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Mathijs

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Doxa

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Mathijs
I am really sorry to note, but Taylor really comes accross on that January 2010 vid as a guitarist who hasn't played in a long, long time. Every guitar player knows this feeling when you pick up a guitar after a couple of months not playing. You know how to play it, but the execution is just comepletely lagging behind. It then takes some days to gain speed and accuracy and precision.

Unfortunately Taylor comes accros like this for the lost couple of years, and the fact that his set only comprises of the same lame songs over and over again since 1981 doesn't help either.

Mathijs

That could be due the reason said in some of these threads (by Lightnin' I think?) that Taylor doesn't play at all at home (off the road that is). He just picks up the guitar when there is teh next gig available. Seemingly for people like Taylor and Keith and I guess Ronnie as well who have spend all their adult life and most of teen days as well with the guitar in their hands might not be so excited anymore in "practising". In one sense of the word they already know anything they need to know, and just getting better in no a real option any longer, and just to play for solely trying to be in shape it is just boring... It has its negative effects but I guess it is somehow understable. The true motivation and spark comes from performing or some other "real" action. I think tehre is the difference in perspective towards playing between these first-generation guitar gods and all the rest of "us" who may spend 24/7 in practising.... I have wittnessed very "rusty" Taylor myself in a concert. But there istill is the true excellence there to be lurking, júst behind the surface... I think one of the intersting traits in Taylor's playing is the way he challanges himself - kicking the Great Guitarist with Signature Sound out of himself. And how they say, the difference between the professionals and the amateurs is that the amateurs need to rehearse...

- Doxa

Then he should stop performing. I mean, he is asking people money to see him perform, and you should take that seriously. No matter whether you play for 10 or 10000 people, when you ask money you should prepare and give your best.

Mathijs

Well, I paid 10 euros for seeing him practising in my local joint, and yes, there were about 50 Stones fans watching... But I need to say that it was one of the greatest concerts I have ever wittnessed. That was closest moment I ever been n experincing the only true Rolling Stones virtuoso in action. I think those 10 Euros is probably the best spent money ever in my life. I think anyone walked out happy, at least didn't find reasons to complain about the ticket price and what was given with it. It was the first concert Taylor played with Wentus Blues Band (there would many others along the years). I have talked with the members of Wentus, and they said that they practically didn't rehearse at all.

It is nice to think work with such protestant ethics as you do, but to be true I'd be happy to wittness great musicians rehearsing and practising on stage, seeing them in the middle of creative process: having the challenge of trial and error available all the time - it is exciting value of its own. Maybe it is because of that spontaneity, Taylor's playing tends to sound so fresh and interesting. He is like a jazz musician in this sense.

Do you hear Bob Dylan fans complaining because their maestro don't rehearse at all but leaves all the decisions of his delivery and interpretation to the very moment of her and now, in front of couple of thousand people? No, they just love it.

The point: talking about "rehearsing" and "being serious" is something for the kids to learn, but that school boy attitude does not apply to arts.

- Doxa



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-21 19:09 by Doxa.

Well said Doxa!

"I am really sorry to note, but Taylor really comes accross on that January 2010 vid as a guitarist who hasn't played in a long, long time. Every guitar player knows this feeling when you pick up a guitar after a couple of months not playing. You know how to play it, but the execution is just comepletely lagging behind. It then takes some days to gain speed and accuracy and precision.

Then he should stop performing. I mean, he is asking people money to see him perform, and you should take that seriously. No matter whether you play for 10 or 10000 people, when you ask money you should prepare and give your best
Then he should stop performing. I mean, he is asking people money to see him perform, and you should take that seriously. No matter whether you play for 10 or 10000 people, when you ask money you should prepare and give your best."

Mathijs






Taylors playing is about feeling and I here him playing with feeling.I don't think his way of playing is based on heavy technical skills,like Mc Laughlin. He can permit himself to sit and watch his guitar only. for some time...

The mistakes on the clip are human miskes,like hitting the wrong fret,but his timing is splendid..

