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Father Ted
Always amusing to hear you old-timers (and the prematurely aged) whining about young upstart threats to your increasingly short list of heroes.

Am I supposed to be the old timer to which you refer?

Ha ha - do you resemble that remark is what you're saying.

Simple answer: Yes, he's a good guitar player.

Complex answer: He's lucky that he fell in so naturally with Larry Mullen & Adam Clayton & Bono. While I think that Bono has the chops to have fronted another band, gone solo, etc., I think that Edge, Larry & Adam fall into the category of "The Sum Is Larger Than The Individual Parts". While they are all technicly proficient enough to do what they do, none of them seem to be getting a lot of calls to play on other people's albums. It seems that with each other, they become U2 and no one can touch their ability to play U2 music. On their own... I'm not sure. Maybe they're all uncredited virtuoso studio musicians and I just haven't heard of it.

I must say, if I can just listen to the music, I actually enjoy a lot of U2's stuff. As soon as Bono starts to talk, bye bye. The individual parts of the music fit together to make something bigger than just the four guys involved.

The other thing that leads me to say Edge is a good player... BB King trusted him to play behind him. I don't know if anyone hear can make that claim. I can't. If BB King will share a stage with you that get's you some points in my book.

Peace,
Mr DJA

Theres a line a a Who song: "Anyone can reproduce but a few can play". That one fits my oppinion pretty well.

A great guitar player for me, as long as we talk about rock, must (in no particular order)
- write good songs
- touch people with his playing
- have a recognizable ("signature") sound
- be a band player
- a driving force for the groove of the band

The Edge fulfills all of this criterias, for me it's no question he is a great guitar player. Others are Keith, Knopfler, Gilmour just to name a few.

Technical skills may help with the things mentioned above but are not a must. Shredding is sport, not music.

I think The Edge is a very good sound and texture creator for their songs. I love Achtung Baby so much, not just because Bono stopped being a preacher and took on differet post-modern personas (injecting BADLY-needed sleeze and humor and decay into his delivery), not just because of the then-innovative industrial wash that insanely re-worked the rythm section, but mostly because of the Edge's guitar and synth blends that were, for me, much more musically passionate, interesting and forward-thinking than he'd ever been before.





[thepowergoats.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-27 00:23 by jamesfdouglas.

He did the worst thing a guitarist can do is building a style. I remember reading an interview where he said "oh I stay away from the 3rd" = he relies on the 4th and the 5th hence the Walmart-gospel-like quality of some U2 songs. Plus the (over)use of harmonics and the pedalboard, well...

Otoh his solo on New Year's Day is quite expressive (as well the song he sang lead on : "Numb" ) [en.wikipedia.org])



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-28 15:45 by dcba.

YOU should check Nels Cline from Wilco and then tell me...
For me best guitar player RIGHT NOW, period!!!
Some examples...
Carlitos
Tenerife

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skipstone
Ha ha - do you resemble that remark is what you're saying.

No, I'm actually in my twenties. I'm amused and proud he though I was an old timer.

Nels Cline = non-midget Nils Lofgren

The Edge has limited technical ability, but he marshals his effects well.

I am not a huge fan of his but he has a very unique sound.

The Edge - the architect -its a good name.He`s humble architect and his emotions seems to be hidden , he`s introvertic .Not typical rock star with big ego but he`s notes are memorable -One , In the name of Love , many others.

It's worth remembering that when U2 first appeared, The Edge was seen, rightly, as a true innovator. Nobody had played the guitar like that before. And love him or hate him, he's made that guitar-sound his own. And I'm not really a big fan of U2.

It's too bad about Wilco; for me I mean. I just can not get into them. It's Tweedy who bores me to tears. And you're right carlito - Nels Cline is a fine guitar player; and the drummer Glenn Kotch is one of my favorite drummers on the circuit.
but like it is said that the sum is bigger than it's parts at times; here it is like the parts are better than the sum.

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dcba
(as well the song he sang lead on : "Numb" ) [en.wikipedia.org])

What!!?? Wikipedia? What the fock is that about?

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KeefintheNight82

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skipstone
Ha ha - do you resemble that remark is what you're saying.

No, I'm actually in my twenties. I'm amused and proud he though I was an old timer.

HA HA! OK! That is funny.

I like U2. They're good stuff has an exciting sound and feel. I could care less about their stuff from the 2000's. I just remember their hit songs "Beautiful Day" and "Vertigo" from back then and thought they were generic sounding, it didn't contain what I like about them. But that's no different from someone who likes the Stones but who can't stand anything from Steel Wheels on.

