Just wondering: Bitch, is it just a regular rock song, or was it a beginning to Punk.

More garage I would think

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NICOS
More garage I would think

Maybe somewhere in between - but quite another rythm than a regular rock song, a much faster beat, which is the basic for Punk.

In general, I think the stones live sound has a punkish flair to it, at least It used to. but for this song I'd say no. It swings too much for punk, the guitar work is more complex plus it has brass in it.

Too rootsy for punk. Punk was very white, straight four beat. No funk.

The Pretty Things live were quite punkish in the 60's, as far as performance is concerned. The Clash and defenitely the Damned seem to be influenced by them

only if we define punk so broadly as to be virtually meaningless and just a synonym for rock. The concept of "pre-punk" is much abused, imo.

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behroez
The Pretty Things live were quite punkish in the 60's, as far as performance is concerned. The Clash and defenitely the Damned seem to be influenced by them

I'll translate for you the text of the presenter (after some English he's speaking Dutch of course):

"The tv watchers stay linked until 21.00 o'clock, we continue by radio broadcasting. Here they are: The Pretty Things."

Well, you all could translate that, couldn't you? Barn Owl in the first place, because he knows everything about everything.

Behroez, I seriously want to advise you to reconsider your words to me and why you felt insulted, regardless if I said those words deliberately or not (I didn't, but in fact that's irrelevant). Why did you felt insulted. Just think about that for yourself. You don't have to answer me. But to me any threat by anyone is just unacceptable, however much you (feel/are) insulted. Think about it, don't answer, just think about it. I'm sure you'll understand that threatening someone for such a 'reason' is plainly unacceptable.

...what, no pictures of edam cheese or windmills?

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Barn Owl
...what, no pictures of edam cheese or windmills?

One thing is for sure: YOU aren't Dutch at all and you have, to put it in your own words, "far too much time on your hands". Have fun.

Greetings from Holland and goodbye, Owl.

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NICOS

...speechless!

Kleermaker, laat je niet zo meeslepen met de commentaren die ze hier plaatsen ........sommige hebben niks anders te doen

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kleermaker

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Barn Owl
...what, no pictures of edam cheese or windmills?

One thing is for sure: YOU aren't Dutch at all and you have, to put it in your own words, "far too much time on your hands". Have fun.

Greetings from Holland and goodbye, Owl.

...goodbye cheesemaker....er kleerbaker...I mean kleermaker.

Kleermaker i understand Dutch. After the war had finished in 1988 there was nothing but bad memories for me in Iran, so i moved to South Africa (Transkei, Herschel) and i met my wife there. We moved to Holland beginning 1990 so my Dutch is fluent. The one thing that really annoice me in Holland is that people think that they can just say anything to any one and make deliberate insults and that it just is okay, so some one has all the right to insult you but you're not allowed to punch the guy in the teeth? Anyway i said i'll take your word for it, the apology and the "...however my last sentence stand" I wanted to edit out, but the thread is closed so that was not possible anymore.

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NICOS

Hey, old Greek!

Menin aeide thea, Peleiadeo Achileos, oulomenen, he muri' Achaiois alge ehteke, pollas d'ifthimous psuchas Aidi proiapsen heroon, autous de eloria teuche kunessiv oiovoisi te pasi, Dios d'eteleieto boule, ex hoe de ta prota diasteten erisante Atreides te anax androon kai dios Achilleus.

So actually I'm Greek too

In the meanwhile working and listening to Charlotte, 1972 STP-tour, a great listening.

I just removed this comment ...........why.............. because I ones told myself not to react on topics like this

Have fun.................... that's all

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-13 00:21 by NICOS.

Anyhoo.....back to the Bitch of the matter.

Not PUNK.

Punk was attitude and abandon, not just a fast beat.

Check out White Riot or Minor Threat.
Despair, Angst and Aimlessness in music form.

Lies may be more punk than any other Stones tune.
Its got the anger and the drive...

Its hard to retain your punk edge when you own 5 houses.

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behroez
Kleermaker i understand Dutch. After the war had finished in 1988 there was nothing but bad memories for me in Iran, so i moved to South Africa (Transkei, Herschel) and i met my wife there. We moved to Holland beginning 1990 so my Dutch is fluent. The one thing that really annoice me in Holland is that people think that they can just say anything to any one and make deliberate insults and that it just is okay, so some one has all the right to insult you but you're not allowed to punch the guy in the teeth? Anyway i said i'll take your word for it, the apology and the "...however my last sentence stand" I wanted to edit out, but the thread is closed so that was not possible anymore.

