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No we don't. What songs have Brian, Nicky or Gram claimed to have written?
+ Stop Breakin' Down.
But I didn't see any errors regarding Prodigal Son?
I know, but he was also credited on the album...
Not originally is was added at a later date to reissues
Adding isn't writing, regarding Nicky (Time Waits For No One!!!!?), Brian and Gram is pure speculation.
Thanks, I didn't know that.
I Don't Know Why is not an example of the Glimmer Twins trying to "pull a fast one".
It was an error by Decca/Abkco when it was released as a 45 in 1975. Oddly enough, the demo disc had the correct composer credits: [www.45cat.com]
"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"
Brian's riff? By that logic Mick Taylor wrote Bitch. I've never seen him claiming that...
What Ronnie is addressing could also very well be being a part of the creative process at the right time, meaning being there when the decisions are made for changes, development, riffs, lyrical suggestion (titles, hooks) etc.
And, yes, I think JJF would have passed just as good today.
You are correct on the UK release , the US demo release was credited to Jagger / Richards / Taylor
I've also read the "Brian's riff" thing on The Last Time before. BILL's piano riff on Paint it Black and Emotional Rescue as well. I have no idea if that is true or not...please don't shoot the messenger.
Billy Preston was an accomplished song writer. You can look it up.
By the way, how many songs has Keith Richards written on his own?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-01-04 17:24 by SweetThing.
Yes, like creating The Last Time riff.
Bear in mind that by the time Ronnie joins they are maybe a bit more wary of having to change guitar players again so may have softened a bit regarding credits, throwing him a credit bone every now and then to keep him happy. Plus Ronnie had already released his own album and been credited for writing stuff with Faces.
Ronnie's situation and the times in which it took place is different to when Brian and co were faced with this new Jagger - Richard song writing business deal.
The credits don't always reflect the true story of who wrote the songs, but of course they do at times as well. We'll never know for sure which is which.
Well, up to 1967 Keith wrote the majority of the songs with Jagger writing the lyrics. And most of the songs Keith sings with The Stones he wrote them on his own.
On which songs?
For sure Mick came up with vocal melodies as well.
Perhaps I'm in error but aren't all songs on Stones LPs credited to Jagger / Richards that they wrote ? I cannot recall seeing anything other than that credit . Unless of course there was another writer credited along with them . EG "Everything Is Turning to Gold"
Of course on their solo LPs the writing credits are solo or with other writers
LOL! In fairness you are picking bits of my post here
But I agree with you. On the other hand, I have no reason to believe that the credits don´t reflect the true story of who wrote the songs most of the times.
There's Jagger/Richards/KD Lang song and Jagger/Richards/ Pierre DeBeaumont song on Bridges To Babylon. Sister Morphine on Sticky Fingers has been credited to Jager/Richards/Faithfull, etc ..there's plenty of co- written songs on Stones albums.
+ hey Negrita, Melody
Of course Brian wrote it, he played it and Keith said it was a good riff that Brian played which is as close as you get with Keith admitting anything. Keith didnt write the Satisfaction riff though. He played it but didnt write it.
Actually, in 1965 when he was asked who wrote The Last Time riff Keith did go as far as saying Brian wrote it.
Keith thought the Satisfaction riff sounded like a horn riff, it was written for horns. The riff came to Keith in one of his dreams.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-01-04 21:21 by Redhotcarpet.
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Writing credita in the Stones
Posted by:
varilla
()
Date: January 4, 2012 16:27
There´s a lot of talk about this matter. We all know of an interminable list of musicians claiming that they deserve writing credits for this or that song.
You name them: Bill Wyman, Brian Jones, Mick Taylor, Billy Preston, Nicky Hopkins, Gram Parsons,etc, etc
Obviously, they have contributed and they got paid for it, but i am sure all the great songs would appear all the same without all the contributions.
Maybe they would not be the same, have another feel, etc, but the Rolling Stones would still be the Rolling Stones. What have all these musicians done when apart from Jagger/Richards? Not much in my opinion
On the other hand, lots of times the Glimmer twins shared writing credits (ronnie Wood, Mick Taylor, Chuck Leavell, Pierre de Beauport, M.Faithfull, etc) so maybe, when deserved, Mick and Keef , open themselves to sharing credits.
You name them: Bill Wyman, Brian Jones, Mick Taylor, Billy Preston, Nicky Hopkins, Gram Parsons,etc, etc
Obviously, they have contributed and they got paid for it, but i am sure all the great songs would appear all the same without all the contributions.
