All this speculation has jumped to supposition and since morphed into psychobabble.Self anointed shrinks take note you ditched impartiality and objectivity so this ain't journalism thats for sure. So what, Keith called him a prick. No problem.....it's how he felt back then and he is saying it now. With journalism no where in sight , next up will be that Keith was there, sneaked in, pulled the trigger......

MK--it was an opinion piece from the git-go - not a straight journalistic news piece - and like it or not, opinion pieces tend to generate more opinions -

"So what, Keith called him a prick. No problem.....it's how he felt back then and he is saying it now."

That's your opinion - you're entitled to it - others here have differing opinions - that okay?

Quote
MKjan
All this speculation has jumped to supposition and since morphed into psychobabble.Self anointed shrinks take note you ditched impartiality and objectivity so this ain't journalism thats for sure. So what, Keith called him a prick. No problem.....it's how he felt back then and he is saying it now. With journalism no where in sight , next up will be that Keith was there, sneaked in, pulled the trigger......

what the heck does journalism (objectivity etc..) have to do with this?
of course it's psychobabble! Sincerely, Mr. Freud (Dr. Freud's brother).

MKjan...do you visit this site thinking you're getting objective journalism?
Do you watch The DailyShow w/Jon Stewart for the same reason.


IORR............but I like it!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-12-02 22:45 by sweet neo con.

No personal knowledge...I was sharing my recollections of the press articles following the event. Perhaps some of them can be accessed online now.

I agree with previous posts against speculation...accusing Anita of murdering both Scott Cantrell and her baby is waaaaay over the top.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-12-02 23:25 by Bliss.

Quote
sweet neo con

Quote
MKjan
All this speculation has jumped to supposition and since morphed into psychobabble.Self anointed shrinks take note you ditched impartiality and objectivity so this ain't journalism thats for sure. So what, Keith called him a prick. No problem.....it's how he felt back then and he is saying it now. With journalism no where in sight , next up will be that Keith was there, sneaked in, pulled the trigger......

what the heck does journalism (objectivity etc..) have to do with this?
of course it's psychobabble! Sincerely, Mr. Freud (Dr. Freud's brother).

MKjan...do you visit this site thinking you're getting objective journalism?
Do you watch The DailyShow w/Jon Stewart for the same reason.

Just wanted to hear you say there is no objectivity, thanks. And yes to hbwriter, differing opinions are fine indeed... I voiced mine.
and I watched The Daily Show a couple times, and I think it is as crap filled as Fox News is. They both suck, neither is journalism.

Quote
MKjan
All this speculation has jumped to supposition and since morphed into psychobabble.Self anointed shrinks take note you ditched impartiality and objectivity so this ain't journalism thats for sure.

Well, this thread certainly beats the numerous Keith Is God threads on this site.

Quote
neptune

Quote
MKjan
All this speculation has jumped to supposition and since morphed into psychobabble.Self anointed shrinks take note you ditched impartiality and objectivity so this ain't journalism thats for sure.

Well, this thread certainly beats the numerous Keith Is God threads on this site.

Not really. Their are more Taylor is God threads than Keith is God and while yes this all just speculation. Some of it is bordeline outrageous accusations.

Quote
sweet neo con
MKjan...do you visit this site thinking you're getting objective journalism?
Do you watch The DailyShow w/Jon Stewart for the same reason.

And I suppose that's why you watch Fox News

The Daily Show is political satire. Fox News is manipulation of the truth, along with outright lying, disguised as news, to push the ignorant, right-wing christian agenda.

This indeed is a dark chapter in Stones history, with a family suffering through such a tragedy. Yes, Scott Cantrell was perhaps a troubled youth, but he didn't deserve to die. And Anita beating the rap so easily leaves me feeling a bit angry. This is eerily similar to Brian's death, one determined to be suicide and the other 'death by misadventure', mysteries which have persistently led to speculation of murder (involving 'minders' in the Stones' payroll). And the way Keith speaks of both the dead Scott Cantrell and Brian is just so distasteful. I find it odd, especially coming from a 66 year-old man who's led such a charmed life. What makes a man world famous and rich since he was 19 speak so viciously ill of the dead?

