Tell Me :
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Fun debate to have.
I like debating when the answer to the issue is already a known fact.
The Rolling Stones did that when they released it as a Rolling Stones song.
Literally and legally, with all that entails.
Countless RS songs have originated with only "one member", before others added to it, with and without outside musicians. So I guess it's just the time in between that disqualifies it for you. Fair enough. Fortunately, their criteria isn't as strict as yours.
The Brian comparison is a bit ludicrous, so won't add to that other than at the end of the day, they, and they alone,
are the arbitrators of what is a RS song. (providing they own the copyrights).
And when the backing tracks were recorded there was only one...
'That happened in one grand bash in France for Exile. I had the riff. The rest of the Stones were late for one reason or another. It was only Bobby Keys there and Jimmy Miller, who was producing. I said, I've got this idea; let's put it down for when the guys arrive. I put down some guitar and vocal, Bobby was on baritone sax and Jimmy was on drums. We listened to it, and I said, I can put another guitar there and a bass. By the time the Stones arrived, we'd cut it. I love it when they drip off the end of the fingers. And I was pretty happy about it, which is why it ended up being called Happy'.
- Keith Richards, 2002
[timeisonourside.com]
Who are the 'experts' that claim Taylor play on the studio version?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-28 01:40 by DandelionPowderman.
This is something Keith has been saying all along. You know that perfectly well, of course.
And most fans know this story, and they know the huge differences in playing styles between Taylor and Keith.
Stirring the pot again? Having fun?
Boring...
Enjoy Taylor's wah wah on Heartbreaker, as well as his slide on Happy.
I'm sure the experts will prove you right.
Keep up the good work. You make this forum a better place.
Well I don't claim to be an expert or act like a know-it-all, and don't talk down to others who may have a differing opinion and/or theories when it comes to creidts of who played what, where, and when.
I'm always open to hear every side of the story, and more often than not I side with the actual source - in this case (Happy) I think Keith is correct, but am willing to hear Talor1's side of the story.
And I don't pick out certain quotes that suit my argument while dismissing others from the same person by saying that person is often confused and wrong.
But you can continue to tell us all the facts as they actually happened (even when it goes against quotes from the band) as I'm sure you will, and just as you always have.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-28 02:24 by Hairball.
Right on. People act like they are being personally affronted. What is that?
Great song. So happy they gave it to us.
Fixed your quote Taylor1 by separating it properly, and I guess we all agree that Taylor wasn't on the studio version of Happy, though not everything is as absolute as some here tend to believe.
*Should be noted that Ronnie has been playing the solo on Happy for many years now - sloppy as hell of course, but he makes a valiant effort.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
There are some experts in negativity on this forum! They analyze every detail and always find negative aspects.
Talk about your favorite band.
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Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
MisterDDDD
()
Date: July 28, 2020 00:24
Quote
Hairball
Right-y-o, but that's not the case here. Has there ever been any "Rolling Stones" songs that initially only featured ONE member (in this case Keith w/some established outside musicians),
and then over 45 years later another band member adds something and then it's magically released as a "Rolling Stones" song? I don't think so. Personally, I think this has set a new precedent, and maybe has opened a can of worms...next thing you know any oddity that was recorded by a single member decades ago (whether as a demo, something for an outside project, or even just farting around in the studio alone) and that was never intended for the Stones, can now have another member add something today decades later, and all of the sudden it's a Rolling Stones song. Considering it was only Keith, Page, Grech, and Rowlands, (and Ian) playing in Ronnies basement, something tells me this was never intended to be a Stones track - at least not back when they were initially jamming on it. Why include Page when they could have used Taylor?
On the bright side, maybe some day they'll resurrect some of Brian's experimental noodlings, add some new Mick vocals, and we can have a new Stones song featuring Brian over 50 years after he passed away!
Fun debate to have.
I like debating when the answer to the issue is already a known fact.
The Rolling Stones did that when they released it as a Rolling Stones song.
Literally and legally, with all that entails.
