...........awwwwwww come on ...make up ya mind



ROCKMAN

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Max'sKansasCity

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Zack
Edward, if DW is not the Stones' very worst album, what is?

WHY THE HELL WOULD THAT SUPID QUESTION EVEN GET ASKED HERE?!?!
WHY DOES THERE HAVE TO BE A WORST ALBUM??!!?? WTF??!!
WHAT IS THE POINT?, WHAT IS THE OBJECTIVE OF THAT QUESTION?

Well gee, it's a fairly common facet of human nature to try to quantify such things. Music magazines have polls about best and worsts all the time. Year-end issues of news publications also summarize the preceding 12 months in such a way. We on these boards have argued Wood vs. Taylor or Beatles vs. Stones ad infinitum. Jack vs. Jim Beam even. Besides, Edward invoked DW not being the Stones very worst album - I didn't raise the issue out of the blue. (Though I did set myself up for the pain and ignominy of reading that someone thinks the awesome SMR is "by far" the worst).

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Zack

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Max'sKansasCity

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Zack
Edward, if DW is not the Stones' very worst album, what is?

WHY THE HELL WOULD THAT SUPID QUESTION EVEN GET ASKED HERE?!?!
WHY DOES THERE HAVE TO BE A WORST ALBUM??!!?? WTF??!!
WHAT IS THE POINT?, WHAT IS THE OBJECTIVE OF THAT QUESTION?

Well gee, it's a fairly common facet of human nature to try to quantify such things. Music magazines have polls about best and worsts all the time. Year-end issues of news publications also summarize the preceding 12 months in such a way. We on these boards have argued Wood vs. Taylor or Beatles vs. Stones ad infinitum. Jack vs. Jim Beam even. Besides, Edward invoked DW not being the Stones very worst album - I didn't raise the issue out of the blue. (Though I did set myself up for the pain and ignominy of reading that someone thinks the awesome SMR is "by far" the worst).

Imho SMR is the absolute lowpoint of the Stones. But that's just me. Anyone who rates SMR up with the best albums, I wonder?

I have never posted a word on this board which I would not say to a persons face, and that includes (especially) anything I would say to any member of The Rolling Stones regarding any of their creations.

I would love to see some of the (trollish "local experts" ) who post here, sit (squirm) at a bar table and look across at Mick and Keith and be required to spout some the crap I read them post this board.

"Hello Mick and Keith, today we will be discussing your WORST album". "what do you think your WORST album is?".... yeah.... as if anyone... ANYWHERE... EVER ...would say that to thier faces... let alone say some of the other VERY mean spirited things that get posted on this board.

Imagine being them and reading some of the drivel posted by some people here who simultaneously complian about no new album/tour while also stating that the Stones have not had a good tour/album since 1972... wtf?

Pushing back at the negative waves... always pushing against the the negative waves...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-07-18 15:31 by Max'sKansasCity.

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NedKelly


Imho SMR is the absolute lowpoint of the Stones. But that's just me. Anyone who rates SMR up with the best albums, I wonder?

Let's put it this way, SMR is half great. We Love You, Dandelion, and Child of the Moon are great. You remove that ridiculous jam on the end of side one and maybe On With the Show, work in those other three songs, you have a great album.

Max, I hear you but I think if I were in a bar with Mick and Keith, they wouldn't defend Dirty Work. It was just a bad time for the band and it showed on the record.

I would never try to predict what they would say, about anything... but I am willing to bet $652.37 that no one would approach the subject of their worst album with them in person(esp if Keith was holding a ax ; )

I bet $652.37 no one would say "Hey Keith, "you over hill", "unable to play guitar", "havent made a good album since 1972", "your last 5 tours have sucked".... what is your worst album?


For the record, I have never had an issue with any Stones album or tour.,.. they are all great.. I have NEVER attended a Stones show where the people walking out afterwards were anything but ecstatic... everyone had a blast, everytime... all 2 billion of them (30 x 17,000-80,000)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2011-07-18 15:55 by Max'sKansasCity.

