Apologies if this has been asked before, but I'm not sure I could pick out Brian Jones on any songs during his era. On what songs can I hear him play a riff or something? Doesn't he do the slide on No Expecations?

Try "The Last Time", for starters...

i'm not sure what the question really is but this is a good start....









[www.dailymotion.com]

[video.mail.ru]

and this













on all of these you can visually see brian playing his part

Sitar on Paint it Black. I did not see first video was Paint it Black. Recorder on Ruby Tuesday.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-06-17 05:21 by steve1950.

It is pathetic and cruel what MJ and KR did to him during BB sessions.................have you seen the film by jean Luc Godard? Brian is playing wildly an acoustic guitar but no sound comes from him........
Maybe it was a consecuence of his personal problems, but is cruel to switch off his microphone

.............Wolf whistles on Walkin' The Dog ....



ROCKMAN

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KeithNacho
It is pathetic and cruel what MJ and KR did to him during BB sessions.................have you seen the film by jean Luc Godard? Brian is playing wildly an acoustic guitar but no sound comes from him........
Maybe it was a consecuence of his personal problems, but is cruel to switch off his microphone

They seem to ignore him, treat him as irrelevant. With the inevitable loss of self esteem I guess it was a losing battle for him. With his contributions being sidelined he could have just left the Stones in 1968 and done something else. What, I don't know..but I guess with his talents and connections he could have forged his own music career, perhaps collaborating with other musicians and composers etc.

Then again if he had just got on with being a good musician in the band, like Bill and Charlie, then he might have done ok and been more relevant and useful to the band. With either scenario he would have had to have his head together..this was the problem though.

I do wonder if he'd have stayed with the Stones (and had lived), how would the band have functioned? Although Brian was a good blues guitarist he hadn't developed his playing along the lines of Taylor, Clapton and other guitarists of the late 60s. How would the Stones have functioned with a Robert Johnson style guitarist in the 70s and beyond?

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WeLoveYou
With the inevitable loss of self esteem I guess it was a losing battle for him.

...I'm pretty sure that, by that time, he mostly lost 'awareness'...
And I'm realy wondering weither he ever really hàd some genuine self-esteem?!
Plenty of atitude, though; thats for sure.

Oh well- sure enough a guy that had plenty to offer. Sad loss!

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KeithNacho
It is pathetic and cruel what MJ and KR did to him during BB sessions.................have you seen the film by jean Luc Godard? Brian is playing wildly an acoustic guitar but no sound comes from him........
Maybe it was a consecuence of his personal problems, but is cruel to switch off his microphone

The same goes for RnR Circus. They pretty much ignore him during the show and his amplifier is barely audible except on No Expectations. I guess that they really wanted him to understand that he wasn't needed anymore.

But the story of Brian's time in the band isn't pretty. Brian did his fair share to keep anger the others and they did their best to make him feel worthless. He was a fragile soul to begin with and his loveless upbringing made him difficult at times. Doing drugs was the biggest mistake a man with his persona could do.
That said, the rest (mostly Mick and Keith) did act like first-class a-holes to him and I can't understand how you could treat a member of your band like they did
- especially when you know that the guy feel like crap.

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tonterapi

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KeithNacho
It is pathetic and cruel what MJ and KR did to him during BB sessions.................have you seen the film by jean Luc Godard? Brian is playing wildly an acoustic guitar but no sound comes from him........
Maybe it was a consecuence of his personal problems, but is cruel to switch off his microphone

The same goes for RnR Circus. They pretty much ignore him during the show and his amplifier is barely audible except on No Expectations. I guess that they really wanted him to understand that he wasn't needed anymore.

But the story of Brian's time in the band isn't pretty. Brian did his fair share to keep anger the others and they did their best to make him feel worthless. He was a fragile soul to begin with and his loveless upbringing made him difficult at times. Doing drugs was the biggest mistake a man with his persona could do.
That said, the rest (mostly Mick and Keith) did act like first-class a-holes to him and I can't understand how you could treat a member of your band like they did
- especially when you know that the guy feel like crap.

