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Re: Less love for Keith
Posted by: melillo ()
Date: October 31, 2010 00:20

funny how his memory suddenly came back, what happened to the odd gap? but i guess its a good thing to have a keith book, i wont purchase it i will read over a couple of days at borders with a cafe latte

Re: Less love for Keith
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: October 31, 2010 01:01

Quote
gypsy18
I love Keith, but not like I did before the book. He's bought into his own myth, and I thought he was more intelligent than that.
I wanted people who dismissed Keith as an ignorant junkie to finally get to read how witty, intellectual and well-read he truly is. Sadly, this book doesn't demonstrate that. In my opinion, it shows what a spoiled brat he truly is.
He's been very lucky and very fortunate, but doesn't seem to realize it.

How can he NOT know that he never went to prison for any of his drug arrests because of his money and fame?
The flippant remarks about acquaintances who died of a heroin overdose because they were stupid (Gram Parsons) or out of shape (John Belushi) are insensitive. Keith is alive because of sheer luck and not because he was some kind of crazy intelligent SuperJunkie.

The tough guy act gets really old really quick. The blades, the guns, the "I'll kick his ass and he knows it" stuff is childish and immature. I've never heard about him being in any fights where he didn't run off and leave Spanish Tony or some other hanger-on to finish it for him.

Everyone loves Keith because they think he's "real" and "down-to-earth." This book proves that he's pretty much anything but.

Really, really good analysis. I agree 100%.

The biggest problem for me is that I think - or I used to think - that Keith is smarter guy than what this book represents. I dont know. Maybe I've been wrong all the way...

But what bothers me is that for many - for example, to be seen in the reviews of non-Stones fans - the book gives smarter picture of Keith than they thought - Keith's public image is something similar to Ozzy Osbournes in smartwise (analogy to Keith's own 'wisdom': if one gives an idiotic picture of oneself, then one is finally thought to be as idiotic as the image is - the junkie non-coherent drunken pirate model has its consequences).

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-10-31 01:03 by Doxa.

Re: Less love for Keith
Posted by: melillo ()
Date: October 31, 2010 01:23

is the painting the ceiling story in the book?

Re: Less love for Keith
Posted by: NICOS ()
Date: October 31, 2010 01:25

Quote
gypsy18
I love Keith, but not like I did before the book.


Think I skip the whole book

__________________________

Re: Less love for Keith
Posted by: Honestman ()
Date: October 31, 2010 01:29

What did you expected ? A new Nobel Prize in literature ?
It could have been better , if this autobiography has been released in a kind of (very) big interview IMO and not on a monotone kind of writtin' winking smiley
Keith's behaviour is also not new, he felt into his own "Cliché" since about 10 years at least so...

HMN



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-10-31 01:40 by Honestman.

Re: Less love for Keith
Posted by: MartinB ()
Date: October 31, 2010 02:43

What did you expect? A sermon? The book is a great read. Excellent writing, a differnt plane than Woody's. Who cares how much of it is truth? And who knows? You? Certainly not me.

Re: Less love for Keith
Posted by: Honestman ()
Date: October 31, 2010 02:27

Quote
MartinB
...Who cares how much of it is truth? And who knows? You? Certainly not me...
Don't get me wrong winking smiley
My target was the ones who feel offensed with some words about Mick. It seems that people only want to read these headlines quotes. I would like to say go further gals and guys the book worth the readin' (I've really enjoyed the childhood chapter) and I'm agreed no one here could say where the truth really is, a bit here, a bit there, and who cares, one have to make our own opinion that's all.

HMN

Re: Less love for Keith
Posted by: gypsy18 ()
Date: October 31, 2010 04:25

Quote
NICOS
Quote
gypsy18
I love Keith, but not like I did before the book.


Think I skip the whole book

No! Don't do that. I know how much you like Anita, and Keith talks about her throughout the entire book. Keith is obviously still smitten with her and fascinated by her beauty, her intellect, the fact that he could never have her in the way he has Patti as the reliable wife.He says beautiful things about Patti, but they don't compare to what he says about Anita.

