I don't know if this has been posted here yet. Check out the way Keith is holding his guitar. Bill Wyman is plucking bass notes on a six string. Can anyone tell me what kind of guitars Brian and Keith are playing ? The boys look great in this video !!

Brian and Keith are playing guitars that are great for miming songs that could be played live. I love seeing early footage but hate miming clips. Wish they could have played live on every show..

And Charlie is missing the drum and hi-hat all the time.

Their instruments were misplaced in transit and the TV studio gave them these props to use instead.
Bill's isn't even a bass.

No guitar straps either!

Brian playing with his thumb. Do the guitars even have strings on them? Bill's ?

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flacnvinyl
Brian and Keith are playing guitars that are great for miming songs that could be played live. I love seeing early footage but hate miming clips. Wish they could have played live on every show..

Do you know why they mimed so much in the early days ?

My theory is that early television technology wasn't developed enough to broadcast/record amplified music effectively.

Anyone know ?

They played live all the time in the early years. Ed Sullivan and Mike Douglas Show.

It's just easier to mime . .

They played the early US shows live but the UK shows went from mimed to live and back to mimed, so it's really not that clearcut.

The explanation I've read for the decision to start miming US TV was indeed the fact that it gave them better control over the sound.
(Listen to what the Ed Sullivan sound people did with the fuzz guitar on Satisfaction -
no wonder they preferred to mime on subsequent appearances.)

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with sssoul
They played the early US shows live but the UK shows went from mimed to live and back to mimed, so it's really not that clearcut.

The explanation I've read for the decision to start miming US TV was indeed the fact that it gave them better control over the sound.
(Listen to what the Ed Sullivan sound people did with the fuzz guitar on Satisfaction -
no wonder they preferred to mime on subsequent appearances.)

My favorite tvshow is the Ready Steady Go one where they play Oh Baby, That's How Strong My Love Is and Satisfaction. Although the sound is rough and Keith has to tune up between songs, it's energy is unbeatable! Anyone knows where the horns come from in That's How Strong My Love Is? They must have been there too, on stage...or near the stage...

Incredible footage. Must be their 1st French TV appearance.

This video is a little unusual in that in almost all of their early tv appearances they would have either the band playing live, or Jagger singing live over a tape. This is just a rather bogus mime over , with him just mouthing the words.

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mitchmitchell
They played live all the time in the early years. Ed Sullivan and Mike Douglas Show.

It's just easier to mime . .

Weren't some of those Ed Sullivan appearances mimed? I haven't watched the Ed Sullivan DVDs since I first got them when they came out, but it seems like some of those were definitely mimed. Or so I thought when I was watching. Not all of them mind you, but some it looked like at the very least Mick was singing along live to the studio track of the song.

I don't think Ed Sullivan ever let the Stones mime a song. He allowed Jagger to sing over a tape though.

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mitchmitchell
I don't think Ed Sullivan ever let the Stones mime a song. He allowed Jagger to sing over a tape though.

Miming instruments is still miming. It's karaoke, not a Stones performance. To me at least. I care about the musical performance more than the vocals.

My guess is the Stones figure, if you want to hear us play live, come to a concert. The purpose of the TV appearances was to sell records.

..first appearence on french tv...

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mitchmitchell
My guess is the Stones figure, if you want to hear us play live, come to a concert. The purpose of the TV appearances was to sell records.

The purpose of touring is also, or at least was, to sell records. I've never really tried to rationalize it, other than just saying "times were different".

All The Stones Sullivan shows were live up until 1966. Then it was live vocals over backing tape (sometimes the backing tapes were mixed and/or shortened especially for the show) The 1969 appearance seems to have had the least effort put into it..you can clearly hear Jagger's recorded turned down vocals echo behind the live ones (plus the the edit in "Love In Vain' is so bad it sounds like I did it!) At least thats how it was explained to me.

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scottkeef
All The Stones Sullivan shows were live up until 1966.

Right, but slight fine-tuning: Their first 1966 Sullivan appearance was a fully-fledged performance;
the second 1966 Sullivan appearance was the first of the real vocal performances over taped instruments.

