I'm thinking of how interesting this period of the Stones really is. Why don't we talk about it more?

Jet Set Mick turns slightly punk as The Sex Pistols were all the rage.

The influences from Punk really brought the Stones back to straight rock.

If this new wave in the music biz didn't happen I wonder what the Stones next record after B&B would have sounded like since every album had gotten progressively worse.

I don't think Kieth liked the Punks or the Music, but I do think at this time in their career he didn't mind playing straight out rock. And as always Keith rises to the occasion w/ some of his best riffs, leads, playing and singing.

Mick always has ear out for anything new so to stay w/ fashion I think he really absorbed the times and the energy, all the disco, punk,etc.. ( as every great writer does) and help turn it all into Some Girls.

Some Girls what an amazing album.

And the new boy Ronnie Wood! Big shift in the music.

The huge drug bust and media frenzy of Keith.

It would be amazing to make this a great post about the times, the music, the stones, influences, drug bust, lyrics, guitar playing...I don't we really got into this.

"Well my heavy throbbers itchin' just to lay a solid rhythm down"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-06-21 08:03 by Marhsall.

Great resurgence for the Stones. The three albums preceding Some Girls were decreasing in quality and energy. then there was the Toronto bust. They only managed five real new Jagger/Richards songs for Black & Blue (not counting Hey Negrita and Melody, which were "inspired by" Ronnie and Billy Preston, respectively). Some Girls arrived with a breath of urgency and more importantly - a feeling of fun. It captured the punk ethos that was happening, but also disco in Miss You. It brought the Stones up to date, without having them sound like they were straining to keep up with contemporary popular music (that happened later). For me, 1978 was about Some Girls, Springesteen's Darkness On The Edge Of Town, and seeing Dylan for the first time. Great year.

Good point bout the band actually being a part of and creating a new sound, music, style etc....instead of trying to be "like" the sound.

It stead of starting the trend they follow it now..

off the topic a little when do you think they "tried to be hip" 89 & steel wheels but that's just my opinion.


I wonder how much at the time Mick was into punk ?

I know Mick steered the band this way, of course, but how great would it have been to be a fly on the wall between Mick and Keith as to the what the next album after B&B was going to be like. Or was Keef too out of it w/ smack?

"Well my heavy throbbers itchin' just to lay a solid rhythm down"

I wonder how much at the time Mick was into punk ?



Some interesting comments here :

[www.iorr.org]

<They only managed five real new Jagger/Richards songs for Black & Blue (not counting Hey Negrita and Melody, which were "inspired by" Ronnie and Billy Preston, respectively>

The word "managed" is pure speculation, as they had several Jagger/Richards-written songs from that period to choose from. Some of them turned up on Tattoo You.

"I don't think Kieth liked the Punks or the Music"

This is wrong, Keith hung out in NYC with Richard Lloyd (Television)and Cheetah Chrome (Dead Boys) during the punk rock period and played with the Dead Boys at CBGBs. Keith has also been positive about the Ramones, Iggy and The Clash in the past.
Depends what you mean by punk though, all those mentioned were great rock n roll bands, i doubt Keith had much time for Sham 69 and Cock Sparrer LOL

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SwayStones
I wonder how much at the time Mick was into punk ?



Some interesting comments here :

[www.iorr.org]

Mick with the vivienne westwood destroy shirt, 100% punk!

summer of 78 was a very good time to be a stones fan. was dj'ing on a top40ish radio station in those days and i could do my job and get my stones fix all at once...

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steffiestones

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SwayStones
I wonder how much at the time Mick was into punk ?




[www.iorr.org]

Mick with the vivienne westwood destroy shirt, 100% punk!

I dislike both of them .Neither the t-shirt-even with "destroy " wrote on it ,nor the trousers.

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DandelionPowderman
<They only managed five real new Jagger/Richards songs for Black & Blue (not counting Hey Negrita and Melody, which were "inspired by" Ronnie and Billy Preston, respectively>

The word "managed" is pure speculation, as they had several Jagger/Richards-written songs from that period to choose from. Some of them turned up on Tattoo You.

OK, true. But they still only turned up with a grand total of five on the B&B album, even if there were more to choose from. Seemed meager at the time.

Anyone know what the Glimmer Twins thought of the Sex Pistols?

any quotes etc....

"Well my heavy throbbers itchin' just to lay a solid rhythm down"

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steffiestones

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SwayStones
I wonder how much at the time Mick was into punk ?



Some interesting comments here :

[www.iorr.org]

Mick with the vivienne westwood destroy shirt, 100% punk!

Now I know where Spinal Tap got the idea for foil-wrapped cucumbers and armadillos in their trousers.

