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lem motlow

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stoneswashed77

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Shawn20

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stoneswashed77
muddy opened for clapton??? shame on clapton, what does this guy think who he is?

I also saw Muddy open for Clapton in 1979. So you think Clapton should have opened for Muddy? You don't really believe that. If Clapton would have opened for Muddy, 9500 of the 10,000 would have left and the great Muddy Waters would have played in front of 500 die-hards. No one, including the Stones have been more respectful of their blues heroes than Clapton.

and isn´t that a shame. i don´t want to live in a world where 95% prefer clapton over muddy.

or maybe i just have fun with the remaining 5 %.

you're putting too much effort into sounding hardcore.i saw muddy and eric at different times during that era.muddy souded good,a living legend sitting in a chair running through his list of great songs in a club.but remember,this is clapton more that 30 years ago.the master was not in the students league at that point.

i don´t consider clapton a master and i don´t think he every passed the student league.

he never played or wrote anything original, onlky that would make a master.

without that you are only a nice, technically talented copy.

disagree about EC - very much a master musician.

it's not at all unusual for these kinda of pairings, though. I saw Albert King opening for Mayall/MT at the Stone in SF in the 80's. not only that - Mayall played King's signature tune, Oh Pretty Woman, not the master himself. go figure. but in both of these cases, it's clear the peeps were there to see the....ummm....white guy.

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DandelionPowderman
If he decides to make it simple, he´ll be fine. More open G, less noodling. If I were Keith, I would use lighter strings and custom made guitars that are extremely light played as well.

Indeed.

The problem is that more open-G stuff would mean more chords for him to remember. For Keith, it's easier to noodle around on a scale when he knows the key of the song as opposed to switching around for chords. Physically, it'd be wise for him to stick to strict rhythm work and leave all solos to Ronnie. Unfortunately, he's not accepting his limitations and not making any changes.

My guess is his medication absolutely didn't mix well with alchohol, and that he didn't managed to stay sober during most shows. After things going really wrong in Finland, he played a really good show and looked sharp in Copenhagen a few days later.
The arthritis thing is what is more difficult to guess upon. If he's getting help from good people who knows some of the ways to fight it with more or less "alternative methods" he should be fine.
So my conclusion is that there's still hope, I've seen miracles with arthritis cases, and Keith stopped with the drugs when ultimately he had to choose bewteen music and drugs.

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bjarke_nl
My guess is his medication absolutely didn't mix well with alchohol, and that he didn't managed to stay sober during most shows. After things going really wrong in Finland, he played a really good show and looked sharp in Copenhagen a few days later.
The arthritis thing is what is more difficult to guess upon. If he's getting help from good people who knows some of the ways to fight it with more or less "alternative methods" he should be fine.
So my conclusion is that there's still hope, I've seen miracles with arthritis cases, and Keith stopped with the drugs when ultimately he had to choose bewteen music and drugs.

It's not really arthritis Keith has, it's Heberden's nodes:

[en.wikipedia.org]

The article says they are a sign of Osteoarthritis, but Keith doesn't necessarily have the traditional arthritis you may be thinking of. If he does have arthritis, then there may be some treatments that might help with that, but there's nothing that can be done about the nodes, they are there to stay, I imagine they affect his playing, and there is likely nothing that can change that. I think that's a big reason why he tends to get stuck playing the same little licks over and over, he doesn't have the mobility he once did, and with those knots, probably never will.

Apparently the pain and inflammation subside over time, which is likely true for Keith at this point, since he's had them since at least the mid 90's.

Dunno about bounce back .... Stroll back would be more in Keith's style ...



ROCKMAN

Taylor is overrated. Ronnie is underrated. If Keith can't cut it, the band doesn't tour. Seems like we'll all know which way it goes in a few months.

Best band ever though. By far.

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saulsurvivor
Taylor is overrated. Ronnie is underrated.

This is based on which records and which performances, exactly?

I think you are overrrated.

I think you are underrated, but as what you'll have to guess.

I think Goats Head Soup and IORR are vastly overrated and that MT brings nothing memorable to them.

Obviously, his work on SF and EOMS is excellent.

