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beepee
why is Ron Paul ignored by your medias.

Probably several reasons, but perhaps one is that Paul has no problem with Iran obtaining nukes.

GREAT RESPONSE so far !!! The IORR Board is always so full of information. So interesting to see how many think the sh*t is about to hit the fan economically - please keep the comments coming!!!

I mostly find myself listening to a lot of Anne Murray.

We got nothing to eat ,
We got nowhere to work,
Nothing to drink,
We just lost our shirts,
I'm on the dole, we ain't for hire!

SAY WHAT THE HELL! SAY WHAT THE HELL!

Hang fire..

Ruse or not, the guy's comments remind me of British banker Nathan Rothschild's famous quote: “Great fortunes are made when the cannonballs are falling in the harbor, not when the violins play in the ballroom.”

JOSEPI: I can't believe that you'd boast of your speculations and consider yourself smart. Even less can I believe it when I read people encouraging speculations in times of recession as if that was a smart thing to do. Get real and responsible! Investing is one thing - i.e. supporting a business you believe will be successful; it's economically healthy; speculation is nothing but gambling and putting everyboduy at risk.

I can't believe anybody today dares present himself as a "trader", meaning by this a pure speculator. Ever heard of producing something, either goods or services? Do you really think toying with numbers is decent work? Get real!

Funny when I tried to alert ppl about this about two years ago, "I got paid back with scorn".

"IF IT'S TRUE WHAT SHOULD WE DO TO STAY SAFE AND NOT LOOSE OUR MONEY?"

Easy! Whatever wealth that is non-substantial = in the form of figures on a piece of paper is in danger. You have 5K or 50K on your bank account and you think they're safe? They're not! Buy sth with the money or get it in cash. Buying precious metals (silver gold) IS a good idea. Buying food is okay too; like 4 or 5 bags of 25K of rice.

If you have stock better sell before you lose your shirt.

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Goldsmith

Capitalism and free markets, when left to their own devices, are two of the greatest positive forces this planet has ever seen; however too much regulation and too much government have hindered growth and advancement for the forseeable future.

Sure! A car with no brakes is the safest vehicle you might imagine... The markets as they are today are a 70 tons tank with no brakes. Plus it's a tank driven by a myopic guy born with Down syndrome.

"Oh I crushed your town to debris... Sorry! Errrr... Can I refill my tank with your tax payer's moeny since I'm running out of gas"



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-01 13:05 by dcba.

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Edith Grove

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beepee
why is Ron Paul ignored by your medias.

Probably several reasons, but perhaps one is that Paul has no problem with Iran obtaining nukes.

He is ignored because he is the only one who knows about finance.... "free-markets", they ain't free at all, it's planned economy with very powerful lobbies having full command on the FED, on Goldman Sachs, on the ECB... (whose next president is an ex-Goldman Sachs).

Iran having nukes is another thing, and if you ban someone for having a non-authorized stance on that one stop calling your country a democracy. Iran has not attacked any country in centuries, unlike others.

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beepee
Iran has not attacked any country in centuries

...but they do deny the Holocaust and call for the eradication of Israel.

Getting back on topic, I agree with you on lobbying.
Too many special interests with too much influence over our lawmakers.

We need to get back to "government of the people."

Am I the only one who has noticed that there is a very poor leadership around the world. Maybe the worst leaders in modern times. Look at Europe with the likes of Berlusconi, Cameron and Sarkozy... And not to mention the pigs states: Greece is a bankrupt state. Then you have all the backward Middle East and North African states who seems only capable of producing surplus population to be taken care of by strained European well-fare systems. The future looks grim ...

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Father Ted
According to British banker Joanathan Davis, all the global banks are insolvent.

Interestingly, he said that the UK did not recover from the 1929 crash until 1954.

That's because of the Second World War. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the UK didn't recover from both the 1929 crash and paying for WW2 until the late 80s. We were so broke in the late 1970s, the government had to o to the IMF for a loan.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-01 14:09 by Nikolai.

I think the main problem is austerity.
The idea to cut government spending in a situation where the problem is insufficient demand is totally stupid. That´s the reason we are doomed. The economic system will collapse because of this.