Maybe they would not be the same, have another feel, etc, but the Rolling Stones would still be the Rolling Stones. What have all these musicians done when apart from Jagger/Richards? Not much in my opinion
On the other hand, lots of times the Glimmer twins shared writing credits (ronnie Wood, Mick Taylor, Chuck Leavell, Pierre de Beauport, M.Faithfull, etc) so maybe, when deserved, Mick and Keef , open themselves to sharing credits.
Re: Writing credita in the Stones
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 4, 2012 16:29
Quote
varilla
There´s a lot of talk about this matter. We all know of an interminable list of musicians claiming that they deserve writing credits for this or that song.
You name them: Bill Wyman, Brian Jones, Mick Taylor, Billy Preston, Nicky Hopkins, Gram Parsons,etc, etc
Obviously, they have contributed and they got paid for it, but i am sure all the great songs would appear all the same without all the contributions.
Maybe they would not be the same, have another feel, etc, but the Rolling Stones would still be the Rolling Stones. What have all these musicians done when apart from Jagger/Richards? Not much in my opinion
On the other hand, lots of times the Glimmer twins shared writing credits (ronnie Wood, Mick Taylor, Chuck Leavell, Pierre de Beauport, M.Faithfull, etc) so maybe, when deserved, Mick and Keef , open themselves to sharing credits.
No we don't. What songs have Brian, Nicky or Gram claimed to have written?
Re: Writing credita in the Stones
Posted by:
boston2006
()
Date: January 4, 2012 16:33
Although you make a valid point regarding sharing credits , you must admit that the Glimmer Twins tried to pull a fast one on several occaisions regarding credits .
EG . Sister Morphine
I Don't Know Why
Prodigal Son
These are obvious " errors in judgement " there are several others .
EG . Sister Morphine
I Don't Know Why
Prodigal Son
These are obvious " errors in judgement " there are several others .
Re: Writing credita in the Stones
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 4, 2012 16:37
Quote
boston2006
Although you make a valid point regarding sharing credits , you must admit that the Glimmer Twins tried to pull a fast one on several occaisions regarding credits .
EG . Sister Morphine
I Don't Know Why
Prodigal Son
These are obvious " errors in judgement " there are several others .
+ Stop Breakin' Down.
But I didn't see any errors regarding Prodigal Son?
Re: Writing credita in the Stones
Posted by:
boston2006
()
Date: January 4, 2012 16:45
It was written by Reverend Wilkins
Re: Writing credita in the Stones
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 4, 2012 16:47
Quote
boston2006
It was written by Reverend Wilkins
I know, but he was also credited on the album...
Re: Writing credita in the Stones
Posted by:
varilla
()
Date: January 4, 2012 16:52
In Brian´s case i think it was a general disechantment, not for a particular song. He felt he deserved some credit for his contributions (read for example,Phelge´s book)
Nicky felt quite bitter for various songs in which he added a lot (read Dawsons book on Nicky): Angie, Time Waits for no one, Salt of the Earth, maybe even Sympathy, etc
Gram, well, i really don´t know, but i acknowledge that at some point or another he felt like he was an inspiration for Keith. Ok, maybe we can count Gram out of this picture but not the other two
Nicky felt quite bitter for various songs in which he added a lot (read Dawsons book on Nicky): Angie, Time Waits for no one, Salt of the Earth, maybe even Sympathy, etc
Gram, well, i really don´t know, but i acknowledge that at some point or another he felt like he was an inspiration for Keith. Ok, maybe we can count Gram out of this picture but not the other two
Re: Writing credita in the Stones
Posted by:
boston2006
()
Date: January 4, 2012 16:54
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
boston2006
It was written by Reverend Wilkins
I know, but he was also credited on the album...
Not originally is was added at a later date to reissues
Re: Writing credita in the Stones
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 4, 2012 16:56
Quote
varilla
In Brian´s case i think it was a general disechantment, not for a particular song. He felt he deserved some credit for his contributions (read for example,Phelge´s book)
Nicky felt quite bitter for various songs in which he added a lot (read Dawsons book on Nicky): Angie, Time Waits for no one, Salt of the Earth, maybe even Sympathy, etc
Gram, well, i really don´t know, but i acknowledge that at some point or another he felt like he was an inspiration for Keith. Ok, maybe we can count Gram out of this picture but not the other two
Adding isn't writing, regarding Nicky (Time Waits For No One!!!!?), Brian and Gram is pure speculation.