I find his solos entirely too busy with increasing frequency from the live shows in '72 and '73.

His contribution to the Stones from '69-'74 is laughably over emphasized. All any one has to do is watch L&G The Rolling Stones, and it becomes apparent that the Stones in '72 were the Jagger/Richards show. Taylor is a fine guitarist, but the band belongs to Mick and Keith.

Sometime over the past decade, Taylorites have tried to rewrite the band's history as if he was this shining beacon of brilliance amongst mediocrity during his time with the band. That is utter nonsense. Mick and Keith were the Rolling Stones, and Taylor was the guy who played most of the solos. They would have been just as good with another well chosen virtuoso.

I prefer the sound of the band with Ronnie. My favorite tours are probably '78 and '81. The concept that Ronnie isn't a kick ass guitarist because he doesn't play virtuoso solos is insane. Ronnie Wood is a great guitar player.

I understand all too well that the music industry is full of @#$%& that think that "technical proficiency" equates greatness. Look at all the idiots who rag on Charlie!

I'm at the point where I am wary of Taylorites. I question whether or not they actually love the Rolling Stones, or just the style with which MT plays guitar.

"Well, Denham, the airplanes got him."
"Oh no, it wasn't the airplanes. It Heberden's nodes killed the beast."

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Edith Grove


BTW, that Fiji thing happened in April '06, if I remember correctly, and I saw a pretty good performance in Boise in November '06.

I saw Boise and several other shows in the Fall of 2006 and he played quite fine BUT something happened by the time June 2007 rolled around and he was definitely off at several shows that I saw that Summer.

The big question is: do the Heberden's nodes prevent KR from having a 'flat' first finger so he can even make his signature open G chords? I think they do prevent that, and as such, he's limited to his fingertips (no barre chords). So, more noodling and single note passages, and less of the full ringing chords we're used to in open G. Ironically, the thing that might be the easiest to accomplish with his condition, which would be to slap a slide on his left pinky, is the one area they've never needed any help in because of Ronnie's proficiency at slide, lap steel and pedal steel. What they need is a big, fat distorted open G guitar out front for some of their signature tunes, and that would have to fall to Ronnie. So you hire MT for the tour and set him near the horns playing all the required riffs/solos while Ronnie, KR and Jagger prowl and work the crowd.

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winter
The big question is: do the Heberden's nodes prevent KR from having a 'flat' first finger so he can even make his signature open G chords? I think they do prevent that, and as such, he's limited to his fingertips (no barre chords). So, more noodling and single note passages, and less of the full ringing chords we're used to in open G. Ironically, the thing that might be the easiest to accomplish with his condition, which would be to slap a slide on his left pinky, is the one area they've never needed any help in because of Ronnie's proficiency at slide, lap steel and pedal steel. What they need is a big, fat distorted open G guitar out front for some of their signature tunes, and that would have to fall to Ronnie. So you hire MT for the tour and set him near the horns playing all the required riffs/solos while Ronnie, KR and Jagger prowl and work the crowd.

Good point! Just watch the ABB DVD from Austin (Learning The Game). The simplest song in the world to play. He has major trouble keeping his index finger in position. It's like you cheer for him on every chord he gets right.

If indeed his troubles are as big as we think, it's an even bigger accomplishment by Keith. He deserves way more from the fans than he gets on this board, imo.

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winter
The big question is: do the Heberden's nodes prevent KR from having a 'flat' first finger so he can even make his signature open G chords? I think they do prevent that, and as such, he's limited to his fingertips (no barre chords). So, more noodling and single note passages, and less of the full ringing chords we're used to in open G.

Yeah, do the nodes get in the way of the various fingerings needed for guitar. I think they do, it's a big issue in his live playing, and I think not much can be done about it.

Funnily enough, in clips I've seen of him playing acoustically, especially blues, or warming up backstage with Ronnie, he seems to play as good as ever. But I think that kind of casual playing is a lot different from playing fully electric rock guitar onstage. It's one thing to sound good while dicking around playing whatever pops into your head, but to play song after song consistently well, with all their structured nuances, for two hours is a whole other thing.

The fingers obviously limit the technical boundaries of his playing... but that's been the case for the last fifteen years or so.