Maybe a tour can help.

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CrissCrossMind
I've been hearing some very scary worldwide talk of the international Economic situation. A friend e-mailed me this first -







Next I Talked to a friend's dad that works at the race horse track in Southern California and he said he was talking to a VERY rich money guy that said we are going into a second, very long, MUCH WORSE recession and we ain't seen "Nothing Yet". It's gonna be bad....

Last on MSNBC this morning there was a guy who studies the nature of recessions and we won't believe what is coming next. He said it's gonna be very big, very bad, very long and there's no stopping it at this point.

ANY ECONOMICS EXPERTS AGREE WITH ALL THIS? IF IT'S TRUE WHAT SHOULD WE DO TO STAY SAFE AND NOT LOOSE OUR MONEY? Any and all advice will be appreciated (NO POLITICS AT ALL PLEASE)

this guy is a hack...he isn't even an established institutional trader...he's a trickster and a minor day trader that got into the cross hairs of some producer and got air time. He was discredited all over the place....diversify your money....get on a budget....try to keep your job and hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

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Edith Grove

...but they do deny the Holocaust and call for the eradication of Israel.

Eradication of Israel has been proved to be a hoax and an intentionnal attempt to spread around a fake information. Something like "the Sionnist regime must disappear from history" has been turned into "we need to bomb Israel". I know that US have a very poor knowledge of the Middle-east but try to check on a map, Iran dropping a nuke in Israel would succeed in wiping out Israel... and Iran.

It's been decades that CNN watchers are being fooled prior to each war, the Tonkin, the Dubai incubators, the WMD, ... dont worry, this time our president wont interfere like Chirac did.

Dear CCM

No offense meant really but even if you wrote "no politics" on your first post,you should know the way this thread is going to end :
like this one :
[www.iorr.org]
IORR isn't a good place to talk about economy .Talk about it with your friends and buddies .Not here .It's going to end one more time with US & Israël bashing and bitter remarks from ignorant left-wing people.

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Rip This

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CrissCrossMind
I've been hearing some very scary worldwide talk of the international Economic situation. A friend e-mailed me this first -







Next I Talked to a friend's dad that works at the race horse track in Southern California and he said he was talking to a VERY rich money guy that said we are going into a second, very long, MUCH WORSE recession and we ain't seen "Nothing Yet". It's gonna be bad....

Last on MSNBC this morning there was a guy who studies the nature of recessions and we won't believe what is coming next. He said it's gonna be very big, very bad, very long and there's no stopping it at this point.

ANY ECONOMICS EXPERTS AGREE WITH ALL THIS? IF IT'S TRUE WHAT SHOULD WE DO TO STAY SAFE AND NOT LOOSE OUR MONEY? Any and all advice will be appreciated (NO POLITICS AT ALL PLEASE)

this guy is a hack...he isn't even an established institutional trader...he's a trickster and a minor day trader that got into the cross hairs of some producer and got air time. He was discredited all over the place....diversify your money....get on a budget....try to keep your job and hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

Totally agree...he has his own agenda. The more he instills panic, the more money he makes because he's acknowledged he's shorting the market.

With that said, it is in EVERYONE's interest (almost everyone's) to discredit him.

The things he's saying are valid considerations...it doesn't mean he'll ultimately be right, but diversification of your money is always advisable.

There is a reason why gold hit $1800-1900 an ounce. It's not because everything is ok.

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SwayStones
US & Israël bashing and bitter remarks from ignorant left-wing people.

So de Gaulle was left-wing ?

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otonneau
JOSEPI: I can't believe that you'd boast of your speculations and consider yourself smart. Even less can I believe it when I read people encouraging speculations in times of recession as if that was a smart thing to do. Get real and responsible! Investing is one thing - i.e. supporting a business you believe will be successful; it's economically healthy; speculation is nothing but gambling and putting everyboduy at risk.

