The CD era killed the old album format: that of an album consisting of two sides, around 20 minutes long each, and both making an artistic statement of its own - there was a time when we talked about "B-side of TATTOO YOU", "the side without a screaming rocker" in EXILE (Jagger). The art of vinyl was that of giving more role and place to breath for certain key songs. For example, each side has a song to start with and end with, and each of them like controlling the mood of the side, etc. The Stones records in the past much reflected this artistic opportunity, and they made a great effort there. For example, I can't think even think what is to listen EXILE ON MAIN STREET without the four sides, each of them having a life of its own. And what it was like shifting the side of BEGGARS BANQUET, LET IT BLEED or STICKY FINGERS, and having a new adventure to begin with "Street Fighting Man", "Midnight Rambler" and "Bitch"... I guess you old vinyl era people know what I am talking about...

STEEL WHEELS was the last Stones album made a vinyl concept in mind. Starting with VOODOO LOUNGE the Stones albums - all three of them - have been really childs of CD era: endless run of songs, and listening them is like running a marathon - no time to breath, to get a drink, shift the sides, get mentally repaired any new 'beginnings' or highlights. And since there is more room there, the artistic coherence and standard has lowered as the criterion what to release; it is the aesthetic philosophy of the quantity over quality. A BIGGER BANG was like an ideal CD era album: let's just release all we have, the fans - supposedly - are just more pleased.

Okay, now just for a fun, and in the name of nostalgia, let us try to think the CD era albums as single vinyl albums. Let the rule be that only released stuff can be used (so this means single bonus tracks can be used, but not unrelaesed bootleg stuff). Would the albums sound or be more easy to access or to be grasped by 'old' ears like mine? Could the songs work better this way? Some imagination - and good will - is needed here!

I started this 'lost vinyl fantasy' in other thread (Rene's "Mean Disposition"), so I just copypaste my vinyl version of VOODOO LOUNGE here:

Side One
1. You Got Me Rocking
2. Mean Disposition
3. Love Is Strong
4. New Faces
5. Sparks Will Fly
6. The Worst

Side Two
1. I Go Wild
2. The Storm
3. Out of Tears
4. Baby Break It Down
5. Thru and Thru

I did it very quickly, not much thought in it, and some choices I might reconsider now, but that will do for now to get it started. I go for BRIDGES TO BABYLON and A BIGGER BANG soon.

And hey, this is not serious!

(And of course, feel free to change my 'rules'...)

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-06 11:56 by Doxa.

VL:

SIDE A:
1. Love Is Strong
2. You Got Me Rocking
3. Sparks Will Fly
4. The Worst
5. New Faces

SIDE B:

1. Mean Disposition
2. Moon Is Up
3. Out Of Tears
4. Baby, Break It Down
5. Thru And Thru

B2B:

SIDE A:

1. Flip The Switch
2. Anybody Seen My Baby
3. LowDown
4. Already Over Me
5. You Don't Have To Mean It

SIDE B:
1. Out Of Control
2. Saint Of Me
3. Thief In The Night
4. How Can I Stop

ABB:

SIDE A:

1. Rough Justice
2. Let Me Down Slow
3. Rain Fall Down
4. Back Of My Hand
5. She Saw Me Coming

SIDE B:

1. Oh No, Not You Again
2. Biggest Mistake
3. This Place Is Empty
4. Dangerous Beauty
5. Laugh, I Nearly Died

Quote
DandelionPowderman
SIDE B:
1. Out Of Control
2. Saint Of Me
3. Thief In The Night
4. How Can I Stop

Damn, this is actually one of the best albums sides they ever have had - in the level of b-side of TATTOO YOU at least!

- Doxa

No "Too Tight" on BTB, Dandelion ?


I'll do Voodoo Lounge and ABB only

Voodoo Lounge :

SIDE A:
1. So Young
2. Moon Is Up
3. Love Is Strong
4. Sweethearts Together

SIDE B:
1. Mean Disposition
2. The Storm
3. Jump On Top Of Me
4. Baby, Break It Down


ABB

SIDE A:
1. Under The Radar

SIDE B:
1. She Saw Me Coming



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-06 12:10 by Erik_Snow.

I need to add here that the motivation behind this 'thought experiment' is - thanks to Rene - the discovery of "Mean Disposition"(and not just rediscovery but that of actual discovery in the first place!): for me that little jam gem actually was lost in the tiresome format of VOODOO LOUNGE CD. I think it is typical for CD era that individual songs lost their appeal or identity easily - if they really are not some true gems standing out in any place.

