Black And Blue
Sticky Fingers
Let It Bleed
Some Girls
Tattoo You
Beggars Banquet
Ya Yas


Worst:
Bridges To Babylon
IORR
Goats Head Soup

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Palace Revolution 2000

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LieB

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Palace Revolution 2000
I think one rough rule of thumb I have is - the Stones are not to be listened to on headphones. If the song works on headphones, it's most likely not good Stones.

I kinda see what you mean, but I don't agree at all. The textures of Beggar's Banquet and Exile, just to mention but two of their masterpieces, are incredible through headphones. I've spent so many hours listening to the Stones on headphones ... Jump Back when going to bed, Handsome Girls on the train, Tattoo You on cassette while clearing weeds from the lawn ...

I also see what you mean. I didn't phrase it well enough. I too have listened to the Stones on headphones for thousands of hours. It sets my head swirling.
But if you are looking for Hi Fi quadrophonic stupendous separation, and stereo tricks, and panning games - the Stones are not the one. That's what I meant.
Now if you love (like me) to hear Ronnie bang the slide against the neck, a pick drop, studio chatter in between cuts, but also great rock'n roll that feeds of energy and joy, not wizardry, then the Stones are the one.

I agree totally. Beggars Banquet doesn't have he most clear hifi sound, but its layers of instruments can really be explored through headphones (it took me years before I noticed the harmonica in Dear Doctor, or the second harmonica in Parachute Woman, and I never realized the mandolin on Factory Girl was a mellotron, and I'm still not sure what that oooing flute is on Jig Saw Puzzle). Much the same goes with Exile. I really think those two have the most complex production/mixes of all Stones albums without the intention of being anything but rock 'n' roll. Let It Bleed is close, but it doesn't have quite the same messy landscape. Sticky Fingers is also a little more conventional, though very good.

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treaclefingers

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LieB

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Palace Revolution 2000
I think one rough rule of thumb I have is - the Stones are not to be listened to on headphones. If the song works on headphones, it's most likely not good Stones.

I kinda see what you mean, but I don't agree at all. The textures of Beggar's Banquet and Exile, just to mention but two of their masterpieces, are incredible through headphones. I've spent so many hours listening to the Stones on headphones ... Jump Back when going to bed, Handsome Girls on the train, Tattoo You on cassette while clearing weeds from the lawn ...

Isn't that something for the gardener to do, and would he be listening to the stones?

Well, I am Jumping Jack ...

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Stoneage
Technically speaking the sound quality should have gotten better and better. Funnily it looks as the sound quality goes down when the CD is introduced. As if nothing can compare to the sound of a vinyl LP.

Quite so...but that's a whole other topic and I'm loathe to get started on it ! ;^)

suffice to say it was CD that hammered the first nail in to the recording industry's coffin

You are right, Spud. And the second nail was the mp-3 format for downloading.

The best sounding Stones albums were Some Girls through Tattoo You. The snare and bass sounds on those records should be preserved for eternity.

It's fascinating that only ONE person considers A Bigger Bang to be their best-sounding album. I'm also of the opinion that it is not -- not by a long shot -- but theoretically, shouldn't it be? Here's why I suggest it should be:

1) Recording technology is continually becoming more sophisticated; more things are possible than ever before. Even if they choose not to take advantage of today's technology, any sounds they could produce in 1968, or 1973, or 1977, or 1981, they could certainly produce today, because yesterday's technology is still available today.

2) Wisdom is theoretically cumulative. Anything that Mick or Keith or anyone else knew thirty years ago they should be able to remember and apply today. For example, Keith has talked a lot about certain sounds he's discovered he can create with certain guitars.

The answer, I suppose, has to be either that they've FORGOTTEN how to create the sounds they were able to create in years past, or they're too LAZY to do so. And not having people like Jimmy Miller around doesn't help, either.

Drew

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drewmaster
It's fascinating that only ONE person considers A Bigger Bang to be their best-sounding album. I'm also of the opinion that it is not -- not by a long shot -- but theoretically, shouldn't it be? Here's why I suggest it should be:

1) Recording technology is continually becoming more sophisticated; more things are possible than ever before. Even if they choose not to take advantage of today's technology, any sounds they could produce in 1968, or 1973, or 1977, or 1981, they could certainly produce today, because yesterday's technology is still available today.

2) Wisdom is theoretically cumulative. Anything that Mick or Keith or anyone else knew thirty years ago they should be able to remember and apply today. For example, Keith has talked a lot about certain sounds he's discovered he can create with certain guitars.

The answer, I suppose, has to be either that they've FORGOTTEN how to create the sounds they were able to create in years past, or they're too LAZY to do so. And not having people like Jimmy Miller around doesn't help, either.

