Mick on Voodoo Lounge (as quoted from the Jagger Remembers article):


WENNER:
You told me when you started to make the record that you were going to spend a lot of time on this one, making as good a record as you could possibly make, making sure you’ve got the songs written in advance. You hired a producer, which you hadn’t done for a long time. Do you feel that you’ve met that expectation?

JAGGER:
Not completely. But may be we should list the positive things rather than the negative. I think there is a really good feeling of the band on it – that the band is playing very much as a band, even though it’s got one new member [bassist Darryl Jones]. There’s a good variety of songs. It’s not overelaborate. You get a feeling of really being there, and it’s quite intimate in nature. The ballads are rather nice, and then the rock & roll numbers kick quite well and sound enthusiastic – like we’re into it. I think it’s a good frame of reference of what the Rolling Stones were about during that quite limited time in Ireland in that year.It’s very much a kind of time-and-place album. In that way I was quite pleased with the results. But there were a lot of things that we wrote for “Voodoo Lounge” that Don [Was, the record’s producer] steered us away from: groove songs, African influences and things like that. And he steered us very clear of all that. And I think it was a mistake.





When I hear outtakes like "Middle Sea"...(which is one of my favorite outtakes) it's easy to hear the African influence that Mick is suggesting. Had this been included on Voodoo Lounge...along with other more grounded grooves...could this album been much more than it was? I think if Mick went with his instincts and not listen to Don Was...and added 1 or 2 of Keith's solo acoustic performances...Cocaine probably being the obvious choice..we could've gotten quite the eclectic album.





In one of the Voodoo Brew outtakes you can hear Mick answer to the question "How many songs do you have?" with "Oh loads! Box set loads!" Could VL have been a double album? We have a whole disc of instrumentals--no vocals recorded...songs from "Alright Charlie" to a bunch of Untitled ones. Was Voodoo Lounge going to be bigger than it was?

With a deletion of a couple clunkers on the album and the inclusion of this outtake plus a few other songs...I think we could've gotten-- dare I say it...a possible late-career masterpiece?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-09 22:42 by Justin.

Totally agree.

Puts voodoo rhythm into the bar, doesn't it?

Maybe that's why Don Was is pushing to release some outtakes next year. Something that was also planned for 1999. It'll happen at some point.

yeah, the whole thing about mick never looking back etc is a bit overblown.he'll definitely do it if he's in the mood[the album nights with the 3 song mini-sets and showing the cover on the big screen, the exile thing]but i think i agree with you.this is one time he shouldve kept the band moving forward.

voodoo was such a missed opportunity.everything from the idiot record company releasing it against the lion king soundtrack which sold a billion copies and gave VL a #2 opening despite great sales.a better release date wouldve given them their first #1 since tattoo you.

even the cover art,they shouldve used the mask pictures that appeared in rs magazine instead of that lame cartoon thing.the music itself?it couldve went so much more right.if i think of the closest we came to the home run since 1981 thats the record.the tour actually was a homerun.

While it'd be nice to get the rest of the outtakes from VL released some day...(can we hope for a Deluxe treatment ala Exile and Some Girls in the future?...haha prolly not)...I am more disturbed by the fact that the album itself could have been something more than it turned out.

Had Mick stuck to his guns and gotten that mix of different sounds going on...actually finished all those other songs...we could've actually been dealing with the only other double album that could've competed up against Exile.

Yeah, Middle Sea belonged on VL.

love middle sea excellent tune

More experimental sounds would never have stayed as raw as "Middle Sea," it would have been closer to BRIDGES TO BABYLON. That's the album that stretched the formula as much as VOODOO LOUNGE was all about the formula.

Personally, I love both albums but I realize most here are at least critical of one or both.

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WilliamPatrickMaynard
More experimental sounds would never have stayed as raw as "Middle Sea," it would have been closer to BRIDGES TO BABYLON. That's the album that stretched the formula as much as VOODOO LOUNGE was all about the formula.

