic figure in 20th century popular music, mostly
from your suggestions. some of your suggestions may even be better
than these, but we didnt know enough to venture an opinion. no pic.

(in no particular order)

Gene Vincent
Nelson Riddle
Henry Mancini
Harry Belafonte
Big Mama Thorton
Jimmy Cliff
Bessie Smith
Bono
Jerry Garcia
Lou Reid
Iggy Pop
George Harrison
Johnny Rotten
Sly Stone
Diana Ross
Charlie Parker
Smokey Robinson
Judy Garland
Eric Clapton
Freddy Mercury
Bing Crosby
Marvin Gaye
Fats Domino
Toots Hibbert
Scott Joplin
Pete Townshend
Jim Morrison
Jerry Garcia
George Gershwin
Les Paul
Enrico Caruso
Luciano Pavarotti
Maria Callas
Joan Sutherland
Maybelle Carter
Leonard Bernstein
Irving Berlin
Richard Rodgers
Oscar Hammerstein
Willie Dixon
John Williams
Burt Bacharach
Count Basie
John Cage
George Martin
Sam Phillips
Neil Young
Dick Dale
Joni Mitchell
Cher
Carole King
Britney Spears
Alanis Morissette
Dolly Parton
Joan Baez
Tony Bennett
Ronnie Spector
Janet Jackson
Johnny Mathis
Ricky Nelson
Patti Page
Glenn Miller



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-21 21:24 by nocomment.

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loog droog

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shortfatfanny

Maybe they roll,but never rocked...

I'd say the opposite is true.

At least Schenker and Meine have been inducted on Hollywoods´s RockWalk last year,that´s more than enough.
Never heard of the guy in the middle...must be some local country guy...

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nocomment
For the record, we think the two most ridiculous exclusions at this point
are Patsy Cline and Willy Nelson, and we ain't even country.

which reminds of us a question we been meaning to ask all you rock and roll purists...

y'know, by far the closest thing you'll find on the radio and cable to classic
keith-richards-type rocknroll is on "modern country" stations, keith urban et al.

those fcukers are the only ones keeping your musical form alive, quite faithfully,
yet we never hear them getting any love from you purists and we don't know why.

For me, most modern country has a fake quality which is what separates someone like Dwight Yoakam or Hank Williams III from the rest. I'm likely guilty of a sweeping generalization here, but most of what I hear passing through country stations is American Idol-type crap which has as much to do with country as Pat Boone did with fifties rock 'n' roll.

As for where the closest thing to Keith could be found, I'd say in rock bands that go for a retro sound like The Black Crowes and Izzy Stradlin & the Ju-Ju Hounds if you'll turn back the clock a couple decades. It's still there, but you might have to listen to college stations to find it practiced by younger artists. Many folks here would say Jack White has that mark (Keith included) but I can't hear it the same way.

Still, a good question.