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DiamondDog7

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Sohoe
...and Boulder Oct 03 1981, which was its last appearance

Hmmm... I would love to hear this one! I've never heard this one live...


The first time I've heard TOPS was on Tattoo You tape. I've listened to it over and over and over, untill the tape was noisy and scrambled all over.
The remastered version of Tattoo You made me listen to it again. Full bass on my Monster headphones. Just lovely!! Love the smooth riff of the bass and Richards guitar!

Here it is from Philadelphia 25/9/81

[depositfiles.com]

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whitem8

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Mathijs

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liddas
Keith's guitar work on Tops, and on the intro in particular, is absolutely sublime. No fancy fingerings (it's in open G by the way), but a sense of time that is out of this world. Those first 4 very fast "glissati" followed by the intro lick ... Enough to transform the ususal ballad in the usual masterpiece!

C

You know the intro os two guitars right - It's Keith in open G doing the sliding part, and Taylor (or Jagger) doing the high pitched, chorused guitar.

By the way, the released track was recorded in 72, 79 and 81, not only '72. The instrumental outtake is from '72, the outtake with vocals but different lyrics from '79 (the best version!), and then there's 2 or 3 outtakes with vocals and as released lyrics from '81.

And it is reported to be played live on September 14, 1981 at the clu gig as well.

Mathijs

Yes and done live in Europe, I think only once. I have a live version of it...
"are you ready keith?" "Woody are you going to tell a terrible joke" Then a false start, then into it.

That is from Buffalo, 092781. It wasn't played in Europe in 82.

Mathijs

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T&A

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Mathijs

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T&A
outtake is a misnomer with this, as with most stones songs. the stones rarely do multiple "takes," per se..

I don't understand what you mean. The Stones are known for recording dozens and dozens of takes of a song, with each take extended to twice or double its normal length, and once a take has been chosen they do the overdubs and then edit it down to a 3.30 song.

Many songs from Some Girls are a perfect example of this method.

Mathijs

you and i are not using the same definition of a "take," i think. the stones rarely do multiple takes. they do a take and then tweak it with overdubs. that's what they did with most of the SG songs - actually what they've almost always done.

even the "reggae" version of SMU is the same basic track as the finished product, contrary to what some think....

What do you mean with "they rarely do multiple takes"? Again, their standard way of recording is to play a song for multiple days live in the studio, and record about 50 takes of it. The tapes then are listened back by Jagger and Richards, and in the instance of Some Girls by Chris Kimsey, and a take is selected as being the best, and this is then worked on for months or even years. Most of the takes that have not been chosen are erased (there's quite some stories of Jagger erasing or confiscating tapes in order to prevent leakage to bootleggers), but even then for some tracks multiple versions have leaked. Take Hang Fire for example. Of other songs we only have the same basic track, but in various forms and shapes. Take Miss You for example, there must be a dozen of so versions, all deviating from the released version, but all with the same bass and drum track, and the same basic two weaving guitars.

Concerning Start Me Up: the reggae version (which according to Kimsey was “take 30-something”) has nothing to do with the finally released version. It's two completely different takes, as we have about 4 or 5 more different takes, including the very long and slow Munich Hilton versions, which features the exact same riff of the released versions.


Mathijs

Tops is GREAT !!
Should have been on "Soup" that whould have made ALL Jimmy Miller albums "Top of the toppers" It would have been an High Five !!
Five fantastics albums in a row !!
The only thing about Soup I don't like is the cover, to much Jagger, Rolling Stones are a group , should be a group picture!

Interesting TOPS outtake:

Love it. Bonus burst of Taylor lyricism long after we thought we had lost him...

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Mathijs

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T&A

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Mathijs

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T&A
outtake is a misnomer with this, as with most stones songs. the stones rarely do multiple "takes," per se..

I don't understand what you mean. The Stones are known for recording dozens and dozens of takes of a song, with each take extended to twice or double its normal length, and once a take has been chosen they do the overdubs and then edit it down to a 3.30 song.

Many songs from Some Girls are a perfect example of this method.

Mathijs

you and i are not using the same definition of a "take," i think. the stones rarely do multiple takes. they do a take and then tweak it with overdubs. that's what they did with most of the SG songs - actually what they've almost always done.

even the "reggae" version of SMU is the same basic track as the finished product, contrary to what some think....

