I mean, I understand if people are using flashlight all the time but why eg. at the Ronnie Wood concert were you not allowed to take pictures till almost the end of the concert? Nobody, except for a few people here, is intrested in those pictures. There are thousands and thousand of pictures of members of the Rolling Stones. So why?
Hint to the management: allow people to bring there camera's for a few € extra
They do that in some museums already I think.

Otherwise agencys and professional photographers couldn't make a buck with selling their pics.

Quote
Bimmelzerbott
Otherwise agencys and professional photographers couldn't make a buck with selling their pics.

Their pictures are better anyway...They can come where we can't
I'm talking about us, regular fans,...Me, sitting on the balcony and security telling me, very polite, to put my camera away. Just don't get it...it's just silly
Professional photographers are being paid anyway by the local newspaper or so..

Quote
Harm

Quote
Bimmelzerbott
Otherwise agencys and professional photographers couldn't make a buck with selling their pics.

Their pictures are better anyway...They can come where we can't
I'm talking about us, regular fans,...Me, sitting on the balcony and security telling me, very polite, to put my camera away. Just don't get it...it's just silly
Professional photographers are being paid anyway by the local newspaper or so..

Exactly. One can fully accept that the pros and the agencies need to sell their pics and make a buck, but then in all fairness - they do get particular access at gigs, namely the all important "proximity". They're right there 2 metres in front of the stage. I don't really see how someone snapping from the seating area, even with perhaps a decent SLR and a long focal length lens, can pose a serious threat in the "commercial context" to the kind of pictures that would be obtained by the pros down in the front of stage pit area. At some gigs security is pretty cool about it, but at others .... boy o boy they do get a bit over-zealous. And I would have to agree with Harm, for the kind of pictures you're liable to end up with, it's a bit unnecessary.

One thing that does strike me as truly bizarre is the near hysteria that some artists have about pictures being taken at their shows, I think that Prince falls into that category. I seem to remember that when he did the O2 residency, the premises were plastered from floor to ceiling with warnings about taking pictures, you were led to believe that taking a picture or two amounted to a "hanging offence". Really weird. What's the bloody deal here, for heavens sake ?

[ I want to shout, but I can hardly speak ]

I agree totally about pro's selling the pictures ,

What got me a bit riled is that I was at the Atlantic City show and I had one of those cheap little disposable Kodak cameras . The picture quality is pretty good but they do not take "professional photographs " . They would not allow me to bring it in but all those people with their cellphones taking pictures is OK .
What the hell is the difference the pictures are for an individuals use only in these cases . Really pissed me off .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-11-14 16:19 by boston2006.

I'm there to enjoy the show and people taking pictures I find is very distracting, esp when they block your view. Leave it for the professionals who have a disignated area to shoot from.

As long as they don't use those 300 up to 1000mm tele lenses these regulation are stupid, 90% of the pictures take at a concert you hardly can see any details.

But on they other hand I hate it when they make a picture of me without knowing.

__________________________

I think it's because it steals their souls, less photos leaves more soul intact ... I think James Brown started the trend.

...

Ultimate Rock Music Poll
[www.squidoo.com]

I always thought the fear was the pictures would be sold which violated some copyright or trademark agreement meaning the person you're taking pictures of would lose any compensation they would normally get.

Which I always thought was a poor excuse, I would imagine the overwhelming majority take them for their own enjoyment, not for profit.

Although I'd agree, the flashes are annoying...and do virtually no good in that setting.

I had a very good 35mm camera in high school and took some pictures at concerts, like Clapton, Stevie Nicks, Heart, Dylan, Crosby/Stills/Nash, etc., which I'd be happy to sell (just kidding!). But quit doing that, it was too much of a hassle avoiding security and getting good pictures, you ended up missing a good portion of the show and not enjoying it.

Quote
hutz13
I think it's because it steals their souls, less photos leaves more soul intact ... I think James Brown started the trend.

Hehehe - yeah, I think you're onto something.

The camera is a mechanical device which employs (1) a closed chamber with an aperture at one end through which light enters, usually focused by a lens, and (2) a photosensitive emulsion or electronic chip, which steals a piece of a person's soul. This theory was hypothisized by Running Donkey, a 29-year-old Native American. Because animals (such as kittens), plants (such as potatoes) and inanimate objects (such as Dick Cheney) also possess a soul... (with the exception of Dick Cheney), cameras can also record the spirits of non-human organisms and items as well.
[uncyclopedia.wikia.com]

in Paris some bouncer from a long way back made the trouble of wading through the crowd just to inform me to quit taking pics from my "vantage" point.
when he was gone i just took off my jacket and kept shooting, pfft.

it's the stones (and their management) who don't like it, other bands (and their managements) allow you to take pics.