Countless RS songs have originated with only "one member", before others added to it, with and without outside musicians. So I guess it's just the time in between that disqualifies it for you. Fair enough. Fortunately, their criteria isn't as strict as yours.
The Brian comparison is a bit ludicrous, so won't add to that other than at the end of the day, they, and they alone,
are the arbitrators of what is a RS song. (providing they own the copyrights).
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: July 28, 2020 00:34
Yep, only one band member and 46 years without any additonal work on it, and then after all this time add some new vocals to it...that's what makes it suspicious, and in my mind not really a Stones song.
And yeah, they can call it a Stones song literally and legally, but it's really bogus imo when you consider all of the facts.
I don't think the Brian scenario is ludicrous at all if you consider the Scarlet scenario legitimate - no difference at all really other than Brian passed away 50+ year ago.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
And yeah, they can call it a Stones song literally and legally, but it's really bogus imo when you consider all of the facts.
I don't think the Brian scenario is ludicrous at all if you consider the Scarlet scenario legitimate - no difference at all really other than Brian passed away 50+ year ago.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: July 28, 2020 00:37
There's only two Stones on Happy ....
ROCKMAN
ROCKMAN
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: July 28, 2020 00:40
Two stones are more than one.
And one of them is a multitasker - guitar, vocals, and bass.
And it was all recorded within a certain time frame - always intended as a Stones song - nothing added to it decades later.
No comparison really.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-28 00:41 by Hairball.
And one of them is a multitasker - guitar, vocals, and bass.
And it was all recorded within a certain time frame - always intended as a Stones song - nothing added to it decades later.
No comparison really.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-28 00:41 by Hairball.
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: July 28, 2020 00:51
Cant figure out what all the fuss is about
Its a great song ...loose feel .... Enjoy it
ROCKMAN
Its a great song ...loose feel .... Enjoy it
ROCKMAN
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Erik_Snow
()
Date: July 28, 2020 01:02
Me neither, it's a bit like them arguments about Get Yer Yas-Yas Out being impossible to enjoy because "it's not a real live recording, as there were overdubs done afterwards". Like if there some kind of principle that decided what music one allowed oneself to enjoy. Rolling Stones have always released finished products not untouched documents with warts and all.
It was different with many (not all) of them songs on Exile deluxe and Some Girls deluxe, IMO, as the original outtakes with mumbling lyrics were actually better. The "fact that they had been reworked" wasn't the problem. But the work Jagger has done on both Save Me and Scarlet sounds terrific to me. Doesn't matter what decade it was done in, it's no forgery, Jagger is still Jagger.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-28 01:04 by Erik_Snow.
It was different with many (not all) of them songs on Exile deluxe and Some Girls deluxe, IMO, as the original outtakes with mumbling lyrics were actually better. The "fact that they had been reworked" wasn't the problem. But the work Jagger has done on both Save Me and Scarlet sounds terrific to me. Doesn't matter what decade it was done in, it's no forgery, Jagger is still Jagger.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-28 01:04 by Erik_Snow.
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: July 28, 2020 01:08
I agree that Save Me aka Criss Cross is fantastic - sounds like the true Rolling Stones, and nothing too much was altered or added
to make it that much different than the original boot most of us have always loved.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
to make it that much different than the original boot most of us have always loved.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: July 28, 2020 01:30
The so called experts on this website say that all the time.But some experts ,say Taylor is on it.I would be convinced if Taylor was asked if he played on Happy and said “no”.Quote
Rockman
There's only two Stones on Happy ....
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: July 28, 2020 01:33
Quote
Rockman
There's only two Stones on Happy ....
And when the backing tracks were recorded there was only one...
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: July 28, 2020 01:37
Quote
Taylor1The so called experts on this website say that all the time.But some experts ,say Taylor is on it.I would be convinced if Taylor was asked if he played on Happy and said “no”.Quote
Rockman
There's only two Stones on Happy ....