I'm not saying that what Keith and Mick did to Brian was good, but I do understand the attitude towards Brian a little bit.
If a person is so addictive, restless, stubborn and an empty soul, why would you spend more energy on this person?? BUT... on the other hand, instead of pushing Brian over the edge, ALL the Stones members could have a good talk with him about his drug and alcohol abuse and their vision about the music.

I don't know... I find the whole story about Brian vs. Mick/Keith too easy to take over. I mean, there was also Bill, Charlie and Ian. Don't they have any part in this whole thing? Especially during 1968/1969??

>> ALL the Stones members could have a good talk with him about his drug and alcohol abuse <<

that's hard enough to do now, when we all know about the dangers and there are miles of supportive resources to turn to,
in those days people didn't know, plus which the existing rehab-type places were not at all "counterculture-friendly".

and yeah: twenty-something kids hard at work navigating an unbelievable skyrocket of an opportunity
that isn't going to wait or come around again can be callous.

Coming back to punkfloyd's original question: it's not easy to know whose guitar is playing what on early Stones things (at least I don't find it easy) and YouTube videos can be very deceptive because on TV the Stones are so often miming, and not always miming what they actually play on the record.

But here's one where they are really live and you can see and hear Brian doing his thing on Around and Around and The Last Time:





(there's about half a minute of Jimmy Savile to sit through first, but be patient!)

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DiamondDog7
If a person is so addictive, restless, stubborn and an empty soul, why would you spend more energy on this person?? BUT... on the other hand, instead of pushing Brian over the edge, ALL the Stones members could have a good talk with him about his drug and alcohol abuse and their vision about the music.

The sad thing is that one the guys has said that they didn't look forward to Brian's total breakdown. But still, they didn't spend any energy to help him during his time as a Stone really - rather the opposite. In fact the nicest thing they did to him was to call their old friend and mentor Aleksis Korner to check on Brian after he got sacked/left the band. It was nice because it shows that they did care for him a bit but it weird that they waited so long. IMO the best thing for Brian was his departure from the Rolling Stones. People around him say that after he had cried a bit about it he became more happy and healthy than he had been for a long time. It's just poor shame that he didn't got the chance to do something new musically.

Then I must disagree with you a little! Brian was addictive, restless and stubborn but he wasn't an empty soul! Rather the opposite! Just listen to him play!

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DiamondDog7
I don't know... I find the whole story about Brian vs. Mick/Keith too easy to take over. I mean, there was also Bill, Charlie and Ian. Don't they have any part in this whole thing? Especially during 1968/1969??

I would like to know more about that as well as they (Bill & Charlie) were the only ones who went to Brian's funeral. Ian didn't like Brian so I guess he's out of the picture - but both Bill and Charlie claims to have! To bad they don't share more of their thoughts and feelings about the happenings around this time.

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Green Lady
Coming back to punkfloyd's original question: it's not easy to know whose guitar is playing what on early Stones things (at least I don't find it easy) and YouTube videos can be very deceptive because on TV the Stones are so often miming, and not always miming what they actually play on the record.

But here's one where they are really live and you can see and hear Brian doing his thing on Around and Around and The Last Time:





(there's about half a minute of Jimmy Savile to sit through first, but be patient!)

THANKS GREEN LADY!!!!!

Charlie and Bill didn't play a hero's role concerning Brian. Their attitude was very consequently accepting the leading role of the Glimmers and remaining passive as much as possible. They were 'sidemen', though not without responsibility. Brian surely must have been a difficult person, regarding his relationships with women, his many children at such a young age, his violent behaviour etc. But none of those things is an excuse to treat someone, a fellow bandmember notably, that badly as Jagger and Richards treated Brian.

It may not be a secret that I like the Taylor-era most (followed by the Brian-era), but I'm glad that Taylor took the consequences and resigned by surprise, leaving the Glimmers with a musical loss they never could restore. Revenge for Brian as yet.

Easy to condemn something that happened over 40 years ago, with snippets of information. A lot of people sound like they were direct witness to all these events.

