Does anybody know why they edited out "the sunshine bores the daylight outta me" line in the live version of Rocks Off on Live Licks (listen around 02:48)? To my ear it sounds like a studio edit and not a live flub. Or maybe they flubbed it and that was the best fix they could come up with? Either way...YUCK!

We discussed this a bunch when the album was new even contacting (and receiving response) from mixmaster Bob Clearmountain who had nothing to do with the edit but did give the collection it's welcome guitar heavy emphasis.

We finally arrived at the idea Mick didn't like his vocal delivery and had it expunged. The performance is apparently the same as that on the LICKS DVD set so you can compare. It also seemed apparent that EMI was expecting a new Stones album for 4th quarter (Christmas) sales that year and when none was forthcoming cobbled together Live Licks from the DVD of a year earlier. It's a marginal effort by Stones standards and the first and only of their live albums not to carry it's own visual theme thru the package. Rather it utilizes a grainy reproduction of the HTW backing film as it's visual theme (another sign it was done quick and on the cheap).

What's funny about it is that they used THAT one and not, I would hope, a better one from some other show. Funny how they do that. Yeah - it had a nice screw up - Mick totally missed the line and came in really late and it had a kind of lump to it, like the band ran over a bump. Technically it's a good edit, it just doesn't work flow wise.

Brown Sugar is also edited (butchered actually). The intro is shortened and the final chorus is cut altogether. WHY?

It annoys me so much I cannot listen to that track. It's exactly the same version as Four Flicks but it sounds fine on the DVD. I don't know why this was ever allowed to be released.

Likewise the guitar solo on YCAGWYW is shortened but the stupid singalong remains. I suppose they just pulled the audio beds from Four Flicks to get it done quick and on the cheap but why go to the time and expense to edit ANYTHING? Each disc is only a little over an hour.

A truly shabby effort.

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R
Likewise the guitar solo on YCAGWYW is shortened but the stupid singalong remains. I suppose they just pulled the audio beds from Four Flicks to get it done quick and on the cheap but why go to the time and expense to edit ANYTHING? Each disc is only a little over an hour.

A truly shabby effort.

Absolutely.

If you remember, when Live Licks was announced it had a track listing of something like 32-33 songs (including stuff like 'Parachute woman' from the Orpheum theatre gig) - which (considering two CDs can hold 160 minutes of music and a Stones show from that tour ran for about 110 minutes and had about 19 songs) should give some idea of how much editing was done.

When they released it, it came to 109 minutes and 23 songs, so even though they still had over an hour to play with, it appears that they simply dropped 10 songs and kept the edits that would have been in place for the 33-song version.

Never ceases to amaze me a) that no one involved in this project noticed this bit of amateurish butchery and b) that a band of the Stones' reputation could sanction the release of a product, the final version of which none of them had bothered to listen to.

There is also something "off" with the beginning of Brown Sugar on Live Licks.

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flairville
It annoys me so much I cannot listen to that track. It's exactly the same version as Four Flicks but it sounds fine on the DVD. I don't know why this was ever allowed to be released.

I don't know that it sounds fine on the DVD. They should have used a different version of the song altogether for the live album. If you do like the DVD version,there is a software program called DVD Audio Extractor which can extract the audio from the DVD.

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punkfloyd
Does anybody know why they edited out "the sunshine bores the daylight outta me" line in the live version of Rocks Off on Live Licks (listen around 02:48)? To my ear it sounds like a studio edit and not a live flub. Or maybe they flubbed it and that was the best fix they could come up with? Either way...YUCK!

Welcome to IORR !

It's always irritated the hell out of me - I can't listent o that version....it's just ridiculous, to cut such a key part of the song out and expect people to be like, 'oh it still sounds fantastic man' load of shite and why didn't they just replace it with a different song...it's a shoddy bit of editing at best and clumsy as hell.

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theimposter
Brown Sugar is also edited (butchered actually). The intro is shortened and the final chorus is cut altogether.

The intro is shortened but the outro is unedited (it seems) - it's still 316 minutes long. It's a joke. And the real shame of it is Bob Clearmountain's fantastic mixing job - we don't truly get to enjoy it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-06-04 23:13 by skipstone.

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skipstone

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theimposter
Brown Sugar is also edited (butchered actually). The intro is shortened and the final chorus is cut altogether.

