I dont think it has. Do we have interviews with Keith or others talking about MR and tunings? Any info about this song? On clips on youtube you can see him play it in standard tuning. And it sounds right etc.

And i know there is a thread about this but no real answers, no sources.

No way. There's no way/reason he would've played it in Open G when in standard is totally the way to go. It's easier to play and it's very basic. It's a blues in B (structured like it was in E with the capo ont he 7th)...and Keith wouldn't complicate things by playing it in Open G.

Every time he's played MR, he's had a capo on the 7th. The way his fingers move and the guitar sounds has never implied that it was in Open G. Keith likes Open G for more country/major songs for fuller chords (Start Me Up, Brown Sugar, JJF, YCAGWYW, HTW). MR involves the minor penatomic scale and would be out of place in an open G tuning.

Check this out ..... this I think is in normal tuning but barred at whatever (7th perhaps) fret. Anyone ?

Thanks Justin et al, and I know, it is standrad but there is a fight on youtube about this:

is there an interview with keith about MR where he says it is standard tuning? I know it is and I play it like that and it sounds right etc etc but i need hard evidence.

People on YouTube are way off. They all think that EVERY stones song is Open G (you may have seen my post on there explaining that!).

I am confident that Keith has never used an Open G tuning for MR. It's too complicated (compared to the standard tuning method). People need to get past the intro of the song to see that Open G is not how to do it. The fills Keith does in the middle...the small licks during the slow part..it's all open strings with the capo on the 7.

When are people trying to prove he used Open G? I can guarantee you from '89 to present...he's NEVER EVER used open G for MR. Since I'm a younger fan, I don't know much about anything earlier than that. But of course I've seen footage and even the earliest footage like on "Ladies and Gentleman" you can see him with a capo on the 7th. There is no way to prove what he did in the studio original as there is no video or photos...but considering it sounds pretty much like how he's always played it...it's still in standard tuning with capo on 7.

Bottom line....the open G version of the intro sounds way off at the end.

My point too. Ive posted on youtube as well (and saw your post), I'm fighting about this. Lol. Ive never doubted it's standard tuning and I ply it like that, almost note for note like Keith, you cant do that in open tuning and it sounds wrong.

Funny thing is that the first time I (thought I) learnt the song, I was playing it in open g with a capo at the 4th fret. Occasionally I still play it that way. Quite easy and it doesn't sound bad at all.

Fact is that Rambler was never done in open G.

C

Great video to judge from 71.





Marquee Club 1971.
Look at 00:48 - 00:53

A huge closeup on 01:10-01:11

1. Keith's playing way past the 4th fret (canceling the Open G theory)

2. Keith's fingers are not barring any chords to create the riff. (another strike against the Open G myth)

3. Keith hardly moves around the fretboard but remains very near to that capo which is on the 7th fret. (Strike 3 against the Open G theory.)

Another thing...it's all about the science of the riff. When you do it in standard you're taking off the middle finger off that D-chord structure in 2nd part of the riff. It's a pull off sound.

In open G...the way he plays it during that part he has to hammer on to get that sound. Not the same.

very impressive paulywayl, that you played that on a acoustic guitar.is that a martin d-28 you are playing?

Quote
The Greek
very impressive paulywayl, that you played that on a acoustic guitar.is that a martin d-28 you are playing?

Er ... that ain't ME, that's somebody I dug up on youtube. I wish it WAS me !!

Wow, some people are entirely clueless!!!

Every single version of Midnight Rambler I have heard has the main guitar in standard tuning with capo at 7th fret. The original studio versions slide guitars were most likely recorded using open E tuning though.

Call their bluff and get them to post some audio/visual proof, there's plenty versions on you tube to disprove their way off open G ideas.