He's learn't how to play very well within those boundaries.
He just needs more thought and discipline sometimes...but they're not in his make up as a musician.

The characteristics of Keith's playing which prompt all the howls of protest are the same ones that also bring the moments of inspired genius.

Keith Richards the guitar player has always been served up "warts an all".

The sporadic issues following that bump on the head asside... the tone and groove remain essentially undiminished.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2010-09-21 18:34 by Spud.

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milio77
For the spanish shows that I saw in 2007, Keith was clearly ill. I was close enough to the man to see him moving in slow motion, swollen, blurry eyed and disoriented. He wasn't looking too good and sure he wasn't feeling very well. This was not the random off-night or the ordinary good gig with occasional flaws. This was something more serious.

I saw many gigs in 2006 and 2007. In 2006 he was brilliant, but in 2007 he looked very ill (he was very ill in paris 2007, slane 2007 was ok and London (O2) 2007 gigs 2 and 3 were so so.. ).

This description of spanish shows fits well with Paris 2007. He was totally out and, as I were at the second row, I could see some fear in his eyes. Usually, he has fire in his eyes but here he looked switch off and really in bad situation. I think he was afraid of his playing...

Try to find a video of the opening in Paris in 2006, you will see a very embarassed Keith. Not very fine for him, he was on stage without the feeling to be the right man in the right place. It is very sad to say, and I would like to add that I like his performance (I am always placed on keith side near the stage, and I look him more than Mick). But I think, at least at these times, he was very ill (I remember Ronnie shouting after him, just to say what he had to do in the show... and keith had no reaction as someone under heavy medication). But I also think he was very human in Paris 2006 (as usual), he stopped his playing to catch a little teddy bear someone has thrown to him on stage. He's the best performer (I don't want to write he was). Maybe he feels better now and ready for a new tour. I understand he's not young, and an older Keith in good shape is OK for me. But from what I have seen in 2006, he was not only old, he was also completly disturbed (and I think under heavy medication).

I saw a clip of Keith with Johnny Depp, it was between shooting scenes for the Pirates film. They were being interviewd, then Keith is given a guitar to play in the film - and he starts playing it there and then, a lovely few notes and flourishes. I was quite surprised - I'm sure the clip is on YouTube somewhere, well worth a look.

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WeLoveYou
I saw a clip of Keith with Johnny Depp, it was between shooting scenes for the Pirates film. They were being interviewd, then Keith is given a guitar to play in the film - and he starts playing it there and then, a lovely few notes and flourishes. I was quite surprised - I'm sure the clip is on YouTube somewhere, well worth a look.

Isn´t this on extras on the dvd?

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marko

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WeLoveYou
I saw a clip of Keith with Johnny Depp, it was between shooting scenes for the Pirates film. They were being interviewd, then Keith is given a guitar to play in the film - and he starts playing it there and then, a lovely few notes and flourishes. I was quite surprised - I'm sure the clip is on YouTube somewhere, well worth a look.

Isn´t this on extras on the dvd?

You could be right, I'm not sure..which extras dvd do you mean? I know it's on YouTube....I'll see if I can dig it out some time.

It's bonus material on the POTC dvd

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saulsurvivor
I think you are underrated, but as what you'll have to guess.

I think Goats Head Soup and IORR are vastly overrated and that MT brings nothing memorable to them.

Obviously, his work on SF and EOMS is excellent.

I find his solos entirely too busy with increasing frequency from the live shows in '72 and '73.

His contribution to the Stones from '69-'74 is laughably over emphasized. All any one has to do is watch L&G The Rolling Stones, and it becomes apparent that the Stones in '72 were the Jagger/Richards show. Taylor is a fine guitarist, but the band belongs to Mick and Keith.

Sometime over the past decade, Taylorites have tried to rewrite the band's history as if he was this shining beacon of brilliance amongst mediocrity during his time with the band. That is utter nonsense. Mick and Keith were the Rolling Stones, and Taylor was the guy who played most of the solos. They would have been just as good with another well chosen virtuoso.

I prefer the sound of the band with Ronnie. My favorite tours are probably '78 and '81. The concept that Ronnie isn't a kick ass guitarist because he doesn't play virtuoso solos is insane. Ronnie Wood is a great guitar player.