Quote
neptune
This indeed is a dark chapter in Stones history, with a family suffering through such a tragedy. Yes, Scott Cantrell was perhaps a troubled youth, but he didn't deserve to die. And Anita beating the rap so easily leaves me feeling a bit angry. This is eerily similar to Brian's death, one determined to be suicide and the other 'death by misadventure', mysteries which have persistently led to speculation of murder (involving 'minders' in the Stones' payroll). And the way Keith speaks of both the dead Scott Cantrell and Brian is just so distasteful. I find it odd, especially coming from a 66 year-old man who's led such a charmed life. What makes a man world famous and rich since he was 19 speak so viciously ill of the dead?

honesty.

"...What makes a man world famous and rich since he was 19 speak so viciously ill of the dead?"

honesty.

---

or a desire to embellish a faux-tough guy image that helps build the brand

it all depends on one's opinion.

if anyone had ever told me a Keith Richard autobio would actually lose him fans, I would not have believed it. Now, I don't count myself in that group - far from it- to me it's just an inexplicably ugly moment/attitude but I've said my bit and now you move on. (goats head plays as i type this) But I know a few people - die hards -that actually do not care for him after this book - they look at him like he's a different guy - one woman wrote me - "I feel cheated - he's a scumbag- this guy I've defended against all the jokes for 30 years - I wouldn't let him in my house." While that's a little melodramatic for my taste, the mail generated from this article via AOL has produced a number of these similar reactions - not because of Scott Cantrell per se - but the sum total of the book.

I've read the posts on this board that are fairly shocking, to me anyway - I figured most would either love the book or like the book - but not lose respect for the guy that wrote the book. To Keith's credit I'd suppose - he wrote a book that's polarizing - which is better than a book that's dull - even if he's embellishing things to support the tough-guy narrative

(OT - does ANYONE believe the Muddy Waters painting story? I was amazed he left that in. That whole premise of tossing Phil Chess under the bus like that, implying that it was like a plantation there - it's been debunked so many times i wonder how a fact checker would even let it survive a first edit)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-12-03 02:19 by hbwriter.

Quote
MKjan

Quote
neptune
What makes a man world famous and rich since he was 19 speak so viciously ill of the dead?

honesty.

Honesty? I think it's cowardice. Instead of admitting responsibility for being an absentee father and carrying weapons (which led to the death of a minor in his own home), Keith instead calls the said minor a 'prick'. That's just nothing more than deflecting responsibility away from himself and kicking more dirt in the direction of a dead teenager and his family. Way to go Keith!

Quote
hbwriter

If I could ask Keith something- given how much praise he gives Gram - after Gram got booted from Nellcote and the Stones returned to LA for 4-5 months of exile work at sunset sound - why did they not speak once?

To the contrary - in Keith's book he mentions hanging with Gram in LA and taking rides on his motorcycle to score low grade street heroin and getting so hooked he had to go to Switzerland to take a cure...Keith mentions of photo that shows him on the back of Grams bike - but I've never seen it.

Keith mentions of photo that shows him on the back of Grams bike - but I've never seen it.

Without checking pretty sure that Keith/Gram on bike shot is in Gram DVD - Fallen Angel



ROCKMAN

Did the Cantrell incident make it onto the Audio Reading of the book with Johnny Depp?


IORR............but I like it!

Anchorman, youi are right on the gram-sorry about that--here is where I got crossed--i am also reading the recent gram bio--a good book--the author documents very clearly that there was no record of any cotact during those months--not sure who is mistaken

Y

Quote
neptune
This indeed is a dark chapter in Stones history, with a family suffering through such a tragedy. Yes, Scott Cantrell was perhaps a troubled youth, but he didn't deserve to die. And Anita beating the rap so easily leaves me feeling a bit angry. This is eerily similar to Brian's death, one determined to be suicide and the other 'death by misadventure', mysteries which have persistently led to speculation of murder (involving 'minders' in the Stones' payroll). And the way Keith speaks of both the dead Scott Cantrell and Brian is just so distasteful. I find it odd, especially coming from a 66 year-old man who's led such a charmed life. What makes a man world famous and rich since he was 19 speak so viciously ill of the dead?

