Thanks for all the stories - I guessed there must be a few People Who Know About These Things on here. I love listening to outtakes - those mammoths and sabre-tooth tigers that didn't quite survive in the evolution of the released songs but are still often magnificent animals in their own right. Thanks to all those who passed them on ( and I'm still hoping for a few more... )

On the Voodoo sessions didnt Don Was order the tape to run no matter what was happening? I know it really doesnt mean much but one of the most interesting comments on the Voodoo Brew box is at the beginning of Disc 1 where Jagger makes reference to "Oh, a Box sets worth"!!

it's been so long since i read tony sanchez's book, but doesn't he say that either he or keith gave a dentist some bootlegs in exchange for drugs back in the 70s?

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Come On
Out-takes CDs is mostly 'Scheisse' but Dylans Oh Mercy-outtages named Mercy on us is very very good. I'm looking for outtakes around my fav.records 'Tonights the Night' with Neil Young or 'Astral Weeks' by Van Morrison. Anybody have them?

There's an alternate version of 'Tonights the Night' which comes from an acetate. Its pretty much the same as the released version, but with a different running order and a few songs added :

It includes "Walk On", "For The Turnstiles" (same versions that are on 'On The Beach'), "Bad Fog of Loneliness", "Traces" and "Winterlong" (same version that's on 'Decade', I think).

Jagger was furious about the VL stuff so ive heard and read

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melillo
Jagger was furious about the VL stuff so ive heard and read

Because of crap like New Faces, Sweethearts Together, Blinded By Rainbows, You Got Me Rocking and Thru And Thru instead of the much better You Got It Made, It's Funny, Make It Now and Hold On You obviously.

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skipstone

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melillo
Jagger was furious about the VL stuff so ive heard and read

Because of crap like New Faces, Sweethearts Together, Blinded By Rainbows, You Got Me Rocking and Thru And Thru instead of the much better You Got It Made, It's Funny, Make It Now and Hold On You obviously.

That's one of the joys of outtakes (as far as we are concerned, having fun second-guessing the band's judgement about what to release) and the reason why Mick loves them like secretive governments love Wikileaks.

One way that out-takes get out that does not seem to have been mentioned so far is through auctions, like the Sotheby's Reel.

There's an alternate version of 'Tonights the Night' which comes from an acetate. Its pretty much the same as the released version, but with a different running order and a few songs added :

It includes "Walk On", "For The Turnstiles" (same versions that are on 'On The Beach'), "Bad Fog of Loneliness", "Traces" and "Winterlong" (same version that's on 'Decade', I think).


Thanks Gazza. I will tell my lokal CD-dealer so he can get me that one..

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melillo
Jagger was furious about the VL stuff so ive heard and read

Because of crap like New Faces, Sweethearts Together, Blinded By Rainbows, You Got Me Rocking and Thru And Thru instead of the much better You Got It Made, It's Funny, Make It Now and Hold On You obviously.

You have a point Skip. When I got The Vigotone boxes I couldn't help but think : "they're losing it, or what? Discarding great material and putting on the cd crap songs. Can't they see they made the wrong choices?"

[EDIT : to me crap songs are New Faces, Sweethearts Together, Blinded By Rainbows, NOT You Got Me Rocking and Thru And Thru which I love]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-12-15 15:19 by dcba.

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melillo
Jagger was furious about the VL stuff so ive heard and read

Because of crap like New Faces, Sweethearts Together, Blinded By Rainbows, You Got Me Rocking and Thru And Thru instead of the much better You Got It Made, It's Funny, Make It Now and Hold On You obviously.

You have a point Skip. When I got The Vigotone boxes I couldn't help but think : "they're losing it, or what? Discarding great material and putting on the cd crap songs. Can't they see they made the wrong choices?"

But thats the main problem with this "greatest R&R band in the world" tag and all these ultra-hype mega record deals, biggest grossing tours etc. - they release and play stuff to meet expectations and dont do things where their heart is. When stadium rockers like "You Got Me Rocking" are required, they deliver. When I first heard that song, I thought: "Wow, instantly likable". After a few listens I thought: "Instantly likable, but also instantly forgettable".

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melillo
Jagger was furious about the VL stuff so ive heard and read

Because of crap like New Faces, Sweethearts Together, Blinded By Rainbows, You Got Me Rocking and Thru And Thru instead of the much better You Got It Made, It's Funny, Make It Now and Hold On You obviously.

Thru And Thru crap? Funny, I used to think that too and then I heard the longer, trippy outtake version and it just sent tingles down my spine. It was like listening to the soundtrack of a spooked out murder mystery. It's now one of my fave songs on that album. Listen to it in the wee small hours with your poison of choice to accompany it i.e. in the spirit of how it was recorded.

Here's a story from the horse's mouth about how it was written.