Well...as a professional photographer, I wish I could give a definitive answer.

I've shot LOTS and LOTS of concerts as a paid pro and a few dozen as a fan of various bands.

These days it's tough to get credentials (a photo pass) as a pro...even if you have a
legitimate reason to shoot the show! You literally need the permission of the venue and
the band....and sometimes you practically have to sign away all rights to your first born child.

Compared to how it was in the 60's & 70's (from what I've heard), it's ridiculous. On top of that
the pros only get to shoot the first 2-3 songs and then they're (literally) ushered out of the venue.
There are exceptions of course...like if the band has specifically hired you to document the
tour, for album artwork..or for high profile music magazines.

Reasons for limiting pros.......everything from "too distracting" to the band & blocking view of
front row fans to... only the first few songs while the band is still looking fresh (not too sweaty) etc...
In general it is because they are very protective of their image. Not only HOW they look...but how
the image will be used.

(i didn't say it made sense...but that's usually one of the lines they feed you)

Most bands allow pros there for 3 songs...some for only ONE....and others not at all....not even for
the local newspaper photog or venue photographer. Pros are usually told where to shoot from.
Most commonly from "the pit" (area between stage & front rows), from the soundboard area...or
less frequently from the side (midway between stage & soundboard). All locations have certain
advantages. So...for the person that said shooting from the crowd is never as good as from
the pit...I beg to differ (sometimes).

Re: fan photography

These days I think it's a slippery slope. It could get out of hand very quickly.
Recently I've noticed that they've become more lenient. They still won't allow what they
call "professional equipment" (translation: SLR or DSLR w/interchangeable lenses), but because
of cell phone cameras etc... they are beginning to allow "point & shoot" cameras (non-interchangeable lens).

It's the photographer that creates the good pictures..not the camera...but a good camera helps.
There are some very nice amateur "point & shoot" cameras out there...that will give
very professional results (assuming you know how to use them properly)....after getting
denied several times with my pro DSLRs and long telephoto lenses, i picked up a little Sony
"point & shoot" w/Zeiss lens.

And then there are some times when the Band just doesn't mind!
The Black Crowes have a history of allowing photography & audio recording devices.
As a fan, I've always wanted to take my pro gear but never wanted to risk
having venue security try to take it from me...or send me back to my car...or kick me out all together...
so unless it is very clearly stated, (as a fan) I usually only take my little Sony "p&s"..and then kick myself
when I see others w/DSLRs.

While walking into the lobby of a Lindsey Buckingham show, they actually announced that
photography was permitted as long as you didn't use a flash. Ugh!! Of course this was not
known beforehand, but luckily I had stuck my wife's little Canon "point & shoot" in her purse
before we left..just in case. I was glad I did. With the announcement being "no flash"...don't know if
that meant only for point & shoots or if my pro gear would've been allowed too.

Re: flash photography at concerts....in my opinion it's pointless. No matter
how dim the lighting I will ALWAYS choose the stage lighting over a flash.....
.....so that restriction means nothing to me.

Re: the "fuss"

as i said, I don't have the definitive answer but....I saw many people get assaulted
by the "photo nazis" at the Steel Wheels shows I attended. Some people were
tossed out of the show during START ME UP! Of course...it may have been because
they were belligerent to the security guy too.

I suggest that if the security is really tough....wait til the final song or encore and then pull it
out & go nuts. What can they do? Kick you out? You've seen the show.

Also..sometimes they think they have a right to demand your camera memory card.
Keep an inexpensive dummy card in your pocket...and do a little slight of hand.
Not sure if they can legally take it from you but....

One more thing.....the next time you want to snap some pics of your favorite band (as a fan)
do a google image search or search on Flickr etc.... to see what other fans have posted.
If there's lots & lots of fan shots....good chance that the band has no problem with you clicking away.


IORR............but I like it!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-11-15 21:55 by sweet neo con.

Had a funny experience going to see the Stones in Paris last tour.
Had my camera in one pocket, minidisc recorder in the other pocket, clip mike stuffed down my sock.
Got to the security barrier, thought, "oh shit, game's over full body search going on". Took camera and minidisc recorder out of my pockets ready to hand over. The idiot guard said, "Ok, hold your arms up, fleeced me up and down not noticing the items in my hands!".
Punch line is, I didn't check the batteries, they were as dead as dodo's, so I couldn't use either.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-11-15 23:04 by turd.