When it comes to asking money and not giving the best, Keih and Ron are the leaders here.
Many of their performances are below zero in front of 300000 people,asking $$ for tickets.
Maybe they should have stopped performing a long time ago.

While a performer's not rehearsing or preparing for a show does seem obnoxious, I see and hear no reason to be offended or to request that he hang up his guitar.

The melodic inventiveness is very much there. Taylor's take on No Expectations is lovely musically. He found something new in or for the song. That's part of why I keep going back to his performances. While at times it is apparent he is "working through" a piece, I hear and feel a soufulness and musicality that goes beyond bare practice.

By the way, try www.nzentgraf.de for info on his setlists. He's not played the same songs since '81. (Maybe since 1998 though. Still a rewarding listen for me.)

I agree with Mathijs. If you're gonna charge money you gotta play properly and rehearse beforehand. I would have walked out and asked for my money back after the first song. Yes it is an art form but even the great masters would have practised and as for Dylan. I think he's a great songwriter but I don't want to go and see him mainly because of the nonchalant attitude towards the performance.

Oh and by the way rehearsal helps with spontaneity. If play you with each other long enough you can add bits in to make the performance less robotic. You only need to witness our favourite band to work that one out. Oh had it occurred to anyone why the Stones still rehearse.....so they go out on the road knowing the songs and how to play them. Witness Rambler at Saitama as a good example.

I can't excuse Taylors shonky playing but then he's a demigod to some people here. He only needs to fart and people bow down.

NickB

You can't always get what you want.....

www.myspace.com/thesonkings

Mostly answering Doxa's arguments:
That's why Dylan hires the best musicians available which results in well performed songs - only terribly sung by a terrible keyboard player. The same goes for Eric Clapton (I'm afraid) who tries to distract the audience with Derek Trucks and Stevie Winwood.
Taylor isn't like a jazz musician in that sense (probably was but isn't anymore) - and he is no rock'n'roller either to say the same as the jazz musician: the next song is in A-major and then they deliver.
The similarities between Mick T and Mick & Keith are not that theiy lost their skills but they turned into a one way street by only relying on songs they think they don't need to practise: Like Jumpin Jack Flash and Tumbling Dice or No Expectations and Blind Willie McTell.

JJHMick

I completely disagree in respect of Clapton. He still has his chops and is still a great guitar player.

But I agree with the remainder of what you say to some extent. Although the Stones do occaisionally throw some stuff into a set such as Bob Wills at Austin and the Buddy Holly number.

NickB

You can't always get what you want.....

www.myspace.com/thesonkings

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NickB
JJHMick

I completely disagree in respect of Clapton. He still has his chops and is still a great guitar player.

But I agree with the remainder of what you say to some extent. Although the Stones do occaisionally throw some stuff into a set such as Bob Wills at Austin and the Buddy Holly number.

I've seen Dylan and Clapton for the first time (both) about two years ago. I had high expectations and was disappointed (I even managed to find a Dylan bootleg of that concert that confirms my impression). Ad Clapton: He didn't do much, so to say (like Frank Zappa when I saw him), left it all to his excellent band. But you sometimes get the notion that those hired hands are playing perfect but not with the necessary enthusiasm if you play your "own" songs.

He hit a few bum notes, but other than that, it was great to hear him back in form..Sometimes a few mistakes improve the song,not in this case, but It was great just to hear him feel it and flow like a true artist.....

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Doxa

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Mathijs

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Doxa

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Mathijs
I am really sorry to note, but Taylor really comes accross on that January 2010 vid as a guitarist who hasn't played in a long, long time. Every guitar player knows this feeling when you pick up a guitar after a couple of months not playing. You know how to play it, but the execution is just comepletely lagging behind. It then takes some days to gain speed and accuracy and precision.

Unfortunately Taylor comes accros like this for the lost couple of years, and the fact that his set only comprises of the same lame songs over and over again since 1981 doesn't help either.