I can't believe anybody today dares present himself as a "trader", meaning by this a pure speculator. Ever heard of producing something, either goods or services? Do you really think toying with numbers is decent work? Get real!

the key to success in life is recognizing opportunity when you see it and taking advantage of it. i worked hard all my life - systems programmer for 20+ years. put myself thru college from the money i saved working in a factory. now, i am enjoying the fruits of my labor. if you can't deal with it, then too bad. but if you're going to jump my a** for it, then YOU are the loser.

here's another good example... remember those flashing tongues they sold during the Licks tour? instead of getting drunk and wasting my time, i saw the opportunity and got a license from Ohio State University.. designed and produced an OSU flashing pin. grossed $30k in 2 months, netting close to $20k. TWO MONTHS! sold 3k at $10 a pop. the only reason i didn't go full time was because my regular job paid so well.

hard work and opportunism breeds success. and as far as "smart" goes, the last time i had my IQ tested it was 152. what's yours?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-10-01 18:09 by josepi.

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beepee

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SwayStones
US & Israël bashing and bitter remarks from ignorant left-wing people.

So de Gaulle was left-wing ?

Actually , I forgot to type the word "some" .By "some" I mean that I don't think ALL left-wing people are ignorant persons.
IMO "ignorant persons are persons who always mix politics AND religion .I am sure you know what I mean.





Coming back to politics ,CCM & I totally disagree on the subject -I am not revealing any secret here,he is left wing & I am right wing (although the left wing in America isn't OUR left wing ,that's not what I would call socialism ,OK ? -but we always talked about this on the phone like civilized persons , no shouts, no bashing ...get it now ?

Concerning De Gaulle in particular & our French presidents in general , I think that I know history quite well .
You're right on one point : not only left wing people are America & Israël bashers ,but extreme right as well .
And if you are refering -not only, I know - to De Gaulle famous 1967 press conference ...yes, IMO for the 1st time in post war Europe, de Gaulle lent respectability by his words to anti Semitism .
As for bashing America, some will refer them as anti -imperialist ...I would just call it anti-American.



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

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josepi
yeah, i pretty much agree. however, i would not say so with 100% certainty. economies are driven in part by trust, so as long as enough trust exists then we will weather the storm, who knows how long. maybe long enough to recover, maybe not. unfortunately, dumb, blind trust is about all that's left to save it. it's only holding up now due to the occasional, timely gov't intervention.

More Hot Rocks is correct. by no means would i put all of my money into an rEFT, especially with a buy and hold strategy. but a small percent would reap BIG gains in a crash. i've been trading professionally for a little over two years, and casually since March, 2009. got in right after the lows. turned $10k into almost $300k after taxes. was very lucky. would have made a lot more had i been smart about it. these days, i'm out of the market but watching CNBC all day, every day. i'm by no means one of the big boys, and not one of the best traders around.. but experienced enough to know to stay out right now. all of my money is in US cash and a several ounces of gold - the real stuff, no EFT. started buying gold when i was young, it was around $35/oz back then. have bought several ounces every year since then, up until this year - it's a bubble now... may crash some more.
hard to say what is the best move. everybody is on edge. nothing is safe... not cash, not precious metals.. no one knows for sure. you might look into a hedge fund. everything is a risk. good luck to all, i hope we survive it.
if you're curious.. i bought 3k shr of LVS (Las Vegas Sands) at $1.90/shr in March '09 and sold at $51/shr. later bought 5k shr of JAZZ (Jazz pharmaceutical) at $7.50/shr, sold at $34/shr. had some other good ones, too. those were the best. March '09 was a great time to get in. best decision i ever made.

I've done some architectural design work for the Sands Corporation (they have stuff in Macao, too). What parameters did you use to make your buys? Benjamin Graham type measures?

JOSEPI, who cares about your IQ? Let me rephrase: you may be smart - but you're short of wisdom. Who cares if you worked all your life? As your fellowman, the only relevant thing for me is whether you've been ethically responsible, a decent member of the community. But someone who believes that life is about taking every break he gets without wondering whether his actions are good or bad is surely not a decent member of any community. Then you sing the chorus "it's a dog-eat-dog world"; fortunately there are others who do not see this as a fatality.

You basically tell me that you're a hard working money grabber who believes that it's every man for himself and you expect me to respect that? Why should I?