+1

But you know, there have always been reports of Keith's character flaws; the first that springs to mind is Sanchez's detailed book in 1979. Some of it is pretty shocking. Then the fact that neither Keith or Anita went to Brian's funeral, even though they were in England. Another is Bill German's account, though he doesn't specifically name Keith as setting him up to receive drugs for the Stone in JAPAN. But balanced against this are interviews with his girls, who insist that their parents are their favourite people in the world, and this account from his sister-in-law: [pierresetparoles.blogspot.com] .

Both sides are equally true.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-12-03 08:16 by Bliss.

Quote
neptune

Quote
MKjan

Quote
neptune
What makes a man world famous and rich since he was 19 speak so viciously ill of the dead?

honesty.

Honesty? I think it's cowardice. Instead of admitting responsibility for being an absentee father and carrying weapons (which led to the death of a minor in his own home), Keith instead calls the said minor a 'prick'. That's just nothing more than deflecting responsibility away from himself and kicking more dirt in the direction of a dead teenager and his family. Way to go Keith!

And another to be judge & jury. You weren't there. You are such a better man that you would have handled this so much better!

Quote
hbwriter
if anyone had ever told me a Keith Richard autobio would actually lose him fans, I would not have believed it. Now, I don't count myself in that group

LOL! You are pretty dramatic. It's not a big deal. You met them. So what? You still have no connection to what happened. Get over it. As much as a prick it might seem that Keith is, he still has many redeeming qualities - he's humble about his success, he constantly gives credit to his heroes (Berry, Diddley, Waters, King, etc.) and helps involve those with projects, which no doubt made these artists more money then they ever got from their lame record deals, his parenting is certainly questionable but he did keep his son with him as much as possible, he did bring his dad along for the voodoo lounge tour proudly showing him around the world, he's always supported Anita even after her huge weight gain, he did unthinkable in giving up his daughter and not taking part at all in raising her but (although not really addressed in the book) he did later repair that relationship and now he sees his daughter all the time.

Since we all want to be judge & jury, I agree, not a great guy, but like I said before, I don't think I expected him to be -- he's still a great legend!

Quote
hbwriter
(OT - does ANYONE believe the Muddy Waters painting story? I was amazed he left that in. That whole premise of tossing Phil Chess under the bus like that, implying that it was like a plantation there - it's been debunked so many times i wonder how a fact checker would even let it survive a first edit)

I think including that particular bullshit story to LIFE speaks volumes of Keith's 'keeping up appearances' personality. Since he has repeated that story for ages, he - a tough man - cannot admit it being bullshit without losing his face. He disqualifies Marshall Chess' testimony , and then - rhetorically fine but total bullocks - claims that Bill Wyman will back up his story! Well, this is what Mr. Wyman actually writes in his ROLLING WITH THE STONES:

"Muddy very definetely was not up a ladder painting the studio, he was a major star at this time and had been for years."

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-12-03 18:21 by Doxa.

"LOL! You are pretty dramatic. It's not a big deal. You met them. So what? You still have no connection to what happened. Get over it"
LeonidP

--Who said I had a connection to what happened? I was merely writing my opinion that I found Keith's attitude in stunningly bad taste - it really caught me off guard - and also, that I think perhaps he's making it up to come off like the new-model tough guy he aspires to be (plus, as you wrote earlier, of course I'm still dealing with the fact that he never invited me into the fold - you know, that vendetta I harbor)

"...As much as a prick it might seem that Keith is, he still has many redeeming qualities - he's humble about his success, he constantly gives credit to his heroes (Berry, Diddley, Waters, King, etc.) and helps involve those with projects, which no doubt made these artists more money then they ever got from their lame record deals, his parenting is certainly questionable but he did keep his son with him as much as possible, he did bring his dad along for the voodoo lounge tour proudly showing him around the world, he's always supported Anita even after her huge weight gain, he did unthinkable in giving up his daughter and not taking part at all in raising her but (although not really addressed in the book) he did later repair that relationship and now he sees his daughter all the time."
LeonidP
--
This is the sort of adult hero-worship stuff I referred to earlier - let's just end the debate if that's cool because we're coming at this from two polar points of view -

DOXA - spot on



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-12-03 18:41 by hbwriter.

a sample from this morning's email:

"If someone was doing my old lady with my kid in the next room, I'd wish the same thing on him. LONG LIVE KEITH"

Quote
LeonidP
[he's always supported Anita even after her huge weight gain

Amazing.