The intro is shortened but the outro is unedited (it seems) - it's still 316 minutes long. It's a joke. And the real shame of it is Bob Clearmountain's fantastic mixing job - we don't truly get to enjoy it.

Right. Clearmountain did do a bang-up job, it was the best sounding live album since Ya-Ya's by far. But christ on a crutch did they do some shoddy editing. And on Brown Sugar I don't think the outro itself is cut, but listen again and I am almost certain that after the 3rd verse it skips the last chorus and goes straight to the Yeah Yea WOO part. Pointless as hell.

I guess I can buy that the vocal on Street Fighting Man was overdubbed due to a recording/microphone problem (as Bob C claimed), but it also wouldn't surprise me if Mick just wanted to give it a "punchier" opening since it was chosen as the album's opener.

Back to what skipstone said, even though it has its high points for sure, Live Licks remains a disappointing document of what could have been. That's why I am glad I was able to record the tracks onto cd from the dvd audio.

The problem with the Twickenham version of Rocks Off was this:

During the "It's so mezmorized" section charlie came back in on an off beat and completely messed up the next section of the song for about 10 seconds.
The snare and Bass drum hits were basically reversed by accident.
I was at the gig and I remember it well (us Drummers notice these things). It's also audible on the audience recording of the show.

For the Twickenham DVD, they somehow managed to recify this using the wonders of digital technology. Not sure if they replaced the drum track or just edited/moved it to fit, but it is completely fixed and un-noticable.

The one thing I cannot explain however, is why on earth they did not used this "Fixed" dvd version on the Live Licks, CD. It seems crazy that they just edit out the whole section after taking the time to fix it so well!

2 other major repairs were made on the Twickenham DVD as well.

Ronnie played a very "wrong" note during the solo of Wild Horses and this has been fixed on the DVD. Sounds like they've cut out the bad note and extended the following or previous correct note over it, making it seem like a long sustained note. If I remember correctly, you can even see his fingers move on the DVD but the note stays the same.

Fianlly,on Tumbling Dice, Jagger started singing way too early during the intro and it sounded rather shambolic for a while. Again, on the DVD, they seem to have moved the vocal along to the right part of the song or possibly even patched in a different vocal take. Again, unless you were familiar with the "bad" version, you'd never know.

If you want more proof, IORR legend Keessie has recently uploaded the audience recordings here for your listening pleasure...

[www.iorr.org]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 2010-06-05 00:50 by vudicus.

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vudicus
Ronnie played a very "wrong" note during the solo of Wild Horses and this has been fixed on the DVD. Sounds like they've cut out the bad note and extended the following or previous correct note over it, making it seem like a long sustained note. If I remember correctly, you can even see his fingers move on the DVD but the note stays the same.

I wonder if that explains why on the special features of the DVD where you allow the DVD to show the "behind the scenes" cuts throughout the concert...Keith approaches Ronnie after "Wild Horses" and it looks like he's giving him a huge scream...fingers pointing and really looking pissed.

What I was not pleased with as far as Street Fighting Man goes is they didn't use the Madison Square Garden one - that one, at least on the DVD and the ppv as I remember it, was SUPREME. I recorded it to VHS and the only flaw was Keith missing the first jump to the chorus - which is fixed on the DVD (in the ppv you can actually see him do it, on the DVD they magically found another camera angle). Aside from that little flub, it was a great vocal on Jagger's part. Why they used the one they did, with the screwed up into to the vocals edited as it is I'll never understand.

Actually on the original PPV version, I recall Mick's voice noticeably cracked when he reached for the high note in during "Hey, Think the time is right for a palace revolution."

They fixed it on the DVD.

skipstone, I honestly thought that the Twick version of SFM had more musical intensity than the MSG performance (thought that was great as well). Perhaps they thought so as well when selecting tracks for the album.


What still kills me is the cheap and convenient reliance on the Four Flicks dvd the source of the record, when there were many, many good versions of those songs from that tour to choose from. "Rocks Off" from Cleveland is one of the best renditions of that song I have ever heard them do. Why in the hell would I and other fans notice that and not the Stones and their producers.

Guess it goes back to what R said, just a cheap and convenient cash-in to fill the gap when they originally expected an album of new material to be there. Thank the heavens for bootlegs.