In the very old days of Socrates, Plato and Epicurus, these great minds were convinced of one thing: there is no happiness without virtue. I believe in that too. I'd pity the ruthless wolves of our days if they were not dangerous.

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More Hot Rocks
You can short stocks or buy reverse ETF's in a down market. If the market drops you can make a killing.

Do yourself a favour don't buy reverse ETFs. Not when the market goes up, not when it goes down. Read the ESMA report about it.

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otonneau
JOSEPI, who cares about your IQ? Let me rephrase: you may be smart - but you're short of wisdom. Who cares if you worked all your life? As your fellowman, the only relevant thing for me is whether you've been ethically responsible, a decent member of the community. But someone who believes that life is about taking every break he gets without wondering whether his actions are good or bad is surely not a decent member of any community. Then you sing the chorus "it's a dog-eat-dog world"; fortunately there are others who do not see this as a fatality.

You basically tell me that you're a hard working money grabber who believes that it's every man for himself and you expect me to respect that? Why should I?

In the very old days of Socrates, Plato and Epicurus, these great minds were convinced of one thing: there is no happiness without virtue. I believe in that too. I'd pity the ruthless wolves of our days if they were not dangerous.

Yeah Josepi, congrats on your success...but where is the virture. All you speak of
is what you have made for yourself. Not a single mention of giving back....is there space in your 152 to process the fuller meaning of life.... doesn't sound like it.

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otonneau
JOSEPI, who cares about your IQ? Let me rephrase: you may be smart - but you're short of wisdom. Who cares if you worked all your life? As your fellowman, the only relevant thing for me is whether you've been ethically responsible, a decent member of the community. But someone who believes that life is about taking every break he gets without wondering whether his actions are good or bad is surely not a decent member of any community. Then you sing the chorus "it's a dog-eat-dog world"; fortunately there are others who do not see this as a fatality.

You basically tell me that you're a hard working money grabber who believes that it's every man for himself and you expect me to respect that? Why should I?

In the very old days of Socrates, Plato and Epicurus, these great minds were convinced of one thing: there is no happiness without virtue. I believe in that too. I'd pity the ruthless wolves of our days if they were not dangerous.

Otonneau: Of course you are right. But I think we will have to make a difference between micro- and macroeconomics here. You can't really expect a moral decision from every individual person. However you should demand moral responsibility from your government. To expand this argument: There are no moral virtues (if you don't consider greed a virtue...) in capitalism
for example, so for a citizen in a capitalistic society you can't really expect a moral decision.

Stoneage: somehow it seems just as hopeless - more hopeless? - to expect morality from a government than from an individual. I'm French: these days do not make one optimistic. But I understand your point as: it is the government - the law - that should force individuals into acting in a moral way. And the law has, of course, to bind the governement itself (separation of powers etc).

However, although it would be insane to base a policy on the hope that individuals will be virtuous, I don't see why we should not expect them to be virtuous. On the contrary, peer pressure is vital in this respect. Compare, for instance; Sweden and France: same fiscal legislation - but France looses trememdous money from tax frauds. A french person will BOAST of having cheated on taxes as if that was cool and made him smart; but in Sweden, nobody would find that funny or even remotely acceptable. Of course there are cheaters in Sweden too I'm sure; but far, far less than in a permissive society where basically no individual considers himself morally accountable.

It's a liberal myth that a society will work even if everybody is selfish and greedy. Some anti-liberals add: it will only work if tight regulations are implemented. I believe however, that although laws are necessary, they will be inefficient in a society that has no genuine sense of morality. Ultimately it is only a genuine TASTE for morality that enables people to overcome the temptations that we all have, of course. Humans are not fully rational: to give a good REASON to someone to be honest (i.e. if you're dishonest the Gov't will get your ass and ultimately you'll lose out) is never enough.

At some level, it's inclination (virtue) vs inclination (greed); if that struggle's in place, the law can tip the balance. But without virtue (as in, personal inclination towards the good) there is no morality (as in, a life lived according to good rules).


UK (where I live now, after having lived in Sweden) is far from a perfect place. It might actually be falling apart. BUT they have this sort of civism that will, in the long run, pull them through. Hopefully!

OK I got all fired up here!