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dcba
Ronnie spilling the beans about his "pal"'s dirty secrets. Jo had already told the Paris hotel episode but she had carefully avoided any mention of IV injection.
Ron you just stabbed a mate in the back...
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His Majesty
Not wishing to put too much emphasis on it, but I do wonder if Brian's death resulted in an increase of heroin use.
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71Tele
I do not know when Keith started using. All I know is that the Keith of the Gimme Shelter film, Exile and the '72 tour is a different Keith than Black & Blue and the '75-'76 tours. Heroin makes you feel like you could walk on water at first. Then it does what it does. It is very fortunate that he was wealthy enough and lucky enough to not buy some bad stuff and off himself. Heroin addiction is, in the end, a very selfish journey. Yes, I wonder how long he was really into it and how he really got off it (or IF he really got off it completely). I don't know what to make of the conflicting stories. But Keith's bravura boasts of "I never had a drug problem, only a police problem" are just that -bravura. There is a moment of honesty in Exile when he talks about why he used (to get away from fame and people's expectations) but I seriously doubt that's the whole story. I also doubt whether is new auto biography will shed a lot of light on the issue.
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bustedtrousersQuote
71Tele
I do not know when Keith started using. All I know is that the Keith of the Gimme Shelter film, Exile and the '72 tour is a different Keith than Black & Blue and the '75-'76 tours. Heroin makes you feel like you could walk on water at first. Then it does what it does. It is very fortunate that he was wealthy enough and lucky enough to not buy some bad stuff and off himself. Heroin addiction is, in the end, a very selfish journey. Yes, I wonder how long he was really into it and how he really got off it (or IF he really got off it completely). I don't know what to make of the conflicting stories. But Keith's bravura boasts of "I never had a drug problem, only a police problem" are just that -bravura. There is a moment of honesty in Exile when he talks about why he used (to get away from fame and people's expectations) but I seriously doubt that's the whole story. I also doubt whether is new auto biography will shed a lot of light on the issue.
In Stanley Booth's True Adventures book he tells a story about Keith inviting him back to his room and doing heroin. He quotes Keith as saying he just does it occasionally at that point. So he must have started in 68 or 69. I think 67 is too early, because, I think, he still had that girlfriend then, forget her name, she was a model though, that did heroin, and supposedly flipped out when he became aware of her use of such heavy drugs.
I think it comes from Bockris's book, which I know means it should be taken with a liberal dose of salt, but he lays out a theory that says Keith bought Redlands with the goal of settling down with that particular girl, only to have her break his heart when he proposed to her. After that, he became a much harder, colder person who seemed resolved to not let anyone hurt him in such a way again. Harder drug use seemed to coincide/follow with this event.
I know since it's from Bockris it's supposed to be suspect, but his timeline adds up, things didn't end smoothly with that particular girl, and Keith did appear to be much more innocent and sensitive before that breakup. She was apparently his first serious love, and she supposedly crushed him.
After reading that, and other more reputable things since that I feel back it up, I've always felt that the heartache from that breakup led to his advanced drug-induced misadventures. It seems to have knocked him for a loop that triggered other things.
Just a theory though, who knows why such a seemingly smart individual as Keith would choose a path that involved heroin. He seemed to be more clever than that to me.
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71TeleQuote
bustedtrousersQuote
71Tele
I do not know when Keith started using. All I know is that the Keith of the Gimme Shelter film, Exile and the '72 tour is a different Keith than Black & Blue and the '75-'76 tours. Heroin makes you feel like you could walk on water at first. Then it does what it does. It is very fortunate that he was wealthy enough and lucky enough to not buy some bad stuff and off himself. Heroin addiction is, in the end, a very selfish journey. Yes, I wonder how long he was really into it and how he really got off it (or IF he really got off it completely). I don't know what to make of the conflicting stories. But Keith's bravura boasts of "I never had a drug problem, only a police problem" are just that -bravura. There is a moment of honesty in Exile when he talks about why he used (to get away from fame and people's expectations) but I seriously doubt that's the whole story. I also doubt whether is new auto biography will shed a lot of light on the issue.
In Stanley Booth's True Adventures book he tells a story about Keith inviting him back to his room and doing heroin. He quotes Keith as saying he just does it occasionally at that point. So he must have started in 68 or 69. I think 67 is too early, because, I think, he still had that girlfriend then, forget her name, she was a model though, that did heroin, and supposedly flipped out when he became aware of her use of such heavy drugs.
I think it comes from Bockris's book, which I know means it should be taken with a liberal dose of salt, but he lays out a theory that says Keith bought Redlands with the goal of settling down with that particular girl, only to have her break his heart when he proposed to her. After that, he became a much harder, colder person who seemed resolved to not let anyone hurt him in such a way again. Harder drug use seemed to coincide/follow with this event.
