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stupidguy2

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Bliss

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Glam Descendant
Bliss, why bother to "contribute" to a thread about Marianne if you don't appreciate her? Just to bitch?

I was unaware that this was a 'Marianne Faithfull appreciation thread'.

I consider my contributions, based on my extensive knowledge of Stones history, to be of value, irrespective of my personal views.

Ditto.
And Glam, its all mostly about Mick.
I flip flop about Marianne all the time. I want to like her, she can be witty, is intelligent....but then she'll annoy me again. Seriously, I'll read an interview with Marianne and Jerry Hall ain't so bad. Then Jerry Hall will annoy me and I think, 'She's no Marianne or Bianca...' so what to do?
MF's self-congratulatory ruminations of Life With Mick have amused me since I was 13 years old. They change with the wind, or her current state of mind. Because I was an obsessed Stones fan, I read everything about everybody connected to the Stones, like most of us here. We're all "experts".
Its actually refreshing to read critical observations of people like Marianne because for years, she's been a sort of Stones sacred cow who fans seemed to romanticize ...seemed to get off on the idea of some weary decadance, or the idea of it. The fragile waif eaten by the ravenous, hard-hearted Jagger or the mythical creature who left Jagger an empty shell of a man who could only forlornly seek some elusive romantic ideal with lesser women, a Muse who left Jagger an empty shell of an artist left only to go through the motions with some less worthy muse... the angel to his devil, the Ophelia to his Hamlet...only to be left ravaged by life, her own frailty.....etc....Please. It all seemed so flaky to me. How many times do I have to read that she, and only she, inspired Mick to create. His work suffered in her absence, she has actully claimed that several times over the years. How arrogant and self-absorbed can you be?
And two books, a film....what's next? As for Morphine, I love the acoustic guitar and Ry Cooder's slide, but the lyrics are silly. I never doubted MF's hand in this song because melodramatic lines like 'Lying in my hospital bed....the doctor has no face...' had Marianne written all over it.
As for 'Wild Horses', Keith said it was his line, not Marianne's. Yeah, I know, who to believe, two delusional former junkies staking a claim.

I agree with all of this. I always read MF's interviews with interest, because she is a very intelligent woman with excellent recall, despite how she typically slants the truth in her favour. There will always be a nugget of new information, if you can weed through the bias of her comments. I especially liked her coke-fueled interviews for A E Hotchner's Stones bio.

>>>I never doubted MF's hand in this song because melodramatic lines like 'Lying in my hospital bed....the doctor has no face...' had Marianne written all over it.

Exactly. Mick hadn't reached that level of melodrama and turgidity til Streets of Love.

I tend to think Wild Horses is exclusively about the end of Mick's r'ship with MF; the lyrics of the verses support this. Mick tends to use clichés in his lyrics and the Wild Horse chorus would be part of this. (Keith doesn't do this.) I don't know why Keith would claim authorship of this song.

As to why MF is caught up in a time loop, always reliving her past with MJ, I think she has huge regrets. She said recently that it took her 30 years to get over Mick, and I believe her. Not about losing the love of her life, but the life of untold ease, wealth and celebrity she thinks she could have had. She was the first adult love of Mick's life, and they were together for 7 years - she defines it as 64-71, the length of a marriage. She sees herself as his equal, an artist, and all subsequent WAGS were just show ponies, possibly excepting Carla Bruni, with whom she is close friends. But she is underestimating the others' value, and I suppose she is basing this on the fact that the Stones' artistic output declined in quality after she and Mick broke up. Bianca is clearly a very serious woman, and Jerry gave Mick real stability and a family of 4 adored children, whereas MF was such a poor mother that her son was taken from her.

L'Wren is the best choice for him, of all of them. She works non-stop, she is well-liked in Hollywood where Mick wants a power base, her career is on the ascendant and I think he loves participating in this, she is utterly free of scandal or drama, and he says she tolerates his behaviour. My guess is that she will be his last r'ship, unless he goes off the rails completely in his twilight years.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-03 10:33 by Bliss.

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stupidguy2
I actually think Chrissie Shrimpton was Jagger's most interesting early muse. Chrissie was volatile, and pre-fame Jagger was probably not as cocky as later on so he probably got beat up on a regular basis, figuratively and literally.... and those early songs were so combative and full of energy and youthfull discovery of the opposite sex. So I would love to hear from Chrissie. 'Show me the boy and I'll show you the man' or something like that. Chrissie is the underdog here in terms of inspiration. Marianne was hipper, but Chrissie seemed pretty fierce.

Totally agree. Would love to hear from Chrissie. If I remember well Mick legally stopped her from publishing his letters to her. What a shame.