The education level we have now, and attitudes with addiction and other behavioural problems is on a completely different level with how things were in the 60's.

At the time there was an incredible amount of naivete towards this...plus, these guys they were all in the early/mid twenties, still kids really, with the world served up to them on a silver platter.

While I think Mick & Keith could have been nicer, and Charlie and Bill could have been more supportive, given the times, their age, and what they witnessed of Brian's behaviour (he was a c*nt), I don't think we should be so judgemental.

What psychic weaklings western civilization has made so many of us.

Here can one hear VERY clearly how Brian handles basic Chuck Berry rhythm (it's about all one can hear from teh band anyway...):

[tinypic.com]

It is live "Carol" from Mike Douglas Show, 1964. There is also a miming of "Tell Me" plus a funny interview of all of them.

(Thanks to Lisa of "Brian Jones: Cencored from Our Minds" forum. Never seen this footage until now!).

- Doxa

P.S. And seemingly - now when I notice it - there is already a thread of this rare clip here: [www.iorr.org]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2010-06-18 02:24 by Doxa.

I love every single song from the begining that brian plays harmonica...I feel really good when I listen to it, i can imagine he playing just great the harmonica and stuff... specially with the slide...its too precious! too bad we havent a great material of him, of his voice! too bad :/

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Posted by: Doxa ()
Date: June 18, 2010 02:03


Here can one hear VERY clearly how Brian handles basic Chuck Berry rhythm

yeah! I can hear it cleary.... thanks! I loved to hear brian playing the chuck berry's riffs...and he played so well.... awesome... all I can hear before was keef's solos and cant hear brian's guitar carefully...so, now I can... again..thanks

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treaclefingers
Easy to condemn something that happened over 40 years ago, with snippets of information. A lot of people sound like they were direct witness to all these events.

I agree with that even though I know I often take Brian's side.

My view on it is that the negative side of him has been dominant for many years. Brian hasn't had a chance to defend himself and it's not until later years that we have gotten more positive views about him. Laura Jackson's book about Brian is one of those and he is also mentioned in various biographies in a positive manner. Some of it contradicts the old stories and shows that he wasn't just a c**t. In fact Brian wasn't more of a @#$%& than many other rock stars that followed in his tracks.

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punkfloyd
Apologies if this has been asked before, but I'm not sure I could pick out Brian Jones on any songs during his era. On what songs can I hear him play a riff or something?

Back to the original question...I've often wondered what the big deal about Brian was all about. I know he started the band and he played a few different instruments but did he do anything that was so great? He didn't write any songs, didn't sing, didn't have any big guitar solos except doing the Chuck Berry thing.

From what I gather he really didn't have much to do with the BB album and that is a real killer.

I think he was more of a cult of personality that anything else.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-06-18 04:18 by coffeepotman.

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coffeepotman

Back to the original question...I've often wondered what the big deal about Brian was all about. I know he started the band and he played a few different instruments but did he do anything that was so great? He didn't write any songs, didn't sing, didn't have any big guitar solos except doing the Chuck Berry thing.

From what I gather he really didn't have much to do with the BB album and that is a real killer.

I think he was more of a cult of personality that anything else.

and out come the worms from the can...

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coffeepotman

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punkfloyd
Apologies if this has been asked before, but I'm not sure I could pick out Brian Jones on any songs during his era. On what songs can I hear him play a riff or something?

Back to the original question...I've often wondered what the big deal about Brian was all about. I know he started the band and he played a few different instruments but did he do anything that was so great? He didn't write any songs, didn't sing, didn't have any big guitar solos except doing the Chuck Berry thing.

From what I gather he really didn't have much to do with the BB album and that is a real killer.

I think he was more of a cult of personality that anything else.

That's a very shallow way of thinking. I'm sorry, but I totally disagree.

Ok, Brian wasn't the best guitarplayer. But he fullfilled the job as a rhythm guitarplayer in those early days. Just a simple task (totally different than Taylor and Wood). As time and music changes, Brian took the liberty to try 'new' instruments on a couple of albums. If he didn't played the sitar, flute, saxophone, slide, mellotron, the Stones were about the be a boring band.