Drew

I don't think it's a question of having "forgotten" how to achieve a particular sound, it's more that once technology has moved on and advanced, it becomes difficult if not impossible to recreate an earlier sound. The sound they got on JJF and SFM, for example, was achieved by screwing with technolgy, by using it in ways you're not supposed to, deliberately trying to get a "bad" sound. It was difficult to do in 1968 and would be impossible to do now. No matter how hard you tried to fvck it up, today's technology would make it come out sounding too "good".

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tatters
It was difficult to do in 1968 and would be impossible to do now.

McCartney moaned even in the early 70's that you couldn't overload the channel on the recording desk because they all had limiters installed.

The Beatles were always overloading the sound, because "dirty" is good.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-07-27 15:24 by GravityBoy.

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GravityBoy

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tatters
It was difficult to do in 1968 and would be impossible to do now.

McCartney moaned even in the early 70's that you couldn't overload the channel on the recording desk because they all had limiters installed.

The Beatles were always overloading the sound, because "dirty" is good.

That's right. The bass on Paperback Writer is a good example of that. The sound they got on Revolution was achieved by plugging their guitars directly into the recording console.

--



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-07-27 15:36 by Winning Ugly VXII.

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tatters

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drewmaster
It's fascinating that only ONE person considers A Bigger Bang to be their best-sounding album. I'm also of the opinion that it is not -- not by a long shot -- but theoretically, shouldn't it be? Here's why I suggest it should be:

1) Recording technology is continually becoming more sophisticated; more things are possible than ever before. Even if they choose not to take advantage of today's technology, any sounds they could produce in 1968, or 1973, or 1977, or 1981, they could certainly produce today, because yesterday's technology is still available today.

2) Wisdom is theoretically cumulative. Anything that Mick or Keith or anyone else knew thirty years ago they should be able to remember and apply today. For example, Keith has talked a lot about certain sounds he's discovered he can create with certain guitars.

The answer, I suppose, has to be either that they've FORGOTTEN how to create the sounds they were able to create in years past, or they're too LAZY to do so. And not having people like Jimmy Miller around doesn't help, either.

Drew

I don't think it's a question of having "forgotten" how to achieve a particular sound, it's more that once technology has moved on and advanced, it becomes difficult if not impossible to recreate an earlier sound. The sound they got on JJF and SFM, for example, was achieved by screwing with technolgy, by using it in ways you're not supposed to, deliberately trying to get a "bad" sound. It was difficult to do in 1968 and would be impossible to do now. No matter how hard you tried to fvck it up, today's technology would make it come out sounding too "good".

I think that his point was that they do not have to use today's technology. If they really wanted to,they could record the albums as they did in 1968 ; 1969 or 1970 etc.. Good point though about " Street Fighting Man ",although " Parachute Woman " sounded great without any tricks that I am aware of.

At this point,I would take a " Main Offender " sounding album over an " A Bigger Bang " sounding album without a doubt.

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drewmaster
It's fascinating that only ONE person considers A Bigger Bang to be their best-sounding album. I'm also of the opinion that it is not -- not by a long shot -- but theoretically, shouldn't it be? Here's why I suggest it should be:

1) Recording technology is continually becoming more sophisticated; more things are possible than ever before. Even if they choose not to take advantage of today's technology, any sounds they could produce in 1968, or 1973, or 1977, or 1981, they could certainly produce today, because yesterday's technology is still available today.

Sophisticated recording technology has nothing to do with how a record sounds strictly in term of the sound of the album that you are listening to. That is up to the producer, the mixing engineer and the mastering. One can record strictly digital through analog compressors and analog this and analog that and it will come out sounding something other than digital. It is possible to record all digitally, mix and master all digitally and have it NOT be brickwalled and have dynamics and sound 'old' etc. There are digitally recorded albums that sound just as good as something from 1975. It's pretty much up to the dedication of the recording engineer and producer to make sure of it turning out good as opposed to "current".

Imagine this though: what if Let It Bleed or Sticky Fingers or Tattoo You were recorded and mastered the way A Bigger Bang was? No one would think they sound as good as they do. The amount of sophistication might be good in some ways but in a lot of other ways it's a detraction from the art of recording - one can pad anything now. Don't like how the kick drum was recorded using a $3000 mic? Put a bottom heavy crisp sounding sample in with it and voila - suddenly it sounds bigger, fatter and "better". One might as 'Why bother recording the kick drum then if you're just going to beef it up with a sample of a kick drum?'. That defeats the purpose of using a $3000 mic to record with doesn't it.