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nkt44

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stupidguy2
I actually think Chrissie Shrimpton was Jagger's most interesting early muse. Chrissie was volatile, and pre-fame Jagger was probably not as cocky as later on so he probably got beat up on a regular basis, figuratively and literally.... and those early songs were so combative and full of energy and youthfull discovery of the opposite sex. So I would love to hear from Chrissie. 'Show me the boy and I'll show you the man' or something like that. Chrissie is the underdog here in terms of inspiration. Marianne was hipper, but Chrissie seemed pretty fierce.

Totally agree. Would love to hear from Chrissie. If I remember well Mick legally stopped her from publishing his letters to her. What a shame.

I think such a wish should be respected. But I personally agree that it could be very interesting to hear more of that. I think that you can feel her energy in the Stones music from that era; one of those women you actually get energy from, instead of them sucking it out of you.

A note to those of you interested in Marianne Faithfull's career and life: I happened to watch recently a DVD of Kenneth Anger's movie "Lucifer Rising", in which Marianne plays Lilith, Lucifer's spurned lover. It was filmed in the early Seventies, and she looked like the very sick junkie that she was.

In the commentary, Kenneth Anger gives quite a bit of info about her. At one point, she is holding a scarf covered in blood, and he said that it was her own blood, that was spilled during one of her suicide attempts, and he said: she was careful to only make one of those attempts when there were people around. Marianne herself mentions only one suicide attempt in her autobiography, but many said that for years she was in the habit of trying to kill herself (or at least of making a show of it, probably as a cry for help, a help that she obviously badly needed). Kenneth Anger also said that when they filmed in Egypt, Marianne smuggled heroin in the country- and that it was a crime that could carry the death penalty.

Other people appear in the movie: Donald Cammel (the director of "Performance"), Jimmy Page, Chris Jagger (Anger wanted Mick and settled for his brother). Some scenes are filmed in the London apartment of Robert Fraser. The movie is about devil worship, as pagan ritual. Incidentally, Keith Richards in "Life" does not mention the Satanic leanings of Anita at the time, does he? I think she is still friends with Kenneth Anger.

BTW, I liked "Lucifer Rising", it is weird and trippy, and short (28 minutes).

The most recent interview with Independent

"I'm sure I'll disappoint many people by saying that my life isn't very exciting any more," Marianne says. "I live alone [in Paris], I don't party very much, and I go to bed at a sensible time. But then it's good for me, just as," she adds, "being able to live in the present, rather than where everybody else wants me to live: in the past."
But the past does have a habit of coming back to haunt her, most recently after last October's publication of Keith Richards' uproarious autobiography Life, in which he revealed, among other things, that Mick Jagger is somewhat lacking in the trouser department. Marianne has been tirelessly solicited for her presumably expert opinion on this ever since.
"Oh God," she moans, clutching at her head, reaching for another cigarette, and frowning so hard that her eyes disappear altogether, "that's another thing that makes me want to retire, the fact that everybody absolutely must discuss the Rolling Stones with me, again and again and again. It was all such a long time ago! Look, whatever Keith has said is his business. I've never said anything about... that, and I never will. It has nothing to do with me any more. I've gotten over it. I just wish everybody else would, too."

[www.independent.co.uk]

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proudmary
Marianne says: "I've gotten over it. I just wish everybody else would, too."

You took the words right out of my mouth

Edit: Just read the complete interview. Very nice. Thanks proudmary.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-06 12:36 by Rolling Hansie.

>>I've never said anything about... that, and I never will. It has nothing to do with me any more. I've gotten over it. I just wish everybody else would, too."

Hang on.....didn't she recently say the todger taunt was 'almost accurate'?

Edit: Wrong message

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-06 23:07 by Rolling Hansie.

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Bliss
>>I've never said anything about... that, and I never will. It has nothing to do with me any more. I've gotten over it. I just wish everybody else would, too."

Hang on.....didn't she recently say the todger taunt was 'almost accurate'?

I think Marianne's comment - " not quite, but nearly" - was taken out of context by Classic Rock. Marianne actually answered to the question if Keith's recollections of the scenes she was involved are accurate or not. From there it was blown away by all the media under the title "MF wades into row over Mick Jagger's 'tiny todger'" . I think that's the case

from MusicOMH
"Marianne Faithfull has a tendency to reveal a lot in interviews; to be highly candid about drugs, depression and disease, to name a few talking points. Does she ever wish she hadn't opened up quite so much?
"I do wish sometimes that I hadn't been so candid. I look forward to the day that I'm not in the papers at all. My ability to chat on almost anything is nice in certain settings, but it can go horribly wrong. I'm too frank, too honest." What are the repercussions of that? "Well, I don't want to talk about it. But it is difficult. People make things up, I think I am going to sue" - insert name of well-known music magazine - "they've made something up about me. Yes, people are still making things up about me."
[www.musicomh.com]

>>>I think Marianne's comment - " not quite, but nearly" - was taken out of context by Classic Rock. Marianne actually answered to the question if Keith's recollections of the scenes she was involved are accurate or not. From there it was blown away by all the media under the title "MF wades into row over Mick Jagger's 'tiny todger'" . I think that's the case.