I know since it's from Bockris it's supposed to be suspect, but his timeline adds up, things didn't end smoothly with that particular girl, and Keith did appear to be much more innocent and sensitive before that breakup. She was apparently his first serious love, and she supposedly crushed him.
After reading that, and other more reputable things since that I feel back it up, I've always felt that the heartache from that breakup led to his advanced drug-induced misadventures. It seems to have knocked him for a loop that triggered other things.
Just a theory though, who knows why such a seemingly smart individual as Keith would choose a path that involved heroin. He seemed to be more clever than that to me.
Do you mean Linda Keith? Interesting...But then he got the girl he wanted - Anita - and they both proceeded to become junkies. Hard to know what happens deep inside the psyche of a person. He did seem to relish this kind of coldness after he took up with junk, but I have only read the same stories from Tony Sanchez, etc, that everyone else has.
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bustedtrousersQuote
71TeleQuote
bustedtrousersQuote
71Tele
I do not know when Keith started using. All I know is that the Keith of the Gimme Shelter film, Exile and the '72 tour is a different Keith than Black & Blue and the '75-'76 tours. Heroin makes you feel like you could walk on water at first. Then it does what it does. It is very fortunate that he was wealthy enough and lucky enough to not buy some bad stuff and off himself. Heroin addiction is, in the end, a very selfish journey. Yes, I wonder how long he was really into it and how he really got off it (or IF he really got off it completely). I don't know what to make of the conflicting stories. But Keith's bravura boasts of "I never had a drug problem, only a police problem" are just that -bravura. There is a moment of honesty in Exile when he talks about why he used (to get away from fame and people's expectations) but I seriously doubt that's the whole story. I also doubt whether is new auto biography will shed a lot of light on the issue.
In Stanley Booth's True Adventures book he tells a story about Keith inviting him back to his room and doing heroin. He quotes Keith as saying he just does it occasionally at that point. So he must have started in 68 or 69. I think 67 is too early, because, I think, he still had that girlfriend then, forget her name, she was a model though, that did heroin, and supposedly flipped out when he became aware of her use of such heavy drugs.
I think it comes from Bockris's book, which I know means it should be taken with a liberal dose of salt, but he lays out a theory that says Keith bought Redlands with the goal of settling down with that particular girl, only to have her break his heart when he proposed to her. After that, he became a much harder, colder person who seemed resolved to not let anyone hurt him in such a way again. Harder drug use seemed to coincide/follow with this event.
I know since it's from Bockris it's supposed to be suspect, but his timeline adds up, things didn't end smoothly with that particular girl, and Keith did appear to be much more innocent and sensitive before that breakup. She was apparently his first serious love, and she supposedly crushed him.
After reading that, and other more reputable things since that I feel back it up, I've always felt that the heartache from that breakup led to his advanced drug-induced misadventures. It seems to have knocked him for a loop that triggered other things.
Just a theory though, who knows why such a seemingly smart individual as Keith would choose a path that involved heroin. He seemed to be more clever than that to me.
Do you mean Linda Keith? Interesting...But then he got the girl he wanted - Anita - and they both proceeded to become junkies. Hard to know what happens deep inside the psyche of a person. He did seem to relish this kind of coldness after he took up with junk, but I have only read the same stories from Tony Sanchez, etc, that everyone else has.
Well, it's only a theory. I'm curious to know if there was a person who formally (haha) introduced Keith to heroin. Maybe I've read it somewhere, but if so, it's lost to the sands of time. Was it Anita?
I don't think Anita was Keith's ultimate goal, and I'm not saying that's what you meant, but from what I've read and remember, I don't think he had an Eric Clapton like love for the girl of one of his friends, I think it just happened. And if they hadn't of all taken that fateful trip to Morocco, and if Brian hadn't gotten physical with her, Keith and Anita likely would never of happened.
Linda Keith, that is correct, and his relishing of a certain kind of coldness after taking up with junk I think is part of the result of his break-up with her. But again, this is only what I believe to be the case, I'm certainly not trying to say it's the final word.
Going by the last of your post, I'm curious, have you read the True Adventures Of The Rolling Stones?
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JimmyPhelge
I was on heroin (in and off) for twenty years. Now I’m completely clean (from heroin, methadone, buprenorfine.. everything) from more than 2 months and I‘m feelin’ great and I want to stay clean, ‘cause I’m forty and I’m tired of all the shit that happens with the smack.
In my opinion Keith, in Rock an Roll Circus is an addict. He got the eyes.
Maybe it was an occasional user at the time but I can bet he was an user.
It is true: smack can make you walk on the water. I’m sure it didn’t interfere with the creative process for two or three years. But it comes the day you have to pay. And it’s an expensive bill.
