I know this is a purely hypothetical question, but while listening to the get yer ya ya's album yesterday I wondered how different it would have been If Brian Jones was still in the band instead of Mick Taylor. So for arguments sake I though lets say Jones received a work Visa and was able to tour the states with the boys in 69' and as a result gets himself into playing shape again. How drastically different would the sound, style and setlist have been had he and not Taylor been on tour.

Some ideas.

Prodigal Son: Mick on vocals, Keith on guitar and Brian on Blues Harp
Probably would've played No Expectations, alot of Harmonica on tracks like Parachute woman ala RnR Circus style and perhaps Midnight Rambler and ofcourse Basic Rhythm guitar on all other songs. He probably would have played slide on Love In vain, and some other songs probably would have been played instead of the extended guitar jams richards and taylor played... just wanted to see some of your ideas.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-06-20 04:53 by littlejim13.

You want an idea of how they would have been in 1969 with Brian on guitar? Have a look at "Rock & Roll Circus". It would have been like that, except worse.

Ive seen it and believe me its not pretty, but I remember hearing that he wanted to go on tour with the stones in 1969 and fully intended to if he couldve gotten his work visa. I mean by all accounts he was fine months earlier playing at the 68 nme concert so, hypothetically if he knows hes going on a huge tour with the band I assume he couldve gotten himself at least somewhat ready for it.

Bottom line: Jones was not nearly as good a guitarist as MT, and it was the age of the Guitar God like Hendrix, Clapton; et.al., they would not have been as good live with Brian, even if sober. Mick J probably knew it.

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littlejim13
Ive seen it and believe me its not pretty, but I remember hearing that he wanted to go on tour with the stones in 1969 and fully intended to if he couldve gotten his work visa. I mean by all accounts he was fine months earlier playing at the 68 nme concert so, hypothetically if he knows hes going on a huge tour with the band I assume he couldve gotten himself at least somewhat ready for it.

There were reports of Brian playing music and in better shape before he died. But how much of that was because of the relief of finally being out of the Stones? And during this supposed period of improvement he, um, died. That's why these hypotheticals are so difficult.

I want to make it clear that I think they were 100% better live in the Mick Taylor Era, and that the BJ era although my favorite was more of a "Pop" and blues era. But in all honesty I think he could've managed it. I mean playing Rhythm on satisfaction with some catchy blues turnarounds isn't hard. Same with Sympathy for the Devil. Keith's part in stray cat blues is easy enough, Jumping Jack Flash is Pretty Easy as was Mick Taylors part in Honky tonk women, and the same goes for Under my thumb and Im free. He could clearly still play slide so throw in No expectations and Love in vain. The little rhythm rifts on Carol and the other chuck berry covers. Some Blues harp on Prodigal son and maybe another song or two. Throw in a past hit or two thats easy to play like Paint it black and street fighting man and there you go theres a whole set. Only song he probably would be lost in would be Midnight rambler...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-06-20 05:53 by littlejim13.

would have been interesting to say the least, also would have been just as interesting if woody had taken the job in 69

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littlejim13
I want to make it clear that I think they were 100% better live in the Mick Taylor Era, and that the BJ era although my favorite was more of a "Pop" and blues era. But in all honesty I think he could've managed it. I mean playing Rhythm on satisfaction with some catchy blues turnarounds isn't hard. Same with Sympathy for the Devil. Keith's part in stray cat blues is easy enough, and the same goes for Under my thumb and Im free. He could clearly still play slide so throw in No expectations and Love in vain. The little rhythm rifts on Carol and the other chuck berry covers. Some Blues harp on Prodigal son and maybe another song or two. Throw in a past hit or two thats easy to play like Paint it black and street fighting man and there you go theres a whole set. Only song he probably would be lost in would be Midnight rambler...

He couldn't manage it when he was in the band before he was fired and then he couldn't manage staying alive. I don't mean to be cruel here, but although it's fine to wonder what he would have played like had he lived, to even get there at all assumes that a lot of other things would have happened too.

I understand what your saying. I really think the key to this is the work visa. If he did get the work Visa he wouldnt have been sitting at home feeling misreable for himself self destructing and would have been in the studio rehearsing with the rest of the band. The fact that the stones management and MJ and KR even attempted to get the visa for him shows they atleast had some faith in his ability. And I really rather this thread stay hypothetical to this point because my thought was only to how the stones would have sounded and what they would have played, rather than a debate on the demise of Brian jones lol.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-06-20 05:54 by littlejim13.

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littlejim13
I understand what your saying. I really think the key to this is the work visa. If he did get the work Visa he wouldnt have been sitting at home feeling misreable for himself self destructing and would have been in the studio rehearsing with the rest of the band. The fact that the stones management and MJ and KR even attempted to get the visa for him shows they atleast had some faith in his ability. And I really rather this thread stay hypothetical to this point because my thought was only to how the stones would have sounded and what they would have played, rather than a debate on the demise of Brian jones lol.

I agree, I didn't meant to debate his demise. My only point was that he had really put the guitar down a long time before 1969 and it is hard to see how he would have gotten back up to speed. I don't really think the work visa was the real issue in his firing by the way. It was the thing that they could technically use as the reason to fire him, but he was a spent force musically, and that was the real reason. Which is why I can't imagine him playing guitar at all in 1969 with the Stones.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-06-20 05:58 by 71Tele.

>I really think the key to this is the work visa.

Not sure what this means -- it seems to me Mick & Keith had already decided to continue the band w/out him. I don't think that attitude would have been altered by his possession of a work visa.