- Doxa

Quote
Erik_Snow
No "Too Tight" on BTB, Dandelion ?


I'll do Voodoo Lounge and ABB only

Voodoo Lounge :

SIDE A:
1. Love Is Strong
2. Moon Is Up
3. So Young
4. Sweethearts Together

SIDE B:
1. Mean Disposition
2. The Storm
3. Jump On Top Of Me
4. Baby, Break It Down


ABB

SIDE A:
1. Under The Radar

SIDE B:
1. She Saw Me Coming

I can't listen to Too Tight. It's a rip off of a band I don't like - Live. Don't remember the song, though. And in general, I can't stand the song

ABB

Side 1
- Oh No Not You Again
- She Saw me Coming
- Rain Fell Down
- Back Of My Hand
- Under The Radar

Side 2
- Let Me Down Slow
- Look What The Cat Dragged In
- Laugh I Nearly Died
- Rough Justice


B2B
Side1
- Anybody Seen My Baby
- Flip the Switch
- Saint Of Me
- How Can I Stop

Side2
- Might Aw Well Get Juiced
- Already Over me
- Lowdown
- Out Of Control

Quote
DandelionPowderman
I can't listen to Too Tight. It's a rip off of a band I don't like - Live. Don't remember the song, though. And in general, I can't stand the song

Luckily I haven't heard that track by Live; which is a band I also dislike.
But I really like Too Tight, though, great RS pop-rocker. Together with Mean Disposition, it's one of the few "recent" RS tracks that swings

Quote
Erik_Snow
No "Too Tight" on BTB, Dandelion ?


I'll do Voodoo Lounge and ABB only

Voodoo Lounge :

SIDE A:
1. So Young
2. Moon Is Up
3. Love Is Strong
4. Sweethearts Together

SIDE B:
1. Mean Disposition
2. The Storm
3. Jump On Top Of Me
4. Baby, Break It Down


ABB

SIDE A:
1. Under The Radar

SIDE B:
1. She Saw Me Coming

You're naughty aren't you Erik? ><

Seriously now this is a great thread as I often thought the band's last albums werre marred by the unnecessary inclusion of too many songs (thank CD format for that).
Trimmed versions of said albums work far better on the listener. In the case of ABB alas there's so much trimming to be done that one might end with an EP.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-06 12:16 by dcba.

Okay, I try to do BRIDGES TO BABYLON next.. (which easily is the easiest one, since the material is clearly best)

Let me point out now that I really don't think like just taking the songs I somehow like 'in' and leaving the turds aside, but I try to think the over-all impression, and for that some throaway songs needs to included. (There is a gun in my forehead...)

Side One
1. Flip The Switch
2. Low Down
3. Anybody Seen My Love?
4. You Don't Have To Mean It
5. Saint of Me

Side Two
1. Out of Control
2. Already Over Me
3. Too Tight
4. How Can I Stop

A point: I leave an ambitious "Thief in The Night" out since three Richards numbers are way too much. And I need to have a terrible filler "Already Over Me" because there is not better song, and it needs that type of song to work... Damn, there is a room for a Jagger ballad gem, but unfortunately we don't have that..

- Doxa

I like this thread, because it sheds a new light on the beauty of things, when taken
out of context. Here's my take on Voodoo Lounge

Side A
Love Is Strong
You Got Me Rocking
Moon Is Up
Suck on the Jugular
Sweethearts Together

Side B
I Go Wild
Mean Disposition
Brand New Car
New Faces
Thru and Thru

Just as long as the guitar plays, let it steal your heart away

Quote
Doxa
Okay, I try to do BRIDGES TO BABYLON next.. (which easily is the easiest one, since the material is clearly best)

Let me point out now that I really don't think like just taking the songs I somehow like 'in' and leaving the turds aside, but I try to think the over-all impression, and for that some throaway songs needs to included. (There is a gun in my forehead...)

Side One
1. Flip The Switch
2. Low Down
3. Anybody Seen My Love?
4. You Don't Have To Mean It
5. Saint of Me

Side Two
1. Out of Control
2. Already Over Me
3. Too Tight
4. How Can I Stop

A point: I leave an ambitious "Thief in The Night" out since three Richards numbers are way too much. And I need to have a terrible filler "Already Over Me" because there is not better song, and it needs that type of song to work... Damn, there is a room for a Jagger ballad gem, but unfortunately we don't have that..

- Doxa

You butchered what you just described as "one of the best albums sides they ever have had" - shame, shame, shame ><



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-06 12:53 by DandelionPowderman.