Mathijs

That could be due the reason said in some of these threads (by Lightnin' I think?) that Taylor doesn't play at all at home (off the road that is). He just picks up the guitar when there is teh next gig available. Seemingly for people like Taylor and Keith and I guess Ronnie as well who have spend all their adult life and most of teen days as well with the guitar in their hands might not be so excited anymore in "practising". In one sense of the word they already know anything they need to know, and just getting better in no a real option any longer, and just to play for solely trying to be in shape it is just boring... It has its negative effects but I guess it is somehow understable. The true motivation and spark comes from performing or some other "real" action. I think tehre is the difference in perspective towards playing between these first-generation guitar gods and all the rest of "us" who may spend 24/7 in practising.... I have wittnessed very "rusty" Taylor myself in a concert. But there istill is the true excellence there to be lurking, júst behind the surface... I think one of the intersting traits in Taylor's playing is the way he challanges himself - kicking the Great Guitarist with Signature Sound out of himself. And how they say, the difference between the professionals and the amateurs is that the amateurs need to rehearse...

- Doxa

Then he should stop performing. I mean, he is asking people money to see him perform, and you should take that seriously. No matter whether you play for 10 or 10000 people, when you ask money you should prepare and give your best.

Mathijs

Well, I paid 10 euros for seeing him practising in my local joint, and yes, there were about 50 Stones fans watching... But I need to say that it was one of the greatest concerts I have ever wittnessed. That was closest moment I ever been n experincing the only true Rolling Stones virtuoso in action. I think those 10 Euros is probably the best spent money ever in my life. I think anyone walked out happy, at least didn't find reasons to complain about the ticket price and what was given with it. It was the first concert Taylor played with Wentus Blues Band (there would many others along the years). I have talked with the members of Wentus, and they said that they practically didn't rehearse at all.

It is nice to think work with such protestant ethics as you do, but to be true I'd be happy to wittness great musicians rehearsing and practising on stage, seeing them in the middle of creative process: having the challenge of trial and error available all the time - it is exciting value of its own. Maybe it is because of that spontaneity, Taylor's playing tends to sound so fresh and interesting. He is like a jazz musician in this sense.

Do you hear Bob Dylan fans complaining because their maestro don't rehearse at all but leaves all the decisions of his delivery and interpretation to the very moment of her and now, in front of couple of thousand people? No, they just love it.

The point: talking about "rehearsing" and "being serious" is something for the kids to learn, but that school boy attitude does not apply to arts.

- Doxa

You are fully entitled to a fantastic experience of seeing Taylor upclose. But unfortunately that's all that's Taylor's worth these days -to perform for 50 Stones fans, and two of them actually getting emotional about it: you because you recognize his brilliance, and me because I recognize the loss of this great talent.

Mathijs

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Mathijs

You are fully entitled to a fantastic experience of seeing Taylor upclose. But unfortunately that's all that's Taylor's worth these days -to perform for 50 Stones fans, and two of them actually getting emotional about it: you because you recognize his brilliance, and me because I recognize the loss of this great talent.

Mathijs

Well, part of me did reflect - while wittnessing the brilliance - why on earth this guy - who once was a shining part of the greatest rock band ever on earth and one of the most admired guitarists in the world- is playing here, with these people (with all respect to Wentus) and for this money and for these people (the place, just a restaurant really, was about one third full). No, it is not that the whole world gone wrong, bad luck, injustice, etc. It does had something to do with his own actions, and non-actions. That's sad. But so human.

- Doxa

i'm seeing him play here in annapolis. I have front row- if he distracts me from my beer i'll be amazed.

OLDKR

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NickB
I agree with Mathijs. If you're gonna charge money you gotta play properly and rehearse beforehand. I would have walked out and asked for my money back after the first song. Yes it is an art form but even the great masters would have practised and as for Dylan. I think he's a great songwriter but I don't want to go and see him mainly because of the nonchalant attitude towards the performance.

Oh and by the way rehearsal helps with spontaneity. If play you with each other long enough you can add bits in to make the performance less robotic. You only need to witness our favourite band to work that one out. Oh had it occurred to anyone why the Stones still rehearse.....so they go out on the road knowing the songs and how to play them. Witness Rambler at Saitama as a good example.

I can't excuse Taylors shonky playing but then he's a demigod to some people here. He only needs to fart and people bow down.