Personally, I love both albums but I realize most here are at least critical of one or both.

I absolutely love both albums as well. They probabyly rank as my top 2 best of all the later/post'81 studio output.

Voodoo Lounge is pretty focused and stays on track as that formulaic rock album. There are some true fresh moments sprinkled throughout "Love Is Strong" "Moon Is Up" "Thru and Thru" and "The Worst" to be exact. Removing the filler, "Sparks Will Fly" "New Faces" "Baby Break It Down" for "Middle Sea" "Cocaine" plus expanding on the other unfinished songs, would have made this album bulletproof, in my book. It would be ultimately cool if MIck felt the same way and decided to rework this album and re-release a special "Director's Cut" of this album as he originally forsaw it. We know that wouldn't happen in a million years....but to hear "Middle Sea" again and to read Mick's dissapoint about the "album that could have been"...it's a little heartbreaking that VL could have been something much much bigger than it was. Great album...could've been actually amazing, in the truest sense of the word.

I thought it was "Middle C" as in:

[en.wikipedia.org]

yes, these are quite good.

I would have been happy with these two, a more finalized Middle Sea and even keep Cocaine Blues as is, and toss out about 4-5 songs.

A late career masterpiece is accurate.

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Justin
Mick on Voodoo Lounge (as quoted from the Jagger Remembers article):


WENNER:
You told me when you started to make the record that you were going to spend a lot of time on this one, making as good a record as you could possibly make, making sure you’ve got the songs written in advance. You hired a producer, which you hadn’t done for a long time. Do you feel that you’ve met that expectation?

JAGGER:
Not completely. But may be we should list the positive things rather than the negative. I think there is a really good feeling of the band on it – that the band is playing very much as a band, even though it’s got one new member [bassist Darryl Jones]. There’s a good variety of songs. It’s not overelaborate. You get a feeling of really being there, and it’s quite intimate in nature. The ballads are rather nice, and then the rock & roll numbers kick quite well and sound enthusiastic – like we’re into it. I think it’s a good frame of reference of what the Rolling Stones were about during that quite limited time in Ireland in that year.It’s very much a kind of time-and-place album. In that way I was quite pleased with the results. But there were a lot of things that we wrote for “Voodoo Lounge” that Don [Was, the record’s producer] steered us away from: groove songs, African influences and things like that. And he steered us very clear of all that. And I think it was a mistake.





When I hear outtakes like "Middle Sea"...(which is one of my favorite outtakes) it's easy to hear the African influence that Mick is suggesting. Had this been included on Voodoo Lounge...along with other more grounded grooves...could this album been much more than it was? I think if Mick went with his instincts and not listen to Don Was...and added 1 or 2 of Keith's solo acoustic performances...Cocaine probably being the obvious choice..we could've gotten quite the eclectic album.





In one of the Voodoo Brew outtakes you can hear Mick answer to the question "How many songs do you have?" with "Oh loads! Box set loads!" Could VL have been a double album? We have a whole disc of instrumentals--no vocals recorded...songs from "Alright Charlie" to a bunch of Untitled ones. Was Voodoo Lounge going to be bigger than it was?

With a deletion of a couple clunkers on the album and the inclusion of this outtake plus a few other songs...I think we could've gotten-- dare I say it...a possible late-career masterpiece?

Rubin probably saved that record from more embarrassments. It could not have been a double album, IMO. Love is strong is really the only "real" and "new" song. Maybe Rubin went thru the vaults and suggested a remake of Wicked as it seems combined with Gold painted nails.

It could have been quite an eclectic album, yes. But maybe not quite as substanstial, and that's what I think Don Was went for: a good over-all album.

The result is a middle-of-the-road album for sure, without wild experiments, but focusing on song-writing. For me, it's still their best later-carreer album. For all things about the Stones, I care most for their songwriting.

Maybe Middle Of The Sea is a nice groove, but there is not very much "composition" to it.