Okay, then the hardest one... A BIGGER BANG

I agree with dcba's observation, but in this case one needs to follow the 'quantity over quality' principle to get something substantive out of it...


Side one
1. Rough Justice
2. Oh No Not You Again
3. It Won't Take Long
4. Back Of My Hand
5. Dangerous Beauty
6. Let Me Go Down Slow

Side two
1. Laugh I Nearly Died
2. Biggest Mistake
3. Rain Fell Down
4. Streets of Love
5. This Place Is Empty

A note: as one can see, to make the album at least somehow interesting, I followed briefly TATTOO YOU concept here of two radically different sides: the first offering more than enough typical Stones rockers, while the second a bit more untypical and slower stuff...

Damn, the material is easily weakest compared to both VOODOO LOUNGE and BRIDGES TO BABYLON... by this 'tactics' the difference in quality is so clearly to be seen - there simply aren't highlights, but damn mediocre stuff straight from the beginning to the the very end!

Taken that, actually I am rather proud of my achievement...

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-06 13:22 by Doxa.

Quote
DandelionPowderman
You butchered what you just described as "one of the best albums sides they ever have had" - shame, shame, shame ><

Hey, I tried to be original!

- Doxa

<Let Me Go Down Slow>

That is THE best song title ever! Imagine Mick singing that

Quote
DandelionPowderman
<Let Me Go Down Slow>

That is THE best song title ever! Imagine Mick singing that

You got me... to even remeber the songs, not even their titles, or how to spell them right, is not my forte here!

- Doxa

Nice idea.

Back in the day, the Album/LP packaging and the ordering of the sides was a big deal.

Often the full size album, gatefold sleeves, inner sleeves with lyrics, gatefolds with inner pages etc.. were a work of art in themselves.

They fit just right under your arm and you felt like you had something of value.

We definitely lost something with CDs.

Voodoo a la Tattoo You

A

Rocking
Brand New Car
Jugular
Moon
Baby Break it Down
Mean disposition

B

Tears
Worst
Sweethearts
Rainbows
Throu&Trough

C

Stripped:

Side A:

1. Street Fighting Man
2. Little Baby
3. Wild Horses
4. I'm Free
5. The Spider And The Fly

Side B:

1. Not Fade Away
2. Sweet Virginia
3. Like A Rolling Stone
4. Love In Vain
5. Shine A Light

Some personal lessons so far: I think the material actually aren't so 'bad' as sometimes (at least myself) thinks them to be. The artistic downhill is not so radical, this is to say. I don't think, say, UNDERCOVER or EMOTIONAL RESCUE, not to name DIRTY WORK or STEEL WHEELS, are clearly better, if at all - if we, for example, take the song writing - the very songs - into account.

But there is one difference I think that is important compared to any of those albums: the band has not so much energy for perfection in the studio: to really work their asses off to get the wanted result. Even EMOTIONAL RESCUE, their first album without one a really stellar song, is saved due to 'hot' band and performance (same with UNDERCOVER). Most of songs from VOODOO LOUNGE on sound 'half-baked' (and lacking the true inspiration). But if I'd been the holy rock and roll god with an omnipotent power - any mortal yes-man like Don Was do not count - I would ordered, once having decided the songs to make the final cut, to really rework them, and putting their energy in finishing them, no matter how many new takes or months it would take.

I would claim that teh very concept of CD allowed The Stones to lower their artistic standard. The ideology of 'quantity over quality' allow them to release half-baked stuff, and that 'excuse' also give them a licence to not work individual tracks so hard as they used to do. And the fans were just counting the amount of tracks and being so pleased by any 'extra' song...

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-06 14:01 by Doxa.

Quote
Doxa
Some personal lessons so far: I think the material actually aren't so 'bad' as sometimes (at least myself) thinks them to be. The artistic downhill is not so radical, this is to say. I don't think, say, UNDERCOVER or EMOTIONAL RESCUE, not to name DIRTY WORK or STEEL WHEELS, are clearly better, if at all - if we, for example, take the song writing - the very songs - into account.

But there is one difference I think that is important compared to any of those albums: the band has not so much energy for perfection in the studio: to really work their asses off to get the wanted result. Even EMOTIONAL RESCUE, their first album without one a really stellar song, is saved due to 'hot' band and performance (same with UNDERCOVER). Most of songs from VOODOO LOUNGE on sound 'half-baked' (and lacking the true inspiration). But if I'd been the holy rock and roll god with an omnipotent power - any mortal yes-man like Don Was do not count - I would ordered, once having decided the songs to make the final cut, to really rework them, and putting their energy in finishing them, no matter how many new takes or months it would take.

