Quote
whitem8
Brian pretty much abandoned his children. When told that he was an impending father he would drop the girl and run. By all accounts he seemed like a big jerk. Not a stellar personality with honor and respect.

Quote
whitem8
Eh, yes.

Quote
tonterapi

Quote
whitem8
Eh, yes.

Well, you believe what you want to believe. I believe the mothers of his children and people who actually knew him. They say otherwise and gives balance to the negative image people tend to have of him. Things weren't exactly black or white when it comes to Brian. He could be a jerk - but not a fulltime jerk.

Quote
whitem8

Quote
kleermaker

Quote
tonterapi

Quote
mickschix
I'd want to be Mick in 1965-66 because he was just starting to feel the real fame, learning his dance moves, perfecting the harmonica and coming into his own.
Now, as far as Brian is concerned, from a woman's perspective I have a hard time appreciating his talent because all I think of is his abusive behavior towards all of his girlfriends. It's well documented so I don't feel the need to be specific ( except his beating Anita ended up with her running to Keith) He was a short little prickish guy with a chip on his shoulder and because he knew enough not to pick a fight with the guys, he beat up on the women. Not the kind of man I can admire.

Brian's attacks on women was his worst side. But it's interesting to point out though that his violence against his girlfriends came with his drug problems and drugs can change people into the most horrible characters. Brian didn't have violent relationships with all of his women but Anita and Suki, who was with him during his bigger drug period, had to face that rage. It doesn't excuse his behaviour - but it gives an explanation. Just look at what drugs did to Ozzy Osbourne!

What I'm trying to say, and always try to say, is that the image we have of Brian Jones have been a pretty one sided thing for a long time and those stories doesn't always fit with each other. Biographies about the Stones always focus on his darkest hours and sometimes they seem to have exaggerated those times when comparing with other texts about him. Brian was certainly not innocent - but he wasn't a devil either.

Tonterapi, do you know how Brian was from a child's perspective? Those women could easily run away from him, but he had 5 children, if I'm right (which, imo, is not a very good sign, regarding Brian's age), and children can neither choose their parents nor really run away from them. So, do you know how Brian was as a father? That seems much more important to me, being a father of only one child myself (and also being a child of my parents, of course).

Brian pretty much abandoned his children. When told that he was an impending father he would drop the girl and run. By all accounts he seemed like a big jerk. Not a stellar personality with honor and respect. Again, Charlie seems to be the most gentlemanly stone... and strangely on member with a lot of power that often is over looked. He designs the sets, makes important tour information, is still with his wife of many years, dresses great! And doesn't spend lavishly (other than his suites and horses!). And a quiet but generous and honorable man. But he also had his fun! I would go for Charlie circa 71-73.

Quote
whitem8
I never said he was a full time jerk. But based on a lot of the books about the Stones there is little doubt that he did not spend time with his children and when a girlfriend got pregnant he dropped said girl friend like a hot potato...

Quote
neptune

Quote
whitem8

Quote
kleermaker

Quote
tonterapi

Quote
mickschix
I'd want to be Mick in 1965-66 because he was just starting to feel the real fame, learning his dance moves, perfecting the harmonica and coming into his own.
Now, as far as Brian is concerned, from a woman's perspective I have a hard time appreciating his talent because all I think of is his abusive behavior towards all of his girlfriends. It's well documented so I don't feel the need to be specific ( except his beating Anita ended up with her running to Keith) He was a short little prickish guy with a chip on his shoulder and because he knew enough not to pick a fight with the guys, he beat up on the women. Not the kind of man I can admire.

Brian's attacks on women was his worst side. But it's interesting to point out though that his violence against his girlfriends came with his drug problems and drugs can change people into the most horrible characters. Brian didn't have violent relationships with all of his women but Anita and Suki, who was with him during his bigger drug period, had to face that rage. It doesn't excuse his behaviour - but it gives an explanation. Just look at what drugs did to Ozzy Osbourne!

What I'm trying to say, and always try to say, is that the image we have of Brian Jones have been a pretty one sided thing for a long time and those stories doesn't always fit with each other. Biographies about the Stones always focus on his darkest hours and sometimes they seem to have exaggerated those times when comparing with other texts about him. Brian was certainly not innocent - but he wasn't a devil either.

Tonterapi, do you know how Brian was from a child's perspective? Those women could easily run away from him, but he had 5 children, if I'm right (which, imo, is not a very good sign, regarding Brian's age), and children can neither choose their parents nor really run away from them. So, do you know how Brian was as a father? That seems much more important to me, being a father of only one child myself (and also being a child of my parents, of course).

Brian pretty much abandoned his children. When told that he was an impending father he would drop the girl and run. By all accounts he seemed like a big jerk. Not a stellar personality with honor and respect. Again, Charlie seems to be the most gentlemanly stone... and strangely on member with a lot of power that often is over looked. He designs the sets, makes important tour information, is still with his wife of many years, dresses great! And doesn't spend lavishly (other than his suites and horses!). And a quiet but generous and honorable man. But he also had his fun! I would go for Charlie circa 71-73.