Oh, I'm not guitar player but just wanted to ad my 2 cent'.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-28 19:54 by ryanpow.

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deadegad

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Amsterdamned

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DandelionPowderman
<Jimmy Page is not the "guitar standard" to me.
He is different but not better then the Edge imo.>

Of course Page is a better player than The Edge, but not in The Edge's musical landscape. The Edge operates in a narrow field, in which he's the expert. Page is very accomplished in blues, jazz, rock'n'roll and country, and brings a tremendously variety to his playing. The Edge does not. Yet, he is an excellent player.

My two cents

Just my opinion ,but Page is a very average guitar player to me, just like Clapton. Like 1000000 of rockers and blues players out there.
Let alone a Jazz player. He wouldn't make it one bar.
I respect his fame and song writing.

Can you please tell me some guitar players you think are good, both jazz guitarists and popular rock guitarists? and maybe why you think they are better than the Calptons' and Pages' ?

I like these discussions and am keen to gain some insight. Thanks.

Well here I go :

Most Jazz Rock players are good in playing Rock and Jazz.
They play both, simple as that.

Page is a rock player,playing very harmonic melodies and solos,only using the keyrelated scales ,related to the chords he is using. That will be one minor or major bluesscale in his case. Just like Clapton

Jazz Rock players do this too,but enrich their playing with chord scales.
If you would play E-7b5 A7b13-Dmin(maj7), a JR player would use (for example):
G-(min) melodic - Bb(min) melodic- D(min ,melodic,sounding Jazzy,but still with a heavy Rock feel.Players like Page,Clapton, would stick to Dminor bluesscale only over all three the chords mentioned.
It makes me fall asleep.

Listen to Robben Ford, Barry Finnerty,Allan Holdworth, Frank Gambale etc,it's more then only fast and shredding,they are contemporary players enriching Rock music.Page and Clapton did what they had to do,enjoy them,I respect them, Great songwriters.
But as I explained in an harmonic context:utterly boring and predictable.

Jeff Beck,Hendrix and Taylor are one of the few Blues Rock Players that deal very creative and unpolished with their harmonic limitations imo, and that's what makes them genius..I love them.


.

Alright Amsterdamned. That's cool. I myself was wondering a little bit in terms of examples (I'm not exactly a jazz fan but that does not mean I don't like jazz) and that's a pretty fukcing good explanation I think - especially in regards to the keys and chords etc...

interesting topic

two questions to Amseerdamned:
what notes are in the mentioned jass scales ?
do you think the mentioned rock guitarmen ever use chords like E-7 b5 ?

6853

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6853
interesting topic

two questions to Amseerdamned:
what notes are in the mentioned jass scales ?
do you think the mentioned rock guitarmen ever use chords like E-7 b5 ?

6853

Shure!!,Gary Moore , (Still got the blues to mention one..)
In Fact all Bluesplayers..They al use 7/9 chords,don't they?

A C7/9 chord contains C-E- G -Bb-D.
Skip the root and you got E-G-Bb-D,and its an E-7b5.

Try G (min) melodic over this one

G-A-Bb-C -D- E- F#-G. :The G min melodic scale. Start playing from the guide tone(F#)
and a new world opens there for you.It's more jazzy and interesting then the common used Cmaj bluesscale imo. (They got the F#,the blue note in common)But in the end it's a matter of taste of course.

How about the song "Breathe" off their new album (No Line on the Horizon)?

That song features a nice, fat, bottom-heavy riff, pretty straightforward, no effects. It's actually my favorite song on the album due to the Edge's badass riffing.

Don't tell me the guy couldn't play blues, or virtuoso leads if he wanted to take a few months to focus on that, but he doesn't...

He has a style that's unique to his band, and he sticks with it. I personally think he's a genius.

Funny you mention that song. I think it's actually one of their worst most boring songs. Ever. I'm amazed it even made the album.

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Amsterdamned

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6853
interesting topic

two questions to Amseerdamned:
what notes are in the mentioned jass scales ?
do you think the mentioned rock guitarmen ever use chords like E-7 b5 ?

6853

Shure!!,Gary Moore , (Still got the blues to mention one..)
In Fact all Bluesplayers..They al use 7/9 chords,don't they?

A C7/9 chord contains C-E- G -Bb-D.
Skip the root and you got E-G-Bb-D,and its an E-7b5.