And maybe it does. But listen to the kick on Let It Bleed, the song, as well as Jumpin' Jack Flash from Get Yer Ya-Ya's, CYHMK, Rocks Off, Doo Doo Doo Doo and Slave. Then listen to the kick from She's So Cold, Tie You Up, One Hit, Mixed Emotions, Jump On Top Of Me and Lowdown: Charlie sounds the same, basically, in how he plays, but suddenly there's a crispness and a 'nearness' to the sound of the kickdrum. Better EQ? Better channels? Better mics? More then ever before EQ during the mix? Better mastering? Something happened, because there's a difference.

Yet if you listen to Rough Justice and Plundered My Soul, one of which is strictly a digital recording and one is analog transferred to digital, well, Plundered has a better sounding kick drum doesn't it. Rough Justice sounds like the kick is threatening to crush your chest, where as Plundered sounds like a train rolling down the track but not through your living room.

A lot of it has to do with recording technology - sounds are captured in the same way as they always have been - through a microphone. What's changed is what they're going THROUGH to get to where they GO. Keith may have used amps he used in 1997 or 1982 or 1977 on A Bigger Bang and it might sound very similar to other sounds he has on other albums. But perhaps it's TOO clear, TOO precise. A different mic. Recorded too hot. Recorded too clean, with too much going into it and not enough of what the actual sound is. No room sound on Rough Justice as there is on Hey Negrita. That can't be blamed on sophisticated recording technology. That is strictly up to the producer in the end. Rough Justice still sounds like Keith Richards playing electric guitar through a Fender. But it is a little bit different sounding then his guitar on Dance Little Sister.

And like you pointed out, one can achieve the sound of whatever year or era by either using that equipment or...digitally creating it.

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drewmaster
2) Wisdom is theoretically cumulative. Anything that Mick or Keith or anyone else knew thirty years ago they should be able to remember and apply today. For example, Keith has talked a lot about certain sounds he's discovered he can create with certain guitars.

The answer, I suppose, has to be either that they've FORGOTTEN how to create the sounds they were able to create in years past, or they're too LAZY to do so. And not having people like Jimmy Miller around doesn't help, either.

Keith's search for a sound was still happening during the Voodoo sessions. Playing through a Leslie is a good example. But that's not exactly what you mean is it. Perhaps what it truly boils down to is, after 30 plus years of recording and having all that cumulative knowledge there is no room to experiment or wonder anymore - they really do know it all. There is no need, it's just there. It's not a matter of experimenting for them anymore to record a Fender Telecaster through a Fender Twin then it is to record that Tele through a Vox or a Marshall or anything else - since they've already done it (I know that is really over the top to say it that way but for the sake of this just let it be), it's more of a 'call it up' choice than a discovery. It's in the arsenal of sounds and all that. What does this one call for? "Remember what you did on Ruby Tuesday?" Mick actually said something to that effect about recording New Faces for Voodoo I think. He was looking to avoid that while Don Was was looking to do that!

Charlie has never recorded a snare through a wah-wah or with microphones on a couch with the couch right up in front of the drums, has he. I don't think playing brushes on a garbage can at the bottom of a stairwell counts. Keith has never recorded a National while sitting in front of a fan has he. Or on a front porch (he may have used a Dobro on whatever song, Continental Drift, not exactly ground breaking - but he did "play" a spoon on a bicycle wheel for it). Those are the kind of things they could 'discover' but perhaps they just don't think that way anymore. Maybe John Lennon and George Martin ruined it for everyone.

Lots of interesting and great posts here;
to me - the best sounding RS albums are Black And Blue and Tattoo You.
Closely followed by Some Girls and Let It Bleed.
The WORST sounding ones are the recent outputs; topped by A Bigger Bang
You could say that Exile and Goats Head Soup are too muddy, and that Dirty Work sounds disturbing, and that the mix of the last 3 tracks of the Undercover album sounds flat; despite of the rockers they're supposed to be; but none of the Rolling Stones albums sounded more sterile and more empty than their last records - soundwise. It's just full volume and no ups or downs,

No matter. The sound that we hear has, in the end, the most to do with the mix, because that determines what it sounds like. One can have a poorly recorded group of songs, whether it's just bad mic placement or poor levels, and if they are mixed to the best of one's ability then it will sound as good as it can. Therefor it sounds good for what it is.

That's why Tattoo You is so astounding - different recorders and desks used in different parts of the world all mixed to sound as close as possible to whatever the sound was Clearmountain was aiming for.

I love to hear Clearmountain do complete re-mixes of GHS and IORR.

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ab
The best sounding Stones albums were Some Girls through Tattoo You. The snare and bass sounds on those records should be preserved for eternity.

full stop.

While Emotional rescue might not be one of the greatest Stones albums it has some of the best drum, especially snare and kick and CYmbals, sounds.