'That happened in one grand bash in France for Exile. I had the riff. The rest of the Stones were late for one reason or another. It was only Bobby Keys there and Jimmy Miller, who was producing. I said, I've got this idea; let's put it down for when the guys arrive. I put down some guitar and vocal, Bobby was on baritone sax and Jimmy was on drums. We listened to it, and I said, I can put another guitar there and a bass. By the time the Stones arrived, we'd cut it. I love it when they drip off the end of the fingers. And I was pretty happy about it, which is why it ended up being called Happy'.
- Keith Richards, 2002
[timeisonourside.com]
Who are the 'experts' that claim Taylor play on the studio version?
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-28 01:40 by DandelionPowderman.
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: July 28, 2020 01:39
I guess you can believe Keith when it suits your argument, but other times he's confused about certain credits about who played what, where, and when.
And the fact this quote is from 2002... 30 years after Exile....yeah very reliable evidence....not saying it's false, but.....
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-28 01:45 by Hairball.
And the fact this quote is from 2002... 30 years after Exile....yeah very reliable evidence....not saying it's false, but.....
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-28 01:45 by Hairball.
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: July 28, 2020 01:44
Quote
Hairball
I guess you can believe Keith when it suits your argument, but other times he's confused about certain credits about who played what, where, and when.
And the fact this quote is from 2002...40 years after Exile....yeah very believable....
This is something Keith has been saying all along. You know that perfectly well, of course.
And most fans know this story, and they know the huge differences in playing styles between Taylor and Keith.
Stirring the pot again? Having fun?
Boring...
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: July 28, 2020 01:51
I mistakenly said 40 yrs. after Exile, but edited it to correctly say 30 - I also edited to say "yeah very reliable evidence....not saying it's false, but....."
And no not stirring the pot, just noticed the double standards.
When Keith says something happened within a year of it being recorded (Heartbreaker), he's supposedly wrong or mistaken.
But when he says something 30 years later after Happy was recorded, his words are indisputable - just seems a bit odd imo.
Maybe Taylor1 will add to his theory, or quote some of the experts he mentioned....
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-28 01:54 by Hairball.
And no not stirring the pot, just noticed the double standards.
When Keith says something happened within a year of it being recorded (Heartbreaker), he's supposedly wrong or mistaken.
But when he says something 30 years later after Happy was recorded, his words are indisputable - just seems a bit odd imo.
Maybe Taylor1 will add to his theory, or quote some of the experts he mentioned....
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-28 01:54 by Hairball.
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: July 28, 2020 01:55
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Hairball
I guess you can believe Keith when it suits your argument, but other times he's confused about certain credits about who played what, where, and when.
And the fact this quote is from 2002...40 years after Exile....yeah very believable....
This is something Keith has been saying all along. You know that perfectly well, of course.
And most fans know this story, and they know the huge differences in playing styles between Taylor and Keith.
Stirring the pot again? Having fun?
Why couldn’t the second solo on Happy be Taylor playing like Keith? Just like Keith on Jigsaw Puzzle sounds likeBrian?
Boring...
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: July 28, 2020 01:56
lol...that quote got mighty messed up....
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
DandelionPowderman
()
Date: July 28, 2020 02:06
Quote
Hairball
I mistakenly said 40 yrs. after Exile, but edited it to correctly say 30 - I also edited to say "yeah very reliable evidence....not saying it's false, but....."
And no not stirring the pot, just noticed the double standards.
When Keith says something happened within a year of it being recorded (Heartbreaker), he's supposedly wrong or mistaken.
But when he says something 30 years later after Happy was recorded, his words are indisputable - just seems a bit odd imo.
Maybe Taylor1 will add to his theory, or quote some of the experts he mentioned....
Enjoy Taylor's wah wah on Heartbreaker, as well as his slide on Happy.
I'm sure the experts will prove you right.
Keep up the good work. You make this forum a better place.
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: July 28, 2020 02:18
Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Hairball
I mistakenly said 40 yrs. after Exile, but edited it to correctly say 30 - I also edited to say "yeah very reliable evidence....not saying it's false, but....."