Voodoo Lounge was a double album on vinyl.

If they'd got too experimental how could they have reproduced it live and kept a stadium crowd interested? LIke all recent albums VL was an excuse to tour behind and make money not an artistic exercise, probably one of Micks frustrations which is why he's done Superheavy.

I think the cover art for voodoo is their most orginal. I like it a lot.

"The ballads are rather nice, and then the rock & roll numbers kick quite well and sound enthusiastic – like we’re into it."

Doing it for the money then Mick? They weren't truly into it. Voodoo sounds like the Stones imitating trying to sound like Exile. It's a pretty bland album with a few exceptions - Love Is Strong, Out Of Tears, Brand New Car, Moon Is Up and The Worst.

Voodoo Lounge runs 62:08. Exile is 67:17. Bridges is 62:27 and A Bigger Bang is 64:23. So really they're all double albums.

Middle Of The Sea is very dull. Perhaps if it had been finished but that version is quite yawn inducing.

Rubin? As in Rick Rubin? Go back and read the liner notes.

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The GR
Voodoo Lounge was a double album on vinyl.

If they'd got too experimental how could they have reproduced it live and kept a stadium crowd interested? LIke all recent albums VL was an excuse to tour behind and make money not an artistic exercise, probably one of Micks frustrations which is why he's done Superheavy.

Seriously? how many tracks from that album did they even attempt live?

Love Is Strong
You Got Me Rocking
Sparks Will Fly
The Worst
Out Of Tears
I Go Wild

Moon Is Up at least one show... any else? Didn't they play Jump On Top Of Me once on the 1995 tour?

How many for the Exile tour? I dunno.
Rocks Off
Rip This Joint
Happy
Tumbling Dice
Sweet Virginia
All Down The Line

Any more?

Brand New Car was done in Wash. D.C., Moon Is Up @ Shep Bush and Thru and Thru was a regular during Licks tours.

From Exile, Loving Cup a bunch, Ventilator Blues the first show or two of the tour as was Torn and Frayed which was done again at Toronto opener for Licks tour, Stop Breaking Down @ Miami PPV and Soul Survivor has been played many times, but they keep insisting on calling it Rock in a Hard Place.

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DragonSky
Love Is Strong
You Got Me Rocking
Sparks Will Fly
The Worst
Out Of Tears
I Go Wild

Moon Is Up at least one show... any else? Didn't they play Jump On Top Of Me once on the 1995 tour?

How many for the Exile tour? I dunno.
Rocks Off
Rip This Joint
Happy
Tumbling Dice
Sweet Virginia
All Down The Line

Any more?

I think I recall Loving Cup as well.

Look, the issue put forth is that they didn't want to record a more 'experimental' album, because it would be harder to tour behind, and play tracks live. That's a load of crap. Even the songs you picked, weren't all at the same show. It's not like 1978 when they did half to 3/4's of the album in one show.

So I'm with Mick...a little disappointed they didn't get more creative on VL. It would have benefited.

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Redhotcarpet
Rubin probably saved that record from more embarrassments. It could not have been a double album, IMO. Love is strong is really the only "real" and "new" song. Maybe Rubin went thru the vaults and suggested a remake of Wicked as it seems combined with Gold painted nails.

Ha..well if Rubin produced this album there's a strong chance he would've made Mick get rid of the "Sharks will cry" lyric.....

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Blueranger
It could have been quite an eclectic album, yes. But maybe not quite as substanstial, and that's what I think Don Was went for: a good over-all album.

The result is a middle-of-the-road album for sure, without wild experiments, but focusing on song-writing. For me, it's still their best later-carreer album. For all things about the Stones, I care most for their songwriting.

Maybe Middle Of The Sea is a nice groove, but there is not very much "composition" to it.

I would've liked to have seen the album pushed more though. Like I said...it turned out to be a good album...I'm not sure reworking the album and adding a few more exotic tunes would have actually taken away from it....it would've just added to the experience. They sort of went through these grooves and feels a little bit on Steel Wheels. I think here they could have perfected it. The main issue is that I feel the album is quite one dimensional. Had Mick gotten his way and added a few more angles on it...an eclectic batch of say 18 songs...I think the album would have more to say.

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The GR
Voodoo Lounge was a double album on vinyl.

If they'd got too experimental how could they have reproduced it live and kept a stadium crowd interested? LIke all recent albums VL was an excuse to tour behind and make money not an artistic exercise, probably one of Micks frustrations which is why he's done Superheavy.

Well it's a package deal. If the Vegas-era Stones actually had any integrity...they wouldn't care how experimental the album would get...they would find a way to reproduce it on stage. ANY band would feel that way. But we're not talking crazy out there stuff. Whatever "experimental" they could've come up with in the studio....they would most likely be able to duplicate on stage. We're not talking about crazy/out of this world effects or weird crazy instruments...but mainly the songwriting. Had they believed in (any) of their new matrial....they'd WANT to put it on stage. Still though, we could've gotten the album I'm envisioning and still have them tour behind considering I'm supporting keeping many of the tracks they eventually went on to play live: "Love Is Strong" "I Go Wild" "You Got Me Rocking" etc. So...there's technically a whole of album left over on the disc that they don't have to play.

This is all crazy hypothetical though. Obviously none of this happened. But considering we see now that actually Mick was trying to go this direction....I wish they did.

VL was a kind of bastard, it started with a "back to the roots"-approach, but in the end the production and choice of songs were commercialized, probably under the pressure of representing their first album under the multi-million $ Virgin-deal. They were just not brave enough to produce "Exile II" (or whatever you may label it) at this point.

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retired_dog
VL was a kind of bastard, it started with a "back to the roots"-approach, but in the end the production and choice of songs were commercialized, probably under the pressure of representing their first album under the multi-million $ Virgin-deal. They were just not brave enough to produce "Exile II" (or whatever you may label it) at this point.

Great points. I normally don't entertain the "what-if" scenarios but revisiting some of the outtakes from these sessions recently...it got me thinking about how much this album could have been something else. It strikes me because I already love VL as the album it turned out to be...the nucleus of something special is there...it's a shame it didn't come into full fruition.

totaly agree

I'd like to add that I don't believe for a minute that Don Was ever had the power to steer away the Stones from anything they really want to do. Let's not forget that an album like Exile which presents a whole musical universe with it's variety of styles and richness of sounds took years in development when unused song ideas dating back to as early as 1969 and freshly written and recorded material finally fell together and gelled in the finished piece of art.

The VL outtakes show that the Stones were onto something at the time, but probably the time frame was too short to let it develop into something really big. It's probably just impossible to recreate an Exile-like experience in the relatively short time frame of a couple of weeks of writing and recording sessions. Whatever, in the end they played safe and delivered an album that did not fulfil what was in them at the time.

Had they started work on VL a couple of years earlier, things might have turned out different, in particular when one considers the fact that some great songs that ended on solo albums like Hate It When You Leave or Evening Gown (to name just two!) could have propelled VL into the stratosphere of all-time classic Stones albums. As it is, it's not bad, but a wasted opportunity nonetheless.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-10 23:56 by retired_dog.

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retired_dog
I'd like to add that I don't believe for a minute that Don Was ever had the power to steer away the Stones from anything they really want to do. Let's not forget that an album like Exile which presents a whole musical universe with it's variety of styles and richness of sounds took years in development when unused song ideas dating back to as early as 1969 and freshly written and recorded material finally fell together and gelled in the finished piece of art.

The VL outtakes show that the Stones were onto something at the time, but probably the time frame was too short to let it develop into something really big. It's probably just impossible to recreate an Exile-like experience in the relatively short time frame of a couple of weeks of writing and recording sessions. Whatever, in the end they played safe and delivered an album that did not fulfil what was in them at the time.

Had they started work on VL a couple of years earlier, things might have turned out different, in particular when one considers the fact that some great songs that ended on solo albums like Hate It When You Leave or Evening Gown (to name just two!) could have propelled VL into the stratosphere of all-time classic Stones albums. As it is, it's not bad, but a wasted opportunity nonetheless.

Agree completely. Your last line is something I'm just "coming to terms" with now. Sure we can say a few other albums were "missed opportunities" but here with VL, we have the evidence, we can hear the other stuff that was recorded/unfinsihed. It's clear just how much work they had put into VL before they abandoned/scrapped their original vision.

Even with all these changes and the finished product being this wonderful array of different sounds I do not believe it could really have been "the next" Exile. It's clear Exile is on a world on its own---unmatched even by them. But at least, VL could have been a moment where they actually TRIED something fresh again...maybe with the intent to rival Exile. That's really all I'm looking for with these guys. The intent/motivation to write something substantial. My looking at the finished VL coupled with the the unfinished tracks they left behind tells me for once that like you said: they "were onto something." Maybe even a small "creative explosion"? Who knows.

It's funny how one's opinion on an album can change over time. Like I said, VL is a strong album. It fascinates me that the album could have been something quite different. It's true...where there's smoke..there's a fire. They almost made something really special with VL...but in the end they copped out.

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Justin

Quote
retired_dog
I'd like to add that I don't believe for a minute that Don Was ever had the power to steer away the Stones from anything they really want to do. Let's not forget that an album like Exile which presents a whole musical universe with it's variety of styles and richness of sounds took years in development when unused song ideas dating back to as early as 1969 and freshly written and recorded material finally fell together and gelled in the finished piece of art.

The VL outtakes show that the Stones were onto something at the time, but probably the time frame was too short to let it develop into something really big. It's probably just impossible to recreate an Exile-like experience in the relatively short time frame of a couple of weeks of writing and recording sessions. Whatever, in the end they played safe and delivered an album that did not fulfil what was in them at the time.

Had they started work on VL a couple of years earlier, things might have turned out different, in particular when one considers the fact that some great songs that ended on solo albums like Hate It When You Leave or Evening Gown (to name just two!) could have propelled VL into the stratosphere of all-time classic Stones albums. As it is, it's not bad, but a wasted opportunity nonetheless.

Agree completely. Your last line is something I'm just "coming to terms" with now. Sure we can say a few other albums were "missed opportunities" but here with VL, we have the evidence, we can hear the other stuff that was recorded/unfinsihed. It's clear just how much work they had put into VL before they abandoned/scrapped their original vision.

Even with all these changes and the finished product being this wonderful array of different sounds I do not believe it could really have been "the next" Exile. It's clear Exile is on a world on its own---unmatched even by them. But at least, VL could have been a moment where they actually TRIED something fresh again...maybe with the intent to rival Exile. That's really all I'm looking for with these guys. The intent/motivation to write something substantial. My looking at the finished VL coupled with the the unfinished tracks they left behind tells me for once that like you said: they "were onto something." Maybe even a small "creative explosion"? Who knows.

It's funny how one's opinion on an album can change over time. Like I said, VL is a strong album. It fascinates me that the album could have been something quite different. It's true...where there's smoke..there's a fire. They almost made something really special with VL...but in the end they copped out.

Agree completely! Well, "next Exile" was probably too big a word as, like you said, Exile truly is on a world on its own - I just wanted to express that VL could have been an album that stands proudly alongside their classic albums. As things are, Tattoo You is widely regarded as their last truly great album, but there was a chance that VL could have taken over this role in the Stones album canon.

Great general comments on the VL era, all.

Listening to the track Middle Sea (albeit only once and while doing other things). it seems disjointed and arhythmic like it was spliced together badly. I'll have to listen to it again. It does seem silly to have an album called Voodoo Lounge and to have pushed away songs with an African/carribean/groove feel, doesn't it?