I understand all too well that the music industry is full of @#$%& that think that "technical proficiency" equates greatness. Look at all the idiots who rag on Charlie!

I'm at the point where I am wary of Taylorites. I question whether or not they actually love the Rolling Stones, or just the style with which MT plays guitar.

+100000000000000

i love ronny. his style and sound is amazing. can´t think of any better match for mick and keith. and surely way better than mick taylor.

LOL!

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saulsurvivor
I think you are underrated, but as what you'll have to guess.

I think Goats Head Soup and IORR are vastly overrated and that MT brings nothing memorable to them.

Obviously, his work on SF and EOMS is excellent.

I find his solos entirely too busy with increasing frequency from the live shows in '72 and '73.

His contribution to the Stones from '69-'74 is laughably over emphasized. All any one has to do is watch L&G The Rolling Stones, and it becomes apparent that the Stones in '72 were the Jagger/Richards show. Taylor is a fine guitarist, but the band belongs to Mick and Keith.

Sometime over the past decade, Taylorites have tried to rewrite the band's history as if he was this shining beacon of brilliance amongst mediocrity during his time with the band. That is utter nonsense. Mick and Keith were the Rolling Stones, and Taylor was the guy who played most of the solos. They would have been just as good with another well chosen virtuoso.

I prefer the sound of the band with Ronnie. My favorite tours are probably '78 and '81. The concept that Ronnie isn't a kick ass guitarist because he doesn't play virtuoso solos is insane. Ronnie Wood is a great guitar player.

I understand all too well that the music industry is full of @#$%& that think that "technical proficiency" equates greatness. Look at all the idiots who rag on Charlie!

I'm at the point where I am wary of Taylorites. I question whether or not they actually love the Rolling Stones, or just the style with which MT plays guitar.

You speak the truth mate, but expect to blasted now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-09-21 15:31 by Ket.

I have athritis in my fingers and I started to develepob My fingers started to hurt in my youth. On Cold days I couldn't hardly move them. I had eddie van halen fast guitar fingers. I noticed if there were long breaks in my playing that I lost my speed and never really could get it back no longer how much I played. It sucked and eventually caused me to get burned out on guitar. Fast forward ten years-- I started playing again but I never could get past a "hump" that hurt my playing. The hump was my fingers. I thought oh well if Keith has it I can deal with too and thought that was it. I met a physical therapist --who was smokin hot by the way!!---- and she showed me some very very simply excercises using a my hands a squeeshy stress ball and rubber bands. IT WORKED WONDERS!!! I not as fast as I used to be and never will but my strength in my fingers helps me to push through and I can play at a more than acceptable level-- granted not as fast as I once was but better. I wish Keith would get that info and try it. He might be suprised. Anyway I think Keith can do it if he wants to. Keith does his best when his back is against the wall. I have learned not to count out the Stones!

Go Dawgs!

Well, I guess the old adage about "opinions are like..." is pretty true. I'll gladly be the lone dissenter on this topic. Keith may not play like he *used* to, but, and this is from a musicians point of view, Keith is every bit the man he always was!

If you disagree with me, that's easy. I dare ya to broach this with Keith!

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stoneswashed77

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saulsurvivor
I think you are underrated, but as what you'll have to guess.

I think Goats Head Soup and IORR are vastly overrated and that MT brings nothing memorable to them.

Obviously, his work on SF and EOMS is excellent.

I find his solos entirely too busy with increasing frequency from the live shows in '72 and '73.

His contribution to the Stones from '69-'74 is laughably over emphasized. All any one has to do is watch L&G The Rolling Stones, and it becomes apparent that the Stones in '72 were the Jagger/Richards show. Taylor is a fine guitarist, but the band belongs to Mick and Keith.

Sometime over the past decade, Taylorites have tried to rewrite the band's history as if he was this shining beacon of brilliance amongst mediocrity during his time with the band. That is utter nonsense. Mick and Keith were the Rolling Stones, and Taylor was the guy who played most of the solos. They would have been just as good with another well chosen virtuoso.