What do you mean with "they rarely do multiple takes"? Again, their standard way of recording is to play a song for multiple days live in the studio, and record about 50 takes of it. The tapes then are listened back by Jagger and Richards, and in the instance of Some Girls by Chris Kimsey, and a take is selected as being the best, and this is then worked on for months or even years. Most of the takes that have not been chosen are erased (there's quite some stories of Jagger erasing or confiscating tapes in order to prevent leakage to bootleggers), but even then for some tracks multiple versions have leaked. Take Hang Fire for example. Of other songs we only have the same basic track, but in various forms and shapes. Take Miss You for example, there must be a dozen of so versions, all deviating from the released version, but all with the same bass and drum track, and the same basic two weaving guitars.

Concerning Start Me Up: the reggae version (which according to Kimsey was “take 30-something”) has nothing to do with the finally released version. It's two completely different takes, as we have about 4 or 5 more different takes, including the very long and slow Munich Hilton versions, which features the exact same riff of the released versions.


Mathijs

old discussion, but I thought it was more like Tod describes, at least since the early '70s. The only song from the era once they started writing in the studio I can think of that I've read going through many takes was "Tumbling Dice." With most other tracks, was there even a pre-existing song to do multiple takes of? I thought they would jam on a part and develop it for several hours, and then only turn it into a song in the overdub stage. But never return to re-track the basic parts.

Existing songs (pre-existing? There's no such thing! It EXISTS already, hence the -ing) will have lots of takes - and not always from the same sessions.

Overdubs on take 3 might influence overdubs on take 28 two years later - if they did do any overdubs on take 3 or whatever. Worked on it, decided to set it aside, take it again with a difference - tempo, key, length, etc, reference the earlier version for notes for whatever.

Start Me Up was obviously something they liked and worked on a lot until finding something that was so shitty, like the reggae version(s).

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skipstone
Great song. Wish it would have been finished and released for Soup. This tune, Waiting On A Friend, Through The Lonely Nights and Save Me - damn, Soup would be insane if it had those on it.

Ditto.
The feel of Waiting on a Friend and Tops was like nothing the Stones had ever done before, very soulful and lilting and melodic.
These songs would have sounded absolutely progressive if they had been completed in 73....

I think a deluxe treatment of GHS with tehse tracks included as well as Criss Cross and the other ones we have heard would be amazing. Too bad it doesn't have the "legend" status of exile. At least there are plenty of finished GHS outtakes that would not require modern-day tinkering.

That 1973 version of Tops up there, the video with the mountains, reveals that Mick didn't stray too far from his original idea other than getting the lyrics figured out for Tattoo You - even the falsetto was there!

I'm glad that this track finally gets some recognition. We have many more to go.

It's is one of there last great ballads................it's almost in the same line as Winter and Moonlight Mile

__________________________

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skipstone
Existing songs (pre-existing? There's no such thing! It EXISTS already, hence the -ing) will have lots of takes - and not always from the same sessions.

Overdubs on take 3 might influence overdubs on take 28 two years later - if they did do any overdubs on take 3 or whatever. Worked on it, decided to set it aside, take it again with a difference - tempo, key, length, etc, reference the earlier version for notes for whatever.

Start Me Up was obviously something they liked and worked on a lot until finding something that was so shitty, like the reggae version(s).

we're looking for evidence of how the Stones worked, not how the recording process might work in general, which I'm familiar with. Before they were in the $, like most bands they brought pre-written songs into the studio. But it's my sense that for most of the 70s they worked them up in the studio, and my sense is that often a riff, not yet a "song," would be jammed on, then if they liked it, the best 3-5 minutes would be transformed through editing and overdubbing, not in subsequent takes. Only more recently, mick has tended to pre-write his material, keith not at all, as described in Life. So unless someone has information otherwise, I do think that the notion of "takes" doesn't apply too well to the Stones' 70s methods.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2011-02-10 01:09 by cc.

They did both - went into the studio with songs written (pre-written? Really? What is it with people saying 'pre' now with everything? Written implies it was...written; when is moot) as well as worked on a riff over and over, writing the song as they went. There's a lot of evidence that they recorded a song over and over and over (hence take one, take two and so on) until they got it right, which would be the 'writing while recording' part you're talking about. Articles/interviews with whoever producer will usually mention that they always had tape ready to roll for whatever the Stones wanted to do and recorded everything. What did Bill Wyman say about Dirty Work? - over 250 tape reels used for those sessions (he said something along the lines of it was a record amount for them). What's obviously different, at least based on everything I've read, is that the Stones did not splice different takes together like George Martin did with The Beatles. What a job that must've been - they did gazillions of takes for songs because they were writing them in the studio usually.