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flairville
It annoys me so much I cannot listen to that track. It's exactly the same version as Four Flicks but it sounds fine on the DVD. I don't know why this was ever allowed to be released.

It annoyed me so much I never listen to the entire CD, I made my own from the DVD which turned out much better. There tons of bad/unnecessary edits on that disc. Very sad.

I am truly blown away by the level of insight and expertise you guys have. I am a lifelong Stones fan and it pains me when I learn about them overdubbing live stuff. I remember several years ago when I learned Ya Ya's had overdubs. I was shattered. Yet, I don't know whats worse, discovering an overdub or hearing Keith @#$%& up the solo to Sympathy for the Devil again.

in Four Flicks it appears that Mick was late getting to the microphone, maybe because he was distracted by the Charlie Error?

>> even contacting (and receiving response) from mixmaster Bob Clearmountain who had nothing to do with the edit <<

i guess it was Clearmountain who identified someone called Stewart Whitmore as the person responsible
so i wrote to him and here's what he replied - apparently he thinks Stones fans are dumber than we look :E

"I'm sorry that you're not happy with the two songs as they appear on the album, but I didn't do any edits on those songs.
They were either edited before we received them, or, more likely, that is how the Rolling Stones performed them
at the particular concerts from which they were taken (in rearranged form, different from the studio album versions).

"Just so you know, musical edits like the ones you are referring to are almost always supervised or approved
by the artist and producer. An editor is just a technician. We operate the equipment,
making cuts where the artist and producer instruct us to. We never make decisions on our own to remove sections of music.

"If you need more information, you might want to write the record label, Virgin Records.
They should be able to forward your requests to the appropriate people.
Be sure to point out the exact locations where you're hearing a problem
(i.e. Disc 2, Track 3 at 1:43). Thanks, Stewart Whitmore"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-06-05 08:59 by with sssoul.

"They were either edited before we received them, or, more likely (WTF!!!???), that is how the Rolling Stones performed them at the particular concerts from which they were taken".

Uh huh. That's a very tall order for two queers.

>> That's a very tall order for two queers <<

LoFL: i'll say! :E
like i said: he seems to think we're dumber than we look

Speaking of terrible editing. Who was responsible for the removal of 'keep your pussy clean' line in star star on the GHS remaster? Dreadful.

Ahmet Ertegun was responsible for the "Star, Star" edit. Sloppiness on the part of the Stones camp led to that mix being used on the first pressings of the Universal reissue. The iTunes download and later pressings are corrected.

The LIVE LICKS glitch is nearly as bad as the one on "Loving Cup" on the EXILE RARITIES. I'll blame Don Was for both.

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punkfloyd
I remember several years ago when I learned Ya Ya's had overdubs. I was shattered. Yet, I don't know whats worse, discovering an overdub or hearing Keith @#$%& up the solo to Sympathy for the Devil again.

take heart--the guitar overdubs on Ya Ya's are actually minimal at most. Search here for the details.

I take no credit for this, but a decent Stones Fan years ago compiled this list. This will help you all compile your disc. I was amazed how much editing went on.


LIVE LICKS

CD 1 (49.16)

Track 1
Intro / Brown Sugar (3.30)
Source: London, Twickenham, August 24, 2003)
FourFlicks DVD: 3.51
Short cuts at start and end section

Track
Street Fighting Man (3.41)
Source: London, Twickenham, August 24, 2003) FourFlicks
DVD: 4.50
Cuts at start and section around 2:45

Track 3
Paint It, Black (3.42)
Source: London, Twickenham, August 24, 2003) FourFlicks
DVD: 4.29
Cuts in section around 2.45

Track 4
You Can't Always Get What
You Want (6.41)
Source: London, Twickenham, August 24, 2003) FourFlicks
DVD: 7.20
Cuts around 5:30

Track 5
Start Me Up (3.53)
Source: New York, Madison Sq. Garden,
HBO, Jan. 18, 2003
CDR Source: 3.53
DVD Boot Source: 3.53

Track 6
It's Only Rock'n'Roll (4.42)
Source: New York, Madison Sq. Garden,
HBO, Jan. 18, 2003
FourFlicks DVD: 4.42
CDR Source: 4.42
DVD Boot Source: 4.42