I take it you'd ask for your money back after a Rolling Stones concert as well ??

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Eleanor Rigby

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NickB
I agree with Mathijs. If you're gonna charge money you gotta play properly and rehearse beforehand. I would have walked out and asked for my money back after the first song. Yes it is an art form but even the great masters would have practised and as for Dylan. I think he's a great songwriter but I don't want to go and see him mainly because of the nonchalant attitude towards the performance.

Oh and by the way rehearsal helps with spontaneity. If play you with each other long enough you can add bits in to make the performance less robotic. You only need to witness our favourite band to work that one out. Oh had it occurred to anyone why the Stones still rehearse.....so they go out on the road knowing the songs and how to play them. Witness Rambler at Saitama as a good example.

I can't excuse Taylors shonky playing but then he's a demigod to some people here. He only needs to fart and people bow down.

I take it you'd ask for your money back after a Rolling Stones concert as well ??

I guess not, because Taylor is only "a demigod to some people here" while Jagger and Richards are real gods and you don't ask your money back from a real god, certainly not from two gods, however badly they've performed. No, in that case you say 1000 times "thank you, gods". Because it's allowed to a god to perform any way he chooses, but a demigod has to play by the rules and to rehearse at least eight hours a day.

When you listen to those pieces up here, you can hear some true music, all the mistakes included. It's up to a certain Stones-professor or Stones-scholar to denounce that music, because the order is as follows: first the gods (the Glimmers), then the Stones-scholars and somewhere beneath the stairs the so called demigod who gives those with ears and feeling a musically thrilling experience. But thát's not important of course. Because those listeners are out of any order. They are only Believers and have to be ignored.

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kleermaker

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Eleanor Rigby

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NickB
I agree with Mathijs. If you're gonna charge money you gotta play properly and rehearse beforehand. I would have walked out and asked for my money back after the first song. Yes it is an art form but even the great masters would have practised and as for Dylan. I think he's a great songwriter but I don't want to go and see him mainly because of the nonchalant attitude towards the performance.

Oh and by the way rehearsal helps with spontaneity. If play you with each other long enough you can add bits in to make the performance less robotic. You only need to witness our favourite band to work that one out. Oh had it occurred to anyone why the Stones still rehearse.....so they go out on the road knowing the songs and how to play them. Witness Rambler at Saitama as a good example.

I can't excuse Taylors shonky playing but then he's a demigod to some people here. He only needs to fart and people bow down.

I take it you'd ask for your money back after a Rolling Stones concert as well ??

I guess not, because Taylor is only "a demigod to some people here" while Jagger and Richards are real gods and you don't ask your money back from a real god, certainly not from two gods, however badly they've performed. No, in that case you say 1000 times "thank you, gods". Because it's allowed to a god to perform any way he chooses, but a demigod has to play by the rules and to rehearse at least eight hours a day.

When you listen to those pieces up here, you can hear some true music, all the mistakes included. It's up to a certain Stones-professor or Stones-scholar to denounce that music, because the order is as follows: first the gods (the Glimmers), then the Stones-scholars and somewhere beneath the stairs the so called demigod who gives those with ears and feeling a musically thrilling experience. But thát's not important of course. Because those listeners are out of any order. They are only Believers and have to be ignored.

What? Listen I've never been to a Stones gig and been dissatisfied with the playing apart from the squall of noise emanating from Ronnie when he plays the solo in Start Me Up or his useless solo in Tumbling Dice. But while we're on the subject of Gods. I was only pointing out that some people think that Mick T is a demigod or even a God in their attitude when posting on this board. In fact none of the Stones are Gods. Just mere mortals like us.

NickB

You can't always get what you want.....

www.myspace.com/thesonkings



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2010-02-25 16:04 by NickB.

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oldkr
i'm seeing him play here in annapolis. I have front row- if he distracts me from my beer i'll be amazed.

OLDKR

I wouldn't take the risk of being distracted from my beer if I were you. I recommend another bar, one with only a radio or tv.

Mick Taylor plays better guitar as Keith Richards & Ron Wood together.

not in that video he doesnt