I was pissed out of my brain (when I wrote that)! (laughs) This is the weirdest thing, the circumstances. We were in Barbados early last year, writing songs, Mick and I. Charlie was there, and also Pierre de Beauport, my guitar man, who's also on Thru and Thru - he's the guitar at the end. And we'd been out to a club in Bridgetown. Tropical night. We had a night off, you know. And we get back to Eddy Grant's studio, which is where we were living and working, at 5 in the morning and get out of the car. And I start staggering in, and suddenly I turn around to Pierre. I said, Switch the stuff on, man. Incoming, incoming. I guess maybe in the car... But I just went into the studio and laid it all down in one take. There it was. I don't know if it was just in the car, but suddenly it came. And that's really, to me, what songwriting is. I have very little do with it, it comes on the wave.

- Keith Richards, June 1994

when dylan songs are leaking, always it´s said that they are better than the released material (Infidels ie. Time out of mind etc.) but I have to say: I like both. The outtakes are far more "interesting" because they aren´t released so they get obscure and as a fan, you search and then you say, wow he should have released this or that...
I think if the songs were releaesed in reverse Outtakes are on the LP and the LP is the outtakes we would say the same abou the released (unreleased stuff) but sure, I want the outtakes of Steel Wheels & Bridges to Babylon they are better than the released songs...

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when dylan songs are leaking, always it´s said that they are better than the released material (Infidels ie. Time out of mind etc.) but I have to say: I like both. The outtakes are far more "interesting" because they aren´t released so they get obscure and as a fan, you search and then you say, wow he should have released this or that...
I think if the songs were releaesed in reverse Outtakes are on the LP and the LP is the outtakes we would say the same abou the released (unreleased stuff) but sure, I want the outtakes of Steel Wheels & Bridges to Babylon they are better than the released songs...

On certain occasions I prefer the outtakes over the released material. I like Some Girls, but the abundance of outtake material from these Pathe Marconi sessions are a wealth of fantastic material, and often a lesson in recording, sounds and song writing. I still think that with the best outtakes a fairly good album much like Tattoo You could be made.

And then Dirty Work: quite an awful album, but there's a dozen of fantastic outtakes like Strictly Memphis available that would have been considered classics by now if they would have finished them.

Mathijs

Dirty Work is probably a unique album in the Stones canon in that the outtakes ended up being better than the record they released (I suppose you could make an argument for Emotional Rescue as well).

I can see the method in their madness for omitting several of those DW outtakes though. Mick's lack of contribution to the record as a songwriter meant that a lot of the songs were Keith/Woody compositions, and most of the better outtakes feature Keith on vocals.

If theyd just simply picked the best 10-12 songs and presented them to CBS (who had just paid them over $30 million and were waiting the first Stones album for their record-breaking investment), the label would have baulked at the prospect of a Rolling Stones album which features Keith Richards singing lead vocals on about half of the songs.

Whilst nothing has emerged from the BTB sessions, a similar scenario seems to present itself for those sessions. Three of the 13 songs that they released on the record feature Keith - something which never happened before or since, and something which, as told in Keith's book, even Jagger had significant issues with. Most of the completed songs that were left off the record feature Keith on vocals as well - in fact he's also quite prominent in the one song ('Anyway you look at it') which came out as a non-album b-side.

Gazza, really good points, especially considering DIRTY WORK. I have always 'known' that Jagger's disinterest was probably the biggest reason for the album's artistic failure but it didn't occur to me what that actually meant, and what you say sounds a natural explanation. He wasn't interest in developing the songs further, giving them a necessary Jagger contribution. Potential good songs were left in the vaults. (Keith once explained the process of making TATTOO YOU - that, as we know, was almost solely in the shoulders of Mick - that Jagger did the part that was his part: finishing the vocals. The rest were not any longer needed.)

In the case of EMOTIONAL RESCUE, I also think that it is the album that had much more potentiality than what was actually realized. My take is that Mick and Keith screwed it up for their ego battle. Seemingly every single decision - selecting a song, mixing it - was matter of fight, and the result was half-assed compromise (but still a good album though but I take that to be the fact that the band was so hot at the time). I think the concept of TATTOO YOU derived from avoiding the bad experiences of making EMOTIONAL RESCUE. Not just that the songs were already mostly recorded - and no need to go to studio to fight from the scratch on - but that it was left mainly to one Glimmer to finish, and - as I have understand - also being involved in the process of mixing them.

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2010-12-15 15:29 by Doxa.

I actually like Thru And Thru, I just don't think it's very good. And considering what they could have put on the album, that is one of several sacrifices to take off the LP. The irony of that track, especially listening to the unedited 11 minutes or however long it is version, is that Keith - OF ALL PEOPLE - plays the synthesizer on it, something he has always despised.

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melillo
Jagger was furious about the VL stuff so ive heard and read

Because of crap like New Faces, Sweethearts Together, Blinded By Rainbows, You Got Me Rocking and Thru And Thru instead of the much better You Got It Made, It's Funny, Make It Now and Hold On You obviously.

That's one of the joys of outtakes (as far as we are concerned, having fun second-guessing the band's judgement about what to release) and the reason why Mick loves them like secretive governments love Wikileaks.

I'd sure love me some wikileaks on the Stones vaults - haha.