I prefer the sound of the band with Ronnie. My favorite tours are probably '78 and '81. The concept that Ronnie isn't a kick ass guitarist because he doesn't play virtuoso solos is insane. Ronnie Wood is a great guitar player.

I understand all too well that the music industry is full of @#$%& that think that "technical proficiency" equates greatness. Look at all the idiots who rag on Charlie!

I'm at the point where I am wary of Taylorites. I question whether or not they actually love the Rolling Stones, or just the style with which MT plays guitar.

+100000000000000

i love ronny. his style and sound is amazing. can´t think of any better match for mick and keith. and surely way better than mick taylor.

Well, if you love him, you'd better learn his name... It's RONNIE. neber Ronny, remember!

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Addicted

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stoneswashed77

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saulsurvivor
I think you are underrated, but as what you'll have to guess.

I think Goats Head Soup and IORR are vastly overrated and that MT brings nothing memorable to them.

Obviously, his work on SF and EOMS is excellent.

I find his solos entirely too busy with increasing frequency from the live shows in '72 and '73.

His contribution to the Stones from '69-'74 is laughably over emphasized. All any one has to do is watch L&G The Rolling Stones, and it becomes apparent that the Stones in '72 were the Jagger/Richards show. Taylor is a fine guitarist, but the band belongs to Mick and Keith.

Sometime over the past decade, Taylorites have tried to rewrite the band's history as if he was this shining beacon of brilliance amongst mediocrity during his time with the band. That is utter nonsense. Mick and Keith were the Rolling Stones, and Taylor was the guy who played most of the solos. They would have been just as good with another well chosen virtuoso.

I prefer the sound of the band with Ronnie. My favorite tours are probably '78 and '81. The concept that Ronnie isn't a kick ass guitarist because he doesn't play virtuoso solos is insane. Ronnie Wood is a great guitar player.

I understand all too well that the music industry is full of @#$%& that think that "technical proficiency" equates greatness. Look at all the idiots who rag on Charlie!

I'm at the point where I am wary of Taylorites. I question whether or not they actually love the Rolling Stones, or just the style with which MT plays guitar.

+100000000000000

i love ronny. his style and sound is amazing. can´t think of any better match for mick and keith. and surely way better than mick taylor.

Well, if you love him, you'd better learn his name... It's RONNIE. neber Ronny, remember!

i thought his name was ronald "ron".

About 2:12 or so in is what you are asking about I believe:





I could make records in there heh haghht!

Everything I do is original.

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RiffKichards

I saw many gigs in 2006 and 2007. In 2006 he was brilliant, but in 2007 he looked very ill (he was very ill in paris 2007, slane 2007 was ok and London (O2) 2007 gigs 2 and 3 were so so.. ).

This description of spanish shows fits well with Paris 2007. He was totally out and, as I were at the second row, I could see some fear in his eyes. Usually, he has fire in his eyes but here he looked switch off and really in bad situation. I think he was afraid of his playing...
.

I couldn't agree more .
I saw him in Lyon in June 2007 and being almost front row allows me to say that I felt something strange in his behaviour.And yes,you're right,in his eyes as well .
He sat on his anckles and did't move for what seemed to me very very long minutes ,doing nothing but smiling and not playing .

To be honest, and to answer to this question :"Can Keith bounce back from 2007? " I would answer :" Well,tell me how he can recover from a heavy treatment due to his brain injury plus the arthrisis that can't get better in the future "

But I want very much this to happen .

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headly123
i think the bottom line is that they just can't do it anymore. It isn't a knock but Keith even said on Jimmy Fallon pushing the exile release 'Don't even ask me to play because you are looking at a very rusty Keith Richards'
I for one won't pay to see a band that can't play and I sure as hell don't want to see a lot of people on stage trying to do fillers for them. I mean god bless him but he just can't play anymore and Ronnie has always been a waste of time.
I am not trying to start a Mick Taylor Vs. Ron Wood deal but i think Ron Wood is a clown and always loved hearing the band with Mick T better. When I have a choise between listening to a version of a song with Mick or Ron , Mick winds everytime.

Then I hope you stay home and watch Al Gore on the Green channel. Greed is good and I will pay whatever they charge.