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Zack
Edward, if DW is not the Stones' very worst album, what is?

Their Satanic Majesties Request. With exception to a few songs, the rest of it drags it down - similar to Dirty Work.

No way is Undercover their worst ever - it's got some great tunes on it and it's consistent. Yeah, sure, it's not Exile quality - nothing has been since Exile.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-07-18 16:13 by Max'sKansasCity.

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Max'sKansasCity
I would never try to predict what they would say, about anything... but I am willing to bet $652.37 that no one would approach the subject of their worst album with them in person(esp if Keith was holding a ax ; )

I would. Why would I be scared of Keith holding an axe when he couldn't hit me with it in the first place? They can't deny the truth, although Keith seems to do it on a yearly basis. Mick would most likely say "It's taken this long for fans to realise it? Why bother."

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Max'sKansasCity
I bet $652.37 no one would say "Hey Keith, "you over hill", "unable to play guitar", "havent made a good album since 1972", "your last 5 tours have sucked".... what is your worst album?

If Keith is so tough then a hard love approach would work. However, 'haven't made a good album since 1972' is not true, to me anyway, the last five tours have not sucked, only the ABB tour sucked, and we already know what their worst album are: Dirty Work and TSMR.

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Max'sKansasCity
For the record, I have never had an issue with any Stones album or tour.,.. they are all great.. I have NEVER attended a Stones show where the people walking out afterwards were anything but ecstatic... everyone had a blast, everytime... all 2 billion of them (30 x 17,000-80,000)

You are biased beyond a fault. "They are all great". Good for you Max. Just because you live in a hippie bubble of haze doesn't mean the rest of the world isn't dealing with reality. Part of which, the Stones have clunker albums and clunker tours. One good show or ten good shows out of 50 or 121 shows doesn't mean "great tour", it just means "some good shows".

LOL, you said .... "hippie bubble of haze"
=========================================

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DragonSky

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Max'sKansasCity
I would never try to predict what they would say, about anything... but I am willing to bet $652.37 that no one would approach the subject of their worst album with them in person(esp if Keith was holding a ax ; )

I would. Why would I be scared of Keith holding an axe when he couldn't hit me with it in the first place? They can't deny the truth, although Keith seems to do it on a yearly basis. Mick would most likely say "It's taken this long for fans to realise it? Why bother."

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Max'sKansasCity
I bet $652.37 no one would say "Hey Keith, "you over hill", "unable to play guitar", "havent made a good album since 1972", "your last 5 tours have sucked".... what is your worst album?

If Keith is so tough then a hard love approach would work. However, 'haven't made a good album since 1972' is not true, to me anyway, the last five tours have not sucked, only the ABB tour sucked, and we already know what their worst album are: Dirty Work and TSMR.

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Max'sKansasCity
For the record, I have never had an issue with any Stones album or tour.,.. they are all great.. I have NEVER attended a Stones show where the people walking out afterwards were anything but ecstatic... everyone had a blast, everytime... all 2 billion of them (30 x 17,000-80,000)

You are biased beyond a fault. "They are all great". Good for you Max. Just because you live in a hippie bubble of haze doesn't mean the rest of the world isn't dealing with reality. Part of which, the Stones have clunker albums and clunker tours. One good show or ten good shows out of 50 or 121 shows doesn't mean "great tour", it just means "some good shows".

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-07-18 16:26 by Max'sKansasCity.

I had to say something to get through, to get your attention.

Er wait. Isn't that basically what Keith said about what he wrote about Mick?

Nevermind. Glad you enjoyed it!

yeah, I can see it now......

Mick: (to Keith) you live in a hippie bubble of haze.

Keith: Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-07-18 17:20 by Max'sKansasCity.

NICE!

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stevecardi

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Sleepy City

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Silver Dagger
...borne out by the fact that they have hardly ever played anything off the album on tour.

