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kleermaker
Who, with any musical and human feelings, wouldn't want to hear this again and doesn't miss it terribly? I don't think EC could do this, his playing is too predictably blues only: always the same pattern.
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MathijsQuote
kleermaker
Who, with any musical and human feelings, wouldn't want to hear this again and doesn't miss it terribly? I don't think EC could do this, his playing is too predictably blues only: always the same pattern.
This clip does not show Taylor at his best, isn't it? For a moment I thought this was Flip the Switch, and not Taylor! This clip misses all the magic marks the original Sway has -this is just over-playing with some fairly lame technical tricks. It misses the build-up, frasing and melodic content of the original solo.
Concerning Taylor or Clapton with the Stones: it would not have made any difference. Sticky Fingers and Exile would have been the same brialliant albums, Goats and IORR would have been the same less-fantastic albums, and then Clapton would have left the Stones a bored drug addict complaining about writing credits, just as Taylor. We would have the same discussions here -did Clapton write Time Waits FNO, why is Clapton's solo on Sway too short, is that Clapton or Keith on Dead Flowers etc.
There really would have been no difference at all.
Mathijs
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liddas
I am not a great clapton fan, but lets render unto Caesar ...
To see Clapton "only" as a guitarist is a very narrow minded point of view. He was "only" a guitarist when he quit the BBs in 66 but, paraphrasing one of the greatest Australian poets of our times, he had "other plans". So, by the time our fave band was in the process of recording Aftermath, EC formed Cream. I think it is fair to say that at that time EC and the Stones were not exactly on the same wave lenghth.
When 3 years later the stones needed to replace Jones, they did not look for a traditional harp player, or a polivalent multistrumentalist session player (after all, Banquet and Bleed could be taken easily on the road with only one guitar in the band - see rnr circus). No, they hired a guitarist, a "virtuoso" guitarist. They never had a "virtuoso" guitarist in the band. Why so? Times had changed. Guess who was one of major factor of the change? Cream.
Today everything is taken for granted, but in 66 Cream were groundbreaking. Those were the days when improvisation in a rock blues was born.
By 69 Clapton was no longer "only" a guitarist. He was "also" a celebrity, a frontman and a competent songwriter. Could he have fitted in the Stones? Probably yes. Musically - Layla and Exile are not so far distant. They were friends. EC played well with Charlie and Bill on the Wolf london sessions.
But I think that, as always, Mick and Keith wanted to do it their own way. And I think they were right, and not only because generally "supergroups" are super only on paper: too many cooks spoil the soup.
It is not surprising that when also Taylor grew up and matured as a musician he decided that he too had to walk his own way. And it is worth to mention that his plans contemplated a journey that EC had already done. And that Jack Bruce wanted to continue ...
C
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kleermaker
Well, at least you have a much better pic/avatar now than before, and I remember having said something about it, I thought something like "scary", but it wouldn't surprise me if you deny the causality.
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kleermaker
Anyway, speak for yourself and not for others. Seems to me another good advice. And it's for free.
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kleermaker
Btw: how can one prefer a rather vulgar and one dimensional song like Star star to Silvertrain? Teach me that, please. But I'm really glad that you can appreciate 100 years ago as a great song
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His Majesty
All this arguing about white boy blues guitarists, they all lack some key ingredients! The sex, the fun!
This is hows it's done!
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kleermaker
The last things blues is about are sex and fun.
It seems to me that you miss a certain feeling for music if you state that.
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kleermaker
It seems to me that you just like Mathijs miss a certain feeling for music if you state that.
You and Mathijs have in common that you don't like Taylor because he gets too much attention and draws it away from the Stones, id est Mick and Keith. That's also an important reason why Mathijs prefers Ron Wood's playing with the Stones. He not a factor of any importance. And to Mathijs the Stones are only M & K.
Of course Mathijs is entitled to dislike the Sway solo up here, but he misses all the hidden feelings that the public understands so well. At a certain moment they can't control themselves any longer because that Sway solo really got them in its sway. That's the magic of Mick Taylor's playing. You must be musical to feel that. It has nothing to do with guitar technics (and I'm not going to judge Mathijs' knowledge of guitar technics, because that's not needed).