Then we shake hands, Behroez. You have to realise that we have another culture here than you're used to, but most of us are nice to strangers, and refugees are always welcome. Dus zand erover. Beledigingen of woorden die als zodanig worden opgevat maar misschien helemaal niet zo bedoeld zijn, horen niet met geweld beantwoord te worden. Ik denk ook dat Nederlanders zich over het algemeen niet zo gauw beledigd voelen. Ook een kwestie van cultuur. Anyway, violence is bad. You're the last person I have to tell that. I appreciate that you have edited out your last sentence this way.

Quote Kleermaker
In the meanwhile working and listening to Charlotte, 1972 STP-tour, a great listening

That's the way to survive

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NICOS
Your right behroez that people in Holland saying everthing what comes to mind.................but saying that all people from Holland saying insulting things is not right..........at least I hope so

No, ofcourse not, I've got many very good and very dear Dutch friends here, i love the country and i love the freedom, it is just....you know in Iran (and i am sure that in countries like Greece it is actually likewise) when you insult some one you're going to get it. There are sorten things you just don't say to some one else. the only time i came close to insulting some one here was when i called someone a doode and i really didn't like doing it because i knew he didn't like it but he had been stalking all my posts that night and became very provocative. After i called him doode he challenged me for five rounds of boxing, i can appreciate that so we smoked the pipe of peace together instead.

Bitch is a great Rock song. Great guitar licks. One of the best Keith Solos. A great horn line. Just the opposite of punk. Punk sucks @*@(@&

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NICOS

Hey, old Greek!

Menin aeide thea, Peleiadeo Achileos, oulomenen, he muri' Achaiois alge ehteke, pollas d'ifthimous psuchas Aidi proiapsen heroon, autous de eloria teuche kunessiv oiovoisi te pasi, Dios d'eteleieto boule, ex hoe de ta prota diasteten erisante Atreides te anax androon kai dios Achilleus.

So actually I'm Greek too

In the meanwhile working and listening to Charlotte, 1972 STP-tour, a great listening.

For those who don't understand these old Greek words: it's the very beginning of the Ilias of Homer, a great literary work as everyone knows. I thought that Nicos would like that. Just a nicely meant reaction to the stereotype but nice picture of Holland (actually I live near those world-famous mills!).

Bitch is no punk at all. Just an ordinary not-so-good Stonessong imo. Satisfaction would rather be punky than Bitch, regarding it's lyrics. Or Doncha Bother Me from Aftermath, about boreness. Anyway, the Stones are no punk and it's only too bad that they since 1973/74 tried to be hip and trendy. That did not good to their music.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-13 00:50 by kleermaker.

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NICOS

Actually this was in the good old days...................

Now it's more like this ........bit over doing ofcourse



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kleermaker
Bitch is no punk at all. Just an ordinary not-so-good Stonessong imo.

Having in mind your comment on Brown Sugar you think Sticky Fingers is a rather weak effort ?

Nice to see you changed your view concerning your idea of a "self-ban"...

What happened ?

Bitch is a soul song.





Namely 'Get Ready' by Smokey Robinson.

Monk Punk

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shortfatfanny

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kleermaker
Bitch is no punk at all. Just an ordinary not-so-good Stonessong imo.

Having in mind your comment on Brown Sugar you think Sticky Fingers is a rather weak effort ?

Nice to see you changed your view concerning your idea of a "self-ban"...

What happened ?

Well, actually quite a lot of people were glad I quit. Sorry for them, but to comfort them I can say that my posting tempo will drasticly diminish in the next days.

Brown Sugar has the potential of a great song and it has proven itself by the live performances beginning seventies (I don't mention the name of a certain guitarist). I said: I find the studio version of BS rather boring, live it's great. But Bitch doesn't work for me live neither. I don't like the constantly selfrepeating rhythm guitar (Taylor) and Keith's solo's are poor imo, on the studio album as well as live.

Interested to hear what you think, mtaylor?

I agree with other posters, that it swings and rolls too much for punk. As straight-driving and aggressive as it is, it's too melodic, too many embellishments and subleties to be punk. Maybe a hybrid of rock (and soul, as someone suggested!) plus that special sauce unique to the Stones.

To me, only early Stones are really punk. Or maybe "roots punk," or something like that

...one of my all-time favourite dutch songs: