....simply one of the best!

This proves very well that Mick can do a consert playing a whole new record without major Stones hits.

"i was very relaxed about this record,no overall atmosphere of hosility"
--mick jagger on wandering spirit


you can make of that what you will,but to me it shoots down chuck leavells latest claim that tension between mick and keith is good for the band.he must've meant its good for him because it justifies his existence.
just as i remember keith during the winos saying that he couldnt think of anything to write about so steve jordan told him"write about mick"
i believe there are alot of people with a vested interest in keeping those two fighting.

i totally disagree that these songs might not have been as good with the stones playing on them.if mick and keith were in lockstep and used the best songs from that era[wandering spirit,main offender,voodoo lounge}and had a good producer to weed them out we couldve had a record nearly as good as anything theyve ever done.

his website gives a good rundown of each solo record and what he was going for at the time,listing the musicians involved, the producer etc..
reading it you can really see what a joke the old"micks leaving the stones to try to become a solo star"stuff was.he was really trying to take the music somewhere else each time out.call me crazy but i dont think think people experiment when they're shooting for mainstream success.

It was funny in 1994 to hear Voodoo Lounge in 1994. It didn't artistically top Wandering Spirit at all. It truly made me think "maybe Keith and the rest are actually holding him back from making good music now". The dry, unfinished sounding non-song album Main Offender for me was a clue to that.

Funny how the two best songs on Bridges to Babylone, Saint of Me and Out of Control, were actually Jagger solo songs meant for his follow-up to Wandering Spirit.

But the ca$h cow got hungry and we ended up with a weird mess of an album with 3 (2 too many) Keith-croakers on it, and the album never came to be.

[thepowergoats.com]

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jamesfdouglas
It was funny in 1994 to hear Voodoo Lounge in 1994. It didn't artistically top Wandering Spirit at all. It truly made me think "maybe Keith and the rest are actually holding him back from making good music now". The dry, unfinished sounding non-song album Main Offender for me was a clue to that.

Funny how the two best songs on Bridges to Babylone, Saint of Me and Out of Control, were actually Jagger solo songs meant for his follow-up to Wandering Spirit.

But the ca$h cow got hungry and we ended up with a weird mess of an album with 3 (2 too many) Keith-croakers on it, and the album never came to be.

Fully agree. Right on the mark! Excellent analysis.

Had that same strange feeling in 1994 when I first listened to Voodoo Lounge. After Wandering Spirit my expections were high for the next Stones album, and when it arrived, my thoughs were like: "How in the world is it possible that Mick can produce a far better Stones (-style) album without Keith, Ron and Charlie?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-17 04:50 by retired_dog.

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loog droog
Mick turned 50 that year, and I think he was out to prove that he still "had it."

He did.

Yep. No Streets Of Shit yet coming out of that mouth. Although, to be fair, we would get Always Suffering 4 years later.

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retired_dog

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jamesfdouglas
It was funny in 1994 to hear Voodoo Lounge in 1994. It didn't artistically top Wandering Spirit at all. It truly made me think "maybe Keith and the rest are actually holding him back from making good music now". The dry, unfinished sounding non-song album Main Offender for me was a clue to that.

Funny how the two best songs on Bridges to Babylone, Saint of Me and Out of Control, were actually Jagger solo songs meant for his follow-up to Wandering Spirit.

But the ca$h cow got hungry and we ended up with a weird mess of an album with 3 (2 too many) Keith-croakers on it, and the album never came to be.

Fully agree. Right on the mark! Excellent analysis.

Had that same strange feeling in 1994 when I first listened to Voodoo Lounge. After Wandering Spirit my expections were high for the next Stones album, and when it arrived, my thoughs were like: "How in the world is it possible that Mick can produce a far better Stones (-style) album without Keith, Ron and Charlie?

Exactly my thoughts as well at the time. I got strange feeling that while many consired VOODOO LOUNGE as 'back to the form', The Stones sounding like the Stones, I thought it was rather boring and half-baked effort (especially in lyrics section). like they don't even bother to try very hard any longer. I never bought the idea that quantity over quality either. VOODOO LOUNGE surely was not EXILE.

