There are songs on there I like a lot, although as usual I wish they'd remember that they used to write poetry.
And I agree that (like most modern, mainstream albums) it's too long.

Quote
stewedandkeefed
The generally negative view of ABB on this board has always mystified me. Of the records that the Stones made since 1989, it is the only one I truly enjoy. For me, it is a good record because it's actually about something. It's a break-up album and probably reflects Mick's break-up with Jerry Hall. Generally I can't think of songs more meaningless than Flip The Switch or You Got Me Rocking. At least ABB has a theme.

It shouldn't be mystifying that people who grew up with Brown Sugar, Tumblin' Dice, and Coming Down Again would not want to settle for Sweet Neocon, Laugh I Nearly Died and Infamy.

Quote
71Tele

Quote
stewedandkeefed
The generally negative view of ABB on this board has always mystified me. Of the records that the Stones made since 1989, it is the only one I truly enjoy. For me, it is a good record because it's actually about something. It's a break-up album and probably reflects Mick's break-up with Jerry Hall. Generally I can't think of songs more meaningless than Flip The Switch or You Got Me Rocking. At least ABB has a theme.

It shouldn't be mystifying that people who grew up with Brown Sugar, Tumblin' Dice, and Coming Down Again would not want to settle for Sweet Neocon, Laugh I Nearly Died and Infamy.

But do we have to meassure everything new with the best of the best? If we always do that we will never have anything new. A very passive approach to the world, imo.

Ned...it's not really that things are 'measured' against the early stuff so much as the songs are just not that good in general. I'd be the first to hold my hand up and say if there was anything decent. THis album was put out by the greatest rock and roll band in the world and it is just not good enough.

Quote
skipstone
I listened to A Bigger Bang while doing A LOT of driving after Katrina since everything was in doubt and I had no idea what I had to return to. The album came out right after the storm hit after I had done a lot of travelling just to get somewhere to be for a little while and find a new vehicle. I didn't get it for another month when I wound up in Alabama. I listened to it in my truck, exclusively, and played it A LOT when I was going between Louisiana and Alabama through all kinds of destruction and seeing boats in places they shouldn't be to get what I could of my life back together.

So it became a good driving record. So it's one of those albums for me. It has an unfortunate history within my life but it was one of the few things or moments or whatever one wants to call 'it' that cheered me up. That and finding Abita Amber in Fairhope, AL was about it. So maybe I have some kind of strange attachment to the album. I dunno. It helped me through it all.

And I still like it.

Nice Skip.

Funny how music can do many things...comfort being the best byproduct.

I never listen to it. The lyrics make me cringe, they are so laughably, embarrassingly bad..

Ilike a couple of songs on the LP .

I go through phases where I listen to Stones exclusively and that's when I give it some attention .

Lately I've been listening to The Arctic Monkeys

Very good album in my opinion - could of left off a couple of tunes and added a stronger one - still, I enjoy listening to it. It could have been a whole lot worse. I still can't get over how much of a time gap there was between it and Bridges. It almost made ABB redundant. Why bother, that kind of thing. Having said all that, I'm still glad they pulled it off.

First of all, I'd like to mention that I belong to the group of Stones listeners who are often labelled as the "late-borners", those who have only gotten to know and love the music of this group after 1989. And I've always been more interested in their recent recordings than in their old stuff, because this is "my era", this is the time that I've come to like them.

That is the reason why I was disappointed in 2002 when they put out a best of collection with only 4 new songs instead of a full length album. I always considered that a missed opportunity creatively, even though it must have worked out splendidly on the business side of things.

Yet, let me talk about "A Bigger Bang". It's a hit-and-miss affair and easily the weakest of their post-89 albums, even if I include the 4 Licks, which I probably like more than most people on this board.

My favourites from the album sessions are "Driving Too Fast", "She Saw Me Coming", "Rough Justice", "Infamy", "Let Me Down Slow", the long mixes of "We Don't Wanna Go Home" and "Biggest Mistake", "Under the Radar" and "Dangerous Beauty". I don't care about much of the rest of the album.

The major downside of the album is the way it was recorded. That makes it more like demos of not fully completed songs and just a teaser for the tour - which is exactly what it proved to be when listening to live recordings of "Streets Of Love", which present a much more complete song than the studio version.
A lot of the sound was ruined at the mastering stage: the engineer turned the levels up too loud, probably in an attempt to compete with other labels levels, a sad trend which is known as the loudness wars. That leads Mick's voice to crackle right from the beginning of "Rough Justice" and Charlie's cymbals to pour digital hiss at high frequencies all over the songs. It's been heard before on recent Don Was albums, but back in 2004, he and his engineer Krish Sharma didn't know yet how to fix the problem.

