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DandelionPowderman

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Doxa

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DandelionPowderman
Remember Beast Of Burden? .

Yeah, but as I have understood - correct me if I'm wrong - it is one of those songs that Jagger actually shaped the final singing melody (that actually is not the most structural even then but more like a rough vehicle to Jagger's interpretaion skills...). As "Angie" as well.

SOME GIRLS, over-all, was made during the era when being precise and working the melodies and rhymes perfect wasn't the latest thing... I think that bloody well suited to Keith Richards...

- Doxa

You may be right, as I have no knowledge of who shaped the song - only that "it was Keith's song". Still, a song like Before They Make Me Run, is for me a very "finished" and well-crafted song with interesting verses, bridge and chorus. And that one was Keith all the way, wasn't it?

I actually remember Mick saying he wrote quite a lot of the lyrics to Before They Make Me Run.

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71Tele

I remember an interview with Keith in the depth of the junkie days (mid-70s) where he said "I've stopped writing songs", meaning composing in the traditional sense. He was bragging about it. His writing became more riff-based and less structured. You can really hear the weakness of this approach on his two solo albums. Most of the songs rely on heavy riffs but are weak lyrically. Mick really took over the songwriting from GHS on. Too bad, because they came up with great stuff when they were doing it back in the 60s with a more "Lennon/McCartney" approach.

I share the point of the solo albums. I think the songs are like raw sketches that are asking someone - guess who - to really write them down. (And even those songs are not solely written by him; Keith always seems to need a partner.)

It is also one of the inconstistencies or even double standards Keith uses in his eternal Brian Jones bashings that "cat really couldn't compose a finished song". I guess many Keith "songs" are not much really more than what poor Brian was also able - as any musician - to come up with. Say, if Keith had written the riff of "The Last Time" in the 70's, from solely that base the whole song had been Keith's song... Or the central riff of "Jumpin' Jack Flash"...

But like said it is difficult to say how much Keith's way to write was based on evolotion of ideas and intentional or just him getting more lazy and druggie... I think it was based on both reasons. I would say though that the idea of getting rid of traditional song structure was a matter of artistic choice. Something to do with his practises on open tunings and studying the authentic blues music that started around BEGGARS time. But what was first stunnning and awesome and inspired - a crown jewel being "Gimme Shelter"- slowly turned to kind of dogmatic lazyness. Perhaps even finally to unability to compose at all in traditional sense.

It is funny that Keith was the man who came with beautiful melodies back in the early days, the 60's. But from the 70s on, it was Jagger.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-08-20 18:25 by Doxa.

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Doxa

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71Tele

I remember an interview with Keith in the depth of the junkie days (mid-70s) where he said "I've stopped writing songs", meaning composing in the traditional sense. He was bragging about it. His writing became more riff-based and less structured. You can really hear the weakness of this approach on his two solo albums. Most of the songs rely on heavy riffs but are weak lyrically. Mick really took over the songwriting from GHS on. Too bad, because they came up with great stuff when they were doing it back in the 60s with a more "Lennon/McCartney" approach.

I share the point of the solo albums. I think the songs are like raw sketches that are asking someone - guess who - to really write them down. (And even those songs are not solely written by him; Keith always seems to need a partner.)

It is also one of the inconstistencies or even double standards Keith uses in his eternal Brian Jones bashings that "cat really couldn't compose a finished song". I guess many Keith "songs" are not much really than what poor Brian was also able - as any musician - to come up with. Say, if Keith had written the riff of "The Last Time" in the 70's, from solely that base the whole song had been Keith's song... Or the central riff of "Jumpin' Jack Flash"...

But like said it is difficult to say how much Keith's way to write was based on evolotion of ideas and intentional or just him getting more lazy and druggie... I think it was based on both reasons. I would say though that the idea of getting rid of traditional song structure was a matter of artistic choice. Something to do with his practises on open tunings and studying the authentic blues music that started around BEGGARS time. But what was first stunnning and awesome and inspired - a crown jewel being "Gimme Shelter"- slowly turned to kind of dogmatic lazyness. Perhaps even finally to unability to compose at all in traditional sense.

It is funny that Keith was the man who came with beautiful melodies back in the early days, the 60's. But from the 70s on, it was Jagger.

- Doxa

Really good points, Doxa...Unfortunately Keith the "Riffmaster" and Keith, the famous rock & roll outlaw character killed Keith Richards the pop songwriter.

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71Tele

I actually remember Mick saying he wrote quite a lot of the lyrics to Before They Make Me Run.

