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lucasd4

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StonesTod

stating an opinion is not the same as trying to convince others of that. nice try. you seem to have a thing for me - looking for a date? i'll check my calendar....

But stating that opinion over and over in a thread IS trying to convince others. You seem to get really upset when someone likes something that you don't like. And the calendar comment is just a childish attempt to show out for your buddies and convince everyone that you're witty and clever.

your last half-dozen or so posts have been responses to mine. i say you're obsessed.

i'm not upset in the least. i find it all pretty entertaining, actually.

and, no i don't try to convince anyone of anything. i assume ppl hold their opinions as solidly as i hold mine. that's the way it should be. now....do we have a date or not? SCL wants to know....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-05-07 23:40 by StonesTod.

kleermaker - glad to see you ignored StonesTod's "period". In my opinion you're doing a good job articulating a difficult point to make. Funny to see that he/she has also ignored his/her own “period”.

I think that most people have a tendency to confuse their own opinions for facts and their own personal preferences for indications of quality.

I think what StonesTod left out was the fact that if you like something it is able to provide a good experience for you personally but might not actually be good when judged in comparison to other works by an impartial reviewer.

Example: I like to listen to my 9 year old daughter play piano. As a professional musician/teacher, I know she's not very good. The fact that I like listening to her play is not going to change that. What makes it good for me is not the quality of the music being produced but the fact that I know she's enjoying herself and working to accomplish something.

Another example: Roughly 40 years ago the Rolling Stones released an album called Exile on Main Street which was disliked by many critics and even some of the band members. It's now hailed as one of the best albums in history. Nothing about the album has changed, it's still just as it always has been. When it was disliked it wasn't bad and it didn't get any better as more people decided they liked it.

Peace,
Mr DJA

good points, dja...i think you and i are basically saying the same thing. period. ;-)

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StonesTod

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kleermaker

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StonesTod

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kleermaker

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StonesTod

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kleermaker

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StonesTod
i always enjoy reading ppl's faves or least faves - no explanation needed. i love lots of crap and don't like alot of what others like - and it's just fun to read the variances in tastes. it's when ppl start trying to convince people that what they like is "the best" as though they have superior tastes that it loses the fun aspect. nobody has any better taste than anyone else.

Agreed, but. No superior taste, just the acknowledgement that something is of a higher quality than something else. It's simply not only a matter of personal taste. Otherwise we could say: they are all the same (as for writers, painters, composers, guitarists etc.), but they aren't, as we all know very well. Some amateur painter isn't as good as Van Gogh or Rembrandt just because someone likes the paintings of the amateur more than the Van Goghs or Rembrandts. It's an art in itself to be able to explain why Van Gogh and Rembrandt are better than a random amateur painter in your street. I once have written something about a version of YCAGWYW and the result was that an expert like HM (yes he is!) said that because of that little piece he could listen with other ears to that version than before (no jokes about the new ears of HM please). I mean: it's also interesting when people can clarify why they love something so much, otherwise than saying: It rocks (even forgetting that it's all about the roll, like Keith justly said). Vice versa it's also interesting when people can say some more than only: 100 years ago is a shit song.

Well, just an opinion.

i respect your opinion, but disagree. it's good if you like it; it's not if you don't. it's all personal. no universally acceptable way of determining whether something is better or more superior or whatever. just it does just come down to personal tastes. period.

Okay, your "period" is clear. No further discussion. Only one thing yet. Like many others I'm able to acknowledge that something that I don't like can be very good, as I said concerning J.S. Bach. The same with Mondriaan. I can see that his paintings are great, though they're absolutely not my cup of tea. So, however difficult to define, let alone objecively prove, there is something that makes the difference.

well, it's all in the eye or ear of the beholder, right? cliche-that! haha. anyway - as you say there's just no way to prove anything is better or worse, so why ppl bother trying is beyond me. like i said, i like a lot of what many/most people would regard as crap - montavani, conniff...lots of disposable pop and elevator music....is it bad? no - it's good, cos i like it. it works in reverse. - SOL sucks to me - someone else loves it. fab. that's the way it works with everything.

ok lucas - i'm looking at my weekend calendar - SCL and I have a date tomorrow night, but I can break it if you can make me a better offer....let's hear what you got in mind!