ABB is very much a product of the playback method, and the missing interplay between the musicians also sticks out not so nicely. Trying to avoid sounding "country" at all costs also did hurt the product. ABB is rock without the roll, but they are the Rolling Stones and without the roll, they'd be merely Ling Stones.

Despite being good songs and great rockers, "Driving Too Fast" could have well used a 3rd verse, and Ronnie's on a leash on "She Saw Me Coming". The lyrics of "Streets Of Love" suggest that the song was "awful bad" (quote). Why they picked this demo as the lead single is beyond me.

The positive note about the music is that a large part of the album consists of songs in a band arrangement that sound like they are of one piece: "Rough Justice", "It Won't Take Long", "Dangerous Beauty", "Look What the Cat Dragged In", "Driving Too Fast", "Under the Radar", "We Don't Wanna Go Home". And Mick's harmonica on a Keith tune is special, too.
"Let Me Down Slow" has got a lead guitar part that sounds like it could have been from the Paris Licks sessions, which is very good, "Rough Justice" stabs at Meat Loaf, for whatever reason, "Under the Radar" has Mick playing out his stage persona to very good effect, "Dangerous Beauty" has very poignant lyrics (rendering obsolete the funk turd "Sweet Neo-Con"), and "We Don't Wanna Go Home" really lets you believe they don't.

I'm happy that they put out all of the songs that they have released on the album and as outtakes because this way, everybody can choose their own favourites amongst the material. I'm pretty sure we all find different things to like about this album. By the way, the front cover is great.

Ok, let's turn the whole thing around a bit. I guess we all agree that there are some songs on the albums since Steel wheels that are not that good (mind you, there are quite a choice of them on the ones befre as well, but that's not really a part of this experiment).

For the most part of the 70s and 80s albums had 10 songs. What if we stripped down SW, VL, B2B and ABB down to 10 songs. Wouldn't that have changed a lot of the impression?

ABB - 6 songs
B2B - 3 songs
VL - 5 songs
SW - 2 songs

I think all these albums would have benefitted from that, even though I would never have known of it was the ones that I liked that actually got released on the original album.

The irony of this choice would be that everbody in this board would scream for the guys to open the vaults and release deluxe packages including all the leftovers.... Strange things these mechanisms.

Quote
71Tele

Quote
stewedandkeefed
The generally negative view of ABB on this board has always mystified me. Of the records that the Stones made since 1989, it is the only one I truly enjoy. For me, it is a good record because it's actually about something. It's a break-up album and probably reflects Mick's break-up with Jerry Hall. Generally I can't think of songs more meaningless than Flip The Switch or You Got Me Rocking. At least ABB has a theme.

It shouldn't be mystifying that people who grew up with Brown Sugar, Tumblin' Dice, and Coming Down Again would not want to settle for Sweet Neocon, Laugh I Nearly Died and Infamy.

Brown Sugar aside, Let Me Down Slow and This Place Is Empty aren´t the worst substitutes for the mentioned tracks. I like the album, but it´s way too long, imo.

Quote
stewedandkeefed
It's a break-up album and probably reflects Mick's break-up with Jerry Hall.

You must be confusing it with Goddess in the Doorway. Which, by the way, is an album I do like.

NedKelly, it is true that the albums would be a bit stronger if shortened a bit (but we would never find a consensus by which songs). But I guess teh strategy of any album since VOODOO LOUNGE has been to cover the lack of quality by quantity. It is not the case of "wow, we have so many great songs that we need to release them all" but "okay, we don't have strong, distinctive songs enough to make a real hot, cohesive album, so let us instead give them more songs. (In the case of ABB: let's them have them all)."

I think VOODOO LOUNGE, BRIDGES TO BABYLON and A BIGGER BANG are all as albums very faceless - and endless - collections of random songs. It is not only The Stones to blame; it is the goddamn CD format that seems to offer the license to release these kind of way too-long, non-cohesive albums.


- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-09-15 01:49 by Doxa.

-



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-09-15 01:50 by Doxa.

Laugh I Nearly Died & Let Me Down Slow are my favs. She Saw Me Coming & "Look What Cat" my least. MEZ

Nice analysis, billwebster. You're making good sense of the album.

My first Stones album, and probably my favourite. This Place is Empty, It Won't Take Long, Infamy, Dangerous Beauty, Rough Justice and Let Me Down Slow get frequent spins

Agreed, lot's of great songs from '89 on, however, not sure there are any "great ones" on the 'A Bigger Bang' album. I agree with most, far to many forgetful songs, not really bad , but not really all that good either. I am actually listening to it as I write. My favorite is 'Laugh I Nearly Died'. 'She Saw Me Coming' is kind of fun. I often wonder where Mick's head was when he decided to leave 'Under the Radar' off the album. In my opinion it should have been the featured single. I will say one thing for 'Streets of Love' it did go over well live at least in Austin and Qwest Field in '06, and 'Rough Justice' and 'Oh No Not You Again' work OK for live shows. Overall I was a little disappointed in it, although not initially. The good news is that the next album will be a return to greatness! I can feel it coming as sure as I am the Grey Ghost of Stonescrow Ridge!