I would claim that teh very concept of CD allowed The Stones to lower their artistic standard. The ideology of 'quantity over quality' allow them to release half-baked stuff, and that 'excuse' also give them a licence to not work individual tracks so hard as they used to do. And the fans were just counting the amount of tracks and being so pleased by any 'extra' song...

- Doxa

Crime committed!

DOWN IN THE HOLE IS STELLAR

Quote
GravityBoy
Nice idea.

Back in the day, the Album/LP packaging and the ordering of the sides was a big deal.

Often the full size album, gatefold sleeves, inner sleeves with lyrics, gatefolds with inner pages etc.. were a work of art in themselves.

They fit just right under your arm and you felt like you had something of value.

We definitely lost something with CDs.

Good post

CD's are getting bought by the majority but for the vinyl collectors was always a market and new music is again avaible on vinyl. I do buy cd's but some of the albums and albumcovers I just can't resist to buy.

Cheers

Quote
DandelionPowderman

Quote
Doxa
Some personal lessons so far: I think the material actually aren't so 'bad' as sometimes (at least myself) thinks them to be. The artistic downhill is not so radical, this is to say. I don't think, say, UNDERCOVER or EMOTIONAL RESCUE, not to name DIRTY WORK or STEEL WHEELS, are clearly better, if at all - if we, for example, take the song writing - the very songs - into account.

But there is one difference I think that is important compared to any of those albums: the band has not so much energy for perfection in the studio: to really work their asses off to get the wanted result. Even EMOTIONAL RESCUE, their first album without one a really stellar song, is saved due to 'hot' band and performance (same with UNDERCOVER). Most of songs from VOODOO LOUNGE on sound 'half-baked' (and lacking the true inspiration). But if I'd been the holy rock and roll god with an omnipotent power - any mortal yes-man like Don Was do not count - I would ordered, once having decided the songs to make the final cut, to really rework them, and putting their energy in finishing them, no matter how many new takes or months it would take.

I would claim that teh very concept of CD allowed The Stones to lower their artistic standard. The ideology of 'quantity over quality' allow them to release half-baked stuff, and that 'excuse' also give them a licence to not work individual tracks so hard as they used to do. And the fans were just counting the amount of tracks and being so pleased by any 'extra' song...

- Doxa

Crime committed!

DOWN IN THE HOLE IS STELLAR

Only one?>< Well, I guess I should written 'an instant classic' instead... but my point is that for example, comparing the highlights of BRIDGES TO BABYLON to highlights of EMOTIONAL RESCUE or UNDERCOVER, they do not really shame. I don't think, for example, "Emotional Rescue" or "Undercover of The Night" are much or any more remarkable or memorable songs than "Out of Control" or "Saint of Me" (or even "Doom & Gloom"!). Or "All About You" clearly better than "How Can I Stop". But I think in each case the delivery is more vital and original. And of course, the songs itself being more inventive and original (but still that wouldn't make them any 'big songs' in Stones canon; they are not any missyous, beastofburdens or startmeups)

- Doxa

Quote
dcba
Trimmed versions of said albums work far better on the listener. In the case of ABB alas there's so much trimming to be done that one might end with an EP.

True, allthough I think ABB should be a 7"

Here's my Bridges To Babylon. Had to give it some more thought first
Great little EP

SIDE 1:
1. Anybody Seen My Baby
2. Too Tight

SIDE 2:
1. Thief In The Night
2. How Can I Stop

Quote
runaway
CD's are getting bought by the majority but for the vinyl collectors was always a market and new music is again avaible on vinyl.
Cheers

This is a good thing but personally I have refused to turn the clock back in time, since I once gave up buying vinyls and 'accepted' the new order (and I guess the CD format is a thing of the past sooner or later, if it is not already in some potential markets...). It was hard a decision but I felt like a Don Quixote back then...

I haven't really checked the new vinyl market, but what I've seen the albums are not any more done in that format in mind; they are more like 'okay, let's release a vinyl version as well'. To my eyes the idea of a side having just three songs or something - and we are not talking about Pink Floyd here! - even though being sonically a good choice, it is not that any longer artisticwise such a thing it used to be. I miss the bigger artistic 'story' or 'statement' there...