Of all of her behaviors over the years you consider her "huge weight gain" to be the worst of her sins?

I guess you can do whatever you want in this world because as long as you look great, you're gold.

Re: IORR competition - Win signed copies of Keith's book LIFE! Posted by: hbwriter ()
Date: November 25, 2010 08:55


Keith’s made me happy even when at his worst and though I won't be shattered or take it so hard this winter if you don't send it to me, I ain't too proud to beg so before slipping away like a beast of burden, before they make me run, I'm coming down again in search of a connection because everybody needs somebody to love and it’s not just my imagination, IORR is the salt of the earth for our emotional rescue and I don’t say that to sway the judges but to offer on behalf of everyone, “we love you.”



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-11-25 18:21 by hbwriter.


Are you really sure about what you're writing here? It seems very inconsistent... Not at all what you're writing about Keith in this thread. Just asking!

Imagine yourself being a father, and you're worried sick because your son is living with his mom, who keeps BAD COMPANY. Actually The WORST there is. One of the bastards kills himself in the bed he's sharing with your son's mom. Then your son tells you that the bastard threatened to kill you... Would you be OK with that? Would you think abd speak well of the dead? Or would you be honest and say what you really meant?

Quote
hbwriter
a sample from this morning's email:

"If someone was doing my old lady with my kid in the next room, I'd wish the same thing on him. LONG LIVE KEITH"

You put yourself out there like a lightning rod man. What did you expect.It's not hero worship,but the high moral ground your putting yourself on compared to Keith. Put yourself in that position.Someone's doing your old lady with your kid in the next room. You going to write him a thank you note.

Quote
hbwriter
"LOL! You are pretty dramatic. It's not a big deal. You met them. So what? You still have no connection to what happened. Get over it"
LeonidP

--Who said I had a connection to what happened? I was merely writing my opinion that I found Keith's attitude in stunningly bad taste - it really caught me off guard - and also, that I think perhaps he's making it up to come off like the new-model tough guy he aspires to be (plus, as you wrote earlier, of course I'm still dealing with the fact that he never invited me into the fold - you know, that vendetta I harbor)

"...As much as a prick it might seem that Keith is, he still has many redeeming qualities - he's humble about his success, he constantly gives credit to his heroes (Berry, Diddley, Waters, King, etc.) and helps involve those with projects, which no doubt made these artists more money then they ever got from their lame record deals, his parenting is certainly questionable but he did keep his son with him as much as possible, he did bring his dad along for the voodoo lounge tour proudly showing him around the world, he's always supported Anita even after her huge weight gain, he did unthinkable in giving up his daughter and not taking part at all in raising her but (although not really addressed in the book) he did later repair that relationship and now he sees his daughter all the time."
LeonidP
--
This is the sort of adult hero-worship stuff I referred to earlier - let's just end the debate if that's cool because we're coming at this from two polar points of view -

DOXA - spot on

This is way over-dramatic! you are actually stating that this comment lost him fans, including yourself! How about the fact that he was a junkie for 30 years of his life - you were a fan before, and now he calls this kid that you met one time a prick, and this is what causes you to no longer be a fan! Jesus Christ!

Guys, this topic had drifted too much, better to take stock of what you like, and love than to accuse and slander without strong factual basis!

Keith's comments in Life may or may not alarm you, but...

Sweet- I'm not complaining about it - I get weird stuff all the time - but I think this sort of comment is a bit neanderthal and represents a certain ignorant point of view - I just shared it to balance some of the other responses I posted -

that aside -
- for Keith Richards to get upset over his wife having an affair seems woefully hypocritical - so no, i don't think it justifies the brutal way he defined this 17 year old kid -

and if i put myself in the position of a 66 year old man that's referring to a 32 year old incident in which I'd never commented before - no, I like to think I'd grown up a bit and even if it still bothered me, show a little class and consider that maybe his family might read this book - age gracefully as opposed to gracelessly.