Yup, of course; it was to do with her liaison with Keith, which apparently did happen, but not at the time Keith claimed, as she was pregnant in Ireland then.

I seriously doubt any woman except ones like the loony loudmouth Janice Dickinson would ever make a public statement about an ex's undersized penis; it would open them up to obvious ripostes about their own genitalia being extra-large.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-07 12:29 by Bliss.

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proudmary
I think Marianne's comment - " not quite, but nearly" - was taken out of context by Classic Rock.

Thanks proudmary. Those were the words I was looking for in my earlier post, but I couldn't find.

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Rolling Hansie

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proudmary
I think Marianne's comment - " not quite, but nearly" - was taken out of context by Classic Rock.

Thanks proudmary. Those were the words I was looking for in my earlier post, but I couldn't find.

You're welcome, Hansie
Keep on rolling

[www.telegraph.co.uk]

Here she says that she settled for Mick because Keith was busy with Linda Keith and in love with Anita.
But .....'he loved me all along...I didn't know...' or some such nonsense.
For those who say Marianne is misquoted, she often seems to misquote herself, forgetting her various versions of events.

Thanks for the article. The ending is sad, really. I've always been under the impression that Marianne bends over backwards to gush about Keith as a way to needle Jagger. I'm not sure Marianne has ever come to grips about her time with Mick and the Stones as her story changes depending on her mood.She has told the Brian Jones death story and the one night stand with Keith story so many times I've lost count. Anita said in an interview Marianne was nostalgic for that era, her time in London with Mick, when Marianne was the Queen of it.

>The Telegraph article really showcases why Marianne is so irritating.

Bliss if you find her so irritating why do you insist upon reading articles about her? You could just ignore her. If I see a thread whose subject I find "irritating" I don't even click on it.

Gd, you are repeating yourself, and I have already explained myself adequately. However, for your benefit, I will clarify once again:

Marianne is an integral part of the Stones early history. She is intelligent and has interesting things to say and usually shares a bit of new information. But her grandiosity and revision of history in her favour in her interviews are definite drawbacks.

And...if you find my posts so irritating, why do you insist upon reading them?

I sit and watch the children play

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Rolling Hansie
I sit and watch the children play

Enjoy, Hansie.
I've been reading about Marianne since 79. I have my perceptions, you have yours. I mean, she lays it all out there. We're not making preconcieved notions, just expressing opinions formulated through.

It seems Mick has never "left" anyone, seems to just let things drag until a breaking point. Marianne has said that after the first few months, they were more like companions, rather than romantic partners. This is significant. Perhaps MF was a fantasy to Mick, as he watched the beautiful barroness' daughter from afar. Maybe the reality was less romantic. In any case, she was his first significant adult female relationship.

I agree about Carla Bruni, she is definately an unknown quantity. I stopped the pontificating after Tattoo You because the music and the good songs became so sporadic and yes, its true we can only guess.
Jagger was apparently obsessed with CB for years. This relatioship lasted through the 90s. I remember reading about it in mags, and of course, she was the bane of Jerry Hall's existence for the duration of that time. I remember reading references to Bruni as far back as the 90 tour. To her credit, she has remained tightlipped about Mick. At one point, she snapped at Jerry Hall's comment about staying away from her man, 'She needs to tell her man to leave me alone..'
I thought that was funny. Ms. Bruni is an interesting interlude. She's intelligent, talented and seemed to be feisty. Maybe she was a breath of fresh air for Mick during his mid-life years.

Carla on the 90 tour? She said in some interview in the last couple of years that she had been involved with Mick for 8 years. She has stated a few times I can recall that the thrill of sexual passion disappears after the first few weeks.

He has been with L'Wren since 2002. I also read that Mick wanted to leave Jerry and marry her, but she refused. (This was from an excerpt of her bio.) I find this unlikely. I recall an interview where she said what agony it was to be involved with a married man, though she could have been referring to a number of other men!

It's kind of interesting that all of Mick's women(I mean serious rel-ps) had father issues
Marianne - Her parents have divorced when she was 3 or 4 years. She never had normal relations with her father

Bianca - was raised by single mother and her father was out of touch

Jerry - run away from the violent father who had beaten her

Carla- The illegal daughter who felt all her life that she's different. And only couple of years ago she has learned that she is the daughter of the Brazilian musician with whom her mother had an affair

L'Wren - The foster daughter in a Mormon family. I think that with her appearance it was uneasy to grow up in Utah

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Bliss
Carla on the 90 tour? She said in some interview in the last couple of years that she had been involved with Mick for 8 years. She has stated a few times I can recall that the thrill of sexual passion disappears after the first few weeks.