I disagree, though your reasoning is clear and simple. But otherwise you can't deny what I stated about Bach, Mondriaan and the acknowledgment of differences in quality regardless of one's personal taste and preference.

there's differences in opinion of quality, certainly. but what is the acid-test of what quality is for something so subjective? is there an empirical method of determining? i say the Stones are a quality rock'n'roll band and someone else says there aren't - how do we reconcile? we don't. it's just two opposing opinions.

Not only differences in opinion of quality, but also differences in quality per se, according to my argument. By analysing but even more by describing what factors are in the game. In this case rhythm, structure, melody, the test of time etc. Conclusion can be: I still don't like it but I can hear that it's great music. When there's a substantial amount of consensus about that, then you have some kind of 'proof'. Not waterproof proof, but that's also not necessary and applies only to mathematics and even in that field absolute certainty doesn't always exist (and I can know that ...). Thinking in strictly distinctive terms of objectivity and subjectivity is not realistic in every field. Take for example science, Newton etc. Proven theories have changed etc. Well, we're going very philosophically now (maybe satisfying for Jagger), but it's interesting though. So forget about acid tests and decisive rational and empirical methods. They don't exist in absolute sense, only in relative sense. Well, think of the relativity theory. A good example, given by good old Einstein. And even that theory is not the end.

ummm...ok, i like the Ray Conniff Singers and I think they are the best. prove me wrong.

I´d rather have/get opinions about "what´s best" than speculations about MT´s possible guitar overdubs...

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kleermaker

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StonesTod

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kleermaker

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StonesTod

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kleermaker

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StonesTod

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kleermaker

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StonesTod
i always enjoy reading ppl's faves or least faves - no explanation needed. i love lots of crap and don't like alot of what others like - and it's just fun to read the variances in tastes. it's when ppl start trying to convince people that what they like is "the best" as though they have superior tastes that it loses the fun aspect. nobody has any better taste than anyone else.

Agreed, but. No superior taste, just the acknowledgement that something is of a higher quality than something else. It's simply not only a matter of personal taste. Otherwise we could say: they are all the same (as for writers, painters, composers, guitarists etc.), but they aren't, as we all know very well. Some amateur painter isn't as good as Van Gogh or Rembrandt just because someone likes the paintings of the amateur more than the Van Goghs or Rembrandts. It's an art in itself to be able to explain why Van Gogh and Rembrandt are better than a random amateur painter in your street. I once have written something about a version of YCAGWYW and the result was that an expert like HM (yes he is!) said that because of that little piece he could listen with other ears to that version than before (no jokes about the new ears of HM please). I mean: it's also interesting when people can clarify why they love something so much, otherwise than saying: It rocks (even forgetting that it's all about the roll, like Keith justly said). Vice versa it's also interesting when people can say some more than only: 100 years ago is a shit song.

Well, just an opinion.

i respect your opinion, but disagree. it's good if you like it; it's not if you don't. it's all personal. no universally acceptable way of determining whether something is better or more superior or whatever. just it does just come down to personal tastes. period.

Okay, your "period" is clear. No further discussion. Only one thing yet. Like many others I'm able to acknowledge that something that I don't like can be very good, as I said concerning J.S. Bach. The same with Mondriaan. I can see that his paintings are great, though they're absolutely not my cup of tea. So, however difficult to define, let alone objecively prove, there is something that makes the difference.

well, it's all in the eye or ear of the beholder, right? cliche-that! haha. anyway - as you say there's just no way to prove anything is better or worse, so why ppl bother trying is beyond me. like i said, i like a lot of what many/most people would regard as crap - montavani, conniff...lots of disposable pop and elevator music....is it bad? no - it's good, cos i like it. it works in reverse. - SOL sucks to me - someone else loves it. fab. that's the way it works with everything.

ok lucas - i'm looking at my weekend calendar - SCL and I have a date tomorrow night, but I can break it if you can make me a better offer....let's hear what you got in mind!

