Most of us have noticed that three well-liked, very prolific posters--Honestman, Swiss, and Proud Mary--are no longer posting. This is apparently because they broke forum rules. BV has stated that they have not been banned; they have had their membership suspended until they apologise and presumably agree not to transgress the rules again.

In theory, this is actually a very generous policy. On some other forums, they would have have had their membership permanently deleted with no hope of return. But in practise, there are some unintended consequences. People aren't necessarily aware that their posts are breaking the rules, unless they are trolls who are simply here to cause uproar. Longstanding members who have contributed a lot to the forum and find themselves summarily excluded, even if temporarily, may be so humiliated, offended or upset at at being treated just the same as if they were a troll, they may choose never to return. This is a serious loss for them and for the forum. Eventually the best posters will disappear, either though being suspended or feeling uncomfortable with this procedure. Without the contributions of long term members, the forum would inevitably decline.

I think there may be better ways of dealing with infractions of the rules. But it needs to be recognised that there are grey areas, the fine line between the right to self-expression and attacks on other members. As someone suggested on another thread, a series of private warnings before permanent deletion would be a way of keeping order and retaining the goodwill of posters who have made valuable contributions. Trolls would be quickly eliminated in any case.

If you have any other ideas or suggestions, please share them.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-12-30 12:46 by Bliss.

bliss, this is a very nice post of yours :-)
You are expressing a general feeling I think.
Yes,some posters don't feel to go back here because they felt humiliated & upset and if things go on and go on like this, the board will look like a desert.

Yesterday,I e-mailed bv in order to make some suggestions but if I understood him well,all what we have to do is to stick to IORR policy.Simple as that.
I think as well that private warnings should be nice .
I also think that there should be a difference of treatment between trolls and "real" fans,great contributors well known here .



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

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Bliss
Most of us have noticed that three well-liked, very prolific posters--Honestman, Swiss, and Proud Mary--are no longer posting. This is apparently because they broke forum rules. BV has stated that they have not been banned; they have had their membership suspended until they apologise and presumably agree not to transgress the rules again.

In theory, this is actually a very generous policy. On some other forums, they would have have had their membership permanently deleted with no hope of return. But in practise, there are some unintended consequences. People aren't necessarily aware that their posts are breaking the rules, unless they are trolls who are simply here to cause uproar. Longstanding members who have contributed a lot to the forum and find themselves summarily excluded, even if temporarily, may be so humiliated, offended or upset at at being treated just the same as if they were a troll, they may choose never to return. This is a serious loss for them and for the forum. Eventually the best posters will disappear, either though being suspended or feeling uncomfortable with this procedure. Without the contributions of long term members, the forum would inevitably decline.

I think there may be better ways of dealing with infractions of the rules. But it needs to be recognised that there are grey areas, the fine line between the right to self-expression and attacks on other members. As someone suggested on another thread, a series of private warnings before permanent deletion would be a way of keeping order and retaining the goodwill of posters who have made valuable contributions. Trolls would be quickly eliminated in any case.

If you have any other ideas or suggestions, please share them.

I think there may be better ways of dealing with infractions of the rules

I fully agree. Death by means most foul ... it's the only sensible deterrent. It worked in the middle ages, and we've all become far less civilised since then. Besides, a painful death never hurt anyone ... you'll soon bounce back !

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

I agree that there needs to be some warning before going to the nuclear option of "you're suspended and you can't come back until you apologise". Maybe bv sees this as the warning stage, whereas from our point of view the person appears to have been banned - we see the same message in either case.

I think what upsets people is the feeling that years of intelligent and generous posting seem to count for nothing, and such posters can disappear overnight just as easily as some useless troll that nobody will miss. It doesn't help that we are not supposed even to ask where "X" has gone, when we may be understandably puzzled (as I was when René vanished for a while because of a simple misunderstanding). It's not just the absence of individual people - others become uneasy and wary about what they post, and can even feel uncomfortable enough to leave the board. This board has been a noticeably sadder and quieter place these last few weeks, and that is not good.