I bet you do: [www.timeisonourside.com]

Keith's got a strong optimistic streak. His last complete song was Happy. And he wrote nearly all of this one except for one or two Oh yeahs in the middle. It's definitely his song.

- Mick Jagger, 1978

LOL! Jagger at his best. This comment was underneath: I wrote most of Before They Make Me Run, but it was Keith's idea.

- Mick Jagger, 1978






Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-08-20 21:33 by DandelionPowderman.

MT is really 1-st person who for quite a long time says smth positive and even complimentary about Mick Jagger. And it is most irregular.See the responces on this board

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behroez

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teleblaster
No Keith = No Stones. It's that simple.

Yep and that's the tragedy the Stones are being kept hostage by a posessive person who doesn't want to see the others succeed without him, but can't really contribute himself anymore either. It's like the sick father who takes his own family with him in his suicide, surely you can see that?

Wait a minute. Aren't you the guy who thinks Exile On Main Street is their WORST album?

Oh wow...another Mick Taylor thread. How rare is that on IORR.

"It's just some friends of mine and they're busting down the door"

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sweetcharmedlife
Oh wow...another Mick Taylor thread. How rare is that on IORR.

...Yes, I suppose an interview with one of the Stones' guitarists about his guitars and his work with the Stones is terribly irrelevant and uncalled for. Please stop posting things about the recording of Sticky Fingers and Exile people! Can't you see it offends sweetcharmedlife? Maybe you should join a Stones site where discussion of one particular group member is prohibited. Or you can start one. You might be happier.

I don't know who you've been seeing on stage, but Keith sounds great. The constant touring was doing him good. I thought Ronnie was not as dynamic on the ABB tour as he was on the Licks tour a few years earlier. Obviously Keith must contribute greatly to songs, or Mick would be pushing for a little more recognition. They have been quite tight lipped about who wrote what for the most part. For the Beatles it's relatively easy, with whoever handled vocals almost always the one who wrote the song. Only Mick and Keith could tell you who wrote what in the Stones, and maybe they don't remember anymore!

Coming down again...........All about you.............. how can i stop.............the worst............ are songs with chord progressions not very usual (as Jagger's).
I mean, KRs music is based:1/ heavy riffs with Jagger and the rest of the band making a song; 2/ Slow songs (Leonard Cohen, Dylan...................)

I love this guy
I love MJ
I love RW & MT
I live BJ + bw
I love chW

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tatters
Wait a minute. Aren't you the guy who thinks Exile On Main Street is their WORST album?

No i don't think it is their worst, it is just not part of my top 10 fav. Stones albums,

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DandelionPowderman
I think Taylor meant that when he created the guitar melody lines, it should have been sufficient to earn him royalties for the track.

Taylor is not a natural songwriter, so it seems that was the way he contributed, sometimes more, sometimes less. Does he deserve songwriting credits that way? I don't think he does.

agree 100%

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Koen

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71Tele
Too bad, because they came up with great stuff when they were doing it back in the 60s with a more "Lennon/McCartney" approach.

Always thought L/M wrote most songs seperately?

only from like ´66 on

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behroez

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tatters
Wait a minute. Aren't you the guy who thinks Exile On Main Street is their WORST album?

No i don't think it is their worst, it is just not part of my top 10 fav. Stones albums,

So Exile is NOT among your top TEN favorite Stones albums. Hmmmmmmm. I have nothing further to say to you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-08-21 16:21 by tatters.

What a good interview. Maybe that changes some opinions about Mick/Keith here.

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DandelionPowderman
Who wants to see The Rolling Stones without Keith Richards? You'd be fairly alone on that show, imo.

It's like driving a Ferrari with bicycle pedals.

Wood could take over. His playing is quite similar to Keith's playing,even better these days,watching the Faces.
And a guitarist that can play a decent lead guitar,like Jeff beck or Steve Hunter.

That will be a Volkswagen with Turbo engines,smaller venues though.
But the F****** nostalgia.

Just finished both parts of the interview. Sounds to me as if Taylor would be open for offers (not up for grabs, but open for offers) for any Stones' tours. He could use the money and they could use something to shake up the status quoe. Taylor might bring a new dynamic to the guitar section. How ironic it would be if Taylor's presence allowed Wood more freedom. I now worry more about Keith's guitar abilities than Woody. Why not try something different?

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Shawn20
Just finished both parts of the interview. Sounds to me as if Taylor would be open for offers (not up for grabs, but open for offers) for any Stones' tours. He could use the money and they could use something to shake up the status quoe. Taylor might bring a new dynamic to the guitar section. How ironic it would be if Taylor's presence allowed Wood more freedom. I now worry more about Keith's guitar abilities than Woody. Why not try something different?