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Edith Grove

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flacnvinyl
Brian and Keith are playing guitars that are great for miming songs that could be played live. I love seeing early footage but hate miming clips. Wish they could have played live on every show..

Do you know why they mimed so much in the early days ?

My theory is that early television technology wasn't developed enough to broadcast/record amplified music effectively.

Anyone know ?

The issue was rehearsal time. Mick Jagger was interviewed about the miming issue in the mid-60s, asked whether audiences minded the fact that they were miming to their studio records--there's actual video of that interview somewhere--and he explains that production crews for most TV shows found it easier to work through a mimed performance, because a mimed performance would take only 2 hours to rehearse through, whereas a live performance would take 2 days.

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with sssoul

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scottkeef
All The Stones Sullivan shows were live up until 1966.

Right, but slight fine-tuning: Their first 1966 Sullivan appearance was a fully-fledged performance;
the second 1966 Sullivan appearance was the first of the real vocal performances over taped instruments.

yes, I remember now! the first 1966 show was in Feb and I think because I associate the songs with 1965 so much is what was on my mind ;-)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-20 04:18 by scottkeef.

It also seems likely that it must have made TV engineers' jobs easier to have a band miming over a recorded track of known length, especially for shows like Top Of The Pops which had to fit a lot of such performances into a half-hour slot.

Did anybody here ever make it into a TV studio for a mimed performance (either the Stones or anyone else?) What did a performance like that sound like at close range? The recently posted clip from "Shivaree" for instance, where the audience are sitting right next to the band as they mime away busily.

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stonehearted

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Edith Grove

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flacnvinyl
Brian and Keith are playing guitars that are great for miming songs that could be played live. I love seeing early footage but hate miming clips. Wish they could have played live on every show..

Do you know why they mimed so much in the early days ?

My theory is that early television technology wasn't developed enough to broadcast/record amplified music effectively.

Anyone know ?

The issue was rehearsal time. Mick Jagger was interviewed about the miming issue in the mid-60s, asked whether audiences minded the fact that they were miming to their studio records--there's actual video of that interview somewhere--and he explains that production crews for most TV shows found it easier to work through a mimed performance, because a mimed performance would take only 2 hours to rehearse through, whereas a live performance would take 2 days.

Let me say that it was done for the Stones' convenience not the production crews. Plus as their music became more complex and over-dubbed instrumentals it would be more difficult to re-create the songs without bringing in a piano player or more musicians. You cant always get what you want.

They were demo-ing the songs for the record-buying audience, not for future generations who wanted to hear different live versions.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-20 16:01 by mitchmitchell.

"Mick Jagger was interviewed about the miming issue in the mid-60s, asked whether audiences minded the fact that they were miming to their studio records--there's actual video of that interview somewhere."

I've seen that interview. If you look closely, Mick appears to be miming the answers to the questions ...

Check out this video. Is Jagger singing live or is it mimed? And why is Keith's guitar plugged into an amp when it seems like a taped instrumental?







Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2013-01-20 17:12 by mitchmitchell.

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mitchmitchell
Check out this video. Is Jagger singing live or is it mimed? And why is Keith's guitar plugged into an amp when it seems like a taped instrumental?

Jagger is obviously miming in that clip. The vocal arrangement comes right from the studio track, including the harmonies. Jagger is clearly mouthing out of synch with the words.

In a mimed performance, the drummer always gives it away. Look at Charlie, practically playing air drums. His sticks don't even touch the skins and the high hat does not move. There is no amp visible behind Keith's guitar, just a cord running offstage and out of sight, for effect.

It is also the first and only time they experimented with Charlie Watts playing drums in front of the band, with Jagger and Richards to the side and back. Not sure Watts liked the arrangement and it wasn't used again.

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mitchmitchell
It is also the first and only time they experimented with Charlie Watts playing drums in front of the band, with Jagger and Richards to the side and back. Not sure Watts liked the arrangement and it wasn't used again.

They seem to have done this a few times that year, probably at the behest of television producers. Charlie was also up front on one of the Ed Sullivan shows, the one from May 1965 where they performed The Last Time, Someone To Love, and Little Red Rooster. The Sullivan clip isn't available on YouTube, so below is the clip of Last Time being played on Shindig, also from 1965.