Looks like a coke can in there! Hehe...

But back to the topic,

A lot of Some Girls is influenced by punk
esp.. Lies & Respectable.

Also, I've always been intrigued by B.T.M.M.R. And how is sounds completely diff from the over all sound from the rest of the album.. wasn't Kimsey behind the controls on this one ?

"Well my heavy throbbers itchin' just to lay a solid rhythm down"

BTW - Anyone have a Fav. Pistol song?
I love "Submission" & "Holidays In The Sun"

"Well my heavy throbbers itchin' just to lay a solid rhythm down"

Unpublished fanzine article by Gary Robertson and Nico Zentgraf circa 1986:


Ten years ago, the Punk Rock movement started, its aim was to destroy the establishment and to set up a state of anarchy. The Rolling Stones were among the supergroups, having proven their power after completing their 1975/76 World Tour.

On one hand it wasn't surprising the anger of the punks concentrated on the Stones: They had wide appeal, lots of money and led the life of the jet-set rich. On the other (musical) hand - that's the contradiction - they tried to imitate them. Keith comended in an interview: "Many of the English Punk records sound like our early records, and that sound is very hard to achieve nowadays. But it seems to be the sound many of them are aiming for. We did them on a 2-track Revox in a room insulated with egg cartons at Regent Sound. Under these primitive conditions it was easy to make this kind of sound, but hard to make a much better one. Today the new bands have to work against environment, sophisticated technology, 24-track studios."

Mick became a target for Punk anger ("Mick Jagger, white nigger" - Eddie Tenpole in the theme song from The Great Rock'n Roll Swindle, co-written by Julien Temple), despite the fact that Malcolm McLaren's previous discovery, The New York Dolls, had a Jaggeresque singer. How Keith got involved in the crossfire was never made clear. "The Eternal Punk" (headline of German magazine Tip in 1983), "The World's Most Elegantly Wasted HUman Being" and on top of the NME's "Most Likely To Die"-chart for years (of course he outlived Malcolm Owen, Sid Vicious, Ian Curtis and most of the Pretenders).

There were "Keef"-lookalikes like Mick Jones from The Clash and Ceeb Meador from The Werewolves. The Ruts even put him on the cover of their '79 album THE CRACK, where he stands in a party scene, glass in hand. On the less "mainstream" Punk side - The Sex Pistols and their fans hated him. Malcolm McLaren even ridiculed him in the Sex Pistols' movie The Great Rock'n Roll Swindle when he proudly boasted how Pistols guitarist Steve Jones broke into Keith's house in London and stole a color TV, fur coats and some guitars. Sid Vicious - whose actions always meant more than his words - was a little less subtile: "I wouldn't piss on Keith Richards if he was on fire", fortunately he never had a chance to prove his point.

All of these attacks were aimed at The Glimmer Twins, the rest of the band seemd unscatued. Perhaps the fact that Bill, Charlie and Ronnie kept their private lives and opinions out of the popular press made them less viable targets.

For instance Johnny Rotten claimed that he slammed the door of McLaren's "Sex"-boutique in Jagger's face, Mick said it wasn't true. In 1979 Rotten would say in an interview that the Rolling Stones were a distraction, something he don't want his music to sound like.


Inside the Rolling Stones there was a lot of friction between Mick and Keith. Mick seemed to really like the new movement with its fresh approach, power and rawness. In a story in Barbara Charon'es book, during the SOME GIRLS-sessions in November 1977, Mick came into the studio and tried to imitate the Punk rockers by yelling and dancing like a lunatic. Keith wasn't impressed: "I don't think that Bowie or Johnny Rotten or all the Zeppelins are anywhere in the future let alone the present. Jagger believes Punk is today, is now... For a band of the Stones position to do that would have been ludicrous. It's fatal for the Stones to try that. What the @#$%& do we want to sound like the Sex Pistols for? What's the point of listening to that shit? It's for mass media consumption anyway."

In 1978 the SOME GIRLS-LP showed a new style and re-evaluation of the past. "When The Whip Comes Down", "Shattered" ("Dressed in plastic bags... some kind of fashion"), "Lies", and especially "Respectable", all show the Punk influence with their rawness and simplicity. The Stones had never changed and the world had finally caught up with them. "Talking heroin with the president." Or even Marijuana with Canada's First Lady? The Stones had destroyed a politician without trying, something Punk with all its promises of anarchy was unable to do. People were spitting on the Stones in 1964, many Punk bands were offering money for anyone who'd kill himself on stage. It had already been done in 1969, albeit unwittingly.