Yeah, I truely believe - like I argued in the other thread - that The Stones is artistically a prison for Mick's muse actually. He seemingly needs to lock out his creative, curious mind when enters a Stones session. Perhaps just not wanting to pointlessly argue with Keith. And his lack of producing much new music with the Stones at all since VOODOO speaks volumes of that, too. Not that I think of very highly of GODDESS or ALFIE I see them much better and interesting efforts than the FORTY LICKS songs or A BIGGER BANG. And seemingly MIck got isnpired much more with EXILE project than with any current Stones activities, and that can be heard in results. I think he put more creative energy to "Plundered My Soul" than anything since, say, "Out of Control" or "Saint of Me". Seemingly that gave a templete that was quite different, and creatively more challenging than whatever he can do with Keith and the rest nowadays. Maybe it was ideal to him that Keith has done his contribution to the track 40 or so years ago...

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-17 09:12 by Doxa.

On the other hand - Keith also made TWO solo records far better than the Stones albums from that era. So one could say that it is the big title and marquee name "Rolling Stones" that cramps them both.

jamesfdouglas
It was funny in 1994 to hear Voodoo Lounge in 1994. It didn't artistically top Wandering Spirit at all. It truly made me think "maybe Keith and the rest are actually holding him back from making good music now". The dry, unfinished sounding non-song album Main Offender for me was a clue to that.

Funny how the two best songs on Bridges to Babylone, Saint of Me and Out of Control, were actually Jagger solo songs meant for his follow-up to Wandering Spirit.


The best song on B2B is imo How Can I Stop. Saint Of Me sounds like a good Jagger solo number, and OOC is unfinished on B2B, but evolved later to be a killer live number.

Concerning Main Offender, songs like Wicked As It Seems, Words Of Wonder, Eileen, Hate It When You Leave and Demon are very, very good songs.

A good album with great sound, with a couple of unfinished stinkers might be a better description of Main Offender imo.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-17 12:14 by DandelionPowderman.

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DandelionPowderman
jamesfdouglas
It was funny in 1994 to hear Voodoo Lounge in 1994. It didn't artistically top Wandering Spirit at all. It truly made me think "maybe Keith and the rest are actually holding him back from making good music now". The dry, unfinished sounding non-song album Main Offender for me was a clue to that.

Funny how the two best songs on Bridges to Babylone, Saint of Me and Out of Control, were actually Jagger solo songs meant for his follow-up to Wandering Spirit.


The best song on B2B is imo How Can I Stop. Saint Of Me sounds like a good Jagger solo number, and OOC is unfinished on B2B, but evolved later to be a killer live number.

Concerning Main Offender, songs like Wicked As It Seems, Words Of Wonder, Eileen, Hate It When You Leave and Demon are very, very good songs.

A good album with great sound, with a couple of unfinished stinkers might be a better description of Main Offender imo.

Well, I never been a big fan of MAIN OFFENDER. I thought it just sounded TALK IS CHEAP Take Two (and Keith just did it because Mick did a solo album, too), and it was clearly left to the shadow of WANDERING SPIRIT at the time. There are some really good songs. "Hate It When You Leave", "Words of Wonder", even "Yap Yap" is great in its minimality, but I think over-all the album leaves the impression that Keith just can't keep the exitment on for a whole album. Something is terribly missing. The songs are mostly just sketches and way too familair riff-circulations that starts sound if not annoying but at least boring and monotonic after a while. I can very well understand Mick's point that Keith's album sounds like typical Stones songs Keith leaves for Mick to finish. That missing part is a crucial thing to lift the songs to greatness (or even to songs)- I think that is the lesson to be heard in listening to MAIN OFFENDER. It is no wonder why Keith hasn't been keen of making another solo album ever since. I think he is also tired to circulate all those iconic but forced open tuning five string riffs, and is more keen on doing his more reflective, moodie ballads.

Hmm.. is it still better than VOODOO LOUNGE? I don't know of that, but at least its best tunes are clearly better than anything in VOODOO... There is nothing matching to the depthness of "Hate iT When You Leave" or "Words of Wonder" in VOODOO, so maybe it is also that Keith needs to make compromises when working within The Stones templete. Yeah, "How Can I Stop" is clearly better than anything in VOODOO either, and right there with Jagger's "Out of Control" and "Saint of Me".

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-17 12:42 by Doxa.

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman
jamesfdouglas
It was funny in 1994 to hear Voodoo Lounge in 1994. It didn't artistically top Wandering Spirit at all. It truly made me think "maybe Keith and the rest are actually holding him back from making good music now". The dry, unfinished sounding non-song album Main Offender for me was a clue to that.