And no not stirring the pot, just noticed the double standards.
When Keith says something happened within a year of it being recorded (Heartbreaker), he's supposedly wrong or mistaken.
But when he says something 30 years later after Happy was recorded, his words are indisputable - just seems a bit odd imo.
Maybe Taylor1 will add to his theory, or quote some of the experts he mentioned....
Enjoy Taylor's wah wah on Heartbreaker, as well as his slide on Happy.
I'm sure the experts will prove you right.
Keep up the good work. You make this forum a better place.
Well I don't claim to be an expert or act like a know-it-all, and don't talk down to others who may have a differing opinion and/or theories when it comes to creidts of who played what, where, and when.
I'm always open to hear every side of the story, and more often than not I side with the actual source - in this case (Happy) I think Keith is correct, but am willing to hear Talor1's side of the story.
And I don't pick out certain quotes that suit my argument while dismissing others from the same person by saying that person is often confused and wrong.
But you can continue to tell us all the facts as they actually happened (even when it goes against quotes from the band) as I'm sure you will, and just as you always have.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-28 02:24 by Hairball.
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
quietbeatle
()
Date: July 28, 2020 02:19
Quote
Rockman
Cant figure out what all the fuss is about
Its a great song ...loose feel .... Enjoy it
Right on. People act like they are being personally affronted. What is that?
Great song. So happy they gave it to us.
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: July 28, 2020 03:25
Quote
DandelionPowdermanThere could ha e been instrumental overdubs to Happy afterKeith put down all his original parts.Why couldn’t Taylor be playing the second solo sounding like Keith? a A lot of Keith’s slide parts Sound like Brian on Beggars Banquet .DP is probably right, Taylor is not on Happy.But is interesting that on the 1972 tourTaylor played all the solosonHappy and Tumbling Dice and not Keith.Quote
Hairball
I mistakenly said 40 yrs. after Exile, but edited it to correctly say 30 - I also edited to say "yeah very reliable evidence....not saying it's false, but....."
And no not stirring the pot, just noticed the double standards.
When Keith says something happened within a year of it being recorded (Heartbreaker), he's supposedly wrong or mistaken.
But when he says something 30 years later after Happy was recorded, his words are indisputable - just seems a bit odd imo.
Maybe Taylor1 will add to his theory, or quote some of the sources .
Enjoy Taylor's wah wah on Heartbreaker, as well as his slide on Happy.
I'm sure the experts will prove you right.
Keep up the good work. You make this forum a better place.
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: July 28, 2020 03:30
Quote
Taylor1There could have been instrumental overdubs to Happy after Keith put down all his original parts.Why couldn’t Taylor be playing the second solo sounding like Keith? A lot of Keith’s slide playing sounds like Brian on Beggars Banquet.But DP is probably right,Taylor is not on Happy.But is interesting that on the1972tour Taylor played all the solos on Happy and Tumbling Dice and not Keith .Quote
DandelionPowdermanQuote
Hairball
I mistakenly said 40 yrs. after Exile, but edited it to correctly say 30 - I also edited to say "yeah very reliable evidence....not saying it's false, but....."
And no not stirring the pot, just noticed the double standards.
When Keith says something happened within a year of it being recorded (Heartbreaker), he's supposedly wrong or mistaken.
But when he says something 30 years later after Happy was recorded, his words are indisputable - just seems a bit odd imo.
Maybe Taylor1 will add to his theory, or quote some of the experts he mentioned....
Enjoy Taylor's wah wah on Heartbreaker, as well as his slide on Happy.
I'm sure the experts will prove you right.
Keep up the good work. You make this forum a better place.
Fixed your quote Taylor1 by separating it properly, and I guess we all agree that Taylor wasn't on the studio version of Happy, though not everything is as absolute as some here tend to believe.
*Should be noted that Ronnie has been playing the solo on Happy for many years now - sloppy as hell of course, but he makes a valiant effort.