Track 7
Angie (3.24)
Source: New York, Madison Sq. Garden,
HBO, Jan. 18, 2003
FourFlicks DVD: 3.24
CDR Source: 3.24
DVD Boot Source: 3.24

Track 8
Honky Tonk Women (3.17)
Source: New York, Madison Sq. Garden,
HBO, Jan. 18, 2003
FourFlicks DVD: 4.25
CDR Source: 4.25
DVD Boot Source: 4.25
Cuts around 2:45, Chuck out

Track 9
Happy (3.26)
Source: New York, Madison Sq. Garden,
HBO, Jan. 18, 2003
FourFlicks DVD: 3.26
CDR Source: 326
DVD Boot Source: 3.26

Track 10
Gimme Shelter (6.39)
Source: New York, Madison Sq. Garden,
HBO, Jan. 18, 2003
CDR Source: 6.39
DVD Boot Source:6.39

Track 11
I Can't Get No Satisfaction (4.36)
Source: New York, Madison Sq. Garden,
HBO, Jan. 18, 2003
FourFlicks DVD: 6.06
CDR Source: 6.06
DVD Boot Source: 6.06
Cuts around 3.30 onwards

CD 2 (60.03)

Track 1
Neighbours (3.30)
Source: Paris, Olympia, July 11, 2003
FourFlicks DVD: 3.54
CDR Source: 3.54
Cuts near the end 3:15

Track 2
Monkey Man (3.33)
Source: New York, Madison Sq. Garden,
HBO, Jan. 18, 2003
FourFlicks DVD: 3.33
CDR Source: 3.33
DVD Boot Source: 3.33

Track 3
Rocks Off (3.36)
Source: London, Twickenham, August 24, 2003) FourFlicks
DVD: 4.32
Cuts around 2:45

Track 4
Can You Hear Me Knocking (9.56)
Source: Los Angeles, Wiltern, November 4, 2003
CDR Source: 10.06
Small cut start (12 sec),

Track 5
That's How Strong My Love Is (4.39)
Source: Paris, Olympia, July 11, 2003
FourFlicks DVD: 4.45
CDR Source: 4.45

Track 6
The Nearness Of You (4.32)
Source: Paris, Olympia, July 11, 2003
FourFlicks DVD: 4.37
CDR Source: 4.37

Track 7
Beast Of Burden (4.06)
Source: Los Angeles, Wiltern, November 4, 2003
FourFlicks DVD: 5.04
CDR Source: 5.04
Changes at the end, difficult to compare

Track 8
When The Whip Comes Down (4.18)
Source: New York, Madison Sq. Garden,
HBO, Jan. 18, 2003
FourFlicks DVD: 4.18
CDR Source: 4.18
DVD Boot Source: 4.18

Track 9
Rock Me, Baby (3.43)
Source: Los Angeles, Wiltern, November 4, 2003 FourFlicks
DVD: 4.13
CDR Source: 4.13
Cuts in guitar section 2:45

Track 10
You Don't Have To Mean It (4.22)
Source: Los Angeles, Wiltern, November 4, 2003 FourFlicks
DVD: 4.22
CDR Source: 4.22

Track 11
Worried About You (5.43)
Source: Paris, Olympia, July 11, 2003
FourFlicks DVD: 5.43
CDR Source: 5.43

Track 12
Everybody Needs Somebody To Love (6.06)
Source: Los Angeles, Wiltern, November 4, 2003
CDR Source: 5.27
Have difficulties to compare this, but Burke
was only doing this gig in LA with the Stones

Jagger flubbed the following line.

"chasing shadows moonlight mystery"

the shoot 'em dead, brainbell jangler!

Quote
Lynd8
I take no credit for this, but a decent Stones Fan years ago compiled this list. This will help you all compile your disc. I was amazed how much editing went on.


LIVE LICKS

CD 1 (49.16)

Track 1
Intro / Brown Sugar (3.30)
Source: London, Twickenham, August 24, 2003)
FourFlicks DVD: 3.51
Short cuts at start and end section

No, Brown Sugar is from MSG, you can hear it on the DVD.

the mixed the paris version with solomon in LA

Track 12
Everybody Needs Somebody To Love (6.06)
Source: Los Angeles, Wiltern, November 4, 2003
CDR Source: 5.27
Have difficulties to compare this, but Burke
was only doing this gig in LA with the Stones