Re: Less love for Keith
Posted by: gypsy18 ()
Date: October 31, 2010 04:39

Quote
MartinB
What did you expect? A sermon? The book is a great read. Excellent writing, a differnt plane than Woody's. Who cares how much of it is truth? And who knows? You? Certainly not me.

No, I didn't expect a sermon, but I did expect more. When someone as prolific as Keith Richards writes his autobiography, which is one of the most-anticipated autobiographies in decades, I think it's only natural that people would expect a little more.
I expected to get to know a little bit about Keith as person. I didn't get that. I got a caricature. I've read interviews from the 60's, 70's and 80's that give more insight to Keith than this book did.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-10-31 04:57 by gypsy18.

Re: Less love for Keith
Posted by: Marie ()
Date: October 31, 2010 04:43

Quote
gypsy18
Quote
NICOS
Quote
gypsy18
I love Keith, but not like I did before the book.


Think I skip the whole book

No! Don't do that. I know how much you like Anita, and Keith talks about her throughout the entire book. Keith is obviously still smitten with her and fascinated by her beauty, her intellect, the fact that he could never have her in the way he has Patti as the reliable wife.He says beautiful things about Patti, but they don't compare to what he says about Anita.

Now that's just sad...I think Patti is lovely....Keith was definitely smitten...According to Stanley Booth's book there was a picture of Brian Jones on the dresser in Anita's bedroom that she shared with Keith...Keith was tolerant, I'll give that to him...

Re: Less love for Keith
Posted by: vermontoffender ()
Date: October 31, 2010 04:53

Anyone who knows thing one about autobiographical writing will recognize that this is an excellent book; extremely well written in a consistent, singular voice with wonderful stories and very interesting information concerning songwriting, guitar playing, drugs, women, and the rest of the band amongst many other subjects . If your expectations are getting in the way of recognizing a truly remarkable achievement by Mr. Richards and Mr. Fox, that is unfortunate, but hardly surprising to read on this board.

Congratulations to them both.

Re: Less love for Keith
Posted by: gypsy18 ()
Date: October 31, 2010 05:11

Quote
vermontoffender
Anyone who knows thing one about autobiographical writing will recognize that this is an excellent book; extremely well written in a consistent, singular voice with wonderful stories and very interesting information concerning songwriting, guitar playing, drugs, women, and the rest of the band amongst many other subjects . If your expectations are getting in the way of recognizing a truly remarkable achievement by Mr. Richards and Mr. Fox, that is unfortunate, but hardly surprising to read on this board.

Congratulations to them both.

It's unfortunate that you've underestimated the intelligence of others.
Enjoy the excellent book full of Keith's remarkable achievements.

Re: Less love for Keith
Posted by: swiss ()
Date: October 31, 2010 05:47

Quote
gypsy18
Quote
MartinB
What did you expect? A sermon? The book is a great read. Excellent writing, a differnt plane than Woody's. Who cares how much of it is truth? And who knows? You? Certainly not me.

No, I didn't expect a sermon, but I did expect more. When someone as prolific as Keith Richards writes his autobiography, which is one of the most-anticipated autobiographies in decades, I think it's only natural that people would expect a little more.
I expected to get to know a little bit about Keith as person. I didn't get that. I got a caricature. I've read interviews from the 60's, 70's and 80's that give more insight to Keith than this book did.

I completely hear, and get, where you're coming from, Gyp. I'm still waiting for my copy to arrive (Monday, supposedly) and will be delighted to read it. And at the same time, I share your and Doxa's belief that Keith appears to be a more substantial and intelligent person than his caricature (naturally; a caricature is a caricature) lets on.

That non-fans and casual fans are reading this book and are surprised by the depth that comes through is sort of touching. That may be vindicating for Keith.

I've often commented [on IORR and in my life] how people rarely listen to what Keith was saying in interviews throughout the years where he was slurring or meandering or trailing off before his thought was neatly sewn up--because it they had listened to what he was saying, heard how he thinks, and not just giggled at his slurring, they would have realized what an exceptionally bright man he is. People laughingly accuse him, and write him off, in those interviews as spewing unintelligible nonsense, but I've always thought either they're not that attuned to music, or he's speaking over their heads---and instead of realizing they don't understand him and he is making sense, they call it gibberish and he's a stoned clown.