What a career the stones have had....it is so much for to listen to albums that for one reason or another one has not heard in a long time.... with that in mind, you know what... I love'em all, even the ones I don't like so much. (It probably seems like Yogi Berra helped me write this, but he didn't)

was ABB the Stones' first iPod album? That is, the first one that everyone instinctively wants to tinker with the playlist? Or did this happen with VL and is more of a CD phenomenon? I'm amazed at how all the "ABB Revisited" threads end up going over the same ground, with posters comparing their favorites (none of which are identical, which is strange).

A bigger point is whether one still accepts the post-89 band as even the same artist as the pre-89. I generally stay out of discussions of any songs/albums after Steel Wheels (meaning after Wyman left) because I (and I know this will be controversial) do not even consider the two the same artist. What changed that makes me say such a seemingly preposterous thing? Two things: First, Wyman left, and the rhythm section was forever altered. Instead of the Rolling Stones, it was the Ling Stones (as someone pointed out above). The "roll" was gone.
Second: Albums became gimmicks or necessary components for promoting tours (remember, groups used to tour "behind" a record). The Stones had basically stopped competing on the charts (which made their brief forays into rap, Chemical Bros., Babyface, etc. all the more painful). The songs became fairly random affairs. The producers crafted the songs rather than the songs dictating the production. There was very little inspiration from which these middle-aged millionaires could draw upon to bring about compelling music. I am not saying that despite this there weren't some perfectly listenable, well-executed songs - there were - but the magic was gone. Professionalism - of the suffocating show-biz variety, became the norm, as far as their recording and stage career went.

I don't mean to begrudge the many here who came to Stones fandom from this period their enjoyment. I just think these are two different artists, who happen to share the same key personnel and history, but who lost that special alchemy that made them, well - special. Just like when The Who lost Keith Moon and made the mistake (they themselves later said) of trying to replace him with Kenney Jones. Sure, you were still looking at and hearing something very Who-like, it just wasn't THEM.

So...it's not just a matter of comparing everything newer against the glory days of before and finding the new stuff wanting (as some of us here are constantly being accused of doing). It's recognizing that the magic of the band had something to do with a particular combination of people (I would say at least four, others would say five, but certainly just the three aren't enough).

While the Stones were certainly capable of clunkers before 1989, they were the exceptions. Later on, a great new track that exceeded formula and mediocrity became the exception. And yet, this year we got "Plundered My Soul" which thankfully reminded a lot of us of that other Rolling Stones. The one that made us fans in the first place. My only hope for the future (as far as records go) is to be able to experience a few more of those moments.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-09-15 07:53 by 71Tele.

There were many, many great songs where Wyman was missing in action in the "golden" period as well. Did they lose the roll? Definitely not, imo.

Still, I have an understanding for your view here, but seemingly it's more rooted in sentimental reasons than in the music itself.

Songs like How Can I Stop, The Worst, Love Is Strong, Terrifying, Continental Drift, Break The Spell, Let Me Down Slow, She Saw Me Coming and Rough Justice swing just as much as any good Stones song, imo.

Quote
Shezeboss
Don't care of those sad people. ABB is as fantastic as exile or sticky. Don't pay attention to all these guys who have the UNIK THOUGHT. Let them with ac//dc or bruce springsteen. A bigger bang or bridges are MUSIC and not only cliches...
They always try to tell you what's beautifull...

are you serious? you drnk the stones koolaid way too much. the stones have been a cliche since 1989. that doesn't mean a like or dislike the songs from steel wheels-ABB though.

i like ABB but like someone else stated keeping the albums to 10 or 11 tracks makes them much better. i could do without streets of love and sweet neo con for sure. there are probably 2 or 3 more tunes i could live with never having heard

As a 9 song album, ABB would have been very, very good, imo. With a different producer it could in fact have been great.

liked the album when it came ou, was surprised of the hard rocking vibe, but no roll for sure. still like it but there aren´t any surprises on (maybe Back of my hand a little bit)

ABB is in my opinion their best album in decades. It would have certainly gained to being released to a 10 songs album. Now which ones. Here comes the debate even though at least 5 songs would gather iorreans. Anyway, this could be a nice departure opus.

Quote
skipstone
I listened to A Bigger Bang while doing A LOT of driving after Katrina since everything was in doubt and I had no idea what I had to return to. The album came out right after the storm hit after I had done a lot of travelling just to get somewhere to be for a little while and find a new vehicle. I didn't get it for another month when I wound up in Alabama. I listened to it in my truck, exclusively, and played it A LOT when I was going between Louisiana and Alabama through all kinds of destruction and seeing boats in places they shouldn't be to get what I could of my life back together.