On the Rolling Stones 1978 Tour the band also showed new influences. They played slightly shorter shows in smaller arenas. The backing musicians were nearly gone, as were the more self indulgent and dated songs. The "No Dinosaur Rock Policy" putted the Stones back on the street ("When The Whip Comes Down") instead of being the painted gods with flowery stages and other parts of their mid-seventies excesses.

They also gained a new generation of fans. To them the Stones were SOME GIRLS and EMOTIONAL RESCUE, or even more proper the songs "Miss You" and "Emotional Rescue". Their other albums seemingly recorded by a different band (which is in some ways true as Ron Wood began to influence the sound). Some of these new fans that had put them down, beginning to mellow as New Wave became the "in" thing.

One year after SOME GIRLS The Clash released their double album LONDON CALLING. Critics hailed it as the best double album since EXILE ON MAIN ST, especially for its variety of styles, rawness and the all-out quality of the music. The Clash would always be compared to the Stones, although they never managed to maintain the momentum into the eighties.

Despite Keith's cynism ("First they should learn to swear") it seems the Stones and Punk influenced each other, although some of them didn't like it to be compared. So Bob Geldof of the Boomtown Rats after he was compared with Mick Jagger one more time: "People said it and it has always pissed me off."

Maybe if Keith had not beenso busy with his own problems with drugs and trials he could have observed the scene better and absorbed the better part of the Punk music into the Stones sound as he did with Reggae. Now it must be said that Keith has used Punk to produce songs like "Hold Back" and "Dirty Work". As Mick once said, despite of his money he was still a Punk because it was the attitude that counted. This must include Keith if only for his classic comment - "If you're going to kick authority in the teeth you might as well use both feet."

In October 1978 Keith shared the headlines of the mass media. Keith was on trial in Toronto while Sid was accused of murdering his girlfriend and attempting suicide in New York. Keith made ironic comments about this ("He's trying to steal my headlines") but was a little more serious after Vicious was accused of killing Nancy Spungen: "Not only is murder considered a lesser crime, but in another country they couldn't be extradited but they could for what I've been charged with. To think someone couldn't be extradited for mass murder. Ridiculous? You tell me." In the end Keith got the lighter sentence. Mick offered help to Sid Vicious, but McLaren told him to shove it.

And with it the end of the Sex Pistols and Punks story. Now its power and influence are almost forgotten in a deluge of blande music, cover versions and re-releases (in the UK at least). But it did a lot good at the time.



Results



Sid Vicious died and became a Punk martyr, as Brian Jones was to many of the sixties generation. Keith Richards emerged a winner. He went on tour with The New Barbarians whose line-up included Ian McLagan (from the Small Faces pop group) who was also a member of former Pistol Glen Matlocks Rich Kids. When the New Barbarians played at Knebworth members of the Sex Pistols and the Clash were spotted in the audience by the music press. When asked if they were there to see the main band Led Zeppelin, they laughed. They were there to see one person. Sometimes the New Barbarians sounded more chaotic than any Punk band ever.


The Stones made many three-chord songs in the late seventies such as "When The Whip Comes Down" (two chords!) and "Summer Romance". The Punks in return did cover versions of Stones songs like "Citadel" by The Damned, "Satisfaction" by The Residents and also by Devo, "Tell Me" by The Dead Boys (led by Stiv Bators, a big Keith Richards fan), "Gimme Shelter" by The Sisters Of Mercy, etc


The Stones were a "Street" Rock band again, but they were also a Punk band in the beginning. Take an earful of the Honolulu gig in 1966. It's pure Punk!


Johnny Rotten became Johnn Lydon and made a fortune (not least by sueing McLaren). Mick Jones left The Clash and makes dance music featuring dialogue from a film starring Mick Jagger. Julien Temple made videos for The Kinks and The Rolling Stones. Not forgetting the unreleased Mick Jagger video-movie Running Out Of Luck, and Mick likes his Sid Vicious video "My Way" very much. Temple has since taken his Great Rock'n Roll Swindle ideas (exploiting youth with fashion and music) and remade them into Absolute Beginners. Malcolm McLaren tried to make a success by fusing Punk with Afro-rhythms, made music to skip, Breakdance and even Opera-Pop. He was always compared with Andrew Oldham and disappeared in obscurity just as fast. Keith said McLaren had things half baked, and he was right. "@#$%&'" Andrew made a few dollars as manager of a Punk band called L. A. Trash, that did a Stones cover version.


The Rolling Stones survived! They also beat New Wave, Heavy Metal, Futurist, New Romantics, Gender Benders, The Who, Led Zeppelin, Adam Ant, The Thompson Twins and last and certainly least Wham!