Anyway....so this book---which I am greatly looking forward to---will allow non-fans and casual fans at least to see beyond the stoned clown character.

Perhaps in another 20 years he'll write another memoir---when the swashbuckling caricature doesn't serve him anymore, and he's more ok with expressing himself in a more authentic voice. That voice, tho, is one of a thoughtful sensitive introvert who's experienced a lot of pain, and a lot of loss. And who's been on the run from that most of his life. Which book would be harder to write? which book would he rewarded more for? would be received better? The one he just wrote.

As for another, more reflective, more "honest" book about who he is and has been...he's not ready to go there yet...maybe never will be, but I think he will. I'd love to help him write that book someday smiling smiley maybe cuz my Mom was a shrink and some of that rubbed off on me...

- swiss

Re: Less love for Keith
Posted by: Chris Fountain ()
Date: October 31, 2010 06:02

Did Keith make any mention the parallels of nicotine to heroin?

Re: Less love for Keith
Posted by: gypsy18 ()
Date: October 31, 2010 06:19

Quote
swiss
Quote
gypsy18
Quote
MartinB
What did you expect? A sermon? The book is a great read. Excellent writing, a differnt plane than Woody's. Who cares how much of it is truth? And who knows? You? Certainly not me.

No, I didn't expect a sermon, but I did expect more. When someone as prolific as Keith Richards writes his autobiography, which is one of the most-anticipated autobiographies in decades, I think it's only natural that people would expect a little more.
I expected to get to know a little bit about Keith as person. I didn't get that. I got a caricature. I've read interviews from the 60's, 70's and 80's that give more insight to Keith than this book did.

I completely hear, and get, where you're coming from, Gyp. I'm still waiting for my copy to arrive (Monday, supposedly) and will be delighted to read it. And at the same time, I share your and Doxa's belief that Keith appears to be a more substantial and intelligent person than his caricature (naturally; a caricature is a caricature) lets on.

That non-fans and casual fans are reading this book and are surprised by the depth that comes through is sort of touching. That may be vindicating for Keith.

I've often commented [on IORR and in my life] how people rarely listen to what Keith was saying in interviews throughout the years where he was slurring or meandering or trailing off before his thought was neatly sewn up--because it they had listened to what he was saying, heard how he thinks, and not just giggled at his slurring, they would have realized what an exceptionally bright man he is. People laughingly accuse him, and write him off, in those interviews as spewing unintelligible nonsense, but I've always thought either they're not that attuned to music, or he's speaking over their heads---and instead of realizing they don't understand him and he is making sense, they call it gibberish and he's a stoned clown.

Anyway....so this book---which I am greatly looking forward to---will allow non-fans and casual fans at least to see beyond the stoned clown character.

Perhaps in another 20 years he'll write another memoir---when the swashbuckling caricature doesn't serve him anymore, and he's more ok with expressing himself in a more authentic voice. That voice, tho, is one of a thoughtful sensitive introvert who's experienced a lot of pain, and a lot of loss. And who's been on the run from that most of his life. Which book would be harder to write? which book would he rewarded more for? would be received better? The one he just wrote.

As for another, more reflective, more "honest" book about who he is and has been...he's not ready to go there yet...maybe never will be, but I think he will. I'd love to help him write that book someday smiling smiley maybe cuz my Mom was a shrink and some of that rubbed off on me...

- swiss

You hit the nail on the head, swiss.

Re: Less love for Keith
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: October 31, 2010 10:47

Quote
melillo
is the painting the ceiling story in the book?

Of course it is - and Andrew locking them to kitchen (denied by Mick long time ago) and they come up with "As Tears Go By" as their first song ever (yeah it could have but it was not but Keith even describes the process of writing it). Here is what I wrote about your question in other thread:

----

I guess if one is god, one can define the facts.

Keith sticks to his tiresome 'Muddy painting the ceiling' story and mr. Honesty even claims - being seemingly awere of critical voices by now, including notably Marshall Chess - that "ask Bill Wyman" - he will confirm his story.