He has been with L'Wren since 2002. I also read that Mick wanted to leave Jerry and marry her, but she refused. (This was from an excerpt of her bio.) I find this unlikely. I recall an interview where she said what agony it was to be involved with a married man, though she could have been referring to a number of other men!

Yeah, definately an unknown. She has been linked to others. Maybe she's a female Mick, randy and restless and Mick couldn't catch her. Mick was unscrupulous throughout the 80s and 90s. He was one of the names mentioned during that whole Heidi Fliess thing and women have come out of the woodwork in recent years. But Bruni might have been just elusive enough to be irrestible to Jagger and maybe that was part of the attraction, the chase. When you read about most of these women who were Jagger's "flings", including Jerry Hall while he was married to Bianca, they all have a similar story: he bombarded them with letters, roses, begged them to carry his children, told them there was no one else, told them he could'nt stand being away from them, called them 10 times a day etc... always made it all very clandestine and desparate. Seems to me Jagger is addicted to the notion of romance. Maybe Bruni was too smart to fall for that and hence, he was obsessed.

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proudmary
It's kind of interesting that all of Mick's women(I mean serious rel-ps) had father issues
Marianne - Her parents have divorced when she was 3 or 4 years. She never had normal relations with her father

Bianca - was raised by single mother and her father was out of touch

Jerry - run away from the violent father who had beaten her

Carla- The illegal daughter who felt all her life that she's different. And only couple of years ago she has learned that she is the daughter of the Brazilian musician with whom her mother had an affair

L'Wren - The foster daughter in a Mormon family. I think that with her appearance it was uneasy to grow up in Utah

True, I've noticed that also. MF, Bianca, Jerry Hall all seemed to have trust issues, and what a toxic partner Jagger must have been! The ultimate adulterer.
I didn't know that about Bruni.
L'wren was adopted and raised Mormon, that is very interesting. Perhaps she's the most secure of them all.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-03-09 00:18 by stupidguy2.

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stupidguy2

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proudmary
It's kind of interesting that all of Mick's women(I mean serious rel-ps) had father issues
Marianne - Her parents have divorced when she was 3 or 4 years. She never had normal relations with her father

Bianca - was raised by single mother and her father was out of touch

Jerry - run away from the violent father who had beaten her

Carla- The illegal daughter who felt all her life that she's different. And only couple of years ago she has learned that she is the daughter of the Brazilian musician with whom her mother had an affair

L'Wren - The foster daughter in a Mormon family. I think that with her appearance it was uneasy to grow up in Utah

True, I've noticed that also. MF, Bianca, Jerry Hall all seemed to have trust issues, and what a toxic partner Jagger must have been! The ultimate adulterer.
I didn't know that about Bruni.
L'wren was adopted and raised Mormon, that is very interesting. Perhaps she's the most secure of them all.

I like Carla. She's very interesting, intelligent, talented, and extremely poised. She's the most secure of all these women. Bianca is secure,but bitchy. Marianne was, and still is, a wreck, but working on herself and making some progress--but very full of herself. She needs to drop the pride for a bit of humility. She's not as great as she thinks. Jerry was nice, fun, larger than life with her megawatt smile, an excellent mother, but stayed with Mick far too long, and realizes it now. (Mick has been spoiled by women. They let him do whatever the hell he wants and just put up with his sh*t.) L'Wren is very insecure, but sensible. I think she's insecure because of her height and her adoption issues, but we all have our issues. She's extremely talented, and looks great when she smiles. She should try to always smile on her pics, even if she has to fake it, because she looks really pretty when she looks happy. On most of her pictures, she just looks extemely insecure. She needs to relax and enjoy the ride. That's my 2 cents. (Oops--I broke Rockman's rule.)

Yes, Carla is secure; she wrote that she had had a wonderful childhood and had been showered with love, but I would say she is selfish to the point of being evil. Look at how she broke up Raphael Eindhoven's marriage, while she was living with his father! Justine Levy, Raphael's wife, even wrote a novel about her afterward. And with Jerry...she met Mick in Thailand within a day of Jerry giving birth. Sarko has to put up with a number of her exes coming to stay with them at her family villa during the holidays. Carla definitely runs the show, and I can't see Mick putting up with that!

Marianne is really faithfull to herself! She was so furious in the Independent interview - "that's another thing that makes me want to retire, the fact that everybody absolutely must discuss the Rolling Stones with me, again and again and again. It was all such a long time ago! Look, whatever Keith has said is his business. I've never said anything about... that, and I never will. It has nothing to do with me any more. I've gotten over it. I just wish everybody else would, too."