So it became a good driving record. So it's one of those albums for me. It has an unfortunate history within my life but it was one of the few things or moments or whatever one wants to call 'it' that cheered me up. That and finding Abita Amber in Fairhope, AL was about it. So maybe I have some kind of strange attachment to the album. I dunno. It helped me through it all.

And I still like it.

Here's another Katrina / ABB story, copied from another thread I posted on:


Here's a story I'd like to tell.

Some people here already know I live in New Orleans, and most everyone knows about the blow job our city got from a bitch called Katrina. This was right at the time that ABB was coming out. I pre-ordered it, and the CD was delivered to me in Atlanta. Since my car does not have a CD player, I had to wait until returning home to hear the new Stones CD.

My neighborhood was one of the first to have it's electricity restored, and I returned on the first day residents were allowed back.

Before I even bothered to clean up the mess in my flat, I opened all the doors and windows and set my CD player on very high volume. I then listened to ABB for the very first time, about a month after it was released.

Only the military police and die-hard residents were around during those days after the storm, but I received many shouts of approval from people on the street who heard ABB blasting from my flat.

Quote
71Tele
A bigger point is whether one still accepts the post-89 band as even the same artist as the pre-89. I generally stay out of discussions of any songs/albums after Steel Wheels (meaning after Wyman left) because I (and I know this will be controversial) do not even consider the two the same artist. What changed that makes me say such a seemingly preposterous thing? Two things: First, Wyman left, and the rhythm section was forever altered. Instead of the Rolling Stones, it was the Ling Stones (as someone pointed out above). The "roll" was gone.
Second: Albums became gimmicks or necessary components for promoting tours (remember, groups used to tour "behind" a record). The Stones had basically stopped competing on the charts (which made their brief forays into rap, Chemical Bros., Babyface, etc. all the more painful). The songs became fairly random affairs. The producers crafted the songs rather than the songs dictating the production. There was very little inspiration from which these middle-aged millionaires could draw upon to bring about compelling music. I am not saying that despite this there weren't some perfectly listenable, well-executed songs - there were - but the magic was gone. Professionalism - of the suffocating show-biz variety, became the norm, as far as their recording and stage career went.

I don't mean to begrudge the many here who came to Stones fandom from this period their enjoyment. I just think these are two different artists, who happen to share the same key personnel and history, but who lost that special alchemy that made them, well - special. Just like when The Who lost Keith Moon and made the mistake (they themselves later said) of trying to replace him with Kenney Jones. Sure, you were still looking at and hearing something very Who-like, it just wasn't THEM.

So...it's not just a matter of comparing everything newer against the glory days of before and finding the new stuff wanting (as some of us here are constantly being accused of doing). It's recognizing that the magic of the band had something to do with a particular combination of people (I would say at least four, others would say five, but certainly just the three aren't enough).

While the Stones were certainly capable of clunkers before 1989, they were the exceptions. Later on, a great new track that exceeded formula and mediocrity became the exception. And yet, this year we got "Plundered My Soul" which thankfully reminded a lot of us of that other Rolling Stones. The one that made us fans in the first place. My only hope for the future (as far as records go) is to be able to experience a few more of those moments.

Really. really nicely put. I have similar problems with analyzing the post STEEL WHEEELS albums and songs because I have find myself not being much excited by them. I listen them for a while when they are released, afterwards just occasionally. They give some occasional joy, but in a long run they leave me "cold". Now I happen to have a strong SOME GIRLS-Pathe Marconi period and I just can't be without talking about it (as one can see one particular thread where I have seemingly written material about worth of a book of it). I can not think myself never doing such a thing for post STEEL WHEELS stuff. No enough heart in it. I can talk why I don't find them exciting, but that is never such interesting and satisfying as talking about why I happen to like something.

Like 71Tele said, there are some occasional great, distintive songs - say "Saint of Me" and "Out of Control" - but they are more like expections and that's not a good sign. And the very release of "Plundered My Soul" really hit me hard for realizing in what kind of drowse or lethargy The Stones have been for decades (for me) now. A kind of reality check. The very song give the excitement why I happen to love the band in the first place. But like 71Tele said, there are two different bands, and if one finds the post-STEEL WHEELS band exciting and inspiring, there is nothing wrong with it. But it is wrong and unjust to claim it is the same band. A musical unit is more than just a name.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-09-15 12:06 by Doxa.

Quote
DandelionPowderman
There were many, many great songs where Wyman was missing in action in the "golden" period as well. Did they lose the roll? Definitely not, imo.

Exactly right, JJF,Tumbling Dice,IORR just to name a few