Interesting - I think Glyn Johns was involved in the Keith moon track too...

Here you go Track 3 .......Bill Wyman...........Play It Loud





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Lynd8
Interesting - I think Glyn Johns was involved in the Keith moon track too...

perhaps he used the 'Glyn Johns Method' for micing drums on both.

[danalexanderaudio.com]

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NICOS
Here you go Track 3 .......Bill Wyman...........Play It Loud

Great, listening to this and Charlie's isolated track at the same time is amazing. Thanks!

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Beelyboy
oh my goodness. keith moon. holy furrgggginggg moly. jeezume crow. good golly miss molly. oooooh.

all fills all the time? not really. listen how solid and ON TOP of the BEAT he always is.... !!!!! tho ALWAYS punctuating BOILING all the time, exploding at will...
recorded so long ago but so well. wow! this is a gift. totally can't think of even what this thread is about this is too awesome....

He's solid and on top of the beat on this track Beely, but Glyn Johns has spoken about how difficult it could be to get Keith to play steady and in time through a whole song. I remember reading an interview where Glyn explained how he used to have to signal Keith by hand when a major change or something was coming up. Otherwise, he'd likely miss it and ruin the take, at least drum wise. In that interview, Glyn was speaking about Who's Next and Won't Get Fooled Again when talking about the hand signals. When to come in, and when to speed up or slow down if he was losing the time/beat.

Townshend too has spoken at how they struggled so much with Keith's playing, live and in the studio, and how there were things he wanted to do musically with the Who but couldn't, because Keith was rather limited in his abilities. He was great at playing like Keith Moon, but if it called for something different, not so much. A lot of the Who's songs were worked around Keith, and there were things Pete had to just not do because of him. And it wasn't always because he was too f-ed up. It was also because that's just how he was. Very erratic. When Keith was on, he could be a genius and the Who could reach another level some bands only dream of. But if he was off, well, it could be another story.

He wasn't much of a jammer either. There's a reason you don't hear stories of Keith sitting in with other people at after hours clubs and whatnot, like a lot of his peers. Part of it was he was more interested in booze and chicks than finding a post-show jam. But part was also because he wasn't the best at just sitting in with other players and jamming on whatever. He was too non-traditional a player to supply your basic solid beat for a jam session.

Having said all this, I also remember reading how critically claimed his drumming on Tommy was. Tommy was not the best sounding album, and it was really pieced together in areas. Many feel it was Keith's outstanding drum work that really brought and held the album together. I think he was also amazing on Quadrophenia. His playing on The Real Me, along with Entwhistle, is jaw dropping. The way those two work together on that song is incredible.

Keith and Charlie both are probably my two favorite drummers of all time.

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71Tele
When Charlie hits the big THUMPA-THUMPA and Keith plays that little lick, right before Mick starts singing "Ooh, the storm is threatening", the hairs on my arms stand up - even after all these years. Those few seconds are as good as anything ever put on record, imo.

Me too - literally! I also get full on, major goosebumps every time when Merry Clayton's voice breaks.

Thanks for posting this punkfloyd. As beelyboy says, it's like a person breathing. Who expects uniform breaths, particularly when something is unfolding that's as intense as Gimme Shelter, the way this recording went down?

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bustedtrousers
I think he was also amazing on Quadrophenia. His playing on The Real Me, along with Entwhistle, is jaw dropping. The way those two work together on that song is incredible.

My favourite Who album, infact for me that album is up there with the best of them, maybe even the best of the best when you just sit and listen to it... The writing, playing and production is excellent! Most importantly it's chock full of emotion!

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bustedtrousers

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Beelyboy
oh my goodness. keith moon. holy furrgggginggg moly. jeezume crow. good golly miss molly. oooooh.

all fills all the time? not really. listen how solid and ON TOP of the BEAT he always is.... !!!!! tho ALWAYS punctuating BOILING all the time, exploding at will...
recorded so long ago but so well. wow! this is a gift. totally can't think of even what this thread is about this is too awesome....

He's solid and on top of the beat on this track Beely, but Glyn Johns has spoken about how difficult it could be to get Keith to play steady and in time through a whole song. I remember reading an interview where Glyn explained how he used to have to signal Keith by hand when a major change or something was coming up. Otherwise, he'd likely miss it and ruin the take, at least drum wise. In that interview, Glyn was speaking about Who's Next and Won't Get Fooled Again when talking about the hand signals. When to come in, and when to speed up or slow down if he was losing the time/beat.

Townshend too has spoken at how they struggled so much with Keith's playing, live and in the studio, and how there were things he wanted to do musically with the Who but couldn't, because Keith was rather limited in his abilities. He was great at playing like Keith Moon, but if it called for something different, not so much. A lot of the Who's songs were worked around Keith, and there were things Pete had to just not do because of him. And it wasn't always because he was too f-ed up. It was also because that's just how he was. Very erratic. When Keith was on, he could be a genius and the Who could reach another level some bands only dream of. But if he was off, well, it could be another story.

He wasn't much of a jammer either. There's a reason you don't hear stories of Keith sitting in with other people at after hours clubs and whatnot, like a lot of his peers. Part of it was he was more interested in booze and chicks than finding a post-show jam. But part was also because he wasn't the best at just sitting in with other players and jamming on whatever. He was too non-traditional a player to supply your basic solid beat for a jam session.

Having said all this, I also remember reading how critically claimed his drumming on Tommy was. Tommy was not the best sounding album, and it was really pieced together in areas. Many feel it was Keith's outstanding drum work that really brought and held the album together. I think he was also amazing on Quadrophenia. His playing on The Real Me, along with Entwhistle, is jaw dropping. The way those two work together on that song is incredible.

