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DoxaQuote
His Majesty
I kinda miss the time when I knew very little about them and just loved the music.
I think it is like Dylan sings "What looks large from the distance is never that big when comes near". Perhaps with The Stones is better just to dig the myth, the image, the supposed coolness (there once was that!), not to really dig it up and try to find out what they and their life really is like. It's the great music and interesting, mysterious aura surrounding it (because hey once were an original, unique top-class phenomenon in the phase of rock and roll culture shaping itself). I never took Sanchez's book so seriously, nor Scaduto's - funnily they somehow made them even look more mysterious, dark and cool...but I didn't thought or reflect the claims of the books too deeply. But if Keith Richards decides to share the dirty details of it in 550 pages, well - you are forced to see the reality of the small-mindness of their (his) life. You cannot esacape it, you need to take it seriously. And it's bloody wicked life. To my eyes Keith in trying to maintain his image, he succeeds in shooting to its leg. I don't think it is intentional. It sounds more like all Keith any longer can do is to 'share the dirty details of the life that once made him a legend'. He is milking out his own image and legend ("Hey, don't go yet! I have one more good druggie story to tell ya!") But the book sells like a Rolling Stones warhorses tour...
- Doxa
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angee
Most who feel "soured" by Life don't seem to feel that same way about Mick when details about his life come out. Mick didn't come off too well in Bill German's book.
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What about Keith makes people so prone to romanticize him or idealize him, at least before the book? Is that because he is perceived as the "heart" of the Rolling Stones?
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angee
Most who feel "soured" by Life don't seem to feel that same way about Mick when details about his life come out. Mick didn't come off too well in Bill German's book.
but mick doesn't boast about his deeds or misdeeds, angee. No doubt he has an ego, but at least in public he usually tries to dismiss his mythology.Quote
What about Keith makes people so prone to romanticize him or idealize him, at least before the book? Is that because he is perceived as the "heart" of the Rolling Stones?
I think that's right, and hopefully that perception has now been corrected. Even if, musically, there's a great deal of truth to it, at least until the early '70s.
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angeeQuote
DoxaQuote
His Majesty
I kinda miss the time when I knew very little about them and just loved the music.
I think it is like Dylan sings "What looks large from the distance is never that big when comes near". Perhaps with The Stones is better just to dig the myth, the image, the supposed coolness (there once was that!), not to really dig it up and try to find out what they and their life really is like. It's the great music and interesting, mysterious aura surrounding it (because hey once were an original, unique top-class phenomenon in the phase of rock and roll culture shaping itself). I never took Sanchez's book so seriously, nor Scaduto's - funnily they somehow made them even look more mysterious, dark and cool...but I didn't thought or reflect the claims of the books too deeply. But if Keith Richards decides to share the dirty details of it in 550 pages, well - you are forced to see the reality of the small-mindness of their (his) life. You cannot esacape it, you need to take it seriously. And it's bloody wicked life. To my eyes Keith in trying to maintain his image, he succeeds in shooting to its leg. I don't think it is intentional. It sounds more like all Keith any longer can do is to 'share the dirty details of the life that once made him a legend'. He is milking out his own image and legend ("Hey, don't go yet! I have one more good druggie story to tell ya!") But the book sells like a Rolling Stones warhorses tour...
- Doxa
I don't know. To me, it's an honest book, in the sense of telling the truth as he sees it. I don't see anything much in the book we didn't know, as others have said. Actually I found Clapton's a little more disturbing. Most who feel "soured" by Life don't seem to feel that same way about Mick when details about his life come out. Mick didn't come off too well in Bill German's book.
What about Keith makes people so prone to romanticize him or idealize him, at least before the book? Is that because he is perceived as the "heart" of the Rolling Stones?
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StonesTodQuote
DoxaQuote
His Majesty
I kinda miss the time when I knew very little about them and just loved the music.
I think it is like Dylan sings "What looks large from the distance is never that big when comes near". - Doxa
or even "close up ain't never that big." bob was never particularly good with proper english...
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Bliss
Once upon a time Keith and I were in perfect harmony:
when we both loved Mick
when we both thought drugs were a fine road to self-discovery
when I did not know that he had ripped off Mick Taylor and others
when I had not yet read Spanish Tony's book in 1979
when there wasn't such a trail of corpses behind him
when he was still quite beautiful to look at
when I hadn't paid a fortune for concert tickets and he was drunk onstage
and when his current playing and composing were superb and giving me great joy.
But things have changed a lot since those days.
I admit that I found some things really contemptible:
His trashing of Mick's reputation as a sex god, whilst elevating himself, despite a lot of prior evidence to the contrary
His horribly mean-spirited remarks about Brian, Donald Cammell and Scott Cantrell
His complete revision of history, including an imaginary liaison with Marianne when she was known to have been pregnant in Ireland at the time, and the nonsense about seeing Muddy Waters painting the ceiling at Chess Records
His lack of knowledge about the burial of his dead child
His nostalgic elevation of Anita in view of his wife Patti's loyalty and intrinsic worth
His references to women as "bitches".