Re: Writing credita in the Stones
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 4, 2012 16:58
Quote
boston2006Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
boston2006
It was written by Reverend Wilkins
I know, but he was also credited on the album...
Not originally is was added at a later date to reissues
Thanks, I didn't know that.
Re: Writing credits in the Stones
Posted by:
Deltics
()
Date: January 4, 2012 17:02
Quote
boston2006
Although you make a valid point regarding sharing credits , you must admit that the Glimmer Twins tried to pull a fast one on several occaisions regarding credits .
EG . Sister Morphine
I Don't Know Why
Prodigal Son
These are obvious " errors in judgement " there are several others .
I Don't Know Why is not an example of the Glimmer Twins trying to "pull a fast one".
It was an error by Decca/Abkco when it was released as a 45 in 1975. Oddly enough, the demo disc had the correct composer credits: [www.45cat.com]
"As we say in England, it can get a bit trainspottery"
Re: Writing credita in the Stones
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: January 4, 2012 17:09
Speculations yes but when Ronnie says credits was about being at the right place at the right time, when and where the decisions are made, you understand that the credits dont mean Jagger/Richards wrote everything. I dont think The Last Time (Brians riff, lyrics "borrowed") or JJF would have passed today.
Re: Writing credita in the Stones
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 4, 2012 17:13
Quote
Redhotcarpet
Speculations yes but when Ronnie says credits was about being at the right place at the right time, when and where the decisions are made, you understand that the credits dont mean Jagger/Richards wrote everything. I dont think The Last Time (Brians riff, lyrics "borrowed") or JJF would have passed today.
Brian's riff? By that logic Mick Taylor wrote Bitch. I've never seen him claiming that...
What Ronnie is addressing could also very well be being a part of the creative process at the right time, meaning being there when the decisions are made for changes, development, riffs, lyrical suggestion (titles, hooks) etc.
And, yes, I think JJF would have passed just as good today.
Re: Writing credits in the Stones
Posted by:
boston2006
()
Date: January 4, 2012 17:19
Quote
DelticsQuote
boston2006
Although you make a valid point regarding sharing credits , you must admit that the Glimmer Twins tried to pull a fast one on several occaisions regarding credits .
EG . Sister Morphine
I Don't Know Why
Prodigal Son
These are obvious " errors in judgement " there are several others .
I Don't Know Why is not an example of the Glimmer Twins trying to "pull a fast one".
It was an error by Decca/Abkco when it was released as a 45 in 1975. Oddly enough, the demo disc had the correct composer credits: [www.45cat.com]
You are correct on the UK release , the US demo release was credited to Jagger / Richards / Taylor
Re: Writing credita in the Stones
Posted by:
treaclefingers
()
Date: January 4, 2012 17:22
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Redhotcarpet
Speculations yes but when Ronnie says credits was about being at the right place at the right time, when and where the decisions are made, you understand that the credits dont mean Jagger/Richards wrote everything. I dont think The Last Time (Brians riff, lyrics "borrowed") or JJF would have passed today.
Brian's riff? By that logic Mick Taylor wrote Bitch. I've never seen him claiming that...
What Ronnie is addressing could also very well be being a part of the creative process at the right time, meaning being there when the decisions are made for changes, development, riffs, lyrical suggestion (titles, hooks) etc.
And, yes, I think JJF would have passed just as good today.
I've also read the "Brian's riff" thing on The Last Time before. BILL's piano riff on Paint it Black and Emotional Rescue as well. I have no idea if that is true or not...please don't shoot the messenger.
Re: Writing credita in the Stones
Posted by:
SweetThing
()
Date: January 4, 2012 17:23
Quote
varilla
There´s a lot of talk about this matter. We all know of an interminable list of musicians claiming that they deserve writing credits for this or that song.
You name them: Bill Wyman, Brian Jones, Mick Taylor, Billy Preston, Nicky Hopkins, Gram Parsons,etc, etc
Obviously, they have contributed and they got paid for it, but i am sure all the great songs would appear all the same without all the contributions.
Maybe they would not be the same, have another feel, etc, but the Rolling Stones would still be the Rolling Stones. What have all these musicians done when apart from Jagger/Richards? Not much in my opinion
On the other hand, lots of times the Glimmer twins shared writing credits (ronnie Wood, Mick Taylor, Chuck Leavell, Pierre de Beauport, M.Faithfull, etc) so maybe, when deserved, Mick and Keef , open themselves to sharing credits.