Well, this is what Mr. Wyman actually writes in his ROLLING WITH THE STONES:

"Muddy very definetely was not up a ladder painting the studio, he was a major star at this time and had been for years."

LIFE is full of these kind of little stories and gossips - too much of them - which makes the book difficult one to take seriously. (Keith is best - and actually relatively honest - when he just describes music and making it.)

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-10-31 10:48 by Doxa.

Re: Less love for Keith
Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: October 31, 2010 11:14

Quote
gypsy18
Quote
swiss
Quote
gypsy18
Quote
MartinB
What did you expect? A sermon? The book is a great read. Excellent writing, a differnt plane than Woody's. Who cares how much of it is truth? And who knows? You? Certainly not me.

No, I didn't expect a sermon, but I did expect more. When someone as prolific as Keith Richards writes his autobiography, which is one of the most-anticipated autobiographies in decades, I think it's only natural that people would expect a little more.
I expected to get to know a little bit about Keith as person. I didn't get that. I got a caricature. I've read interviews from the 60's, 70's and 80's that give more insight to Keith than this book did.

I completely hear, and get, where you're coming from, Gyp. I'm still waiting for my copy to arrive (Monday, supposedly) and will be delighted to read it. And at the same time, I share your and Doxa's belief that Keith appears to be a more substantial and intelligent person than his caricature (naturally; a caricature is a caricature) lets on.

That non-fans and casual fans are reading this book and are surprised by the depth that comes through is sort of touching. That may be vindicating for Keith.

I've often commented [on IORR and in my life] how people rarely listen to what Keith was saying in interviews throughout the years where he was slurring or meandering or trailing off before his thought was neatly sewn up--because it they had listened to what he was saying, heard how he thinks, and not just giggled at his slurring, they would have realized what an exceptionally bright man he is. People laughingly accuse him, and write him off, in those interviews as spewing unintelligible nonsense, but I've always thought either they're not that attuned to music, or he's speaking over their heads---and instead of realizing they don't understand him and he is making sense, they call it gibberish and he's a stoned clown.

Anyway....so this book---which I am greatly looking forward to---will allow non-fans and casual fans at least to see beyond the stoned clown character.

Perhaps in another 20 years he'll write another memoir---when the swashbuckling caricature doesn't serve him anymore, and he's more ok with expressing himself in a more authentic voice. That voice, tho, is one of a thoughtful sensitive introvert who's experienced a lot of pain, and a lot of loss. And who's been on the run from that most of his life. Which book would be harder to write? which book would he rewarded more for? would be received better? The one he just wrote.

As for another, more reflective, more "honest" book about who he is and has been...he's not ready to go there yet...maybe never will be, but I think he will. I'd love to help him write that book someday smiling smiley maybe cuz my Mom was a shrink and some of that rubbed off on me...

- swiss

You hit the nail on the head, swiss.

Exactly. My sentiments, too.

I have started to view the book related to the Rolling Stones performances during last to decades - it very much sticks to the supposed idea of what the people might think or expect from them/him. And Keith plays according to those. Like said, his wit and reflectness, and what people wrongly interpret as "honesty" - might surprise them positively but for me it is just keeping up appearances. This is a book Keith got a lot of money in advance and the publisher wanted to have safe and sure material in salewise, and Keith - being in business for half a century - didn't let them down. His tone and use of non-politically correct expressions here and there (that might thave shocked some people 40 years ago actually) and the so called "honesty of his feelings" is just legitimate way to write tabloid stuff gossiping that surely the publisher was expecting from him. One more other Keef the pirate performance. "On with the show". Personally I feel sad and disappointed how low he can sometimes go. He sounds like a five pence deep throat sometimes, and it makes his claim for "conmradeship" or "loyalty to the band" just - one-more - Keef-role hypocricy. I thought he had more British style and class but he sounds like "hey, you wanna here what my buddy just did. Let's share it with the whole world. hahahhahha".

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-10-31 11:18 by Doxa.

I HAVEN'T READ THE BOOK YET
Posted by: Bliss ()
Date: October 31, 2010 11:45

Yes, it's true. He goes on at great length about friendship and solidarity, but his betrayals of Mick and Brian are breathtaking.