How about a three strikes and you're out rule?

I think the girls should rule this board

__________________________

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NICOS
I think the girls should rule this board

First warning,NICOS...

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Bliss
Most of us have noticed that three well-liked, very prolific posters--Honestman, Swiss, and Proud Mary--are no longer posting. This is apparently because they broke forum rules. BV has stated that they have not been banned; they have had their membership suspended until they apologise and presumably agree not to transgress the rules again.

In theory, this is actually a very generous policy. On some other forums, they would have have had their membership permanently deleted with no hope of return. But in practise, there are some unintended consequences. People aren't necessarily aware that their posts are breaking the rules, unless they are trolls who are simply here to cause uproar. Longstanding members who have contributed a lot to the forum and find themselves summarily excluded, even if temporarily, may be so humiliated, offended or upset at at being treated just the same as if they were a troll, they may choose never to return. This is a serious loss for them and for the forum. Eventually the best posters will disappear, either though being suspended or feeling uncomfortable with this procedure. Without the contributions of long term members, the forum would inevitably decline.

I think there may be better ways of dealing with infractions of the rules. But it needs to be recognised that there are grey areas, the fine line between the right to self-expression and attacks on other members. As someone suggested on another thread, a series of private warnings before permanent deletion would be a way of keeping order and retaining the goodwill of posters who have made valuable contributions. Trolls would be quickly eliminated in any case.

If you have any other ideas or suggestions, please share them.

I agree for the most part, but I disagree about the part about the troll. I don't know what an obvious troll is. I wrote a thread a few months ago, and objected to the use of the n word in an Exile song. There were numerous negative responses to this post, and one fan called me a troll. I was making a valid point that some naive, casual fan might interpret the n word as derogatory and racist. What are we to do? Should we limit ourselves to bland, colorless comments, or should we be allowed to express our opinions freely.

I agree that we should always be civil with one another, as we all, after all, are avid Stones fans.

>>I agree for the most part, but I disagree about the part about the troll. I don't know what an obvious troll is. I wrote a thread a few months ago, and objected to the use of the n word in an Exile song. There were numerous negative responses to this post, and one fan called me a troll. I was making a valid point that some naive, casual fan might interpret the n word as derogatory and racist. What are we to do? Should we limit ourselves to bland, colorless comments, or should we be allowed to express our opinions freely?

It is generally agreed that a troll is someone whose every post is inflammatory.

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shortfatfanny

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NICOS
I think the girls should rule this board

First warning,NICOS...

Think you are right shortfatfanny, I did hesitated a bit before posing, but as flilflam suggested should we stick only to "colorless comments"

__________________________

I don't see why apologizing to bv is so difficult. His board, his rules.

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dancingmisterd
I don't see why apologizing to bv is so difficult. His board, his rules.

You don't see why ..I am not surprised.

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SwayStones

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dancingmisterd
I don't see why apologizing to bv is so difficult. His board, his rules.

You don't see why ..I am not surprised.

Reported as offensive.

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shortfatfanny

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NICOS
I think the girls should rule this board

First warning,NICOS...

Good idea NICOS !


An iron fist in a velvet glove ....



I am a Frenchie ,as Mick affectionately called them in the Old Grey Whistle Test in 1977 .

Quote
Bliss
Most of us have noticed that three well-liked, very prolific posters--Honestman, Swiss, and Proud Mary--are no longer posting. This is apparently because they broke forum rules. BV has stated that they have not been banned; they have had their membership suspended until they apologise and presumably agree not to transgress the rules again.

In theory, this is actually a very generous policy. On some other forums, they would have have had their membership permanently deleted with no hope of return. But in practise, there are some unintended consequences. People aren't necessarily aware that their posts are breaking the rules, unless they are trolls who are simply here to cause uproar. Longstanding members who have contributed a lot to the forum and find themselves summarily excluded, even if temporarily, may be so humiliated, offended or upset at at being treated just the same as if they were a troll, they may choose never to return. This is a serious loss for them and for the forum. Eventually the best posters will disappear, either though being suspended or feeling uncomfortable with this procedure. Without the contributions of long term members, the forum would inevitably decline.