>> Is there an interview with Keith about MR where he says it is standard tuning? <<

(The middle section is) straight concert tuning. What's always fascinated me is just to have no hand on it
(motions with his left hand, indicating a guitar neck). Just to go... as if to just strike the guitar with one hand.
(It's j)ust a straight E to D, hammering it off to straight open across and down the way.
- Keith Richards, 1988, quoted on [www.timeisonourside.com]

3 pound 10 please, LA Forum :E

>> There is no way to prove what he did in the studio original as there is no video or photos. <<

it's not proof, of course, but it sure looks like Rambler that he's taking a break from in this shot:


- 1969, courtesy of coowouters



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-01-29 22:56 by with sssoul.

Interesting all of this, and I also found that interview on TIOMS but what is concert tuning (with sssoul)?
A couple of days ago i tried to post the Marquee video but I guess im banned from his youtube page And this is not about bashing him or anybody on youtube, just debating the tuning. And Justin, very well put, the science of the riff, that's the whole point. It is a standard tuning riff, the bluesy licks, the up tempo riff - everything.
Great with sssoul! - maybe that is MR? Brian present in the studio (the credited but silent African drum on MR), Keith's guitar (sounds like his Les Paul on Let it Bleed), the standard tuning, the capo, photo taken in February 1969 (same session as the one of Brian banging the African drum)... This has to be Keith between takes of MR!

<but what is concert tuning (with sssoul)?>

Concert tuning is spanish tuning aka traditional tuning

>> photo taken in February 1969 <<

... how do you know it was taken in february, or that that's when Rambler was recorded?
this is one of a series of photos that i've never seen any precise date for;
and the photographer himself doesn't remember. so the Department of Historical Accuracy is on the prowl.

meanwhile, although the photo doesn't prove anything, i think Rambler is the only number we know of
that Keith would have the capo in that position for - is that right? of course it might be some unknown number, but ...

>> but what is concert tuning <<
>> Concert tuning is spanish tuning aka traditional tuning <<

aka standard tuning (just to be sure we're being clear enough this time)

LOL

I dont know but on wikipedia someone says February 9-10, 1969 - i think it's rambler because of the photos of Brian baning an African drum and wearing earphones, same session.

>> on wikipedia someone says February 9-10, 1969 <<

not anymore. :E
the reference they cited just said "february/march", and there are other sources that say it was later than that
which makes more sense to me. anyway i'll try to figure out which shots of Brian you mean.

Here it is with sssoul;-)
Saw your editing on wikipedia



pics from rocks off



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-01-30 14:36 by LA FORUM.

And this one shows how Brian taught Keith the riff. "This is how you should play it Keith".

Can't understand how this thread has spun on and on.
MR is not and never was an open tuned song. End of.

We might just as well have thread asking if Keith played SMU in concert tuning

Great clips, quotes, popcorn and pictures make threads go on and on... keep 'm coming!

Jelle

thanks for the Brian-with-drums photo. in photos from the same session as the one of Keith i posted
Brian appears to be dressed quite differently, so i think yours is from another occasion.

since it's inaudible anyway i guess it doesn't matter, but isn't it congas Brian's credited for on MR?

Quote
Spud
Can't understand how this thread has spun on and on.
MR is not and never was an open tuned song. End of.

We might just as well have thread asking if Keith played SMU in concert tuning

We all know it in standard tuning but I was looking for more evidence for those who dont believe it's standard. with sssoul, Brian pics, ok, I didnt know, must be another day. Maybe they were recording it for a couple of days? I think it was percussion or African drum on MR (the inaudible). But when I listen to the song there seems to be a drum at the end on the uptempo, just after "don't do that.

>> Brian pics, ok, I didnt know, must be another day.
Maybe they were recording it for a couple of days <<

the shots i have that are clearly from these sessions seem to be from 2-3 days -
what i meant is that Brian appears to be dressed differently in all of them;
and for a few reasons i think they're from later than february.

but anyway thanks for clarifying - the Department of Historical Accuracy will continue prowling. :E



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2008-01-30 17:42 by with sssoul.

It's all standard blues in E, lifted to the key of B. There's full use of the low and high E string which you don't have in open G.

It's beyond me that anyone whose able to play an E, A and D chord on a guitar can think MR is in open G.

Mathijs