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Taylor1
()
Date: July 28, 2020 04:02
I always thought the guitar that plays the riff on the studioBitch was Keith ,because it sounded like him .But it’s Taylor right?
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Hairball
()
Date: July 28, 2020 04:36
I'm no expert, but based on this '71 video (among others) where Taylor is playing the riff and Keith the lead, it's safe to assume that it is Taylor playing the riff on the studio version.
But again, I'm not an expert (like some around here), and not sure what was going on in the studio at the time of it's actual recording, so can't really assume anything 100%.
EDIT: Oops...forgot to add video...
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-28 04:46 by Hairball.
But again, I'm not an expert (like some around here), and not sure what was going on in the studio at the time of it's actual recording, so can't really assume anything 100%.
EDIT: Oops...forgot to add video...
_____________________________________________________________
Rip this joint, gonna save your soul, round and round and round we go......
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-28 04:46 by Hairball.
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
jbwelda
()
Date: July 28, 2020 04:42
The problem to me is, back then, they could sound so alike and were doing the "weaving" of guitar parts so much, its hard to tell who is playing what without a video and even then sometimes its tough. Some videos though can be very revealing, like I will see Keef playing something and think, i thought that was Taylor doing that line all along, and look over and see Taylor playing rhythm. I have noticed that more than once watching old videos like Ladies and Gentlemen TRS.
jb
jb
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
KRiffhard
()
Date: July 28, 2020 08:33
Quote
quietbeatleQuote
Rockman
Cant figure out what all the fuss is about
Its a great song ...loose feel .... Enjoy it
Right on. People act like they are being personally affronted. What is that?
Great song. So happy they gave it to us.
There are some experts in negativity on this forum! They analyze every detail and always find negative aspects.
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: July 28, 2020 08:42
....dont you worry KRiffhard ....
We know where they live .... We have their number
ROCKMAN
We know where they live .... We have their number
ROCKMAN
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
exil
()
Date: July 28, 2020 08:44
Everyones Got There Opinion.Its Like A Big Debate.A Masterbate.
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: July 28, 2020 09:00
HHHHaaaaa yeah well there's a
fair bit of that goes on around here .....
ROCKMAN
fair bit of that goes on around here .....
ROCKMAN
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
bitusa2012
()
Date: July 28, 2020 09:30
Wanted to like this. But the more I listen the more dismissive of it I am. It just does NOT sound right. It doesn't even sound like the Stones - and PLENTY of other Stones tracks don't sound Stones-typical yet obviously ARE The Stones.
I don't care much for the "how many Stones members are on it?" arguments. Other Stones tracks have mimimal inputs from all The Stones themselves...heap of Exile, Moonlight Mile etc....
...but Scarlet, having let it brew, just plain is not a very good track. There's a reason it wasn't released til now - it's just not good.
I think SOME us us WANT to like it so much, we're in NEED of something, anything by The Stones, that we're almost talking ourselves into liking it...not me. Sorry
Rod
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-28 09:34 by bitusa2012.
I don't care much for the "how many Stones members are on it?" arguments. Other Stones tracks have mimimal inputs from all The Stones themselves...heap of Exile, Moonlight Mile etc....
...but Scarlet, having let it brew, just plain is not a very good track. There's a reason it wasn't released til now - it's just not good.
I think SOME us us WANT to like it so much, we're in NEED of something, anything by The Stones, that we're almost talking ourselves into liking it...not me. Sorry
Rod
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2020-07-28 09:34 by bitusa2012.
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Erik_Snow
()
Date: July 28, 2020 09:36
Fair enough to not like a track, but you shouldn't insinuate that others like a track because of them being in some kind of existential crisis. I really like Too Much Blood for instance, but I don't pretend to know why others here loathe it.
Re: Scarlet
Posted by:
Rockman
()
Date: July 28, 2020 09:45
Hey Yeah .... Lurv Too Much Blood ....
Best track for Aerobic workout in da world ....
ROCKMAN
Best track for Aerobic workout in da world ....
ROCKMAN
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