We could say the same thing about the Emotional Rescue & Undercover albums. The main reason all of these haven't been performed live much is simply because there were no tours to coincide with their releases.

Mick performed 'Harlem Shuffle' & 'Winning Ugly' in 1988, & Keith performed 'Too Rude' the same year; then both 'Harlem Shuffle' & 'One Hit' were performed during the 1989 reunion.

You're right about Mick and "Winning Ugly." Always wondered why he pulled out that particular song for his solo tour, only to bury it again.

Because at some point he seems to have come to his senses.

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NedKelly

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Zack

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Max'sKansasCity

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Zack
Edward, if DW is not the Stones' very worst album, what is?

WHY THE HELL WOULD THAT SUPID QUESTION EVEN GET ASKED HERE?!?!
WHY DOES THERE HAVE TO BE A WORST ALBUM??!!?? WTF??!!
WHAT IS THE POINT?, WHAT IS THE OBJECTIVE OF THAT QUESTION?

Well gee, it's a fairly common facet of human nature to try to quantify such things. Music magazines have polls about best and worsts all the time. Year-end issues of news publications also summarize the preceding 12 months in such a way. We on these boards have argued Wood vs. Taylor or Beatles vs. Stones ad infinitum. Jack vs. Jim Beam even. Besides, Edward invoked DW not being the Stones very worst album - I didn't raise the issue out of the blue. (Though I did set myself up for the pain and ignominy of reading that someone thinks the awesome SMR is "by far" the worst).

Imho SMR is the absolute lowpoint of the Stones. But that's just me. Anyone who rates SMR up with the best albums, I wonder?

Great album, She's a Rainbow, 2000 Light Years, 2000 Man, Citadel, In Another Land....a cuppla clunkers as well.

If they could have subbed a couple of songs, including Dandelion, We Love You and Child of the Moon, this would have been an absolute classic, and we'd be talking about the big 5 (or big 6 if we're including Ya-Ya's).

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guitarbastard

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24FPS

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Zack
Edward, if DW is not the Stones' very worst album, what is?

Undercover

never! you honestly think undercover is worse then steel wheels or ABB?

Maybe 'SteelWheels' or 'A Bigger Bang'. Anything post 'Dirty Work' is in with a shout in my opinion. I pretty much agree with Doxa's analysis of 'Bridges To Babylon', with regards that the Stones were at least trying to do something a little different, although i'm dubious as to how much really comes from the creativity within the band, like in the old days, and how much really is in the hands of an outside producer via the mixing desk. Whatever the implications, 'Bridges To Babylon' does show the Stones at least attempting to add perhaps a contemporary edge to their sound, while remaining stylistically familiar also. Strip away the production, though, and i don't see 'Bridges To Babylon' as being a huge departure from anything else they've recorded since 89. Perhaps 'Anybody Seen My Baby' may prove the exception, where their attempts to incorporate a more contemporary sound is most revealing.

Ultimately, the problem with 'Steel Wheels', 'Voodoo Lounge' and also 'A Bigger Bang', is also perhaps the reason some fans rather like them - familiarity. They very much reflect what you'd expect from the Stones, even if creatively
(which includes the songwriting effectiveness, and the arrangements, performance etc.) the Stones are pretty much bankrupt. They are extremely safe and conservative albums, where the Stones are pretty much mimicking (for use of a better word) their old selves. To a point 'Undercover' and 'Dirty Work' suffer similar problems, in terms of ineffective songwriting and arrangements, but the band seem that little more vital, more spontaneous and even more adventurous etc, perhaps because they were a little younger, without also being smothered in slickness within the albums production, as with those later albums, which ultimately leads to a pretty sterile listening experience. 'Undercover Of The Night' alone, comes closer than anything the Stones recorded in later years, in terms of them delivering a near classic song, even incorporating a contemporary edge, but somehow even that song manages to fall a little short. The Stones least inspiring albums - starting with 'It's Only Rock 'N' Roll', through 'Emotional Rescue', on to 'Undercover', 'Dirty Work' and beyond all suffer from sketchy, and underdeveloped songwriting/arranging. Sometimes the Stones could still pull off the odd memorable moment, and go off into more contemporary directions effectively on occasions, especially on 'Emotional Rescue', but largely the group were going through the motions. However, their vitality, playing ability etc. was still with them even if their inspiration had gone. Post 'Dirty Work' even their vitality had ebbed away. That coincidentally happened as their corporate ventures became ever larger.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2011-07-18 21:31 by Edward Twining.