GREAT POST!!!!!!!!

"Well my heavy throbbers itchin' just to lay a solid rhythm down"

Talking about the Stones in the "punk" era, I recall reading that The Patti Smith Group opened for the band early in that tour. Now there is an opportunity "to compare and contrast" a punk band and a band playing its version of the style. I wonder how Jagger felt about THAT opening act?

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The GR

The Rolling Stones survived! They also beat New Wave, Heavy Metal, Futurist, New Romantics, Gender Benders, The Who, Led Zeppelin, Adam Ant, The Thompson Twins and last and certainly least Wham!

They even beat themselves.

Mick Jagger & Keith Richards (1977): Punk rock

Mick: We're the best punk band of all.

(T)here's a lot of clothes shops in the Kings Road, dear, and I've seen 'em all come and go. Nobody ever slams the door on me in the Kings Road. They all know I'm the only one who's got any money to spend on their crappy clothes. Though even I would draw the line on spending money on torn t-shirts!

(T)o tell the truth... I mean, I've never really liked what goes for white rock and roll, you know. Never ever, come to that. Speaking as one white person to another (smirk)... No, I just can't dance to it. I find it very, very difficult to dance to white people playing 'cause they get all the accents wrong. It's not even that it's too fast, it's just that all the accents are in the wrong places, you know. I mean, I've ALWAYS felt like that about white rock - from Elvis to the Sex Pistols - and I'm not going to stop thinking that way because of any new band, you know.

(If Johnny Rotten says I should have retired in 1965), then he should definitely retire next year. He was on Top of the Pops in England and that was a cop-out for the Sex Pistols. It's difficult for Americans to know what Tops of the Pops means, but it's the only pop music show on television - and I do mean pop - and the only place for Top Twenty Records and it's the most banal - it's aimed at a real teeny market, people with clean hair and all that... Now they're on the front of the Rolling Stone. That's a real cop-out. If I was Johnny Rotten, I wouldn't do either. I wouldn't do Top of the Pops and I'd tell Rolling Stone to go @#$%& themselves...

I don't care what Johnny Rotten says. Everything Johnny Rotten says about me is only 'cause he loves me 'cause I'm so good. It's true (grins)... (H)e says all (these) nasty things about me. I know that he feels he has to because I'm, along with the Queen, you know, one of the best things England's got. Me and the Queen. (smirks) Anyway, I wouldn't do those things he's doing 'cause in a year the Sex Pistols are gonna be phffft! Cause things happen much quicker these days.

No matter what Johnny Rotten and Sid Vicious do, they can't be more disgusting than the Rolling Stones are in an orgy of biting... I think even Sid Vicious is basically a nice guy, but Johnny Rotten keeps talking bad about me. He'll get his rotten teeth kicked in one day.

Keith: I don't think that Bowie or Johnny Rotten or all the Zeppelins are anywhere in the future let alone the present. Jagger believes punk is today, is now. To think you've got to somethign new just for the sake of doing it isn't real. It's the equivalent to when a lot of Dixieland bands added electric guitars, calling themselves R&B just to stay up with the times. For a band of the Stones' position to do that would have been ludicrous. It's fatal for the Stones to try that. Why the @#$%& do WE have to try to sound like the Sex Pistols for? What's the point of listening to that shit? It's for mass-media consumption anyway.

"Well my heavy throbbers itchin' just to lay a solid rhythm down"

No question about it, punk rock energized the Stones of the "Some Girls" era -- maybe even scared them into trying harder.

Songs like "When the Whip Comes Down" were inspired by punk rock. And "Hang Fire" even had Mick Jagger singing in a cockney accent as a nod to English punk rockers.

I was right in the thick of it in 1977 and 1978. I even lived in London in 1978.

The amazing thing to me is how the punk rock aesthetic continues to dominate after all these years. People are still wearing black and being angry. Frankly, I'm a little bored by it after 32 years.

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71Tele
Great resurgence for the Stones. The three albums preceding Some Girls were decreasing in quality and energy. then there was the Toronto bust. They only managed five real new Jagger/Richards songs for Black & Blue (not counting Hey Negrita and Melody, which were "inspired by" Ronnie and Billy Preston, respectively). Some Girls arrived with a breath of urgency and more importantly - a feeling of fun. It captured the punk ethos that was happening, but also disco in Miss You. It brought the Stones up to date, without having them sound like they were straining to keep up with contemporary popular music (that happened later). For me, 1978 was about Some Girls, Springesteen's Darkness On The Edge Of Town, and seeing Dylan for the first time. Great year.

71Tele you summed up Some Girls perfectly here.