I disagree, though your reasoning is clear and simple. But otherwise you can't deny what I stated about Bach, Mondriaan and the acknowledgment of differences in quality regardless of one's personal taste and preference.

there's differences in opinion of quality, certainly. but what is the acid-test of what quality is for something so subjective? is there an empirical method of determining? i say the Stones are a quality rock'n'roll band and someone else says there aren't - how do we reconcile? we don't. it's just two opposing opinions.

Not only differences in opinion of quality, but also differences in quality per se, according to my argument. By analysing but even more by describing what factors are in the game. In this case rhythm, structure, melody, the test of time etc. Conclusion can be: I still don't like it but I can hear that it's great music. When there's a substantial amount of consensus about that, then you have some kind of 'proof'. Not waterproof proof, but that's also not necessary and applies only to mathematics and even in that field absolute certainty doesn't always exist (and I can know that ...). Thinking in strictly distinctive terms of objectivity and subjectivity is not realistic in every field. Take for example science, Newton etc. Proven theories have changed etc. Well, we're going very philosophically now (maybe satisfying for Jagger), but it's interesting though. So forget about acid tests and decisive rational and empirical methods. They don't exist in absolute sense, only in relative sense. Well, think of the relativity theory. A good example, given by good old Einstein. And even that theory is not the end.

dance little sister blows my mind.
wow.

whooooooo !!!

WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

the best!! tho silver train gives it a run for it's money!

whooooo
><

x



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-05-08 00:08 by Beelyboy.

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StonesTod

and, no i don't try to convince anyone of anything. i assume ppl hold their opinions as solidly as i hold mine. that's the way it should be. now....do we have a date or not? SCL wants to know....

Posters like you always hide behind this "I'm just stating my opinion" front. You're not stating your opinion just to state your opinion. When you post the same opinion over and over, you're trying to convince, persuade--or at the very least--influence others to think like you. What other reason would you have for doing it? Ninety percent of your "opinion" posts are negative comments about a song/album that someone else likes. Like I said before, you seem to get upset when people like things you don't like.

Well, mr dja, I wrote my last post without having read yours before (I saw it after that). I think in my turn that you come pretty close to what I mean, though StonesTod claims you as a witness of his own opinion, which is just fun.

A nice story. In my opinion you say: I enjoy the music of my daughter very much (of course!) but I know that it's not of great quality. It's simply the reverse of what I said before: one can dislike a piece of art and at the same time acknowledge that it's great art.

dance little sister is great art

beelyboy...Think About it

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StonesTod
ummm...ok, i like the Ray Conniff Singers and I think they are the best. prove me wrong.

The fact that I don't know them is proof enough.

It's useless to talk about taste.........I love peanut butter

__________________________

ROCKMAN

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NICOS
It's useless to talk about taste.........I love peanut butter

Dude!

Heat up a wheat bun in the microwave, spread some PB on the lower half & soak the upper half with honey.

Put them together for the most awesome sandwich ever. Killer, man!

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NICOS
It's useless to talk about taste.........I love peanut butter

We're not talking about taste, NICOS. Besides peanut butter is no art. Even producing it is no art: just take some peanuts and stamp your feet on them.

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lucasd4

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StonesTod

and, no i don't try to convince anyone of anything. i assume ppl hold their opinions as solidly as i hold mine. that's the way it should be. now....do we have a date or not? SCL wants to know....

Posters like you always hide behind this "I'm just stating my opinion" front. You're not stating your opinion just to state your opinion. When you post the same opinion over and over, you're trying to convince, persuade--or at the very least--influence others to think like you. What other reason would you have for doing it? Ninety percent of your "opinion" posts are negative comments about a song/album that someone else likes. Like I said before, you seem to get upset when people like things you don't like.

there are posters like me? really? YAY. I wanna meet - maybe we can form a club or something!!

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kleermaker
peanut butter is no art.

Yes it is. Just ask Iggy.