Funny how the two best songs on Bridges to Babylone, Saint of Me and Out of Control, were actually Jagger solo songs meant for his follow-up to Wandering Spirit.


The best song on B2B is imo How Can I Stop. Saint Of Me sounds like a good Jagger solo number, and OOC is unfinished on B2B, but evolved later to be a killer live number.

Concerning Main Offender, songs like Wicked As It Seems, Words Of Wonder, Eileen, Hate It When You Leave and Demon are very, very good songs.

A good album with great sound, with a couple of unfinished stinkers might be a better description of Main Offender imo.

Well, I never been a big fan of MAIN OFFENDER. I thought it just sounded TALK IS CHEAP Take Two (and Keith just did it because Mick did a solo album, too), and it was clearly left to the shadow of WANDERING SPIRIT at the time. There are some really good songs. "Hate It When You Leave", "Words of Wonder", even "Yap Yap" is great in its minimality, but I think over-all the album leaves the impression that Keith just can't keep the exitment on for a whole album. Something is terribly missing. The songs are mostly just sketches and way too familair riff-circulations that starts sound if not annoying but at least boring and monotonic after a while. I can very well understand Mick's point that Keith's album sounds like typical Stones songs Keith leaves for Mick to finish. That missing part is a crucial thing to lift the songs to greatness (or even to songs)- I think that is the lesson to be heard in listening to MAIN OFFENDER. It is no wonder why Keith hasn't been keen of making another solo album ever since. I think he is also tired to circulate all those iconic but forced open tuning five string riffs, and is more keen on doing his more reflective, moodie ballads.

Hmm.. is is still better than VOODOO LOUNGE? I don't know of that, but at least its best tunes are clearly better than anything in VOODOO... There is nothing matching to the depthness of "Hate iT When You Leave" or "Words of Wonder" in VOODOO, so maybe it is also that Keith needs to make compromises when working within The Stones templete. Yeah, "How Can I Stop" is clearly better than anything in VOODOO either, and right there with Jagger's "Out of Control" and "Saint of Me".

- Doxa

I agree with your points, Doxa. The only thing I can't see is that more than two or three numbers are half-baked on Main Offender (999, Running Too Deep, Will But You Won't).

IMO, The Worst is often forgotten, when we talk about Voodoo Lounge. It's a beautiful piece of music, imo. Very well played and written, with a touching glimmer twins-collaboration on the bridge there.

Hogwarts. There's nothing half-baked on MAIN OFFENDER. It's still a better album than Jagger's three out of four solo albums, and arguably as good as WANDERING SPIRIT. To this day I still like it better than TALK IS CHEAP - but barely. I find both LPs to be great albums. The big clunker on MO is Yap Yap; Keith needs to keep his little snide comments out of songs, not make a song out of them.

Easily the best songs on BTB are Flip The Switch, Lowdown, You Don't Have To Mean It, Thief In The Night and How Can I Stop. There are some other good songs but they aren't great. Saint Of Me isn't "great". It reeks of trying too hard.

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DragonSky
Hogwarts. There's nothing half-baked on MAIN OFFENDER. It's still a better album than Jagger's three out of four solo albums, and arguably as good as WANDERING SPIRIT. To this day I still like it better than TALK IS CHEAP - but barely. I find both LPs to be great albums. The big clunker on MO is Yap Yap; Keith needs to keep his little snide comments out of songs, not make a song out of them.

Easily the best songs on BTB are Flip The Switch, Lowdown, You Don't Have To Mean It, Thief In The Night and How Can I Stop. There are some other good songs but they aren't great. Saint Of Me isn't "great". It reeks of trying too hard.

Having Running Too Deep and Will But You Won't right after eachother on the same album - with the same riff - is half-baked by itself. Apart from that I agree with much of you post, although I like Talk Is Cheap a bit more than MO.

That is funny. They sound very similar. They are very similar. Had they been split up a bit... but I still like both. He obviously liked them too!

It would've been "one of their best" if it was released as a Stones album.

His recent pink suit sighting would have been loved by all if it had been a Stones video.

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DragonSky
The big clunker on MO is Yap Yap; Keith needs to keep his little snide comments out of songs, not make a song out of them.