I think The Stones are the worst in this sense - always going for after new 'innovation' and using all the 'advantages' (good or bad) it has. The vinyl versions of their albums are just 'let's but the CD material into vinyl, and that's it'. Of the other names I am familar with I think Bob Dylan is still the dinosaur who thinks his albums in terms of vinyls. His records are still short enough, and each song like having a thought place in the whole, and I think they can be very easily divided into two sides. Dylan's recent albums - one reason I think why they are rightly praised - is that they are good artistic packages in their wholeness. Some stellar songs and some justified 'fillers'. They 'breath' well.

The advantage of being short enough - ten to twelve songs or something - is that of leaving the desire of wanting some more... with an album like VOODOO LOUNGE or A BIGGER BANG one needs to be a really huge fan of that stuff, in order to think 'yeah, can't get enough; I immedeatily need more of this stuff!"... I mean, it is not EXILE ON MAIN STREET we talk here...

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-06 15:22 by Doxa.

Mmmmmh...good idea, this thread, but all in all, I think these albums can't be saved by "cutting" them into vinyl format. That's because the problem is only partly the material itself, it's also the material they left out because they used it for b-sides or for solo adventures.

There is not much "extra" material for BTB, obviously, only "Anyway You Like At It", and outtakes from this album did not surface until now.

But "Vodoo Lounge" could have been a totally different animal if Mick and Keith would not have saved their best songs at the time for Main Offender and Wandering Spirit.

Even A Bigger Bang could have been lifted to whatever degree one might agree on by including "Blue", "Old Habits Die Hard" (in place of "Streets Of Love", as Stones albums simply need at least one ballad) and "Under The Radar". Of course, there's a load of trash that needs to be thrown out at the same time, but even ABB could have been a (much?) better album by icluding the tracks above and a reduction to a single album's worth of material - in vinyl terms.

But it's time to realize once again that the last "classic" Stones album was released 30 years ago - Tattoo You, and even that was a collection of (reworked) '70s outtakes. The story of the Stones as a creative force ended with "Some Girls". Consequently, these two albums also generated their last two "classic" hits - "Miss You" and "Start Me Up".

Everything after that, albums and singles, were afterthoughts. Not exactly done out of a creative need, but purely functional - fulfilling a contract, justifying a tour. And it shows.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-06 15:19 by alimente.

Bigger Bang The Double Vinyl-album:

Record One:
A-side:
1/ Streets of Love (WOW What a opener!!!!)
2/ Rain fall down
3/ This Place is Empty
4/ Sweet Neo Con
5/ Look what the cat dragged in
B-side:
1/ Rough Justice (Wow what a opener again!!!)
2/ Biggest mistake
3/ Back of my hand
4/ Driving too fast
5/ She saw me coming
Record Two:
A-side:
1/ Oh No, not you again
2/ It won't take long
3/ Dangerous Beauty
4/ infamy
5/ Let me down slow
6/ Laugh I nearly died
B-side:

BLANK just as on 'Second Winter'



2 1 2 0

Quote
Come On
Bigger Bang The Double Vinyl-album:

Record One:
A-side:
1/ Streets of Love (WOW What a opener!!!!)
2/ Rain fall down
3/ This Place is Empty
4/ Sweet Neo Con
5/ Look what the cat dragged in
B-side:
1/ Rough Justice (Wow what a opener again!!!)
2/ Biggest mistake
3/ Back of my hand
4/ Driving too fast
5/ She saw me coming
Record Two:
A-side:
1/ Oh No, not you again
2/ It won't take long
3/ Dangerous Beauty
4/ infamy
5/ Let me down slow
6/ Laugh I nearly died
B-side:

BLANK just as on 'Second Winter'

Nice twist: The quiet A-side

Quote
Doxa
STEEL WHEELS was the last Stones album made a vinyl concept in mind. Starting with VOODOO LOUNGE the Stones albums - all three of them - have been really childs of CD era: endless run of songs, and listening them is like running a marathon - no time to breath, to get a drink, shift the sides, get mentally repaired any new 'beginnings' or highlights. Doxa

Most CD players let you set it up in any order you want. Also CD players have pause buttons. I've heard complaints about their sound vs. vinyl but for what you are talking about, CD's got vinyl licked in that area.

Quote
Doxa
I need to add here that the motivation behind this 'thought experiment' is - thanks to Rene - the discovery of "Mean Disposition"(and not just rediscovery but that of actual discovery in the first place!): for me that little jam gem actually was lost in the tiresome format of VOODOO LOUNGE CD. Doxa

Lost for 18years? That's too bad, but oh well no CD, no Mean Disposition.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2012-11-06 16:56 by nick.

PLEASE don't leave "Infamy" out of the abridged versions of ABB!

It's imho one of the best and grooviest tunes since 1981