Keith and Charlie both are probably my two favorite drummers of all time.

this so informative with such a grand 'inside' wide and wise perspective. learned a lot from you. yes keith on tommy a masterpiece. gives new appreciation for the patience and wisdom of townshend as composer/arranger with orchestral vision, but also as hands on producer dealing with the majesty and also, now that i'm learning this, the real liabilities in moon's approach to some of pete's ambitious work...anyway, really appreciate this post from u thank you.

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His Majesty

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bustedtrousers
I think he was also amazing on Quadrophenia. His playing on The Real Me, along with Entwhistle, is jaw dropping. The way those two work together on that song is incredible.

My favourite Who album, infact for me that album is up there with the best of them, maybe even the best of the best when you just sit and listen to it... The writing, playing and production is excellent! Most importantly it's chock full of emotion!

agreed, I think it's their best album overall, though the one drawback is taht Townshend's use of the synths is IMO not as interesting as on Who's Next.

yeh i think on whos next he finally really realized a lot of what had been going on his head...'amazing journey' in a way, pun intended. pete really deserves mega mega credit as pioneer with all that synthesis; sometimes we forget as the decades rush on...i mean when he was doing that sampling and repeating and enveloping the figures etc...on these now pre-historic looking mono moogs and whatever...in his studio...he, like edison, or hendrix, or zappa...really one of those complete einsteinien musical genius' ahead of everyone else in these areas. and then when they achieve something, it's slowly kinda absorbed into the general production conciousness of music makers generation after generation. but pete's usage of all that, yes especially fulfilling on baba o reilly and who's next stuff, is just a marvel imo.

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NICOS
Here you go Track 3 .......Bill Wyman...........Play It Loud

Sounds like direct injection. No sustain and very narrow coloration. They must have eq'd it when mixing.

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71Tele


Sounds like direct injection. No sustain and very narrow coloration. They must have eq'd it when mixing.

Pictures show that circa 1967 - 1969 atleast they tended to record bass with both di box and a mic, note there is mic bleed from Keith's guitar on this isolated bass track.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-08-24 21:10 by His Majesty.

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His Majesty

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71Tele


Sounds like direct injection. No sustain and very narrow coloration. They must have eq'd it when mixing.

Pictures show that circa 1967 - 1969 atleast they tended to record bass with both di box and a mic, note there is mic bleed from Keith's guitar on this isolated bass track.

Hmm, if there is amp tone there is almost no presence at all. Bill usually got a fairly meaty growl out of his amp. The guitar bleed may have been on the tape. Just my conjecture.

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71Tele


Hmm, if there is amp tone there is almost no presence at all. Bill usually got a fairly meaty growl out of his amp. The guitar bleed may have been on the tape. Just my conjecture.

Good point re the bleed...

The stones bass amp of choice circa spring 69 was a Hiwatt, mic and di shown, how they used it, anyone's guess.

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CBII

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Beelyboy

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71Tele

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stoneswashed77

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crumbling_mice
Excellent, be nice if some members of the bands around today listened to this and then they might just realise what rock drumming is all about.

if a drummer these days would play like this he would get fired or beat detective to death. not only the timing is too off for today but also some fills are stylistically not so nice. he could have done better, today they would edit better takes together.

Exactly why rock drumming today is so boring and predictable. He couldn't have done "better" at all, except in some weird world where technical exactness trumps feel. Personally I don't want to listen to music from that world. I'm glad we have this instead.

crumblingmice says "...today THEY (caps mine) would edit better takes together..."

etc...

surely so. who put the engineers in charge of the artists tho?
who put the button pushers into producer chair when they didn't make any of at the pre production meetings or necessarily "GET" what the artists are about and about to put down. i KNOW ur right mice. but just saying...a lotta bloodless crap pop music (including most of the fake rock music) these last hi tech years...
...they miss the heart and soul and of course worship great MOMENTS of PEOPLE PLAYING TOGETHER>>>> the tension, the impact of personalities and sounds and holding it together, reading each other...doin' what it takes to make it work TOGETHER. as this was meant to sound....
...i like the technology, but i will never ever let it get ahead of what the magic is...the magic is what it's ALL about...yes i record w click tracks dammit...everyone wants to be a nasa scientist instead of just STFU and wait and see if someone wants them to push a button...turn something on....a good engineer should know two things chiefly. how to make a good cup of coffee. how to listen (and/or shut up).

Take out the bit about making some coffee, I'd agree with every thing you just said. We are talking about music performed in the studio by people not cyborgs or terminators! Eddie Kramer was and is one of the best recording engineers out there to me. An old school guy that LISTENED to what was being done.

Charlie's drum track is excellent and real. The Swing and Jazz references are dead on target too!

thanks chuck2 !! it's just happened too many times to me since the 'digi revolution' for it to be an anomoly. the nerds are frustrated producers who do not want to (or possible don't have the perspective and sensitivity and experience) LISTEN Or find out watsup as much as start automatically 'cleaning' tracks VISUALLY in case there's a tiny line of bleed anywhere...they don't even ask. u have to hire someone to WATCH them, or distract them. seriously. a young woman with a low cut dress works everytime. they totally ignore u...she tells them 'oh he's a nut he always does it this way don't even talk to him...'
and she leans over admiring his gear and asking him about his life...
i mean this sounds like a joke, but i have been desperate enuff to do this more than once. it works.