The one and only time I took pictures at a concert was the one and only time I sat in the Front row for A Stones Concert, Boston 99 (Attended 42 since 75). I used a Disposable and they came out great because I was right there. Besides that I have no interest at all.

In MOST cases there is a misunderstanding between local concert security and a tour manager or head of artist security (if they have a head of security). Most artists reps do not care about point n shoots, I've learned from being in the business for 25 years that many local security have selective listening skills.

One show, local head of security for the theater was told "small personal digital cameras are fine...just no large video cameras"...that translated to "use metal detector hand wands at the door and ban all cameras.

Some local security will leave people alone (out of just being lazy) during a show unless they told directly and have patrons pointed at from a tour staff.

I have a simple rule I tell people if asked about a show camera policy. If it fits in your pocket and you are not using the flash every 15 seconds everything will be fine. If someone official kindly asks you to stop...then stop.

My advice as a fan is always have an extra memory card and an extra battery. Shoot like hell during the last song when most of the place is standing and blocking aisles.

Some artsits are militant about cameras and cellphone cameras. Worst in all my years is Neil Diamond. His people will hunt down old ladies 5 rows back using a cell phone to take a pic. Witnessed first hand.

Something up my ally. To add to what SNC said but going back to the 60's and seventies.

In the sixties most folks had crappy little snapshot cameras for starters. But there was not the pressure for photo rights. Now if I recall even at the 72 RS tour cameras were allowed as well as in 81. As a matter of fact I recall the stones using the cameras as a gimmick part of their light show. Just before the show (Seattle 81) they announce that the camera flashes distract the band and they would prefer if you limited your shots to the first song, very smart, 60 thousand folks running through a complete roll of film in the first song, quite the lightshow. What the public does not appreciate is the average flash was only good for 20 feet so it was a big joke anyway.

I like to play Rockford from time to time (TV detective that pretended to be other profetions), so I called a venue and just asked for a photo pass. They said the production company did that and they gave me the number. I called the production company and they asked what paper I was with, freelance I replied, sorry only newspapers. So if I was freelance it had to be under a major news paper. The first time I tried to get a press pass through a paper they said they were not interested, show was out of town, second time I tried it (The Who) the entertainment editor did not have someone going so he was pumped and he tried to convince the boss to let me go, boss correctly thought I had another agenda. The last time I tried it an old freind was the editor of a small island newspaper but the day I asked him he was qitting. He left a note saying if the Stones people called I was an emplyee and wanted on the list. I called every day up until 4 hours before the show when they informed me I missed it by 1, they only allowed the top six papers by circulation, mine was number 7, so close.

Now if my memory serves me well it was Mick`s business sence in regards to protecting merchandicing (posters, shirts) that became the first example of bands limiting access of cameras.

On a funny footnote about performers being botherd by flashes....I saw Roberta Flack this summer at a music festival. Twice she stopped at about dusk while she literaly threatened a guy for using a flash, no explanation just....I`ll come down there. Nobody could get what her problem was until at the point of it being totaly dark outside the lighting tech goes for some cool blue lighting and she stops playing saying she can`t read the lyrics. Then folks could see why she did not seem to be singing, but more reading her own lyrics.....very sad.

At a Pretenders concert, a guy in front of me brazenly climbed on his buddy's shoulders and took Chrissie Hynde's picture. Chrissie looked right at him and angrily wagged her finger.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-11-16 04:19 by Title5Take1.

I shot the Stones twice. 1989 and 1994 both with Photo Passes. There were at least 20 photographers each time. It was just for the first 2 songs starting right after the intro pyro. I can't remember who I was shooting for at the time, but it was fairly easy to get a pass for print publications.

A few of my memories of 100+ photo passes:

Alice Cooper let you shoot the entire 90 minute show w/ flash if needed (he did that for a few tours..allowing full show access)

U2 was always easy to get clearance.

Kiss wanted my film on the 1996 reunion tour. They had someone approve what shots could be used. I gave them shit rolls I fired off fast. I held onto the good rolls. Tommy Thayer (the Ace replacement) was the PR rep in 1996, I had to give him my film. It was agreed on before me entering the venue.

Acts that were the best to shoot were the Boy Bands like New Kids on Block, N Sync, Backstreet Boys, Iron Maiden (not a boy band but fun to watch) etc. Why? They have the best lighting and there is always something going on during 2-3 songs.