Notes like the one above-- take a point of view that poor innocent keith just woke up one day and found his "old lady" shacking up with some kid - yet at this period, Keith had his own girlfriends, he was a full-fledged junkie, all but abandoned his kids, didn't seem to care who else was in the house, and by his own account did not give a f--- about anyone except his dealer. Someone here said Keith should be pissed because this kid brought a gun in the house - IT WAS KEITH'S GUN! So how is it "moral high ground" to be taken aback by the attack on Scott Cantrell?

Is that how low the standards are now set?

Postscript - Someone pointed this out earlier - there's not even any proof they were sleeping together - there are people in the house that fully deny it (including sessler) The kid may have been infatuated with her - (despite reports that she'd become a hag by then - i saw her around town a few times - she was still an attractive woman) In any event - he had only met them in spring before the death in July - so it was hardly some long term thing -

"This is way over-dramatic! you are actually stating that this comment lost him fans, including yourself! How about the fact that he was a junkie for 30 years of his life - you were a fan before, and now he calls this kid that you met one time a prick, and this is what causes you to no longer be a fan! Jesus Christ!"
LeonidP

Dude - you need to learn how to read:

I wrote -
"if anyone had ever told me a Keith Richard autobio would actually lose him fans, I would not have believed it. Now, I don't count myself in that group - far from it- to me it's just an inexplicably ugly moment/attitude but I've said my bit and now you move on."

SEE - I DON'T COUNT MYSELF IN THAT GROUP. I LOVE THE ROLLING STONES NOW AND FOREVER. And the part about other people - I am not making that up - that's what readers have sent to me - I even reposted one with her permission.

ADDICTED- I MEAN EVERY WORD OF MY ENTRY. And I'm also getting frustrated about how my posts are being misinterpreted -

You said: "Imagine yourself being a father, and you're worried sick because your son is living with his mom, who keeps BAD COMPANY."

You seriously think that was Keith Richards' mindset in 1979? Based on what? Making Marlon his drug puppet on the 76 tour?

"One of the bastards kills himself in the bed he's sharing with your son's mom."

He's a "bastard" now? He was the freaking TEENAGED caretaker that she seduced, if they even ever slept together! She was 20 years older than he was! Why not get mad at Anita for allowing it in the first place??

"Then your son tells you that the bastard threatened to kill you... Would you be OK with that? Would you think abd speak well of the dead? Or would you be honest and say what you really meant?"

As I've said - i think this is totally false - if Scott Cantrell made constant death threats around that house full of people - someone else would have been hip to it - and Marlon said it happened all the time - I also think Marlon would have mouthed off about it given how he had been raised (I will add I think it is a miracle that kid survived and thrived) Lastly, I buy Scott Cantrell's sister's version of her brother - it sounds honest and straightforward - so "death threats" seems totally out of character.

Closing point - as I've said - I think the bitter, crass attitude toward Cantrell is a trumped up way of allowing Keith "to be Keith" in a certain reader's eyes - but not mine. I think it is all as made up as the Muddy Waters ladder story - it just serves Keith's purpose.

That said - I will never waiver in my love/support/investment of this band and all they have done to enrich my life - that's why my entry stands as is.

Repeat, I was just so stunned by that passage I felt the need to react/respond--and trust me - given what I feel for this band, it was not an easy thing to do.

I AM DONE

-30-



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2010-12-03 21:45 by hbwriter.

hbwriter, just curious- what did you think of the validity of "Spanish Tony"'s book "Up & Down With The Rolling Stones" (if I have the title right)?
I seem to remember Keith saying that even tho he didnt agree about some things he had the basic facts correct. THAT account would sure make one think that you might not want to put anything past Anita but....

Quote
hbwriter
"This is way over-dramatic! you are actually stating that this comment lost him fans, including yourself! How about the fact that he was a junkie for 30 years of his life - you were a fan before, and now he calls this kid that you met one time a prick, and this is what causes you to no longer be a fan! Jesus Christ!"
LeonidP

Dude - you need to learn how to read:

I wrote -
"if anyone had ever told me a Keith Richard autobio would actually lose him fans, I would not have believed it. Now, I don't count myself in that group - far from it- to me it's just an inexplicably ugly moment/attitude but I've said my bit and now you move on."

... ah, sorry, I suppose I misread the "I don't count myself in that group" part. my statement stands, however, i think this is way too much focus on a minor part of what Keith is about and what is in the book. to me it was a non-issue to begin with.