Thanking god he did it and he’s still with us, but there is an enormous cemetery outside.
It’s terrible.
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71TeleQuote
bustedtrousersQuote
71TeleQuote
bustedtrousersQuote
71Tele
I do not know when Keith started using. All I know is that the Keith of the Gimme Shelter film, Exile and the '72 tour is a different Keith than Black & Blue and the '75-'76 tours. Heroin makes you feel like you could walk on water at first. Then it does what it does. It is very fortunate that he was wealthy enough and lucky enough to not buy some bad stuff and off himself. Heroin addiction is, in the end, a very selfish journey. Yes, I wonder how long he was really into it and how he really got off it (or IF he really got off it completely). I don't know what to make of the conflicting stories. But Keith's bravura boasts of "I never had a drug problem, only a police problem" are just that -bravura. There is a moment of honesty in Exile when he talks about why he used (to get away from fame and people's expectations) but I seriously doubt that's the whole story. I also doubt whether is new auto biography will shed a lot of light on the issue.
In Stanley Booth's True Adventures book he tells a story about Keith inviting him back to his room and doing heroin. He quotes Keith as saying he just does it occasionally at that point. So he must have started in 68 or 69. I think 67 is too early, because, I think, he still had that girlfriend then, forget her name, she was a model though, that did heroin, and supposedly flipped out when he became aware of her use of such heavy drugs.
I think it comes from Bockris's book, which I know means it should be taken with a liberal dose of salt, but he lays out a theory that says Keith bought Redlands with the goal of settling down with that particular girl, only to have her break his heart when he proposed to her. After that, he became a much harder, colder person who seemed resolved to not let anyone hurt him in such a way again. Harder drug use seemed to coincide/follow with this event.
I know since it's from Bockris it's supposed to be suspect, but his timeline adds up, things didn't end smoothly with that particular girl, and Keith did appear to be much more innocent and sensitive before that breakup. She was apparently his first serious love, and she supposedly crushed him.
After reading that, and other more reputable things since that I feel back it up, I've always felt that the heartache from that breakup led to his advanced drug-induced misadventures. It seems to have knocked him for a loop that triggered other things.
Just a theory though, who knows why such a seemingly smart individual as Keith would choose a path that involved heroin. He seemed to be more clever than that to me.
Do you mean Linda Keith? Interesting...But then he got the girl he wanted - Anita - and they both proceeded to become junkies. Hard to know what happens deep inside the psyche of a person. He did seem to relish this kind of coldness after he took up with junk, but I have only read the same stories from Tony Sanchez, etc, that everyone else has.
Well, it's only a theory. I'm curious to know if there was a person who formally (haha) introduced Keith to heroin. Maybe I've read it somewhere, but if so, it's lost to the sands of time. Was it Anita?
I don't think Anita was Keith's ultimate goal, and I'm not saying that's what you meant, but from what I've read and remember, I don't think he had an Eric Clapton like love for the girl of one of his friends, I think it just happened. And if they hadn't of all taken that fateful trip to Morocco, and if Brian hadn't gotten physical with her, Keith and Anita likely would never of happened.
Linda Keith, that is correct, and his relishing of a certain kind of coldness after taking up with junk I think is part of the result of his break-up with her. But again, this is only what I believe to be the case, I'm certainly not trying to say it's the final word.
Going by the last of your post, I'm curious, have you read the True Adventures Of The Rolling Stones?
Is that the one by Booth? No, I don't think so. Is it worth the read? I admit that my ideas on this subject are as much conjecture as anyone's. Very hard to figure out why some people (Mick Jagger, me, for example) can try things out without much difficulty and others become junkies/alcoholics. Part psychology, part brain chemistry, I suppose.
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swiss
I don't know if I completely understand the original question...is it how could Keith's heroin addiction both help and hurt his ability to be prolific and productive? how did he start and when did it turn south?
Well, I'm not 100% that this is correct but I believe it was Robert Fraser who turned Keith onto heroin. I thought the story was Keith was hanging out at Rbt Fraser's house in London during the filming of Performance because Fraser's house was down the block from the house where Performance was being shot. While whiling away the hours with Fraser before picking up Anita at the set, Keith tried snorting speedballs - heroin mixed with coke. Fraser, of course, was a heroin junkie already (see: Redlands bust). Keith "said" in one book or other he'd do speedballs while Anita and Mick were doing their thing on (and off ) the set, and he would furiously write the songs that would end up on Let It Bleed.
John Lennon said Robert Fraser turned him onto heroin. Incidentally, Yoko's art exhibit where John and Yoko met was curated and sponsored by Robert Fraser.