It has been written many times that Mick and Keith never discussed their issues, eg, Mick's affair with Anita, but instead they handled it 'the English way', ie, burying it under the carpet.

I wonder if he ever had a confrontation with Brian. It's very low to slag off the dead, as they can't defend themselves. Mick is said to be 'furious and hurt' by Keith's insults in the book. As I've said, I personally could not get past a friend writing about me as he has written about Mick, but then again, I wouldn't solve issues in 'the English way'. It's possible Keith has tried to discuss things with Mick and Mick has just frozen him out and this is just his way of reclaiming some power. But it's a 'scorched earth' method; everyone loses.

Re: Less love for Keith
Posted by: Daffodil ()
Date: October 31, 2010 12:11

Quote
Doxa
Quote
gypsy18
I wanted people who dismissed Keith as an ignorant junkie to finally get to read how witty, intellectual and well-read he truly is. Sadly, this book doesn't demonstrate that. In my opinion, it shows what a spoiled brat he truly is.
He's been very lucky and very fortunate, but doesn't seem to realize it.

The biggest problem for me is that I think - or I used to think - that Keith is smarter guy than what this book represents. I dont know. Maybe I've been wrong all the way...

But what bothers me is that for many - for example, to be seen in the reviews of non-Stones fans - the book gives smarter picture of Keith than they thought - Keith's public image is something similar to Ozzy Osbournes in smartwise (analogy to Keith's own 'wisdom': if one gives an idiotic picture of oneself, then one is finally thought to be as idiotic as the image is - the junkie non-coherent drunken pirate model has its consequences).

- Doxa

110 % agree with you. That's exactly what I used to babble to non-Keith-fans before the book came out: "wait till you read the book and see how smart & well-read he actually is".

But even the voracious reading habit doesn't ring true after reading "Life": if Keith truly loves literature, shouldn't there be at least some references to books he has read & loved? Instead, we just see him posing in a luxurious library, where the books seem more like (luxurious) pieces of furniture.

Re: Less love for Keith
Posted by: 71Tele ()
Date: October 31, 2010 12:41

The Muddy painting the ceiling story was also explicitly denied in the recent excellent book about Chess records (sorry, can't recall the woman's name now who wrote it). Surprised Keith is still trying to hawk this old chestnut.

Re: I HAVEN'T READ THE BOOK YET
Posted by: Marie ()
Date: October 31, 2010 15:19

Quote
Bliss
Yes, it's true. He goes on at great length about friendship and solidarity, but his betrayals of Mick and Brian are breathtaking.

It has been written many times that Mick and Keith never discussed their issues, eg, Mick's affair with Anita, but instead they handled it 'the English way', ie, burying it under the carpet.

I wonder if he ever had a confrontation with Brian. It's very low to slag off the dead, as they can't defend themselves. Mick is said to be 'furious and hurt' by Keith's insults in the book. As I've said, I personally could not get past a friend writing about me as he has written about Mick, but then again, I wouldn't solve issues in 'the English way'. It's possible Keith has tried to discuss things with Mick and Mick has just frozen him out and this is just his way of reclaiming some power. But it's a 'scorched earth' method; everyone loses.

You only hurt the ones you love?!? I doubt Brian and Keith ever had a confrontation,if they had Keith would not still be carrying that old baggage around. After Brian's busts Keith let him stay at Redlands to get some peace and quiet. Brian also told Helen Spittal he was worried about Keith because he had never seen him as high as he was at the RnR Circus. There was something there, not sure what....

Re: Less love for Keith
Posted by: Baxter Thwaites ()
Date: October 31, 2010 17:50

Quote
melillo
is the painting the ceiling story in the book?

Yes it is and he says that Bill backs the story up. Apparently Muddy's face was covered in paint.

Re: Less love for Keith
Posted by: slew ()
Date: October 31, 2010 17:56

If he is writing politically incorrect statements - Good! This PC shi* needs to stop!!!
I'll reserve my judgement until after I read the book myself.