"If they could have subbed a couple of songs, including Dandelion, We Love You and Child of the Moon, this would have been an absolute classic, and we'd be talking about the big 5 (or big 6 if we're including Ya-Ya's)."

Exactly. Lose "See What happens", add "Child of The Moon" and/or "Dandelion" and "We Love You" and we get another classic Rolling Stones album.

After quite some years of frequenting this board I am starting to think that if Edward Twining, Doxa, 71Tele etc. were my neighbors, they would have a hard time with the music pumping out - normally at very high volume - from my stereo or amps ...

C

But... regarding the comment below, the way I look at it, is if you don't like an album like It's Only Rock n Roll, then you can't be a Stones fan. IORR indeed has some simple and sloppy songs, but that's exactly what makes the Stones great. It's in the feel and attitude, and IORR has it. Take Dance Little Sister, which is about as simple as you get. But to do that and pull if off takes attitude and something special, like chemistry, which the Stones had.

"The Stones least inspiring albums - starting with 'It's Only Rock 'N' Roll', through 'Emotional Rescue', on to 'Undercover', 'Dirty Work' and beyond all suffer from sketchy, and underdeveloped songwriting/arranging>"

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guitarbastard

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24FPS

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Zack
Edward, if DW is not the Stones' very worst album, what is?

Undercover

never! you honestly think undercover is worse then steel wheels or ABB?

Absolutely. Rip the classic 'Undercover' track off the album and you can flush the rest. Steel Wheels has 10 great Stones songs. A Bigger Bang, though not a favorite, has a new Stones classic in 'Rough Justice'. 'She Saw Me Coming' isn't bad, and others I'll have to listen to again. I think Undercover and Dirty Work, my two least favorite Stones albums, represent a time when they were coming apart. Steel Wheels is a rapproachement of sort. Kind of like the Beatles Abbey Road, where they came together and left the bullshit outside. It probably helped that the other Stones were laughing at Bill and his marriage.

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Max'sKansasCity
I bet $652.37 no one would say "Hey Keith, "you over hill", "unable to play guitar", "havent made a good album since 1972", "your last 5 tours have sucked".... what is your worst album?

You would win w/ me. I wouldn't say to him that Dirty Works sucks moose balls, but it sure does. I also don't go around telling fat women to lose some weight.

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24FPS
Steel Wheels is a rapproachement of sort. Kind of like the Beatles Abbey Road, where they came together and left the bullshit outside. It probably helped that the other Stones were laughing at Bill and his marriage.

Not even CLOSE to being "kind of like"! What are you smokin'?!? Undercover has no good songs on it save the first track? You are smokin' something really strange.

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liddas
After quite some years of frequenting this board I am starting to think that if Edward Twining, Doxa, 71Tele etc. were my neighbors, they would have a hard time with the music pumping out - normally at very high volume - from my stereo or amps ...

C

It's a proven scientific fact that playing Exile sonically cancels out all the frequencies of Dirty Work, so I would have no problem living next door to you.

....Under Cover followed by Dirty Work were back to back dissapointments...by the time you get to Steel Wheels you're reeling big time.

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nomis
But... regarding the comment below, the way I look at it, is if you don't like an album like It's Only Rock n Roll, then you can't be a Stones fan. IORR indeed has some simple and sloppy songs, but that's exactly what makes the Stones great. It's in the feel and attitude, and IORR has it. Take Dance Little Sister, which is about as simple as you get. But to do that and pull if off takes attitude and something special, like chemistry, which the Stones had.