And then with the Telegraph - "she recalls that for months she and Jagger slept on opposite sides of a gigantic bed, avoiding sex. She implies that in those days Jagger was, shall we say, rather orally fixated, whereas she most definitely wasn’t: “Not that Keith cared. He’s a real man. But one of those things about being in that world…” she doesn’t finish the sentence. “We had such a great night. Wow, I’ll never forget that.”

WHAT THE FOCK SHE IS TALKING ABOUT? It's so embarassing!

This is quite the different interview with her by Lynn Barber. Lynn is great interviewer who made interviews with almost everybody.(There is nice movie "An Education" based on her book)

'You know, I'm not everybody's cup of tea!'
Late, rude and unapologetic... and then the interview goes from bad to worse. But after some prompting and wine, Marianne Faithfull talks to Lynn Barber about finding a new lover at last, what she really wore under the infamous fur coat and why Intimacy may be her best film ever
Lynn Barber
The Observer, Sunday 15 July 2001

Marianne Faithfull once said, 'I am a Fabulous Beast, and as such, I should only be glimpsed very rarely, through the forest, running away for dear life.' How wise she was. If I were ever asked to interview her again, I would turn into a Fabulous Beast myself and hightail it to the forest. I first glimpsed Her Fabulousness ages ago at a restaurant in Notting Hill, 192, where she was sitting all alone at lunchtime reading the papers. 192 is a very sociable sort of table-hopping restaurant, so I thought there was something faintly sad about her solitude. But then a man joined her - it might even have been my future nemesis, François - and she simply handed him a slice of newspaper and carried on reading right through lunch. It was so devastatingly drop-dead cool that all the chattering at the other tables somehow died - we farmyard animals knew we were in the presence of a Fabulous Beast.
So when I heard she was coming to London (she lives in Dublin) to publicise the film Intimacy, I jumped at the chance to interview her. It all seemed quite straightforward: she would go to David Bailey's studio at 12.30pm to have her photo taken - she likes David Bailey, they 'go back a long way', to the 60s - and I would pick her up at 4pm and interview her till 6pm when a car would take her to the airport for her flight back to Dublin. My only worry (ha ha, in retrospect) was where I could take her between 4pm and 6pm, because I thought as a reformed junkie she wouldn't fancy a wine bar. Silly old me.
At 1pm, the publicist phones to say Marianne has not yet arrived at Bailey's - she was still in bed when they rang at 12.45pm - so everything has been put back an hour. Fine, or fine-ish. I arrive at Bailey's studio eager-beaver at 5pm, and walk into an atmosphere you could cut with a knife. Marianne, trussed like a chicken in Vivienne Westwood with her boobs hanging out, ignores me, Bailey likewise; half a dozen assorted stylists, hairdressers, make-up people stand around looking tense. The PR is friendly but apologetic - she says the photographs will take at least another hour and I should push off and have coffee. A Frenchman who looks like Woody Allen but without his suavity and charm introduces himself as François Ravard, Marianne's manager. I wait for some apology or explanation of why they are running two hours late - it never comes. Finally I say, 'You're running late?' 'Ah yes,' he says with a shrug. 'You know how it eez - it eez always the same.' Really? 'But don't worry,' he adds, 'we have dinner later.' Thanks a million, mon frère - I was supposed to be having dinner with friends. I push off to make calls cancelling my evening.
When I return to Bailey's, the atmosphere is even worse. No sign of Marianne - she has gone off to change - Bailey looks like thunder. Various sotto voce conversations are going on around me and I hear the ominous phrase from Bailey 'as long as it takes'. Time for my tantrum, I feel. Choosing my spot carefully, I stamp my feet like a flamenco dancer and address the studio at large. 'There is no point in taking photographs,' I warble, 'unless there is an article to stick them in. And there is no article unless I get my interview now.' The hair and make-up people stare blankly - so uncool! - but Bailey's assistant and the PR seem to get the point and agree that they will shoot one more pose and finish at 6.15pm. This news is relayed to Bailey with much fierce muttering and hostile staring at me. I decide to go outside and do some deep breathing.
When I get back, Bailey is at the camera; Marianne, in a black mac and fishnet tights, is sprawling with her legs wide apart, her black satin crotch glinting between her scrawny 55-year-old thighs, doing sex kitten moues at the camera. Oh please, stop! I want to cry - this is sadism, this is misogyny, this is cruelty to grandmothers. I wonder if Bailey actually hates her - I wonder if this is her punishment for turning up late. I hear the agent and the Frenchman muttering behind me - 'They won't use this, they can't.' So why is Bailey shooting it then?