Re: Less love for Keith
Posted by: NICOS ()
Date: October 31, 2010 18:10

Quote
gypsy18
Quote
NICOS
Quote
gypsy18
I love Keith, but not like I did before the book.


Think I skip the whole book

No! Don't do that. I know how much you like Anita, and Keith talks about her throughout the entire book. Keith is obviously still smitten with her and fascinated by her beauty, her intellect, the fact that he could never have her in the way he has Patti as the reliable wife.He says beautiful things about Patti, but they don't compare to what he says about Anita.

Thanks Gypsy18, Yeah your probably right, I think I can't ignore Keith's book especially if me old girlfriend Anita is involved ........and she is

__________________________

Re: Less love for Keith
Posted by: gypsy18 ()
Date: October 31, 2010 22:42

Quote
NICOS
Quote
gypsy18
Quote
NICOS
Quote
gypsy18
I love Keith, but not like I did before the book.


Think I skip the whole book

No! Don't do that. I know how much you like Anita, and Keith talks about her throughout the entire book. Keith is obviously still smitten with her and fascinated by her beauty, her intellect, the fact that he could never have her in the way he has Patti as the reliable wife.He says beautiful things about Patti, but they don't compare to what he says about Anita.

Thanks Gypsy18, Yeah your probably right, I think I can't ignore Keith's book especially if me old girlfriend Anita is involved ........and she is

That's the spirit!

Re: Less love for Keith
Posted by: EddieByword ()
Date: October 31, 2010 22:54

I don't know about life, Keith Richards wants to get one...if it wasn't for Mick Jagger's input Keith richards would probaly be dead or if not that slumming it like a pauper on the dead beat dusty cobweb London blues circuit at best

Re: Less love for Keith
Posted by: TrulyMicks ()
Date: November 1, 2010 15:28

Quote
elunsi
[
Exactly. Especially me with my limited english. I found that very arrogant, this "joy of friendship" quote. The joy of friendship with Keith? He talks so much about betrayal and loyalty but he did the same betrayal and he is not loyal at all. Sleeping with Marianne two times, or belittleing Mick now.

The "Joy of Friendship" jumped out at me also and made my eyes roll. Keith calls out faults of others so freely, but he is unable to acknowledge his own faults. I don't know about the sleeping around, but he's been belittling Mick for decades, not just now. I would think it would be hard for Mick to have a close friendship with him since he has tried to ridicule him and put him down for so long. Keith and Anita used to and Keith has ever since.

And, what is Keith's idea of a joyous friendhsip anyway? Sitting around drinking and laughing at his one liners? I think it's telling that Keith's new BFF seems to be Johnny Depp....someone who worships him and most likely smothers him with flattery.

Re: Less love for Keith
Posted by: proudmary ()
Date: November 1, 2010 16:26

Quote
TrulyMicks
Quote
elunsi
[
Exactly. Especially me with my limited english. I found that very arrogant, this "joy of friendship" quote. The joy of friendship with Keith? He talks so much about betrayal and loyalty but he did the same betrayal and he is not loyal at all. Sleeping with Marianne two times, or belittleing Mick now.

The "Joy of Friendship" jumped out at me also and made my eyes roll. Keith calls out faults of others so freely, but he is unable to acknowledge his own faults. I don't know about the sleeping around, but he's been belittling Mick for decades, not just now. I would think it would be hard for Mick to have a close friendship with him since he has tried to ridicule him and put him down for so long. Keith and Anita used to and Keith has ever since.

And, what is Keith's idea of a joyous friendhsip anyway? Sitting around drinking and laughing at his one liners? I think it's telling that Keith's new BFF seems to be Johnny Depp....someone who worships him and most likely smothers him with flattery.

Shoot off your mouth
You say you love me
Why do you always do me down down down?
I hit rock bottom
You gave me up without sound, sound, sound

I was a rising star
You hitched your wagon next to mine, mine, mine
The sun was shining bright
I guess I never read the sign, sign, sign
Right at the moment that you saw my hand first slip
Just like a dirty rat you jumped the sinking ship

You smell like Monday morning's fish
I can't get near enough to take a goodbye kiss

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