Billy Preston was an accomplished song writer. You can look it up.
By the way, how many songs has Keith Richards written on his own?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-01-04 17:24 by SweetThing.
Re: Writing credita in the Stones
Posted by:
boston2006
()
Date: January 4, 2012 17:31
Quote
SweetThingQuote
varilla
By the way, how many songs has Keith Richards written on his own?
I recall reading that regardless of the author that Mick & Keith agered long ago to share credits .
Re: Writing credita in the Stones
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: January 4, 2012 17:34
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Redhotcarpet
Speculations yes but when Ronnie says credits was about being at the right place at the right time, when and where the decisions are made, you understand that the credits dont mean Jagger/Richards wrote everything. I dont think The Last Time (Brians riff, lyrics "borrowed") or JJF would have passed today.
Brian's riff? By that logic Mick Taylor wrote Bitch. I've never seen him claiming that...
What Ronnie is addressing could also very well be being a part of the creative process at the right time, meaning being there when the decisions are made for changes, development, riffs, lyrical suggestion (titles, hooks) etc.
And, yes, I think JJF would have passed just as good today.
Yes, like creating The Last Time riff.
Bear in mind that by the time Ronnie joins they are maybe a bit more wary of having to change guitar players again so may have softened a bit regarding credits, throwing him a credit bone every now and then to keep him happy. Plus Ronnie had already released his own album and been credited for writing stuff with Faces.
Ronnie's situation and the times in which it took place is different to when Brian and co were faced with this new Jagger - Richard song writing business deal.
The credits don't always reflect the true story of who wrote the songs, but of course they do at times as well. We'll never know for sure which is which.
Re: Writing credita in the Stones
Posted by:
SweetThing
()
Date: January 4, 2012 17:39
Quote
boston2006Quote
SweetThingQuote
varilla
By the way, how many songs has Keith Richards written on his own?
I recall reading that regardless of the author that Mick & Keith agered long ago to share credits .
Yes, that's correct. Somehow though we still have very many Jagger solo credits. Again, how many does Keith have? (It's only a question here boston2006, in the context of varilla's opening post..._
Re: Writing credita in the Stones
Posted by:
stones78
()
Date: January 4, 2012 17:40
Quote
SweetThingQuote
varilla
There´s a lot of talk about this matter. We all know of an interminable list of musicians claiming that they deserve writing credits for this or that song.
You name them: Bill Wyman, Brian Jones, Mick Taylor, Billy Preston, Nicky Hopkins, Gram Parsons,etc, etc
Obviously, they have contributed and they got paid for it, but i am sure all the great songs would appear all the same without all the contributions.
Maybe they would not be the same, have another feel, etc, but the Rolling Stones would still be the Rolling Stones. What have all these musicians done when apart from Jagger/Richards? Not much in my opinion
On the other hand, lots of times the Glimmer twins shared writing credits (ronnie Wood, Mick Taylor, Chuck Leavell, Pierre de Beauport, M.Faithfull, etc) so maybe, when deserved, Mick and Keef , open themselves to sharing credits.
Billy Preston was an accomplished song writer. You can look it up.
By the way, how many songs has Keith Richards written on his own?
Well, up to 1967 Keith wrote the majority of the songs with Jagger writing the lyrics. And most of the songs Keith sings with The Stones he wrote them on his own.
Re: Writing credita in the Stones
Posted by:
stones78
()
Date: January 4, 2012 17:41
Quote
SweetThing
Yes, that's correct. Somehow though we still have very many Jagger solo credits.
On which songs?
Re: Writing credita in the Stones
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: January 4, 2012 17:47
Quote
stones78
Well, up to 1967 Keith wrote the majority of the songs with Jagger writing the lyrics. And most of the songs Keith sings with The Stones he wrote them on his own.
For sure Mick came up with vocal melodies as well.
Re: Writing credita in the Stones
Posted by:
boston2006
()
Date: January 4, 2012 18:02
Quote
stones78Quote
SweetThing
Yes, that's correct. Somehow though we still have very many Jagger solo credits.
On which songs?