You guys are silly, except tonterapi. You guys don't get it. Brian Jones was a Rolling Stone. The original bad boy of the British Invasion! He was born to raise hell and he did, then dies at 27! Stop moralizing.

Quote
tonterapi

Quote
whitem8
I never said he was a full time jerk. But based on a lot of the books about the Stones there is little doubt that he did not spend time with his children and when a girlfriend got pregnant he dropped said girl friend like a hot potato...

Well, books about the Stones tend to portray Brian as the ultimate bastard. They never give the full picture but thankfully there are other sources as well. I usually recommend Laura Jackson's book about Brian. It's filled with quotes from people who knew him - including his women and it's a very interesting read. It gives balance to the envy, ruthless and decadent character that he is in most biographies about the Stones.
Another good book is Mandy Aftel's Death of A Rolling Stone if you can find it. It was published in 1982. She spent the 70's interviewing a lot of people including Keith who is surprising pretty even-handed about Brian. It catches a lot of people early on after his death (Keith, Stu, Alexis Korner, Christopher Gibbs, etc.) before memories went and so on. She was and is a psychotherapist and
she tries to explain his behavior, not excuse it. Good book.

Quote
Marie
Another good book is Mandy Aftel's Death of A Rolling Stone if you can find it. It was published in 1982. She spent the 70's interviewing a lot of people including Keith who is surprising pretty even-handed about Brian. It catches a lot of people early on after his death (Keith, Stu, Alexis Korner, Christopher Gibbs, etc.) before memories went and so on. She was and is a psychotherapist and
she tries to explain his behavior, not excuse it. Good book.

Quote
uhbuhgullayew
It would be good to be one of them......it would be good to be any of them.

Quote
tonterapi

Quote
Marie
Another good book is Mandy Aftel's Death of A Rolling Stone if you can find it. It was published in 1982. She spent the 70's interviewing a lot of people including Keith who is surprising pretty even-handed about Brian. It catches a lot of people early on after his death (Keith, Stu, Alexis Korner, Christopher Gibbs, etc.) before memories went and so on. She was and is a psychotherapist and
she tries to explain his behavior, not excuse it. Good book.

I've heard about Aftel's book for a long time but I haven't been able to get my hands on it. It's suppose to be very good. [/qu
It is very good. It has a lot of quotes. She says she walked up to Keith's house when he lived at Cheyne Walk and he was nice, but hesitant. Finding out she was sincere, he agreed. She interviewed him for four hours. She also talked to Brian's psychatrist after his drug busts and gives a copy of the profile handed to the courts after the 1968 busts. She's very even-handed. Being a psychotherapist, she doesn't judge. If you read between the lines a bit, she keeps going back to his childhood. Linda Lawrence has some things to say about his parents... The profile mentions his still strong resentment against his mother, who he feels rejected him and blatantly favored the sister, etc. Also talks about the drugs and their effect. It's available on Amazon..com.

Quote
Marie
It is very good. It has a lot of quotes. She says she walked up to Keith's house when he lived at Cheyne Walk and he was nice, but hesitant. Finding out she was sincere, he agreed. She interviewed him for four hours. She also talked to Brian's psychatrist after his drug busts and gives a copy of the profile handed to the courts after the 1968 busts. She's very even-handed. Being a psychotherapist, she doesn't judge. If you read between the lines a bit, she keeps going back to his childhood. Linda Lawrence has some things to say about his parents... The profile mentions his still strong resentment against his mother, who he feels rejected him and blatantly favored the sister, etc. Also talks about the drugs and their effect. It's available on Amazon..com.

Quote
tonterapi

Quote
Marie
It is very good. It has a lot of quotes. She says she walked up to Keith's house when he lived at Cheyne Walk and he was nice, but hesitant. Finding out she was sincere, he agreed. She interviewed him for four hours. She also talked to Brian's psychatrist after his drug busts and gives a copy of the profile handed to the courts after the 1968 busts. She's very even-handed. Being a psychotherapist, she doesn't judge. If you read between the lines a bit, she keeps going back to his childhood. Linda Lawrence has some things to say about his parents... The profile mentions his still strong resentment against his mother, who he feels rejected him and blatantly favored the sister, etc. Also talks about the drugs and their effect. It's available on Amazon..com.

To learn something about Brian, relevant quotes are your best friends. That's why I enjoyed Jackson's book so much.

I sounds interesting that Keith actually talked about Brian rather truthfully. We all know that Keith's emotional handling of Brian in later years has been to slander him and I honestly don't think he mean that deep inside. I wonder if somebody could make him open up today and reveal more?

I've read a lot of your posts and you are spot on!!! Very well said!!!