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Amsterdamned
What I miss in this topic are strictly musical arguments,
That's a pity to me.
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Amsterdamned
... not very tasteful or effective.
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wild_horse_pete
Talking about functional nudling.
Clapton knows how to start a solo and to end it also, he never solo above a song like Taylor did especially in `73.
About feeling, it`s just a matter of taste, you can`t say Clapton or Taylor has or hasn`t got feeling, i think when you`re acting on that platform of top musician you really got feeling other wise you don`t get there at all.
The tone is also a mather of taste, they got there own tone and you can like it or not.
Timing I think is Clapton better, just the fact like i said before, he knows how to start and end a solo.
Here you are!
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His MajestyQuote
kleermaker
The blues is about life!!!
Real good music is always about the essence of life. In my narrow minded view sex and fun aren't part of the essence of life, however stupid that may sound in your ears. And don't think that I don't like sex and fun.
Another thing (maybe something more apt for a new thread): how often do you listen to the so called big four? As for me: seldom. I listen pretty regularly to GHS but incredibly more often to the live music from those albums during their peak, with Taylor 'overplaying' and 'widdling' (those 'less intelligent' qualifications really piss me off).
I find the big four wonderful albums, with fantastic songs, but I can't listen to them all the time without getting bored, because something is missing on those great albums with maybe the best songs ever written in blues/rock history. The missing element is the performance, the 'Taylor'-factor, and I don't mean Taylor himself! Keith wasn't able to compensate that, he wasn't able to lay down the real story of the song, like Taylor did during their concerts on stage, what you call overplaying and widdling and certainly also noodling. I think both you and Mathijs don't 'get' the story of the Stones songs told by Taylor. At least Mathijs needs a storyteller like Wood to understand the story of the song. Or maybe he (and you) don't get the story at all or don't need any story at all. Because Wood has nothing to say in the band (in both senses of the word).
In a former post I already said that the Biggest Mistake of K and M is their illusion that they could do it all by themselves, without a third man. Later on each of them even thought he could make it on his own. History has proven that they were two times heavily wrong. Two Capital Mistakes. I'm afraid that the Exile bonus CD will show that Big Mistake once more, which is the reason why I don't have high expectations of those 'new' numbers. I don't have great doubts about their quality as songs, but I have great doubts about their performance.
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stoneswashed77
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One has a good sound, tone and phrasing, feels the rhythm and drives the song to another level during the solo, wastes no notes but instead plays every note with intention and meaning, which makes it sensefull, interesting and a joy to watch and listen. and then there is the other.
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His Majesty
You'll no doubt disagree, but Claptons solos on I feel Free, Sunshine of your Love(including the nice Blue Moon quote), solo and lead lines on SWALBR etc are small pieces of perfection. Melodic, tasteful, great tone and very effective in context.
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Amsterdamned
So in the end we all can conclude that everybody has his own opinion,and everybody defends or judges (not me in the least) other musicians.
That's fine ,always a bit of a battle..
What I miss in this topic are strictly musical arguments,not influenced by nostagia. Just forget how famous someone is or was,are MJ or KR responsable for the Stones sound(Mathijs) ,Clapton is great (T Dice) Clapton is crap(me.. but talk about feeling sond ,tone,timing ,functional noodling or not and why ,etc.
That's a pity to me.
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Mathijs
I hear one guitarist who've stolen all his licks from SRV, and another who'se way past his expriry date.
Mathijs
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kleermaker
Real good music is always about the essence of life. In my narrow minded view sex and fun aren't part of the essence of life, however stupid that may sound in your ears. And don't think that I don't like sex and fun.
Another thing (maybe something more apt for a new thread): how often do you listen to the so called big four?
I think both you and Mathijs don't 'get' the story of the Stones songs told by Taylor.
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kleermaker
... are able to hear the real musical feelings being expressed by the band with Taylor as a very special and unique 'spokesman' so to say.
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His MajestyQuote
kleermaker
... are able to hear the real musical feelings being expressed by the band with Taylor as a very special and unique 'spokesman' so to say.