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NICOS
It's useless to talk about taste.........I love peanut butter

different kinds; different brands different ingredients. you are NOTTT getting off that easy.... fess up mate. man up and fess up!!!

me? super crunch with a generous spot of honey, on rye bread. i'm checking with the tech genius' here for baking time and temps.. everyone loves peanut butter. that says nothing NICOS.


"there's nothing bad about Darryl..."

Good idea. I guess some of the newbies coming on the site get excited and kinda wanna meter out everybody's views. I know I did. Be difficult to police though. Maybe BV should add this to an overall IORR code of conduct.

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StonesTod

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lucasd4

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StonesTod

and, no i don't try to convince anyone of anything. i assume ppl hold their opinions as solidly as i hold mine. that's the way it should be. now....do we have a date or not? SCL wants to know....

Posters like you always hide behind this "I'm just stating my opinion" front. You're not stating your opinion just to state your opinion. When you post the same opinion over and over, you're trying to convince, persuade--or at the very least--influence others to think like you. What other reason would you have for doing it? Ninety percent of your "opinion" posts are negative comments about a song/album that someone else likes. Like I said before, you seem to get upset when people like things you don't like.

there are posters like me? really? YAY. I wanna meet - maybe we can form a club or something!!

The only poster who looks a bit like you, so to speak, or vice versa, is imho Gazza. To me the both of you have something in common that I always appreciate.

Anyone know how Baboon Bro is doing?

they got some peanut butter with chocolate in it. that's always good. like reeses and stuff....??? hits the spot. reeses peeces... with rice krispies!!!







it's the BEST



"there's nothing bad about Darryl..."

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kleermaker

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StonesTod

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lucasd4

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StonesTod

and, no i don't try to convince anyone of anything. i assume ppl hold their opinions as solidly as i hold mine. that's the way it should be. now....do we have a date or not? SCL wants to know....

Posters like you always hide behind this "I'm just stating my opinion" front. You're not stating your opinion just to state your opinion. When you post the same opinion over and over, you're trying to convince, persuade--or at the very least--influence others to think like you. What other reason would you have for doing it? Ninety percent of your "opinion" posts are negative comments about a song/album that someone else likes. Like I said before, you seem to get upset when people like things you don't like.

there are posters like me? really? YAY. I wanna meet - maybe we can form a club or something!!

The only poster who looks a bit like you, so to speak, or vice versa, is imho Gazza. To me the both of you have something in common that I always appreciate.

the streeeetss of lovvvveee !!

that gazza is a total busybody. BEWARE... just sayin'... ask him ANYthing?? dare ya.


"there's nothing bad about Darry..."

beelyboy...Think About it

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Silver Dagger
Anyone know how Baboon Bro is doing?

Before I become a member I used to read alot of his stuff I think he got a bit of a hard time off others sometimes.Sort of quite miss his stuff..I thought he was OK

Anyone know how Baboon Bro is doing?

He was here a week ago ...............Ain't been sighted since



ROCKMAN

colonial i love babboon bro and his posts. he's got total soul. a real wild child in the best ways was always my impression...i used to read him ALL the time before u got here. a really lovable person...very deeply into the spirit of grand music...dunno how he's doin' but always wish him super well; kinda cool u've read some of his posts!!


and aside from all the BS, my own included, seriously now...dance little sister is the total best. it just is. i didn't wish it or plan it or even know about it! it just came, almost as if on it's own holy energy swath...and well, there it was... and everything about it, from top to bottom, says. BEST


but i sure liked the way that she laughed and called me hunnnnneeeyyyyyyyyy....
i like that one too. it's second best. totally.

beelyboy...Think About it



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-05-08 00:52 by Beelyboy.

Baboon Bro? He is my glimmer and I am his twin

Beelyboy..I was talking to a former IORR member once in a bar he told me he doesnt know what to do with himself ever since his girlfriend threw a rock at his computer and then jumped on it..she told him its either Mick or me.He was more or less crying in his drink I didnt know what to say to him.

wow that would be a sad choice because it's hard to find new girl friends.