Perhaps I'm in error but aren't all songs on Stones LPs credited to Jagger / Richards that they wrote ? I cannot recall seeing anything other than that credit . Unless of course there was another writer credited along with them . EG "Everything Is Turning to Gold"
Of course on their solo LPs the writing credits are solo or with other writers
Re: Writing credita in the Stones
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: January 4, 2012 18:11
Quote
His MajestyQuote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Redhotcarpet
Speculations yes but when Ronnie says credits was about being at the right place at the right time, when and where the decisions are made, you understand that the credits dont mean Jagger/Richards wrote everything. I dont think The Last Time (Brians riff, lyrics "borrowed") or JJF would have passed today.
Brian's riff? By that logic Mick Taylor wrote Bitch. I've never seen him claiming that...
What Ronnie is addressing could also very well be being a part of the creative process at the right time, meaning being there when the decisions are made for changes, development, riffs, lyrical suggestion (titles, hooks) etc.
And, yes, I think JJF would have passed just as good today.
Yes, like creating The Last Time riff.
Bear in mind that by the time Ronnie joins they are maybe a bit more wary of having to change guitar players again so may have softened a bit regarding credits, throwing him a credit bone every now and then to keep him happy. Plus Ronnie had already released his own album and been credited for writing stuff with Faces.
Ronnie's situation and the times in which it took place is different to when Brian and co were faced with this new Jagger - Richard song writing business deal.
The credits don't always reflect the true story of who wrote the songs, but of course they do at times as well. We'll never know for sure which is which.
LOL! In fairness you are picking bits of my post here
But I agree with you. On the other hand, I have no reason to believe that the credits don´t reflect the true story of who wrote the songs most of the times.Re: Writing credita in the Stones
Posted by:
seitan
()
Date: January 4, 2012 18:33
Quote
boston2006Quote
stones78Quote
SweetThing
Yes, that's correct. Somehow though we still have very many Jagger solo credits.
On which songs?
Perhaps I'm in error but aren't all songs on Stones LPs credited to Jagger / Richards that they wrote ? I cannot recall seeing anything other than that credit . Unless of course there was another writer credited along with them . EG "Everything Is Turning to Gold"
Of course on their solo LPs the writing credits are solo or with other writers
There's Jagger/Richards/KD Lang song and Jagger/Richards/ Pierre DeBeaumont song on Bridges To Babylon. Sister Morphine on Sticky Fingers has been credited to Jager/Richards/Faithfull, etc ..there's plenty of co- written songs on Stones albums.
Re: Writing credita in the Stones
Posted by:
71Tele
()
Date: January 4, 2012 19:36
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
boston2006
Although you make a valid point regarding sharing credits , you must admit that the Glimmer Twins tried to pull a fast one on several occaisions regarding credits .
EG . Sister Morphine
I Don't Know Why
Prodigal Son
These are obvious " errors in judgement " there are several others .
+ Stop Breakin' Down.
But I didn't see any errors regarding Prodigal Son?
+ hey Negrita, Melody
Re: Writing credita in the Stones
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: January 4, 2012 21:13
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Redhotcarpet
Speculations yes but when Ronnie says credits was about being at the right place at the right time, when and where the decisions are made, you understand that the credits dont mean Jagger/Richards wrote everything. I dont think The Last Time (Brians riff, lyrics "borrowed") or JJF would have passed today.
Brian's riff? By that logic Mick Taylor wrote Bitch. I've never seen him claiming that...
What Ronnie is addressing could also very well be being a part of the creative process at the right time, meaning being there when the decisions are made for changes, development, riffs, lyrical suggestion (titles, hooks) etc.
And, yes, I think JJF would have passed just as good today.
Of course Brian wrote it, he played it and Keith said it was a good riff that Brian played which is as close as you get with Keith admitting anything. Keith didnt write the Satisfaction riff though. He played it but didnt write it.
Re: Writing credita in the Stones
Posted by:
varilla
()
Date: January 4, 2012 21:15
Who wrote Satisfaction then?
Re: Writing credita in the Stones
Posted by:
His Majesty
()
Date: January 4, 2012 21:17
Quote
Redhotcarpet
Of course Brian wrote it, he played it and Keith said it was a good riff that Brian played which is as close as you get with Keith admitting anything.
Actually, in 1965 when he was asked who wrote The Last Time riff Keith did go as far as saying Brian wrote it.
Re: Writing credita in the Stones
Posted by:
Redhotcarpet
()
Date: January 4, 2012 21:19
Quote
varilla
Who wrote Satisfaction then?
Keith thought the Satisfaction riff sounded like a horn riff, it was written for horns. The riff came to Keith in one of his dreams.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2012-01-04 21:21 by Redhotcarpet.
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