However, my opinion of him cannot diminish in response to anything he says or writes in the same way it probably could have in the past.
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BlissQuote
angeeQuote
DoxaQuote
His Majesty
I kinda miss the time when I knew very little about them and just loved the music.
I think it is like Dylan sings "What looks large from the distance is never that big when comes near". Perhaps with The Stones is better just to dig the myth, the image, the supposed coolness (there once was that!), not to really dig it up and try to find out what they and their life really is like. It's the great music and interesting, mysterious aura surrounding it (because hey once were an original, unique top-class phenomenon in the phase of rock and roll culture shaping itself). I never took Sanchez's book so seriously, nor Scaduto's - funnily they somehow made them even look more mysterious, dark and cool...but I didn't thought or reflect the claims of the books too deeply. But if Keith Richards decides to share the dirty details of it in 550 pages, well - you are forced to see the reality of the small-mindness of their (his) life. You cannot esacape it, you need to take it seriously. And it's bloody wicked life. To my eyes Keith in trying to maintain his image, he succeeds in shooting to its leg. I don't think it is intentional. It sounds more like all Keith any longer can do is to 'share the dirty details of the life that once made him a legend'. He is milking out his own image and legend ("Hey, don't go yet! I have one more good druggie story to tell ya!") But the book sells like a Rolling Stones warhorses tour...
- Doxa
I don't know. To me, it's an honest book, in the sense of telling the truth as he sees it. I don't see anything much in the book we didn't know, as others have said. Actually I found Clapton's a little more disturbing. Most who feel "soured" by Life don't seem to feel that same way about Mick when details about his life come out. Mick didn't come off too well in Bill German's book.
What about Keith makes people so prone to romanticize him or idealize him, at least before the book? Is that because he is perceived as the "heart" of the Rolling Stones?
It's because Keith is perceived as one of the people, down-to-earth, whereas Mick is perceived as living in the rarified atmosphere of the jet-setting super-rich. Also, Keith is thought to be very open and warm in interviews, whereas Mick is always distant and closed.
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Bliss
It's because Keith is perceived as one of the people, down-to-earth, whereas Mick is perceived as living in the rarified atmosphere of the jet-setting super-rich. Also, Keith is thought to be very open and warm in interviews, whereas Mick is always distant and closed.
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His Majesty
Well, the talk in this thread has helped lessen the sour taste, but the book has changed my perception of Keith and the Rolling Stones forever more just as Bill Wymans, Tony Sanchez's etc did.
Anyway, put all their bad points together and they really are/were quite a horrible bunch of people. Guns, Knives, women beating, screwing each others women, junkies, alcoholics, abandoning kids, mocking the dead, knowingly sleeping with underage girls etc etc. Phew!!1
It really is quite ridiculous how so many including myself are drawn to them even going as far as to having a favourite and all that stuff.
I kinda miss the time when I knew very little about them and just loved the music.
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Rocky Dijon
... Townhend's remarks when he inducted them in the Hall of Fame ("Guys, whatever you do don't try to grow old gracefully. It wouldn't suit you.")
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Bliss
Once upon a time Keith and I were in perfect harmony:
when we both loved Mick
when we both thought drugs were a fine road to self-discovery
when I did not know that he had ripped off Mick Taylor and others
when I had not yet read Spanish Tony's book in 1979
when there wasn't such a trail of corpses behind him
when he was still quite beautiful to look at
when I hadn't paid a fortune for concert tickets and he was drunk onstage
and when his current playing and composing were superb and giving me great joy.
But things have changed a lot since those days.
I admit that I found some things really contemptible:
His trashing of Mick's reputation as a sex god, whilst elevating himself, despite a lot of prior evidence to the contrary
His horribly mean-spirited remarks about Brian, Donald Cammell and Scott Cantrell
His complete revision of history, including an imaginary liaison with Marianne when she was known to have been pregnant in Ireland at the time, and the nonsense about seeing Muddy Waters painting the ceiling at Chess Records
His lack of knowledge about the burial of his dead child
His nostalgic elevation of Anita in view of his wife Patti's loyalty and intrinsic worth
His references to women as "bitches".
However, my opinion of him cannot diminish in response to anything he says or writes in the same way it probably could have in the past.
You know, the way you put it in a list like that, that's basically how I feel. How I went from thinking when I was young, wow, he's really cool, to thinking, as I got older and learned more about him, well, you know, that really isn't so cool. Neither is that. And especially that.
If I had a friend who did even some of the thing's Keith's done, I don't think I'd stay friend's with him, regardless of who he was, and what he did for a living.