Suddenly, the session is over, and we - Marianne, the Frenchman, the PR and me - emerge into the street where a chauffeur-driven limousine has been waiting all this time. It is now 6.45pm and Faithfull has still barely said hello. The PR says we can eat at the Italian restaurant at the end of the street. Marianne says she can't possibly walk, so we pile into the limousine to drive 50 yards to the corner. It is a sweet, friendly, family-run Italian restaurant that has no idea what hell awaits them. No sooner have we been ushered into a private room downstairs than Marianne is muttering, 'What do you have to do to get a drink around here?' Order it, seems the obvious answer, but that's too simple - François has to order it for her. Unfortunately - my huge mistake - I have let him and the PR eat downstairs with us, albeit at a separate table, and even more unfortunately I have placed Marianne against the wall, where she can see François over my shoulder. I could smack myself: what's the use of serving all these years in the interviewing trenches if you still make such elementary mistakes?
Suddenly, Marianne is shouting at François: 'Get it together!' and he is shouting back: 'What do you want , Marianne?' 'I don't know . What have they got ?' she counters, drumming her feet under the table and moaning: 'I. Can. Hardly. Bear. It.' François keeps asking whether she wants wine or a cocktail. I'm thinking rat poison. Eventually she tells François a bottle of rosé. The waiter brings it with commendable speed and starts pouring two glasses. She snatches mine away - 'We don't need that. Where's the ice bucket?' The waiter goes away and comes back with an ice bucket. 'I'll have the veal escalope,' she tells him. He waits politely for my order. 'Veal! Vitello!' she snaps - she can't understand why he is still hanging around when he should be off escaloping veal. 'I'll have the same,' I say wearily.
I'm already fed up with her and we haven't even started. But at this point - a tad late, in my view - she suddenly flicks the switch marked Charm and bathes me in its glow. 'Cheers!' she says. 'Sorry I yelled. A slight crise there. It's been a long day.' (Really? She was still in bed at one, it is now seven, hardly a full shift at the coalface.) But anyway, she is - finally - apologetic. And I in turn put on my thrilled-to-meet-you face and tell her that I deeply enjoyed her autobiography Faithfull (1994), which I did. It is a truly amazing story - a pop star at 17, a mother at 18, Mick Jagger's girlfriend at 19, reigning over Cheyne Walk - and yet by her thirties she was a heroin addict living on the street in Soho. Even if she didn't write a word of it (David Dalton was co-author), she deserves some credit just for living it. For a while she basks in my compliments and then switches off the charm and snaps, 'But I'm not going to talk about the book, I want to talk about the film.' Huh? Too late I realise my mistake with the placement - obviously there has been some signal from François.
So then she launches into her spiel about Intimacy - how she saw Patrice Chéreau, the director, in a Paris restaurant and rushed over to tell him she loved his film La Reine Margot and to ask: Can I be in your next film? He said yes, and started writing a part for her that night. It is quite a small part, as a loopy bag lady, but Chéreau evidently convinced her it's the pivot of the film. Did she mind having to look so unglamorous? 'I did and I didn't. The first time I saw it, it was a shock. But I would jump off a cliff for Patrice. I don't know why, but I really fell in love with him and I want to work with him again. He's one of the reasons I'm doing this interview. I want the film to be a success - I want Patrice to go on making films in English so I can work with him again.'
Actually, I would have thought that Patrice Chéreau's career could survive without the services of a ratty old rock chick. But let that go - she is very good in the film, however briefly. She has always had the potential to be a good actress, but four years ago she told the Radio Times, 'I was never an actress. That's a waste of my time.' So is she an actress or isn't she? 'Well, you know I love acting, but I haven't ever made it my priority. Maybe that was a mistake. But I couldn't help it. Music really is my life. And nearly every film I've been on has been crap, except Hamlet [with Nicol Williamson], which is brilliant. And I've ended up very fond of La Motocyclette [Girl on a Motorcycle] although it was a horrible experience to make. But honestly, the rest of the filmwork I've done has been ghastly. So I used to feel, till now, that I hadn't had the opportunity to be in really good films with really good directors. Because I could have been a really good actress - and I still could.'
Yet, judging from her book, she had endless opportunities to be a good actress, but invariably blew them away by turning up to work drugged to the eyeballs or not turning up at all. It might have been an obscure desire to punish her mother who had huge ambitions for her little princess. But also she was hell-bent on becoming a junkie from the moment she read The Naked Lunch - she wanted to be a junkie more than she wanted to succeed as an actress or to marry Mick Jagger. Jagger was surprisingly patient for a long time - he took the rap for her in the notorious drugs bust at Redlands when he claimed her pills were his. (Incidentally, she says about the drugs bust that, yes, she was naked under a fur rug - but it was a very large fur rug - and no, there was no Mars bar involved. But she hasn't eaten one since.)