Anita has said in recent years she started shooting heroin during the filming of Performance.
btw...correct - Linda Keith was no stranger to drugs, and had more than a passing acquaintance with heroin. But, from what I recall, Keith objected to her drug use in general -- I don't think he singled out heroin, but rather how often she was fuckedup on one drug or other and not present in their relationship. As late as August 1966 Keith contacted Linda Keith's parents to tell them she was living a wild life in NYC with a bad sort buy the name of Jimi Hendrix and that they should go and fetch her and bring her back to England (which they did).
- swiss
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Tele71
Is that the one by Booth? No, I don't think so. Is it worth the read? I admit that my ideas on this subject are as much conjecture as anyone's. Very hard to figure out why some people (Mick Jagger, me, for example) can try things out without much difficulty and others become junkies/alcoholics. Part psychology, part brain chemistry, I suppose.
Oh my God, Yes! It's Booth's book, and it is extremely worth the read. If you haven't read it, you need to buy it and do so NOW!!!! It's arguably the best one ever written about the Stones. It's about two things, Brian Jones, and the 69 tour, which he lays it out in a very compelling and interesting way, especially the tour. He's there for everything, their stay in L.A. right before the tour, opening night, the Muscle Shoals sessions for Brown Sugar and Wild Horses (Jim Dickinson, who played piano on Horses, was Booth's buddy, and Stanley's the reason why he was at Muscle Shoals to begin with), and of course, Altamont. His first hand account of that show is harrowing, you really get the sense of how horrific it was.
He switches between the 69 tour and telling Brian's story, they both get their own chapters, in a back and forth way. I personally found the chapters on Brian a bit boring at times, but that's mainly because the ones about the tour are so damn interesting. It's so cool though the way he splits the two stories, and Brian's is bittersweet, especially his parents. Very sad the way they were left to pick up the pieces of their son's life and carry on. From Stanley's descriptions, they sound like very good, kind, and sweet people.
Tele, after all I've read on here from you, I can't believe you've never read this book. I'm telling you, if your as big a fan as your posts have led me to believe, you have to do so ASAP.
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bustedtrousers
Oh my God, Yes! It's Booth's book, and it is extremely worth the read. If you haven't read it, you need to buy it and do so NOW!!!! It's arguably the best one ever written about the Stones. It's about two things, Brian Jones, and the 69 tour, which he lays it out in a very compelling and interesting way, especially the tour. He's there for everything, their stay in L.A. right before the tour, opening night, the Muscle Shoals sessions for Brown Sugar and Wild Horses (Jim Dickinson, who played piano on Horses, was Booth's buddy, and Stanley's the reason why he was at Muscle Shoals to begin with), and of course, Altamont. His first hand account of that show is harrowing, you really get the sense of how horrific it was.
He switches between the 69 tour and telling Brian's story, they both get their own chapters, in a back and forth way. I personally found the chapters on Brian a bit boring at times, but that's mainly because the ones about the tour are so damn interesting. It's so cool though the way he splits the two stories, and Brian's is bittersweet, especially his parents. Very sad the way they were left to pick up the pieces of their son's life and carry on. From Stanley's descriptions, they sound like very good, kind, and sweet people.
Tele, after all I've read on here from you, I can't believe you've never read this book. I'm telling you, if your as big a fan as your posts have led me to believe, you have to do so ASAP.
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71TeleQuote
bustedtrousers
Oh my God, Yes! It's Booth's book, and it is extremely worth the read. If you haven't read it, you need to buy it and do so NOW!!!! It's arguably the best one ever written about the Stones. It's about two things, Brian Jones, and the 69 tour, which he lays it out in a very compelling and interesting way, especially the tour. He's there for everything, their stay in L.A. right before the tour, opening night, the Muscle Shoals sessions for Brown Sugar and Wild Horses (Jim Dickinson, who played piano on Horses, was Booth's buddy, and Stanley's the reason why he was at Muscle Shoals to begin with), and of course, Altamont. His first hand account of that show is harrowing, you really get the sense of how horrific it was.
He switches between the 69 tour and telling Brian's story, they both get their own chapters, in a back and forth way. I personally found the chapters on Brian a bit boring at times, but that's mainly because the ones about the tour are so damn interesting. It's so cool though the way he splits the two stories, and Brian's is bittersweet, especially his parents. Very sad the way they were left to pick up the pieces of their son's life and carry on. From Stanley's descriptions, they sound like very good, kind, and sweet people.
Tele, after all I've read on here from you, I can't believe you've never read this book. I'm telling you, if your as big a fan as your posts have led me to believe, you have to do so ASAP.
OK, I'll pick it up. I just don't know if I can get through the whole Altamont thing again, though. Very depressing. But it sounds like a book I have to read. Thanks.
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71Tele
OK, I'll pick it up. I just don't know if I can get through the whole Altamont thing again, though. Very depressing. But it sounds like a book I have to read. Thanks.