Idk I just think the simple fact that they tried to attain a us work visa for him shows that they atleast planned on bringing him with them on tour. But when it proved either to difficult or impossible they were like "screw this" hes already to much of a burden and we'd be better off with some one anyway.

Any way I do think they were undoubtedly better off with Mick Taylor on guitar

Brian showed little interest in their new material. Everything in 1969 was guitar excellence and he'd stopped playing with any regularity years earlier. A year or two earlier he had been at the forefront, pushing the boundaries on things like 2000 Light Years with the mellotron. By 1969 the music world had rushed by him. Even Keith couldn't play lead well enough for what they needed to compete. It was Keith playing a lot of the rhythm, and doing a better job than what Brian was capable of at that point. Something was deeply wrong with Brian Jones, and it snowballed quickly in '68 and into '69. He seemed relieved to have the pressure of being a Rolling Stone lifted from his shoulders. The boys had finally outpaced their teacher and taking 'their' music to a whole new level.

Ya Yas is a fantastic album. Jagger's harp is brilliant on Midnight Rambler. Taylor's leads carry everything to a higher plane. I have never listened to Ya Yas and thought, "What this needs right here is Brian Jones." Doing what?

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24FPS
Ya Yas is a fantastic album. Jagger's harp is brilliant on Midnight Rambler. Taylor's leads carry everything to a higher plane. I have never listened to Ya Yas and thought, "What this needs right here is Brian Jones." Doing what?

Its not so much that I thought it be better with him as a member and part of the album, just came across my mind as I wonder what it would've sounded like, how would it be different. And believe me I love the album especially with the four bonus tracks!

If we are talking hypothetical, they could have had both Taylor and Jones in the band.

Why assume he would've just played guitar (& perhaps harp?). He played 5 or 6 different instruments on their previous tour 2 & 1/2 years earlier, so I'm guessing he would've continued to do so, both on record & onstage. I also suspect that they wouldn't have dropped so many earlier songs as they did with Mick Taylor (Lady Jane & Ruby Tuesday live in '69? Why not?).

The 1967-tour was almost as good as the 69-tour, so who knows?

Guitar-solos were beginning to be very important around 1969, both Live and on records (blame Led Zeppelin)...who should have play them -69-70 if not Mick T. Brian Jones? Keith Richards?

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Little Queenie, Live With Me, Carol and SFTD all sound great to me (Ya Ya´s). All with solos played by Keith, although I get your point, of course, Come On.

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Come On
Guitar-solos were beginning to be very important around 1969, both Live and on records (blame Led Zeppelin)...who should have play them -69-70 if not Mick T. Brian Jones? Keith Richards?

Led Zeppelin? I blame Hendrix & Cream more. Lenthy guitar solos / jams had become the norm before LZ.

Nah do you remember Sleepy what was the thing with Hendrix two first records? It's not his solos it was the fantastic Stereo ! And for The Cream it was that long drum-solo that was talked about, but when Led Zep II came we were standing on our knees playing guitar-solos with songs like 'whole lotta love', heartbreaker' and desperately looking for solos on our old Stones records and only finding the ones on 'symphaty for the devil'..do you remember as John said...

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The Stones doing Lady Jane and Ruby Tuesday in 1969 with this shabby technology back then ??? It worked in 1967 with all the screaming girls, but it would not have worked in 1969 when people started actually listening to the music being played on stage. The Stones jumped on the guitar band wagon in 1969, and quite rightly so. Brian would not have fitted in.

If he would have in shape, sober and eager to play the result could have been great. The songs witout Taylor solos would have sounded almost the same, and they would have included more slide and harmonica songs. We must not forget that Brian played great guitar for years on stage.

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alimente
The Stones doing Lady Jane and Ruby Tuesday in 1969 with this shabby technology back then ???

Prodigal Son sounded crap on stage in 1969 but that didn't stop them from playing it...

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melillo
also would have been just as interesting if woody had taken the job in 69

That's the most depressing hypothetical I have heard in a long time.

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MILKYWAY

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melillo
also would have been just as interesting if woody had taken the job in 69

That's the most depressing hypothetical I have heard in a long time.

Me too...just imagine a clarinet in Stones....

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Sleepy City

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alimente
The Stones doing Lady Jane and Ruby Tuesday in 1969 with this shabby technology back then ???

Prodigal Son sounded crap on stage in 1969 but that didn't stop them from playing it...

I'm not sure if PS really sounded crap on stage in 1969 (the YaYas Deluxe version actually sounds pretty good, but listening to it from a soundboard recording is quite different from listening to it during the actual show) but it does not have an elaborate arrangement like Ruby Tuesday. Plus, in 1969, the trend was "Rock" (and that includes Blues) and not "Pop" (no matter how good it was).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-06-20 15:05 by alimente.

Then he probably would have a few more kids.

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As central to the Stones success as Brian had been, it's unlikely there would have been an American tour had he not been replaced.

Brian wanted out of the band just as much as they wanted him to leave. He was happy after he left (I believe it was a mutual agreement and no sacking) and is said to have been cleaner from drugs and alcohol than he had been in years. I have a hard time to believe that he would have found the strength to leave Cotchford for a world tour with a band he didn't want to be in and playing music he didn't care for.

Mick Taylor was the right guitar player for that tour. Brian would have been successful doing the music he wanted to do.

If the story had been different then I guess that Ya Ya's would have been great with Brian in the band. Why not?