She split with Jagger in 1970 and became a full-time heroin addict, living in squats and on the street. But she was lucky in that friends got her on an NHS drugs programme, which meant she could get her daily fix on prescription from the chemist. She had one of the highest dosages going - 25 jacks of heroin a day. It left her with poor circulation which is still evident in her angry red, mottled arms.
It is a mystery what she lived on in the 70s - she says it's a mystery to her, too. 'I don't know how I survived. There was a time after the 60s, when I was - I call it depressed - where there was absolutely no income. But I managed somehow. My parents didn't have any money. I didn't sell my body. I don't know how I managed. Flying through life on charm, I suppose. But I never took unemployment, welfare, ever. I have a thing about it.' Scratch an old hippie, find a Thatcherite, as Julie Burchill always says. Faithfull was far too hoity-toity to do anything as common as signing on. She always made sure people knew her schoolteacher mother was a baroness (Austro-Hungarian, natch). There is a theory that Jagger only embarked on his social mountaineering to impress Faithfull, because she sneered at him for being middle class - of course he totally gazumped her within months. Anyway, she 'lived on her wits' and according to Chris Blackwell of Island was very good at touching people such as doormen for the odd fiver or tenner.
What drove her to drugs? 'I don't know that anything drove me. I didn't even like it that much either; I just think it was like a good anaesthetic.' But she says in her book that she always had an attraction to the 'Dionysian' life. 'And I still do!' she grins. 'I'm always going to be drawn to that sort of fantasy. Though nowadays I don't do anything about it.' Does she still take drugs? 'Occasionally. I'm not going to go into it. Obviously no heroin. And I don't at all trust all these new drugs; they're not a good idea. But you know I'm a very decadent person, I really am. Whether I'm on drugs or not, it doesn't change anything. I can see why I liked them, and I can't sort of put that down. It's just if you want to do anything else in your life, it doesn't really go.'
She had one failed detox in England in the early 80s, and then went to Hazelden, the Minnesota clinic, in 1985 and cleaned up. She stayed completely clean, and went to NA meetings for five-and-a-half years. She also moved to Ireland, to the remote and beautiful Shell Cottage on a country estate in County Wicklow, and lived very quietly, alone. She had friends three miles down the road, but she couldn't walk that far and couldn't drive. 'It felt very lonely, and I was there nine years, and it's a long time to be all on your own. But I'm very glad I did and it was really great for my spiritual life.'
But four years ago she moved in to Dublin. The papers reported that she was chucked out of Shell Cottage after a rowdy birthday party caused £5,000 worth of damage. She says not so. 'I gave it up because I was lonely. It did have rats . And I'd lived there just long enough. It was self-protection, and there was a moment when it was over. I know the landlord didn't really like me. But you know, a lot of people don't really like me. I'm not everybody's cup of tea!'
I like her for saying that. Unfortunately, liking someone, with me, always provokes a disastrous urge to give good advice, and out it pops. Surely, I tell her, she shouldn't be drinking, surely Hazelden taught her that sobriety was the only salvation? 'I'm not going into all that,' she snaps. And somehow she must have signalled an SOS because suddenly the PR is beside us, telling Marianne, 'I'm really sorry to interrupt, but I do think we need to lead it slightly more to Intimacy . I know you've got lots to say about the film.' François simultaneously explodes behind me, 'I knew it! I knew this would happen! It's always the same - this is going to be the last time, Marianne.' 'Why don't you join us, François?' I say, thinking I'd rather have him in sight than shouting over my shoulder, but Marianne says quickly, 'Oh, you don't want that!'
Heroically, like a good Girl Guide, she pulls herself together and starts yakking about Intimacy until everyone has calmed down. We both rave about the sex scenes between Kerry Fox and Mark Rylance - she says they remind her of Lucian Freud paintings - she says they're almost like seeing sex for the first time. And, she adds, the orgy scene is brilliant. 'Though of course I've never been to an orgy.' Oh come, Marianne! 'In my mind. I've never actually physically been to an orgy. But it does fascinate me - how do you show decadence onscreen? And I'm sure that it's not about chandeliers and opulent surroundings, it's exactly like in Intimacy. True decadence is an empty room with one bare lightbulb.' In the book, she confesses that sex was always her Primal Anxiety. Every 60s male fantasised about going to bed with the Girl on a Motorcycle - but she suffered terrible stage fright before the act and would do almost anything to put it off. She once spent days hanging around Bob Dylan, seeing off the other groupies, until he finally made his move and then she told him, 'No - I'm pregnant.' Was it performance anxiety? Did she think she was a lousy lay? 'No. I am sexy, we all are - but people saw me as some kind of illusion and I always had a problem with that. But it doesn't really come up any more because, you know, I have a lover and I don't have to worry about it.'