I think there may be better ways of dealing with infractions of the rules. But it needs to be recognised that there are grey areas, the fine line between the right to self-expression and attacks on other members. As someone suggested on another thread, a series of private warnings before permanent deletion would be a way of keeping order and retaining the goodwill of posters who have made valuable contributions. Trolls would be quickly eliminated in any case.

If you have any other ideas or suggestions, please share them.

OK,I'm back. I don't feel I did something offensive, like say Addicted who wanted punch me in the face when I said Keith doesn't need make clown of himself with this terrible cringeworth Pirates. But rules are rules and I accept it.
Shame swiss isn't here, I liked her posts very much

Good to have you back Proud Mary...just two more and all is well !

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dancingmisterd

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SwayStones

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dancingmisterd
I don't see why apologizing to bv is so difficult. His board, his rules.

You don't see why ..I am not surprised.

Reported as offensive.

Is this real? Is this the way the "reporting" game here goes? And soon someone is banned?

Bliss makes good points and I think the danger of this place finally dying out is a serious issue. There are signs of a decline. At least from a point of view of contributor like me. Losing swiss is a great loss, and I personally feel really disappointed for that. She must have done something truely horrible in order to being 'kicked out' since her posts had been the smartest, most polite, human and intelligent ones this board has ever seen. I can very well understand that she will not "ask for forgiviness" because I don't think she will see it 'right' from the angle of justice. There are more important principles in life, and sometimes if some contingent rules do violate them too much, there is no way to gave up your own sense of morality and justice. What the fate of swiss shows is that there is now something terribly wrong with the rules and customs - and the reporting system - if about the most civilized contributor here is banned.

- Doxa



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-12-30 19:51 by Doxa.

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proudmary

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Bliss
Most of us have noticed that three well-liked, very prolific posters--Honestman, Swiss, and Proud Mary--are no longer posting. This is apparently because they broke forum rules. BV has stated that they have not been banned; they have had their membership suspended until they apologise and presumably agree not to transgress the rules again.

In theory, this is actually a very generous policy. On some other forums, they would have have had their membership permanently deleted with no hope of return. But in practise, there are some unintended consequences. People aren't necessarily aware that their posts are breaking the rules, unless they are trolls who are simply here to cause uproar. Longstanding members who have contributed a lot to the forum and find themselves summarily excluded, even if temporarily, may be so humiliated, offended or upset at at being treated just the same as if they were a troll, they may choose never to return. This is a serious loss for them and for the forum. Eventually the best posters will disappear, either though being suspended or feeling uncomfortable with this procedure. Without the contributions of long term members, the forum would inevitably decline.

I think there may be better ways of dealing with infractions of the rules. But it needs to be recognised that there are grey areas, the fine line between the right to self-expression and attacks on other members. As someone suggested on another thread, a series of private warnings before permanent deletion would be a way of keeping order and retaining the goodwill of posters who have made valuable contributions. Trolls would be quickly eliminated in any case.

If you have any other ideas or suggestions, please share them.

OK,I'm back. I don't feel I did something offensive, like say Addicted who wanted punch me in the face when I said Keith doesn't need make clown of himself with this terrible cringeworth Pirates. But rules are rules and I accept it.
Shame swiss isn't here, I liked her posts very much

I agree.

These rules are for me enough:

1. Never report a fellow member, not even a 'troll': it's almost impossible and also quite witch-hunt-like and arbitrary to 'decide' if someone is a troll. Swiss and myself have been considered as one and the same person (we both felt flattered of course) and both of us have been accused of being trolls. Well, I didn't care, but swiss was very upset. Imagine, swiss being a troll, just absurd! So if you think someone is a troll, leave him/her alone and don't react and don't say anything about it. It's too childish anyway. And if a 'troll' has the power to "cause uproar" than WE are the fools and have to look at ourselves. Simple as that. So forget about the whole 'troll-question'.
2. Don't feel offended or insulted or otherwise feel it and let it go. It's no problem for yourself but a problem for the 'offender'. Feeling offended or insulted is sometimes okay. One get over it quickly. If not, you have a serious personal problem. And in some or even many cases no offence or insult was even intended! So forget about insults and offences.
3. So called 'quarrels' etc. are no problem at all. Normally they come and go very quickly. We're adults, aren't we? Nobody gets hurt after all and in the end there's always peace. We should more rely on ourselves.
4. Don't let yourself be provoked. And if so, count until 10 and think about how foolish you are. It really helps and in the end you're laughing about yourself!