Try G (min) melodic over this one

G-A-Bb-C -D- E- F#-G. :The G min melodic scale. Start playing from the guide tone(F#)
and a new world opens there for you.It's more jazzy and interesting then the common used Cmaj bluesscale imo. (They got the F#,the blue note in common)But in the end it's a matter of taste of course.

this all makes sense
yes gary more uses that : b-7b5, e7+ , a- , but he is eceptional is nt he ?
yes blues is all about sevents and ninths, but flat 5 is a little more adcanced ..

what is the most famous use of that chord

i would think
"yesterdary all my troubles aeeem so far away "
C B-7b5 E7 A-


i also love the sequence

C / F#-b5 B7+ / E- / G /

you start in the key of C , but then, through those link chords
you are suddenly in the key of G,



any opinions ?

what is the most famous use of that chord

i would think
"yesterdary all my troubles aeeem so far away "
C B-7b5 E7 A-


i also love the sequence

C / F#-b5 B7+ / E- / G /

you start in the key of C , but then, through those link chords
you are suddenly in the key of G,



any opinions ?





It't an interesting evening

You are already in the Key of G!.The C chord is the 4th degree in the key of G unless you want the G chord as the 5th degree in the key of C (deceptive cadence)


C: Make it C Lydian or b min pent
F#-b5:Make it A min melodic
B7+5( aug): Make it C min melodic
Emin:Make it E min Harmonic
G Make it G maj or F# pent.
Sounds great!

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Amsterdamned
what is the most famous use of that chord

i would think
"yesterdary all my troubles aeeem so far away "
C B-7b5 E7 A-


i also love the sequence

C / F#-b5 B7+ / E- / G /

you start in the key of C , but then, through those link chords
you are suddenly in the key of G,



any opinions ?





It't an interesting evening

You are already in the Key of G!.The C chord is the 4th degree in the key of G unless you want the G chord as the 5th degree in the key of C (deceptive cadence)


C: Make it C Lydian or b min pent
F#-b5:Make it A min melodic
B7+5( aug): Make it C min melodic
Emin:Make it E min Harmonic
G Make it G maj or F# pent.
Sounds great!

"You are already in the Key of G!." dont agree i start in the key of C absolutely ,fx I can got go fx F or A minor or whatever, but then you take that rollercoaster chord secuence and you end up, on your feet, in the key of G minor and can do what ever from there in that key. but like you say it is all a matter of taste.. yea i realise both chords are in the "chordfamily" of each other ( 4 th and 5th) so to speak, but neverteless..

"sounds great" absolutely agree, and it all in my opinion from the chord sequence
the scales are just the "icing on on the cake"....? you can go from there and create a beautiful melody in the key of G

As I stated in my last post : It can be the key of C if you make it a deceptive cadence...

Good Luck.

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firebird
Theres a line a a Who song: "Anyone can reproduce but a few can play". That one fits my oppinion pretty well.

A great guitar player for me, as long as we talk about rock, must (in no particular order)
- write good songs
- touch people with his playing
- have a recognizable ("signature") sound
- be a band player
- a driving force for the groove of the band

The Edge fulfills all of this criterias, for me it's no question he is a great guitar player. Others are Keith, Knopfler, Gilmour just to name a few.

Technical skills may help with the things mentioned above but are not a must. Shredding is sport, not music.

This is the question, agree 100%. This man is right........... but , Where's Ritchie Blackmore???

To use Taylor in an argument of adventurous choice of notes in a solo, vs. for example Page is ridiculous. I have never been a big Page fan, but I have huge repsect for his voicings and tunings. And when watching him solo, on live stage in footage from 73, 74 75 he knows exactly where he is at all times in pretty sophisticated timing and chordings for his songs. Eg "Kashmir, Celebration Day, Achilles, Ocean and all that LZ stuff. He did not cut his chops by plying 1-4-5 blues all day long but was one of Britains' top session players who must have done every kind of music.
Again - I am not a wild Page fan, and prefer Taylor myself, but these are all personal matters of taste. Taylor is very fluid and agile, even inventive at times, but certainly not an innovator or pioneer in choices of notes . As great as his solo on "time waits for no one" is, it is pretty pedantic. Up and down, and then down and up again.
Amsterdamned obviously can play, and listen too, but a flatted 5th can just as clean of a harmony as a straight 5th in the right context. Willie Nelson hits all kinds of bizarre notes in his solos. I have ll the respect for anyone who approaches his solos from that angle. e.g take C 7/9 drop the root and then solo in G , but any musician worth his slat will arrive at this without the math.
Besides - in this particular case by dropping the root from a C7/9 chord would it not turn it into an E MINOR with a flat 5th?

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Palace Revolution 2000
T e.g take C 7/9 drop the root and then solo in G , but any musician worth his slat will arrive at this without the math.

Solo in G(min) melodic over C7/9 without a math??
I don't think so..certainly no Rock players like Page, Taylor ,Beck or even Hendrix....