He wasn't the greatest player, but he gave the Stones an superb sound on some albums, which were good sounds in those days. Without that, it would be a totally different kind of group.
From 1969 till now it's a totally different time, sound, group.

For some of Brian´s best early guitar playing:


Roadrunner (lead)

Honey What´s Wrong (rhythm)

I Wanna Be Your Man (lead/slide)

Mona (lead "Bo Diddley" tremolo)

It´s All Over Now (main "power chords" rhythm/lead) (solo is by Keith)

I Can´t Be Satisfied (slide)

Confessin´ The Blues (rhythm/co-lead)

Down In The Bottom (slide)

Little Red Rooster (slide)

Everybody Needs Somebody To Love (rhythm)

The Last Time (lead riff/figure)

I´m Moving On (slide)

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DiamondDog7
Ok, Brian wasn't the best guitarplayer. But he fullfilled the job as a rhythm guitarplayer in those early days. Just a simple task (totally different than Taylor and Wood)..

And in the very early days he wasn't just a rhythm guitar player but he gave the most distinguished guitar performances in the record: the screaming slide guitar solo in "I Wanna Be Your Man" that introduced the slide to British masses, teh "power chords" of "It's All Over Now" that makes the song stunning and special, the slide guitar through "Little Red Rooster", the riff of "The Last Time" that made the guitar riff about the hottest thing in rock music. Three of the last mentioned were number one singles in UK charts so Brian surely made his mark. I think the way Brian afterwards took different - some very exotic - instruments just continued his purpose in enrichening and colouring the Stones musical soundscape with new sounds (the first being harmonica). That seemed to be his thing. Never it was an issue of of any technical complexity but just finding the right, needed sounds. Brian really had a special ear for that.

And what I find very unique in Brian's efforts is that they still, after all these decades, sounds goddamn good and ageless. The guitar solo in "I Wanna Be Your Man" still kicks one's asses off (just like, say, Elmore James's slide in "Dust My Broom" does); the riff of "The Last Time" is magical and sticks in your mind; never had a sitar sounded so great in a rock tune context as does it in "Paint It Black"; the marimba in "Under My Thumb" sets one mood to reflective, melancholy landscapes, as does the recorder in "Ruby Tuesday", etc. All in all, if one just listens their recorded high profile output, there is no other player - expect Mick and Keith - that had made such a distinctive contribution to the Stones sound as Brian did.

- Doxa



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2010-06-18 11:28 by Doxa.

I think it's interesting to know more about how the first 'big three' interacted musically. That would shed more light on Brian's musical input and influence in the band. For example, I don't think Mick or better said Keith used to bring in wholly finished songs as for the music.

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coffeepotman
Back to the original question...I've often wondered what the big deal about Brian was all about. I know he started the band and he played a few different instruments but did he do anything that was so great? He didn't write any songs, didn't sing, didn't have any big guitar solos except doing the Chuck Berry thing.

From what I gather he really didn't have much to do with the BB album and that is a real killer.

If Brian hadn't worked so hard to promote the Stones at the beginning I doubt anybody would know them today. When Brian was clean people say he was a huge force in the band but as the drugs, inner problems and isolation whitin the band took over his force faded. I also think that you've missunderstood Brian's role in the Stones cause he is a big part of their sound during the early and mid 60's. He wasn't an amazing player but he gets the job done and it works.

Brian was still pretty active during BB and he is performing on almost every track on that album.

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kleermaker
I think it's interesting to know more about how the first 'big three' interacted musically. That would shed more light on Brian's musical input and influence in the band. For example, I don't think Mick or better said Keith used to bring in wholly finished songs as for the music.

I don't think so either. But just to say that is like throwing shit in a fan here. If a song says Jagger/Richards they've done it all themselves...

I don't wanna walk or talk about Brian, I just wanna see his face...

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treaclefingers
I don't wanna walk or talk about Brian, I just wanna see his face...

[www.iorr.org]