Why not? Because unfortunately the Stones are small-minded and hold grudges a very long time. Well, not Charlie. And maybe not Mick as much since he asked Taylor to play on PMS. And they don't care what Woody thinks. So you know who that leaves...

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Amsterdamned
Wood could take over. His playing is quite similar to Keith's playing,even better these days,watching the Faces.

And if the Faces can go on tour without Rod Steward (i mean really, Rod the face of the Faces!!!), not just that but with great succes than surely the Stones must defenitely be able to go on tour without Keith.

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behroez

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Amsterdamned
Wood could take over. His playing is quite similar to Keith's playing,even better these days,watching the Faces.

And if the Faces can go on tour without Rod Steward (i mean really, Rod the face of the Faces!!!), not just that but with great succes than surely the Stones must defenitely be able to go on tour without Keith.

The current Faces may get good reviews, but there isn't much drawing power without Stewart.

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71Tele

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sweetcharmedlife
Oh wow...another Mick Taylor thread. How rare is that on IORR.

...Yes, I suppose an interview with one of the Stones' guitarists about his guitars and his work with the Stones is terribly irrelevant and uncalled for. Please stop posting things about the recording of Sticky Fingers and Exile people! Can't you see it offends sweetcharmedlife? Maybe you should join a Stones site where discussion of one particular group member is prohibited. Or you can start one. You might be happier.

Yeah he spent 2 whole hours on the PMS session. That's certainly worthy of Mick Taylor joining the the next tour talk.

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sweetcharmedlife

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71Tele

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sweetcharmedlife
Oh wow...another Mick Taylor thread. How rare is that on IORR.

...Yes, I suppose an interview with one of the Stones' guitarists about his guitars and his work with the Stones is terribly irrelevant and uncalled for. Please stop posting things about the recording of Sticky Fingers and Exile people! Can't you see it offends sweetcharmedlife? Maybe you should join a Stones site where discussion of one particular group member is prohibited. Or you can start one. You might be happier.

Yeah he spent 2 whole hours on the PMS session. That's certainly worthy of Mick Taylor joining the the next tour talk.

We don't have to beat it to death. I for one, don't think he will be on any tour. But you must admit that there were plenty of folks here who swore up and down not so long ago on many of these Taylor threads that Taylor would "never" do anything with the Stones again, and then we got Plundered My Soul.

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behroez

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Amsterdamned
Wood could take over. His playing is quite similar to Keith's playing,even better these days,watching the Faces.

And if the Faces can go on tour without Rod Steward (i mean really, Rod the face of the Faces!!!), not just that but with great succes than surely the Stones must defenitely be able to go on tour without Keith.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-08-22 13:41 by Amsterdamned.

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71Tele
We don't have to beat it to death. I for one, don't think he will be on any tour. But you must admit that there were plenty of folks here who swore up and down not so long ago on many of these Taylor threads that Taylor would "never" do anything with the Stones again, and then we got Plundered My Soul.

Hmm... and immediately we got the best Stones track for almost three decades... Okay, that's not solely to due to Taylor, but the first thing that really stock out was the lead guitar (it took me for some time to really dig the song as a whole - thereby following the classical EXILE pattern...), and grasping that bloody hell, that's really Mick Taylor there, almost brought a tear to my eye... There is not really anything extra-ordinary in Taylor's lead but still there is.. it just fits so well. The Stones don't quite often bring me sentiments like this. PMS is the best musical thing I've have heard from the Stones for a very long time, and I had almost forgetten how thrilling is to be excited by a "new" Rolling Stones stuff. Just in terms of music.

By the way, Taylor making his contribution just by two-three takes - very quickly that is - is basically the same old way he was able to in the good ole days with the 'boys'. As I have understood - for example, by their engineer and producer - Taylor was able to to cut the track by just one or two take. He always played "finished" stuff. His guitar partner was a total opposite (maybe that is also one of the reasons why Keith infamously said that "there was no use of Taylor in studio"; very different approach I guess). I am sure that is also one of the qualities Mick Jagger enjoyed Taylor to have, and thereby, find him easy to co-work with. (You can read also this between the lines from the interview). No need to wait the "inspiration" or the "right moment" to come...

- Doxa

The only Stone that can permit a little overweight
but still got a Stones-look.

up
did everybody read that good interview?

Doxa, i'm agree almost wiht everything you say