I've signed many photo releases and contracts. The only one that was very elobrate and they even made a photocopy of my drivers license was for the Dixie Chicks.

Dio's release in the 1980's when he sold out arenas wanted you to acknowledge that you were familiar with a Dio show and fully aware that there would be pyro ignited several feet from your head and they would not be held responsible if you got your head blown off.

I think the last release I signed was for guitarist Joe Bonamassa. They wanted a CD of your images and all rights to use them for whatever they want without any compensation. Their logic is that they are allowing you the right to photograph him and in exchange they own the images. I was testing out new gear that night, so nothing noteworthy came out of it.

Most stand-up comedians were tough to get clearance. Photogs are distracting...can't blame them.

Never issued passes: Bob Dylan, most RAP acts.

I got chucked out a Ginger baker show for taking pictures, how pathetic.

I've been taking very good quality Stones concert shots since 1975 and it's been a nightmare many times!! I have actually fought with the security Nazis, to the point where once I said that my camera was examined and allowed at the door, he walked away. I feel compelled to take pictures, just can't stop. I usually smuggle my 35mm in under tampons in my make-up pouch. The guards actually open the pouch, see tampons, lipstick etc and close it up, embarrassed as all HELL!! It usually works...once inside the real trouble starts because I use the flash; my pictures come out ten times better with it on. My Midnight Rambler shots are a testimony to this. With the flash and the red stage lights, the photos are great. Anyway, I think it's ridiculous to stop fans, and I agree with you BOSTON 2006, because they practically tackle ME but allow the cell phone cameras! DUH! What's the difference??
Who cares if someone makes a few bucks on a pro picture?? Don't the Stones have enough money to not get all bent out of shape over lost pennies? In the grand scheme of things and compared to their fortune, it amounts to squat! Pisses me off that they won't just say OK to picture taking.

Quote
NICOS

But on they other hand I hate it when they make a picture of me without knowing.

But Nico, are people really taking pictures of you all the time when you're at a concert? Are the flashing lights troubling your eyes then? You better should feel flattered, old chap.

.

HMN



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-12-05 15:17 by Honestman.

"I brought my camera just twice, and it was really a pain, lens hidden in my pants"
Bah pour éviter ça y a un truc simple : mettre deux slips! Comme ça le matos n'est pas en contact avec LE matos...
Trans : nice pix Honestman!

Didn't anyone get the impression of being at a press conference last Wednesday? So many camera's.

Quote
sweet neo con
I suggest that if the security is really tough....wait til the final song or encore and then pull it
out & go nuts. What can they do? Kick you out? You've seen the show.

This is good advice, I've done this many times. You need to be patient and wait to the end, while everyone's going crazy and the the thing is just about over - I've never had a problem then and It's better to just enjoy the show anyway...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-12-05 23:20 by Lynd8.

It's all about how money and big business have taken over. I have Great 35mm shots of Zeppelin from the 77 tour,Bowie from 76? (Station to Station) and very good movie film (super 8) from Zeppelin 75 and Stones 72 and 75 (all LA Forum shows I believe). Never got hassled about taking my equipment in.

By Dylan in the late 80's I had to sneak everything using my Girl Friends purse and the Camera Body with the strap going around her neck and under her bra in the cleavage area - ample "cup size" didn't hurt. Then she'd put on a bulky sweater - made me feel like Agent 86 - Maxwell Smart.

Now I don't know what they do, it's all too much of a hassle for me. Big Screen High Def TV and Blu-ray DVD's are the new concert thang I go to... no body pat downs (unless I'm doing the pattin' ") )

A Guns and Roses concert I attended where Axl got a little mad at a guy with a camera:

Hey guys, I suggest going to a DEVO concert. They allow you to take videos and pictures, and don't charge an arm and a leg for tickets!

Quote
MJG196
Hey guys, I suggest going to a DEVO concert. They allow you to take videos and pictures, and don't charge an arm and a leg for tickets!

what? they don't pay YOU to take pics a Devo show?
was this a serious suggestion?


IORR............but I like it!

Quote
MJG196
Hey guys, I suggest going to a DEVO concert. They allow you to take videos and pictures, and don't charge an arm and a leg for tickets!

Yeah, Well, there's musicians all over the Metro (subway/tube) tunnels in Paris and they also let you take their picture for free, no problem.... and the bonus kicker is most are much better than DEVO - what an effing deal !!!