"The Stones least inspiring albums - starting with 'It's Only Rock 'N' Roll', through 'Emotional Rescue', on to 'Undercover', 'Dirty Work' and beyond all suffer from sketchy, and underdeveloped songwriting/arranging>"

Well nomis, to use the 'It's Only Rock 'N' Roll' album as a reference point as an example of the best of the Stones, sounds severely misquided to me. I think that that album, plus elements of 'Goats Head Soup' were perhaps the first times since the Stones early days, that they have appeared a little lost, or at the very least, lacking in self assurance. I actually think much of 'It's Only Rock 'N' Roll' rings hollow pretty quick, as much of it just seems to be a parody of what the Stones were doing brilliantly a few years earlier, but without any real conviction, or sense of purpose. Granted, though, even when the Stones were on auto pilot back in those days, they could still be enjoyed by the listener to a degree, if the listener was prepared to lower his, or her's, expectations a little. The Stones abilities as musicians hadn't deserted them, but the driving force, or strong sense of focus, was all but gone. The Stones seemed to be playng out of necessity, more than having anything artistically to reveal. Keith could still bang out a few riffs, but the album overall sounds very forced. The subtelty within the Stones musical sensibility had gone. The music had become all too explicit, and all too obvious.

i like it , its the stones in the 80s.

Stone in the 80's it is. And you know, some of the stuff really had a lot of potential, but it is almost as if Mick is sabotaging it with his horrendous singing. He is pissed. And sometimes when there is a lot of adversity, it challenges the band to really put out. But in this instance the schism is so deep, even the quality of the writing and the performances are hindered. There are a handful of great songs that haven't dated badly. One Hit To the Body, Had it With You, Harlem Shuffle, Sleep Tonight, and Dirty Work, are all stellar hard core stones songs! But then there is some just really badly produced, sung and lackluster lyrics. I can't hold it up as a fav, but it isn't as bad as the urban legend wants you to believe it is. I mean hell, with the level of anger, it is a lot more passionate than their make up album! Steel Wheels.

Zack, When interviewed by Australian interviewer Molly Meldrum on the promotion of Dirty Work, Keith was asked,did he think that Dirty Work was a Stones own Stones Album, Keith replied Yes, He defended it as good. And so do I as a matter of fact. Rockman do you have a record of this interview.

[What are you smokin'?!? Undercover has no good songs on it save the first track? You are smokin' something really strange.[/quote]

It's not that strange. OG Chunk. A little on the Kush side.

And yes, Undercover is a sucky album. Since I got 'Undercover of the Night' in a good remastered version on Forty Licks, I have absolutely no need for the rest of the crap on the album. I went to Wikipedia to look at the album and see if there were some cuts I overlooked that were good. Nope.

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24FPS
And yes, Undercover is a sucky album. Since I got 'Undercover of the Night' in a good remastered version on Forty Licks, I have absolutely no need for the rest of the crap on the album. I went to Wikipedia to look at the album and see if there were some cuts I overlooked that were good. Nope.

I basically worked on that assumption for years. Been listening quite a bit lately. "She Was Hot" is a funny, sleazy rocker. "Feel On Baby" has a great reggae/dub thing happening, and "Too Much Blood" is weird and hilarious...

But my current favorite is "Pretty Beat Up," which is a motherf&%ker of a groove, with sax that could only have been improved by Bobby K. It's a knockout.

My current daydream: A "Pretty Beat Up"/"Just Want To See His Face" jam onstage. Would be an absolute beast...

How unbelievably boring would the Stones be if they were only the "Brown Sugar"/"All Down The Line"/"Start Me Up"/"Bitch"/"Satisfaction" Rolling Stones?

Give Undercover (and Dirty Work, for that matter) another shot.