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stones78
The way the Stones & Hendrix developed into rock music is just one of the many ways Rock music went in the 60's, the Beatles developed into rock music in their own way. Where do you draw the line between what's rock and what's not?
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lsbzQuote
stones78
The way the Stones & Hendrix developed into rock music is just one of the many ways Rock music went in the 60's, the Beatles developed into rock music in their own way. Where do you draw the line between what's rock and what's not?
I already wrote that you can't always define it very clearly. You just have to assume that there is a pop stream and a rock stream that overlap for some part. And if you do that, the Stones are more on the rock side and the Beatles are more on the pop side. I don't see what the issue is.
The argument that the Stones or whatever band says they themselves were influenced by the Beatles is not very strong. You are influenced by any important contemporary band of your generation, but that does not mean that they have anything to do with your own musical roots.
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whitem8
Musical roots...well The Stones and The Beatles both worshipped Chuck Berry, loved Little Richard, Bo Diddley, Gene Vincent, and all the great American R and B...seems like they had a hell of a lot in common.
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Green Lady
Never mind the alleged "Stones Beatles Fan Rivalry". What clearly does exist here is a "Rock Pop Rivalry" ...
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lsbz
Just to be clear: if you call the Beatles a pop band, it seems to be perceived as something negative by some. That is not my intention; there have probably been thousands of pop songs that I like.Quote
whitem8
Musical roots...well The Stones and The Beatles both worshipped Chuck Berry, loved Little Richard, Bo Diddley, Gene Vincent, and all the great American R and B...seems like they had a hell of a lot in common.
I doubt that people responding actually read and understood what I wrote. The Beatles probably played *anything* as an entertaining band in Hamburg and fifties rock does not count for much in the sixties and seventies anymore if a band does not develop in the rock direction much.
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lsbz
I doubt that people actually read and understood what I wrote.
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whitem8
I always chuckle when folks fall into the lame stereotyping of bands. Like The Beatles don't rock...that is just utterly ridiculous. They both are incredible bands that set the bar for the rest of the 60's. The rivalry between the two was a big myth perpetuated to sell more albums...as can be seen in countless examples they were good friends. I often feel sorry for folks who can't get into both bands, as they are missing out on great music from both groups.
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lsbz
Just to be clear: if you call the Beatles a pop band, it seems to be perceived as something negative by some. That is not my intention; there have probably been thousands of pop songs that I like.Quote
whitem8
Musical roots...well The Stones and The Beatles both worshipped Chuck Berry, loved Little Richard, Bo Diddley, Gene Vincent, and all the great American R and B...seems like they had a hell of a lot in common.
I doubt that people responding actually read and understood what I wrote. The Beatles probably played *anything* as an entertaining band in Hamburg and fifties rock does not count for much in the sixties and seventies anymore if a band does not develop in the rock direction much.
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Gazza
When you go into a music store to buy an electric guitar, do you ask for a 'rock' one instead of a 'pop' one?
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GazzaQuote
whitem8
I always chuckle when folks fall into the lame stereotyping of bands. Like The Beatles don't rock...that is just utterly ridiculous. They both are incredible bands that set the bar for the rest of the 60's. The rivalry between the two was a big myth perpetuated to sell more albums...as can be seen in countless examples they were good friends. I often feel sorry for folks who can't get into both bands, as they are missing out on great music from both groups.
Yep. Its amazing isnt it. Hundreds of shows in clubs in Hamburg and The Cavern before they ever got near a recording studio, and yet theyre a 'pop' band who never 'got' rock n roll.
Hilarious revisionist know-nothing bollocks.
getting worked up about a 'rivalry' is like something a 10 year old girl may have cared about in 1964. Anyone who still feels threatened or uptight about it in 2010 needs their head examined.
If this is about my post, please acknowledge I said not a whole lot of rockin' and I like/prefer the ballads, but had they continued along the lines of their Hamburg/Cavern days, a performing band with that sound...I would be a bigger fan.
Absolutely no rivalry between them in my mind any more, it is a waste of energy.
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stupidguy2
Excellent posts, Gazza, Whitem and Green Lady...
This snobbery is not only reserved for the hipsters of 1965, but now.
My 17-year old neice told me recently, 'I hate it when people say the Beatles were overrated! How can you argue against that?'
I told her, you can't, its ignorance.arrogance plain and simple.
Pop? Because they wove variations of minor, minor 7 and major chords so seamlessly....? Because they wrote melodies? Macca's all-over-the-place bass work gave their sound a flourish that so much more sophisticated than anything in mainstream music, but it was so good, they were popular because it sounded amazing. They shattered the three-chord progression status and made it explode to where it became the norm, so maybe that's why they seem "overrated" to some..
I loved the early Beatles before I knew what a Mick Jagger was - growing up listening to my older cousins Meet the Beatles, Beatles 65 and A Hard Days Night....it wasn't until after I discovered the Stones that I was blown away by their latter-day work.
As for not rocking: I have always believed the pre-Invasion Beatles rocked harder than the early Stones...they were tighter, and those guitars had a much fuller sound, and a more balanced rhythmic dynamic.
The Stones became my obsession and my band....but the Beatles just are. You cannot compare them to anything, they exist on a different plane. If you don't get it, that's a loss. When I list my favorite bands, its the Stones first, and its an 'any given day' type of thing...It's like the Bible - you have your favorite book, but then there's the Bible, or Koran or whatver - it just is.
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stupidguy2
You cannot compare them to anything, they exist on a different plane. If you don't get it, that's a loss. When I list my favorite bands, its the Stones first, and its an 'any given day' type of thing...It's like the Bible - you have your favorite book, but then there's the Bible, or Koran or whatver - it just is.
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lsbz
Right; the Beatles are perceived as a holy religion by their followers. Arguments don't count; you have to "get it" or you're stupid. Also reminds me of fascism somehow. Cultural fascism.
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stupidguy2
You cannot compare them to anything, they exist on a different plane. If you don't get it, that's a loss. When I list my favorite bands, its the Stones first, and its an 'any given day' type of thing...It's like the Bible - you have your favorite book, but then there's the Bible, or Koran or whatver - it just is.
Right; the Beatles are perceived as a holy religion by their followers. Arguments don't count; you have to "get it" or you're stupid. Also reminds me of fascism somehow. Cultural fascism.
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stupidguy2
Name me at least ten Beatles songs and tell me why you don't think they're worthy of their status.
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stupidguy2
Name me at least ten Beatles songs and tell me why you don't think they're worthy of their status.
In another thread I wrote that I think that the Beatles were reasonably good songwriters, so the debate is not really about that. This seems to be more about pop versus rock. But I like pop as well as rock, so the issue would seem rather futile; only the Beatles fans make it a point that they were rock.
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lsbz
In another thread I wrote that I think that the Beatles were reasonably good songwriters, so the debate is not really about that. This seems to be more about pop versus rock. But I like pop as well as rock, so the issue would seem rather futile; only the Beatles fans make it a point that they were rock.
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stupidguy2
But you still haven't given me ten songs yet...
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stupidguy2
But you still haven't given me ten songs yet...
..'one of the few Beatles albums that I actually own, quote]
Then there you go. I know people who only know the Stones' Satisfaction and Honky Tonk Woman......and they just don't get it.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-12-16 00:19 by stupidguy2.