'Who is it?'

'I'm not telling you. I just thought I should explain that when I say I'm not worried about it any more, that doesn't mean I don't have sex any more. It's just not an issue in the sense that one isn't having to take one's clothes off and go to bed with strangers.' Is this a long-term relationship? 'Yes. A deeply committed and serious relationship. But private.' Might they marry? 'I'm not the marrying kind.'

'It is a man, is it?' I blurt, suddenly remembering that her book includes several scenes with women. 'Yes. I'm not gay. I would never rule it out, but it's obviously not my thing - although very nice and perfectly sexy and so on. And anyway I've moved on from that, because I'm in love.'
No amount of questioning from me will yield any more, and she segues smoothly into talking about her life in Dublin. 'I take care of myself. I go swimming. I read a lot. I see my friends. I talk on the phone. I watch telly. I go to bed quite early.' She is scared to live in London because 'it's too on' and she thinks she would be pestered by paparazzi. But she sometimes dreams of having a second home in London so she could see more of her son and grandchildren. She had her only child, Nicholas, when she was just 18, and lost custody of him when she became a junkie. But they are on good terms again now. 'I'm really glad I had Nicholas - though I never ever meant to have children. But I had this sort of force that guided me and I knew that if I didn't have Nicholas I'd never have a child - and I never would have, either. But I could see myself going out with my beautiful grown-up son. And I did that last night - we went to see Beck at the Brixton Academy and it was wonderful. I never quite saw the grandchildren!'
Over coffee, I ask her about François. ' Darling François!' she exclaims, 'I'm sorry he's a bit grumpy - he's had so much of it. He's been my manager for seven years.' Just for acting, or for music as well? 'The whole thing. The whole treatment.' She says this almost with a wink and suddenly - how can I have been so slow? - bells ring, scales fall from eyes, and I squeal, aghast, 'Is he The Man?' She says she won't talk about it, but the answer is all too obviously Yes. Good God. 'Well, I find him very difficult,' I tell her. 'Yes,' she says, 'but that's partly his job.'
François has obviously been earwigging again, because he suddenly looms over me and shouts, 'Are you talking of me? I hate this @#$%& tabloid paper. Sex and drugs and all that. I just allowed this interview for Patrice, because Marianne loves Patrice. If I could put it back, I will.' Marianne hisses at the PR, 'You let him get drunk, you fool.' François, meanwhile, grabs the bill from the waiter and plonks it in front of me. 'Oh,' says Marianne sarcastically, 'is this on The Observer - that dreadful tabloid newspaper? Sorry, Lynn.' François shouts at her, 'Don't be sorry, Marianne. Don't apologise. You will see the piece, it will just be sex and drugs, always the same shit. Trust me, for seven years I am telling you the truth.' The PR intervenes brightly, 'I think everything's OK' only to get a blistering from Marianne: 'Well, no. Everything is not OK. I mean, I'm cool, but François is not pleased. Don't let's go into denial - it's not a river in Egypt.'
So then François snarls some more insults at me and I pay the bill and flounce out. The poor chauffeur is still waiting outside and for a moment I think, 'Tee hee, I could take the limo home and leave them to grub around for a taxi.' But then I think how furious François would be and how he'd take it out on Marianne, and decide I don't really want to punish her quite that much. Though remembering her performance with the waiter I'm fairly torn. I don't for a minute believe in their nice cop-nasty cop routine. If François is bad, she's bad too - in fact, maybe worse: she chose him, after all.
Oh, she is exasperating! She is so likeable in some ways but also such a pain. The question that was spinning round my head the whole time was: Who does she think she is? She is a singer with one good album (Broken English) to her credit, an actress with one or two good films. Really, her main claim to fame is that she was Mick Jagger's girlfriend in the 60s, but of course she would never admit that. She thinks she's a great artist who has yet to unleash her full genius on the world. Maybe one day she will, and then I will beg to interview her again on bended knee. Till then, back to the forest, you tiresome old Fabulous Beast.

Very cool and revealing interview. Lynn Barber seems to react to Marianne the same way I do, or perhaps she's just a real bitch.

imagine having these women from decades ago STILL talking about you.

cool thing about jagger is how he always sees the humor in life,you'll see alot of pictures of him just cracking up laughing and his attitude seems to be basically,um,o.k. i cheated on you DECADES ago,move on with your freakin life already.

cant remember the exact year [2000 maybe?] but he was asked about marianne and she was still hanging around his family mick said [i'm paraphrasing a bit]" she embarrassed my mother by blurting out that i was good in bed during a dinner"

the interviewer seemed a little shocked and said"how did this social situation occur?

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Bliss
Very cool and revealing interview. Lynn Barber seems to react to Marianne the same way I do, or perhaps she's just a real bitch.

Thanks for the article Mary. I agree Bliss, there is a hint of 'who the @#$%& does she think she is...' in the author's tone. Here's another gem from the Independent:

"My entire back catalogue, pretty much, has been undervalued and overlooked. Even Broken English. When they compiled the 100 best records of the century back in 2000, Broken English was nowhere to be seen." She snorts. "Which I think was just absurd."