"Yap Yap" is lyrically as crap as most of Keith solo numbers are, but I like the way the song 'flows' naturally, and Keith just gives some melodic clues along it; it has the nice 'roll' element in it I miss in many other songs. If I recall right is the last of the side A (still think it in terms of vinyl), and to get there after the riff storm (I think Keith tries to rock too hard, and I'm not so fond of Winos over-all as band, really) it feels heaven-like. But honestly, I haven't listen the whole album for 15 years I guess, just some random songs.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-08-17 17:19 by Doxa.

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TrulyMicks
It would've been "one of their best" if it was released as a Stones album.

His recent pink suit sighting would have been loved by all if it had been a Stones video.

no it wouldn't. There are 3 songs that would have been perfect RS songs. Dont Tear Me Up, Sweet Thing, and especially Evening Gown. The rest I'm kind of glad stayed solo and I like Wandering Spirit a lot.

re: the pink pinstripe suit. It's just plain ugly. It's a little Michael Jackson if you ask me. But whatever.

I actually like "Hang On To Me Tonight" better than "Evening Gown". Both are excellent though.

I see someone above is saying Talk Is Cheap is as good as Exile - That's a good one! I like TIC but in no way is it anything like Exile.

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retired_dog

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jamesfdouglas
It was funny in 1994 to hear Voodoo Lounge in 1994. It didn't artistically top Wandering Spirit at all. It truly made me think "maybe Keith and the rest are actually holding him back from making good music now". The dry, unfinished sounding non-song album Main Offender for me was a clue to that.

Funny how the two best songs on Bridges to Babylone, Saint of Me and Out of Control, were actually Jagger solo songs meant for his follow-up to Wandering Spirit.

But the ca$h cow got hungry and we ended up with a weird mess of an album with 3 (2 too many) Keith-croakers on it, and the album never came to be.

Fully agree. Right on the mark! Excellent analysis.

Had that same strange feeling in 1994 when I first listened to Voodoo Lounge. After Wandering Spirit my expections were high for the next Stones album, and when it arrived, my thoughs were like: "How in the world is it possible that Mick can produce a far better Stones (-style) album without Keith, Ron and Charlie?

Agree with you both...regarding VL, I just think it was like the other albums of this post Wyman era...very bloated.

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DandelionPowderman
Having Running Too Deep and Will But You Won't right after eachother on the same album - with the same riff - is half-baked by itself.

HA HA HA
Couldn´t agree more.

if "Wandering Spirit" was a "Rolling stones" Album...... there would be quite a few folks here acknowledging it to be one of the top five Stones releases. Some others would insist that it was 80% Keith. A few more would insist that Richards should have sung Angel in My Heart in that fine singing heartfelt voice of his. Richards would mutter something under his breath for about 5 minutes and it would be declared a "song". Richards mumbling fumbling bumbling meandering snoozer to close the album will have some folks declaring that tune to be among the greatest Stones tunes. If Keith and Ronnie actually played guitars on this album, then Wandering Spirit would not be as good an album but the same folks would declare that Jagger ruins everything....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-09-13 17:53 by wanderingspirit66.

I have to say I think Wandering Spirit is Jagger's best solo effort. I think Keith would have detracted from it. Evening Gown and Don't Tear Me Up are superb songs. I will agree with Doxa to a point Primitive Cool dserves some credit with the exception of the exrement of a song called Let's Work, that song is pathetic for an artist of Mick Jagger's stature.

"Wandering Spirit" was my introduction to the Rolling Stones music. I got the "Highwire" CD single as then newest Stones recording only after that. Both are brilliant.
I don't mind "Wandering Spirit" being a Jagger solo album instead of a Stones album. It does not bother me that it's a stronger album than every official new Stones album that came after it (except Forty Licks but that was not all new despite the new tracks being very, very good).
I feel lucky to have gotten so much great music from the musicians out of the Stones camp.

But somehow, I feel a strong urge to ask them for more new songs. Was "A Bigger Bang" really meant to be their swansong? I hope not. I want a follow-up album. If it's as good as "Bridges To Babylon", I'll be happy. If it's more like "Steel Wheels", well then at least the Rolling Stones gave the world another 4 great songs.

Chuck Leavell, if you read this, please tell Mick and Keith to get the band back together and record a new album. Thank you. It's about time.