But what you say, "we're looking for evidence of how the Stones worked, not how the recording process might work in general, which I'm familiar with" is just that - that's is the way it works. That is what it is. The 'worked' part is the multiple takes and then overdubbing. Not always most likely but for a lot of tunes. Not really sure what you mean I guess.

Great song, perfect vocals and guitar intro!

absolutely love it....guitars falsetto all of it..

I really like this song, to bad the didn't put it on Goats Head Soup together with "Waiting on a friend" that whould had made Jimmy Millers last record with the guys a Masterpiece !!

Nah..stay away from the falsetto Mick..here is The Falsetto-King:



2 1 2 0

Yes your right " With sssoul" ' every man has the same come on"

This one is now in the "others" part of the Tracking Cookie index - we'll all probably be dead before we get to it alphabetically!

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lsbz
I'm glad that this track finally gets some recognition. We have many more to go.

Yes - one of my favourites too.

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LeonidP
it's a bit corny for my taste (meaning the lyrics). from tattoo, I prefer Worried About You (also corny lyrics i suppose, so can't explain why it is better to me) & Heaven on side 2.

yep I sort of agree with Leonid, good song but out of place from the rest of the album

There was a video on youtube from mnaicck who did a guitar lesson on tops. It isn't there anymore, but I downloaded it and saved it (Whew!) He did a lot of the Tattoo you lessons, I know No use in crying and Worried about you is up there. Check it out!

Wish someone else would do a tops video mnaicck was a little hard to follow.

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stupidguy2

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skipstone
Great song. Wish it would have been finished and released for Soup. This tune, Waiting On A Friend, Through The Lonely Nights and Save Me - damn, Soup would be insane if it had those on it.

Ditto.
The feel of Waiting on a Friend and Tops was like nothing the Stones had ever done before, very soulful and lilting and melodic.
These songs would have sounded absolutely progressive if they had been completed in 73....

I think I'll make a custom GHS CD including these and omitting a couple that are on there.

"No Anchovies, Please"

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skipstone
They did both - went into the studio with songs written (pre-written? Really? What is it with people saying 'pre' now with everything? Written implies it was...written; when is moot) as well as worked on a riff over and over, writing the song as they went. There's a lot of evidence that they recorded a song over and over and over (hence take one, take two and so on) until they got it right, which would be the 'writing while recording' part you're talking about. Articles/interviews with whoever producer will usually mention that they always had tape ready to roll for whatever the Stones wanted to do and recorded everything. What did Bill Wyman say about Dirty Work? - over 250 tape reels used for those sessions (he said something along the lines of it was a record amount for them). What's obviously different, at least based on everything I've read, is that the Stones did not splice different takes together like George Martin did with The Beatles. What a job that must've been - they did gazillions of takes for songs because they were writing them in the studio usually.

But what you say, "we're looking for evidence of how the Stones worked, not how the recording process might work in general, which I'm familiar with" is just that - that's is the way it works. That is what it is. The 'worked' part is the multiple takes and then overdubbing. Not always most likely but for a lot of tunes. Not really sure what you mean I guess.

i'm not sure either, but there are distinct different takes including drums and bass on boots of :
fool to cry
i got a letter / jah jam
and , dancing in the light
i'm sure there's more (like good time women , all down the line )

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I think I'll make a custom GHS CD including these and omitting a couple that are on there.

I think the original version of Tops from Goats Head Soup sessions has no vocals on it though. Only instrumental.

Waiting on a Friend has vocals but they are different from the version released on Tattoo You.

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kowalski

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I think I'll make a custom GHS CD including these and omitting a couple that are on there.

I think the original version of Tops from Goats Head Soup sessions has no vocals on it though. Only instrumental.

Really? Enjoy these vocals:

This is the alternate vocal version from Emotional Rescue sessions.

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kleermaker

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kowalski

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I think I'll make a custom GHS CD including these and omitting a couple that are on there.

I think the original version of Tops from Goats Head Soup sessions has no vocals on it though. Only instrumental.

Really? Enjoy these vocals:

This the third version. First version is without vocals, November '72. Second version is from LA, '73. Third version, first with vocals, is from late '79, Tattoo version is from mid '81.

Mathijs