A good board doesn't need any rules at all and regulates itself (an old Chinese wisdom).

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Doxa

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dancingmisterd

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SwayStones

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dancingmisterd
I don't see why apologizing to bv is so difficult. His board, his rules.

You don't see why ..I am not surprised.

Reported as offensive.

Is this real? Is this the way the "reporting" game here goes? And soon someone is banned?

Bliss makes good points and I think the danger of this place finally dying out is a serious issue. There are signs of a decline. At least from a point of view of contributor like me. Losing swiss is a great loss, and I personally feel really disappointed for that. She must have done something truely horrible in order to being 'kicked out' since her posts had been the smartest, most polite, human and intelligent ones this board has ever seen. I can very well understand that she will not "ask for forgiviness" because I don't think she will see it 'right' from the angle of justice. There are more important principles in life, and sometimes if some contingent rules do violate them too much, there is no way to gave up your own sense of morality and justice. What the fate of swiss shows is that there is now something terribly wrong with the rules and customs - and the reporting system - if about the most civilized contributor here is banned.

- Doxa

Not serious. Trying to show an example where people start name calling and the reports begin.

Can't we be civil with our posts? No name calling, no cattiness?

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SwayStones

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dancingmisterd
I don't see why apologizing to bv is so difficult. His board, his rules.

You don't see why ..I am not surprised.

The title of this thread is: Some suggestions for forum harmony ...

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Keep On Rolling

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proudmary
I don't feel I did something offensive, like say Addicted who wanted punch me in the face when I said Keith doesn't need make clown of himself

And yet you do feel the need to say something negative about another member of this board, which is against Bjornulf's rules.

Come On now daaaahhhhlin's, there must be a better way.
Just read the title of this thread again.

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Keep On Rolling

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dancingmisterd
No name calling, no cattiness?

Unless it is meant to be really nice

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Keep On Rolling

Why is SwayStones not surprised is the question

Seriously, I think we´re making a bigger deal of the banning than it is. It´s really just as simple as behaving nicely to fellow fans. IMO, it´s not about who started what - it´s about what YOU can contribute to this forum. When someone is banned, he/she will often feel that it´s unfair/other people should get banned, too etc. However, it will always come down to what YOU decide to do here at this forum.

There should be no need for calling names etc (BTW, I´m as "guilty" as anyone here...). We´re here because we love the Stones. Why should we run long threads about politics and similar matters which have nothing to do with the Stones? We know by experience what that will lead to.

If this board applies anarchistic "rules" I think it would get WAY rougher here, hence Bjørnulf won´t apply a brand new set of rules

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SwayStones
An iron fist in a velvet glove ....

Kinky, I like that

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Keep On Rolling

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Rolling Hansie

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SwayStones

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dancingmisterd
I don't see why apologizing to bv is so difficult. His board, his rules.

You don't see why ..I am not surprised.

The title of this thread is: Some suggestions for forum harmony ...

"I am not surprised " could be a good answer

I am done .

Wise words DandelionPowderman. But then of course you are one of the oldtimers here.

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Keep On Rolling

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DandelionPowderman
IMO, it´s not about who started what - it´s about what YOU can contribute to this forum.

Don't ask what your forum can do for you, but what you can do for your forum!

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SwayStones
Would you mind to edit your post Rolling Hansie

Which one ? Did I post something that offended you ? Very sorry then, but please tell me which post.

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Keep On Rolling

How about just removing the "post message"-button ? Would save both BV and us for a lot of hassle.