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BlissQuote
bustedtrousersQuote
Bliss
Once upon a time Keith and I were in perfect harmony:
when we both loved Mick
when we both thought drugs were a fine road to self-discovery
when I did not know that he had ripped off Mick Taylor and others
when I had not yet read Spanish Tony's book in 1979
when there wasn't such a trail of corpses behind him
when he was still quite beautiful to look at
when I hadn't paid a fortune for concert tickets and he was drunk onstage
and when his current playing and composing were superb and giving me great joy.
But things have changed a lot since those days.
I admit that I found some things really contemptible:
His trashing of Mick's reputation as a sex god, whilst elevating himself, despite a lot of prior evidence to the contrary
His horribly mean-spirited remarks about Brian, Donald Cammell and Scott Cantrell
His complete revision of history, including an imaginary liaison with Marianne when she was known to have been pregnant in Ireland at the time, and the nonsense about seeing Muddy Waters painting the ceiling at Chess Records
His lack of knowledge about the burial of his dead child
His nostalgic elevation of Anita in view of his wife Patti's loyalty and intrinsic worth
His references to women as "bitches".
However, my opinion of him cannot diminish in response to anything he says or writes in the same way it probably could have in the past.
You know, the way you put it in a list like that, that's basically how I feel. How I went from thinking when I was young, wow, he's really cool, to thinking, as I got older and learned more about him, well, you know, that really isn't so cool. Neither is that. And especially that.
If I had a friend who did even some of the thing's Keith's done, I don't think I'd stay friend's with him, regardless of who he was, and what he did for a living.
There is something else at work here:>> I << have changed in certain ways, and Keith has just carried on being himself.
'when we both thought drugs were a fine road to self-discovery'
That is the heart of it. To me, now, drinking and drugs are just childish escapism at best, and a way to ruin your life and everyone's around you, at worst. The more Keith waxes nostalgic for the bad old days, the more turned off I get. But I recognise it's not him; it's me.
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Amsterdamned
Our boys?
It's no local football club.
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StonesTodQuote
Amsterdamned
Our boys?
It's no local football club.
once our boys, always our boys. boys will be boys and stones will be boys.
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angee
Doxa, I agree with your point that Mick was not known as the nice guy so anything he says or does gets a different kind of attention from Keith.
I don't concur that Keith is phony now, compared to honest in the past or that there's a clear distinction, from whatever date that was. I don't
see him trying to live according to the myth, as you say, just recognizing how he's been portrayed.
Turd On the Run, excellent points about Rock and Roll and the Stones. No, they weren't kidding.
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Turd On The Run
...
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Turd On The Run
This is The Rolling Stones...and they don't play.
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BlissQuote
bustedtrousersQuote
Bliss
Once upon a time Keith and I were in perfect harmony:
when we both loved Mick
when we both thought drugs were a fine road to self-discovery
when I did not know that he had ripped off Mick Taylor and others
when I had not yet read Spanish Tony's book in 1979
when there wasn't such a trail of corpses behind him
when he was still quite beautiful to look at
when I hadn't paid a fortune for concert tickets and he was drunk onstage
and when his current playing and composing were superb and giving me great joy.
But things have changed a lot since those days.
I admit that I found some things really contemptible:
His trashing of Mick's reputation as a sex god, whilst elevating himself, despite a lot of prior evidence to the contrary
His horribly mean-spirited remarks about Brian, Donald Cammell and Scott Cantrell
His complete revision of history, including an imaginary liaison with Marianne when she was known to have been pregnant in Ireland at the time, and the nonsense about seeing Muddy Waters painting the ceiling at Chess Records
His lack of knowledge about the burial of his dead child
His nostalgic elevation of Anita in view of his wife Patti's loyalty and intrinsic worth
His references to women as "bitches".
However, my opinion of him cannot diminish in response to anything he says or writes in the same way it probably could have in the past.
You know, the way you put it in a list like that, that's basically how I feel. How I went from thinking when I was young, wow, he's really cool, to thinking, as I got older and learned more about him, well, you know, that really isn't so cool. Neither is that. And especially that.
If I had a friend who did even some of the thing's Keith's done, I don't think I'd stay friend's with him, regardless of who he was, and what he did for a living.
There is something else at work here:>> I << have changed in certain ways, and Keith has just carried on being himself.
'when we both thought drugs were a fine road to self-discovery'
That is the heart of it. To me, now, drinking and drugs are just childish escapism at best, and a way to ruin your life and everyone's around you, at worst. The more Keith waxes nostalgic for the bad old days, the more turned off I get. But I recognise it's not him; it's me.
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His Majesty
Fair game for living the life, doing your best and/or worst, but what the ferk is all this moaning and bitching about it years after the fact!? He needs someone to say "for christ sake you old spoiled ccunt get over it already!"
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His Majesty
You could put together a better and more honest book
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Rolling HansieQuote
His Majesty
You could put together a better and more honest book
Go ahead. I am looking forward to it
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His Majesty
Can't be bothered!
You're not!